Automatically transcribed, so expect the odd wrong name or word.
And welcome back to the Virtus Performance podcast again season 4 back in full swing Obviously a little bit longer of an episode if you listen to episode 1 of season 4 where we spoke to Nick Jacob it's About I'm sure I've just butchered his name too, but he'll kill me for that letter About him his life him being a sports scientist and a for umpire for W also Some nutritional strategies for endurance performance, which we might even get into today actually Without further ado again my favorite segue into our guest today We have Tess Rollie
and Tess very similar to Jasmine is under here under duress We will get a heart rate check in a minute because I reckon it's peaking but Tess is a sports scientist by trade Deakin graduate fellow there's a lot of us on here now. I think there's a trend happening She works out of the IS. She's current PhD student working with concussion and ACLs in a 4w We can warrior verse Virtus client confidant part of the furniture now lucky test, but welcome test What's your heart rate? It's definitely For reference, what's resting? 42 so we doubled that's it.
Yeah, we'll get we'll get it comfy by like 15 minutes in my favorite question Ask everyone my first question. Who is Tess? It's a big question I know I'm Well, yeah, I guess technically in in the terms of who am I as a profession? Yeah, I'm a sport scientist PhD student But I guess Tess is a person I'm still very much figuring it out, which is kind of the whole fun part of life but yeah, I guess I'm just a Person that loves being fit and healthy being around friends learning Yeah, just trying to make
the most of every opportunity kind of thing a very common occurrence when I sit in this side of the Table is this is way smarter than me and that's why she's here I'm smarter in like one area. Yeah We're gonna get into that a little bit on book smart versus laughs the trees. Oh, I'm a lost cause no No, it's a lost cause just a flying bird I'm an innocent soul. Yeah. Yeah. He's right. You're right How long you been at bonus now tests? I was actually thinking about this before and I couldn't remember because
it feels like it's been forever It actually hasn't been a year gonna be your first complement But I actually think that's a reflection on you and we'll talk about may too because you know to two peas in a pod Oh, yeah, she also kill us if we don't mention her at least ten times today. She's probably already like yeah exactly Yeah, he's at the pot. Yeah, Peter finish now. It's only what was it like Oh, yes Yeah, I reckon it was like I was a bit earlier than that. Maybe like July. Yeah, it feels like forever What's what has been your most enjoyable thing about staying at birth or being a bit?
I think it's just the complete shift in mentality for me around like how I approach my fitness and exercise Before it was very like I'm doing this for to just purely be like fit like that's all I wanted to do and Now like coming in here. I've got Like you guys that have all this expertise and knowledge around How I can not only move really well in the gym and how to progress there But then you can be really specifically targeted towards goals that I wanted to achieve And that's probably what I've loved so much about coming here.
It's like yeah, I'm here to work and I'm here to work for a specific goal And then I think I'll probably also have to like mention the community that we've got here at vertice like yes I've got my sister but I've met so many incredible people just from rocking up and having a chat and Not being afraid to like say hi or have a conversation. So I'm the community aspect is incredible here and That's probably why I've stuck around Selfishly why do you train? Selfishly it's because Mentally, I know it helps me so much like
a lot of my job is very stressful in terms of I'll have constant communication from athletes or from coaches like wanting advice and then I'm also in that mindset with My PhD like I'm constantly reading and absorbing information and all that kind of thing. So coming in here I'm just able to completely switch off from all that and I don't think about it unless someone asked me about it Like I don't think about it like in a podcast. Yeah, like in this exact situation Yeah, I just get to kind of like switch off and just be tests for an hour and 15 Yes, sometimes longer depends on who's here.
Yeah depends on who's in the What so obviously we're back at work now or you're back at work now. What what does a what's a normal week look like? What's what's Tess's world look like? I Cannot predict my week at VIS It'll range from like and Especially in the job that I mean now like I'm not just rowing sports scientist I'm a sports scientist and physiologist across a whole range of different sports now, so it can be I'm presenting a presentation on sleep hygiene and jet lag travel for arches who are going over to Europe
or it can be running a Wrestling metabolic rate test for all of our like combat sports to ensure that they're making weight safely So then like being down at the river and doing GPS monitoring and race reports or doing a whole day of lab testing like your favorite Just smashing you out. So Yeah, I can't really predict VIS which in a weird way I kind of love it like keeps it really interesting In terms of PhD at the moment, it's kind of a little bit slow Cuz I'm trying to we're in that data collection phase
where there's whole like participant recruitment So it's really just like working with clubs getting them on board and then we'll get them in and try and get some data What's the what's the most I know why you do both, but what's the thing you enjoy about each of them the most? You mentioned kind of VAS being like the non monotonous Variability. Yeah, is that like the thing you enjoy the most? Definitely an aspect I would say In a weird way VAS is constantly challenging me because it's different things every single day. It's like Okay, I
may not know everything that I need to know in this situation, but I'm gonna go away and learn it and I think that Constantly like putting myself in that uncomfortable situation is Where I get to learn like 10 times faster than what I would if I'm just like sitting at my computer and reading something Well, you're always like that. I'd have to learn that skill being out of the eyes I'm 100% had to learn it When I first so I did my traineeship there in 2020 and the first thing shout out to Rod Segal. Um,
the first thing yeah The first so he was initially my supervisor there and the first thing he did was sit me down and he just like showed me this little I know like name kind of thing and it's like a big circle of your comfort zone and then a little circle showing you outside your comfort zone and he just pointed out and he was like this is where the cool stuff happens and he's like be okay to sit in this zone and Then when I came back to the role in Like 2021 22. I was
like lead sports scientist so I was like, okay training wheels off like jump in the deep end like let's go and Initially, I was so overwhelmed with it all and I was like, oh my god I'm actually like a sports scientist now, and I've actually got it. Got a real deal. Yeah I'm a big girl now kind of thing. Um, and so Initially, I kind of put this pressure on myself that I was expected to know absolutely everything and then in hindsight, it was like no, I wasn't expected to know absolutely everything like I'm out
of my comfort zone, but the way that I worked through that was Showing that I was keen to learn and not trying to fool anyone by saying like oh, yeah I know what I'm doing If I didn't know something like having the ability to say hey, like I need some help or I've got a question Can you help me figure it out? like I Learned so much by taking that pressure of myself for being like you need to know everything. Yeah So that was a huge learning curve for me what Was the biggest challenge? I'm just trying to imagine like me being the same situation It's like the biggest challenge like getting in your own way.
Yeah. Yeah, and it's like huge imposter syndrome Yeah, like it was rod who's in credit like smartest man. I know pretty much I haven't met rod, but I feel like rod be a nice guy to have coffee with just saying Hayes. Yeah, he's a legend I say good thing. So well, he loves basketball as well. So I mean Apparently, that's how I got the gig Yeah, I liked basketball play basketball and then I had a wrong background as well so he's like, yeah Let's get her in and you're really good at what you did golden child from all the courts.
Yeah Yeah, I did have a look back at like the trainee like acceptance and was like has good grades and I was like, yeah Yeah, like yeah imposter syndrome like it was rod and then it was Anna who was my supervisor for a while I was training there and they're just to like incredibly smart people and not just in terms of Know their stuff but then they know how to apply it with coaches and athletes in a really effective way So, yeah, I would say It was me doubting myself me putting pressure on myself to
Think that I had to know absolutely everything and have an answer to every single question That kind of hindered me in the first probably couple of months of being in that role But then once I kind of settled into it and was like now it's okay to be like hey I don't know the answer to that question But give me half an hour to go and have a read and ask some people some valuable questions and I'll get back to you Yeah is what as leaders like what do you would you say the two or
a few doesn't have to be two like what are some like defining traits that they have that you either really enjoy or learn a lot from or you've Noticed the difference which is why they're so good at what they do I Would say huge part is being humble Being humble in the sense of like, you know what you do and you know what you do well, but then that eagerness to ask people like hey, how can I get better and Not having I don't know a big head around it in a sense. Um and Then yeah, I just think like work ethic is such a huge thing in leaders.
Like I Respond ten times better to a leader that shows me how they're going to go about doing their thing Then someone that just tells me how to do it So you're being humble and work ethic, I think What are some of the things that obviously you being someone that people look up to now? Even though you probably don't like it. You have a job that other people want put it that way That's what I define something that people look up towards like you have a job that people who are going through you now want Yeah, what are some of the things that you're gonna take from them and try and apply it to your?
offspring Trainees trainees. Yeah, I would say I'm elated you want to be I guess it's kind of what I said Well, I guess like I'll take it from the perspective of so we've just had some trainees starting it But yes, and it's like I highly encourage all of them to ask questions like Show an eagerness and a willingness to want to learn and that all like taking miles in the industry Like constantly questioning yeah, but why do we do it that way I think is such a powerful Approach in the industry because it's yeah, we
know our stuff now but there are people that are doing research at the moment that's going to shift everything that we look at so like being ready to challenge ideas and Go and like seek other perspectives on things Well 100% like separate you from anyone else because you can know like all the info like not that you should but like you can know like really really specific types about what you're doing in the job, but like you want to show that eagerness to Push it forward or think of a new way of doing something that no one's ever done before because in a late sport It does come down to that 1% like let's make that 1% change.
Yeah. Yeah, what's where's your passion come from for? Working in this industry of sport science or the wing of sports science. What makes it so appealing? Um It's probably a combination of things as a kid. I was very sporty and then When I kind of got into year 11 and 12 It was I kind of like science and I liked PE as my VCE subject So I was like, okay this kind of makes sense. Nothing else is really interesting me. So keep following this path and then kind of now where I'm at, especially in the
VAS it's like It's working with people like Rod and Ana, Vish and Locke like They're incredibly smart humans that if I just have a 10 20-minute conversation with them. I'm learning something and Being in that elite industry it is you're kind of you're always looking for that edge like okay How can I make my athlete make the team like we've been doing the same thing for? Two three years like how can I switch this up to to kind of push him over the edge into getting into that team? so I guess it is kind of
that ability to think outside the box that constantly challenges you and then you're constantly learning and so you're Constantly progressing and growing as a human, I guess. Yeah Tell us about little tests. What was little test like? Littler test? Littler test was like a nervous social anxiety wreck Like Ryan from Milk Bar and Co, you know Ryan. Shout out to Ryan. We're gonna have a bell Yeah, um He can attest to this that I could not string a sentence together. Why don't you meet Ryan? How old I was like, I reckon I was like 14 that's horrifying some of the shit that comes out of Ryan's mouth.
That is horrifying Oh, yeah, it was mentally scarring. I'm the other pretzel head that works there too. We'll get into him in a minute Honestly though like It's weird. I was thinking about it the other day. I 100% would not be the person that I am today if I had not worked at Milk Bar Like even your two dads. Yeah, like they're legit family. It's so weird. But anyway Nothing wrong with that Yeah, I was like I was so socially awkward like may can also attest to this I would not Like I would not call up to place a fish-and-chip order.
I couldn't do it still have my calls. Yeah But yeah, like working at Milk Bar I went from like this nervous socially awkward dishy to like manager of the cafe for like two years and Being able to have like easy conversation with it with anyone who walks through the door and Then even like in what I'm doing in my profession now like those social skills are so like you depend on them It's half the job. Yeah, yeah is Have you reflected on little tests and that side of things? Yeah, what's what was your barrier? What was your block?
um, I Mean I had a lot of thing. I had a couple of things going on when I was kid. Yeah, um, and I know that in order to like deal with a couple of them I like threw myself into being that like nerd kind of thing. So Yeah, I would literally like go home and study and that was like we you know Really weird and nerdy way like that was my safe space. There's nothing with that. I love learning. I feel you yeah, I just Yeah, that's kind of how I dealt with a few
things And then yeah, that's I kind of broke out of that Kind of moving to turak Kind of where'd you go before I was at Mount mouth primary. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got told to like Get my eyes checked which we know is a little One of those things we're gonna get into it. Yeah, if anyone's an optometrist My name is Tess and I am glad she can't see the TV from five years away. Yeah, it's cooked Sometimes reading the programs Is what was your favorite part about high school, um Friends
and then finding my rhythm in a in a intellectual way, yeah, um I was Like I was the dumb kid at school Like as it like as I said when I was at Mount mouth primary I was like told to go get my eyes checked because I was not learning Then I moved to track in year five and Like yeah, I was in like I had to go and do additional work to to essentially catch up and I don't think it was until like in nine or ten when I actually started to Click with what
I was doing Then yeah that kind of like saw me through And then in terms of friends like I had a I was really lucky to find my feet in a really good group of girls that were just like Super supportive and fun and yeah, like just love them. Yes I can relate to that like dumb kid to an extent to cuz I I was thinking about this before we had this conversation I think I was very similar. Like I actually didn't really think I found my brain into like you 10 Yeah, but I think that was more like an effort thing.
Like I was I was always a sporty kid Like yeah, I got I'm a little bit more coordinated than you So like I think my safe space was like sport and PE like Son off every sport go Adams like I think my escape was going out on sport Yeah, cuz it's like that thing that you know that you could add Yeah, I'm saying and I think like even through like VC like I missed that shit ton of days because of sport But I still somehow found a way to like work it out. Yeah, and Lots
of my students friends don't love me for this, but I can kind of just like work it out I don't know if it's that's like an adaptive thing from like a neurological spectrum But like my brain just like change when I was like you 10. Yeah, because I I don't Enjoy book reading to an extent because I struggle one to read the paper Yeah, my brain works backwards as well so that I know so that that I think that really threw me off But I don't know. I think I just worked out a way to just like work it out I don't know how to explain it and I don't think I'll ever will know how to explain.
Yeah, I don't know either I Enjoy learning and getting smarter, but at the same point I don't it's kind of weird Like I don't enjoy like through traditional learning. Yeah, see like I That's why it was so strange at Mount Martha because I was like an avid reader. Like I'm a huge read. I love it Yeah, like I can read and I can like I love it but it just wasn't translating into What school was looking for and then I think it might even just be like when you get into your 10 11 12 like
things become a bit more practical like you can see How you might be applying stuff like no, I've never used pythag or whatever But I can see the skills that I learned back in school in terms of studying That have like held me in good stead for what I'm doing now. Yeah, I think mine comes from like a Like processes and systems. I think I just work out the path cuz I've read a book since grade five Like I'm not actually kidding. It would have been one of those It's like those horrible discoveries books the
kids ones that are like about history because I really enjoy history Yeah, some reason I know that's an important detail But anyway, I have I didn't read any my year 12 books and I got like a 38 or 39 English So like I think I just worked out the process of like what you want me to do and that relates to that So let's just join them together. Like I don't yeah, I don't know even now like it's the thing that This is not my safe space. Yes, lucky kids buy me books as presents and
I just keep putting Which he hates for he writes little notes though, so I'll keep them for notes But yeah, I can read research and stuff for that and I think that's obviously because I'm just interested in it Like I want an outcome from it. I also think that do you just read the abstract though? No, no, no No, actually like reading like the method part like that. Yeah So I think I'm I don't know what it is and someone smarter than me can tell me this But like I think my brain is just systems and process driven now.
Oh 100% and it's like find your groove Yeah, I'm sound I just like pick things out of it and I can't explain it and especially like running an internship program here Everyone's like, oh, how do you do this and that and like oh, I had you come out Yep, pretty much just kind of like picked it out, you know There's like movies where there's like a bubble above you and it's kind of like joining the dots and then there's like all the mats Everywhere that's how kind of my brain works. Yes Like the monkey like a solid half hour and I'm just like, huh?
Yeah, I can see that I can see that we can tell anyone we knew a photo careful What would you change about Education high school was For someone who's very smart now. Yeah You are very smart. Thank you. Don't let me stroke the ego even more You are very smart and you have done lots of studying and lots of Educating of yourself and others. What would you change about? Just the system I guess I've had this conversation a little bit with them with Luke Luke fish. Shout out and I would say Like it's very like
I don't know how it is to be a teacher as well, but Kind of picking up on how people learn best and how you can best connect with people like I'm not going to take someone who's going to absorb information ten times faster by reading a book and make them sit through an hour-long presentation or if someone's Gonna learn better from just sitting down with me and having a conversation around like Aerobic systems or whatever it is. Like I'm gonna do that. I don't know. It's just like I'm very much a visual what I guess
yeah, like a bit more flexible in how you approach kids Especially if you notice that like they're struggling to grasp an idea Like rather than just trying to keep pounding them in the same way like be adaptable and think okay This kid isn't learning what I need them to learn like let's shift it a bit Yeah, I guess I have a very similar like Outlook on that stuff is it's like similar to working in like obviously you haven't worked. Have you in team sport in one case what? Starting to starting to yeah. So like with
like teen sport like All never one size fits all so you have to do different things with different people Yeah I think that's kind of the same process that I take to education is like just because this works for this person that means you need to find a different way to do that and you've sent and From working in team sport that can be a challenge at times Yeah but it's just more energy and effort which I think no one wants to do because that cost money and the education system so big and Traditional. Yeah
fumble fumble fumble We like we had that exact case a couple years ago with one of our rowers and he was coming back from hip surgery and You know weird way it provided us the perfect opportunity to switch things up with him because Rowing traditionally is like let's just get a whole ton of volume in like let's do Long low intensity like endurance based training and then we might sprinkle in some higher intensity stuff for like race prep and everything But like this one athlete he'd done the same thing for like years and years and
years and it's like he's not making Olympic teams like he's not breaking through that one last step to get in the boat and so this is kind of like his Last kind of crack at it in a sense. And so we completely switch the game from doing like that low-intensity Kind of stuff to like okay Let's do some like shock hit cycles like let's throw him in the heat chamber and get him to do some very to max sessions like yeah, it was Disgusting and he can attest the amount of sweat that I had to mop up at the end of each session Texas what science but um Glitz and glamour.
Sorry everyone But yeah, he ended up like making the Australian team in the boat performed really well and He was like, yeah, I just had to be different like I'm not I'm not like saying that what we're doing in rowing is wrong or anything, but there becomes a point where it's like Let's actually understand the athlete that we're working with and how they respond to a stimulus and let's train them for that. Like let's Set them up for success in a sense like take that additional extra step to Understand the person that you're working with on that note before you go jump down something else What's what do you like metrics or what are you looking at for that stuff?
Like to make something specific? What do you need to know? You can know that a little bit here I'll go nerdy ish. I won't go nerd nerd but essentially In terms of I'll stay in my rowing wheel house because that's where I've kind of spent the most time We want to get an understanding of an athletes physiological Capabilities or they're sort of I can't I don't know the word that I'm looking for did not dumb it down But like their makeup as an athlete So are they aerobically? Gifted do they have a huge aerobic capacity or and what's their anaerobic capacity?
Like so are we dealing with someone that does have that huge aerobic capacity? but they're limited in that anaerobic capacity and therefore should we be training more in that anaerobic capacity to therefore like yank their whole Physiology up and essentially get those performance benefits or are we dealing with someone that? hasn't done that huge load and we're needing to work more in that aerobic space and improve vo2 max and like all those sort of things down in the aerobic and so That's what I kind of look for when I'm understanding an athlete like what sort
of composition that was a little I was looking for Nailed it you found it It's gone from the monkeys to them Yes, like Understanding the makeup of an athlete and then how am I going to train that? So this is when I kind of nerd out and step into my Uncomfortable space and so then I start reading a whole bunch of Different literature that's out there and how I can train for specific adaptations also considering what my athlete might enjoy doing more so than Like in like they might enjoy being on the bike more than
they enjoy being on the ERG or is my athlete Do they have like a disability that I have to be adaptable to so that's when I kind of go down that rabbit hole of Research and find what's applicable and what I can play with and what I can use Then we do like baseline testing I do my intervention and then I do post-testing so was my intervention Practically practically, um If we're going very generic, it could be as simple as like in rowing we do a seven by four minute step test So we could implement that One of the programs I have max like to max.
Yeah Seventh step is max. Yeah, so it's kind of like a rant I'm personally selfishly curious. Yeah, cuz I'm worthy rolls. Yeah, it's cool. Fucking eight rolls You've seen the size of these limbs. Hey, you should see us in that final max step for growing There's like myself and Noel Donaldson who's awesome for some he's like Legend, there's like Donna just like yelling at his guts and I'm there like go team Yeah We'll go but it's such like that was a cool experience when I was a trainee I was like sitting there and I was like This is different.
Yeah There's like a Program that I've just done for one of our athletes. Um Like she'll be doing a whole bucket heap of bike work So we're gonna be looking at like critical power and W prime and so we're gonna do like a four minute max effort on the bike Pre and post that intervention done a few of those Brutal nasty like first three minutes you okay, but that last minute you're just like cooked Yes, like the last 45. Yeah for anyone listening if you haven't go and done one of them go do one. Yeah, go do it Oh, it's fun.
Do this session is also like Disgustingly brutal is 12 by 30 seconds on four minutes rest. Yeah, and that four minute rest is passive I don't have one of them at uni. Oh, maybe I don't know I did it like a little while ago and it was cooked like I'm it. I'm a hundred percent aerobic Yeah, so I was just like see I like that shit because I'm not I'm the other way. Yeah Yeah, and it's way more enjoyable. Yeah, it's brutal. You'll just see your what's just carry from like here to here plummet It's exceptionally humbling Makes a makes a human out of you put it that way Can we get a heart rate check?
I think we're like 27 minutes in maybe 28. I'm so cold just FYI I can do it turn down. Oh I've been shivering surprise. I That's a fun fact about me I get hella cold real quick. Yeah, just 78 we're getting there. Yeah, you're making my brain work. Yeah, that's the whole point of this shit Do whatever the hell we want. All right, let's make the brain work less. What's a hobby look like Tess. What do you like to do? Oh God, I love rating. That's probably my strongest hobbies for leisure or fire come leisure or mixture I delve into the fiction and the nonfiction pretty equally.
What are you got? Okay, you don't have to have three I people hate when I've got some feedback on this people say stop saying top three or top Five so top whatever you want top. Whatever. Um, I'm kind of like riding wave. I think you're aware of this as well Matthew McConaughey, yeah green lights That was just so good. You give us your best Matthew McConaughey It's not bad it's not bad Have you listen to the car map with him No, go find it. I feel like pleasuring to the ear holes I don't know even
like lucky was saying that I'm even just like the audiobook of green lights is insane So I might just read it again You're like one of the intros is like so hello there and he goes into like good evening You need like some Matthew McConaughey on this. Yeah, like you sort it out. We need to Matthew McConaughey and less of green light Whatever else is on here Yeah, that's that's old news yeah, yeah, yeah green light yep green lights love it also his podcast With Jay Charmin is really good. I think I've got that name, right?
I sent it on to Steph Steph that's why no help Probably downstairs actually. Yeah, she was like four o'clock. Um, yeah, I loved green lights I really liked Johanna Hari, I don't know how to pronounce his last name wrong, but um, he was on a podcast With the imperfects and then when I read his book lost connections, and then he's just done a new recent one I think it's like stolen focus or something. Yeah, I can't say listen that podcast but that might have been prior to my imperfects listening. Yeah, it's like insanely good and
So I guess that's kind of like self-growth area Which I kind of just like to take little nuggets from that kind of do you write in your book? Curiously not in the book, but I've got like a journal that I'll then like go and write it in. Yeah Yeah, you were a bookkeeper hundred percent. Yeah, although Yeah, I need something like this cuz my oh green lights It's right there So it is yeah, sorry, um, he's looking over us. Yeah Did you meet hey did you meet Simon in these Matthew McConaughey face Oh, I kept telling everybody look like Matthew McConaughey cuz he had like the long flowing hair.
Oh, it's bad I was I thought you meant like his face and like was always watching his Went into MV hair shout-out sponsor of vertice somehow probably with a photo of Matthew McConaughey and said give me that He didn't actually but we just tell everyone Kid right now, we don't know congratulations Simon. Yeah by the time this comes out hundred percent I hope so cuz I'm coming up for a few weeks more self But we do I do have naming rights if it's in two days, though. I'll be good father. Yeah, I'm good father 21 Yeah, 26 26 on the 21.
Yeah Yeah, we're getting old Yeah, we are roll. You still look young though. Look at me. I got a checked on the weekend You can actually check all the time. Oh, yeah, you said I had to wear a wristband Like literally 18. Yeah, that's that's a bit stiff. I Couldn't even tell you last time I got ID. I didn't really get ID when I was 18 either. I didn't have a beard sir Everywhere I go I get ID. I got ID at a petrol station What she was just like, I don't believe that you can drive Brutal she was just like you look too young to be driving and off your pace.
I was like Hostile Stephanie speaking of the devil. We're just talking about you Stiff we got our heart rate down. We're good We were good. Yeah, we're good. We talked about Matthew McConaughey normally calls the soul. Oh, yeah, is it Jay Sharma? What was the podcast? She said Shady Shady? Yeah, so I don't know but you know, he can't Yeah, as we always talk about how young Tess looks and how she never gets I did Always yeah, but how I never get I need the hell is she always gets I do Yeah, we can't hear
you I just look like a baby that's all I know What else you like to do tests if breeding was one Hobbies beach beach love going in beach What's a what's a bitch they look like? I'm very curious by people's like beach Etiquette, I'll call it. I like Okay, so I run us through a beach day. Okay, so I wake up in the morning podcasting We talk about whatever the hell we want. I wake up in the morning. I I don't know do whatever I want to do in the morning like I get a child
go run feel good that kind of thing then I will I've gotten into this thing where I'll actually pack like a lunch to have down at the beach like it's love that Huge advocate like full little like my little lunchbox. I can be a little esky you're gonna aunty picnic books. Yeah It's hella cute. I've had a lot of compliments It's horrifying that we're the same age Just side note sidebar. Yeah Yeah, we're the same age surprise. I'm literally the child in the group though Yeah, you are it's like put a leash, you know, there's
like huggy bear like backpacks and the leash Yeah Anyway Yeah, and then I'll always have my book always have like headphones listen to music But I don't really listen to music all that much down there anymore. So just read my book Chill out go for a swim Stay there for like four five hours and then Yeah, that's my beach day. That's interesting. I just like to hear people's process, you know It's not no, but some people are so like I come here who was talking to this week last week in the gym about it It's
like they have a go in the water and then they're out and they do this and then I was like This is way too much thought for me. I'm down there for like ten minutes that they're my ass out of there before I get burned You get bent playing golf struggle I club What else what other hobbies you got um, I'm not trying to lead you anywhere by the way, I'm just Giving you brain arrest before we die Other hobbies, I mean I had loved basketball. I love watching sport. I Randomly got in during lockdown
got into ice hockey Stefano is this yes I like and it's probably based off when May and I went we like traveled from America and we went to Chicago and watched Black Hawks game and I was just like What is this the most entertaining game of America's what to watch hundred percent fish? We need that too and people like they just they go off chops like When anyone scores and I'm like, yeah, this is what I'm about. And I don't know I see you have this I think it's cuz there's like Pyrex class between you and the fuck feel.
Yeah, you just like Pretend you're in your own room. It's going bananas. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. So love sport weirdly NFL cheeseheads Yeah, I'm on the Cincinnati bandwagon for playoffs, so hopefully they get it done this year and then Love my calves as bad. We're gonna I've been there since love Love Except the one time when I'm traveling through America go to Cleveland. He's not bloody playing. Yeah, he's getting old now That's why he's not he was in like best like sixth man or something. He's still old He can still shoot He dunked this season cows bandwagon I look so defensive already.
Yeah didn't even have to poke the bear Yeah, I'm so defensive of k-love He's my man. I love him what's Tell me about your basketball career cuz I don't really know and no one else really knows. Yeah Basketball, where'd you start? Where'd you finish? Okay, I wasn't everything 100% there was a season. Well, okay. We'll start at the very beginning Once upon a time little tests went to Oz hoops and she loved it Then decided to play reps I played for Mornington I think until like bottom age under 14 break Seeing a general theme here
like go packer go breakers it works Then I went to and that's when it kind of clicked that I really loved basketball and I was somewhat okay at it Which scares me? Why does this case because I've seen you run around I've seen your hand eye coordination. I know you can't see shit Yeah, so I went to Dandenong and played out the rest of my Underage career there. I did have a voluntary To Dandenong was voluntary because I had as much as I love Mornington breakers and what it provided for me from a start-up Like
perspective I really wanted to be challenged And that was going to like a bigger club where they've got those sort of Coaches that can really kind of challenge you to to go down certain pathways So went to Dandenong Really developed really well there and like in terms of me not being hello coordinated or all that kind of thing I think it was my like game smarts that kind of Set me up as a point guard and like I was able to control tempo and get through sets and like know which set would Run well for all that kind of thing.
So I think was my decision-making ability more than my necessarily athletically gifted talents and I had a pretty good like Aerobic fitness from Sweden swimming so I was just able to kind of yeah run out a game and be alright And then yeah, I spent one season down at Southern Penn Which was Like getting poached go down there and that was a really challenging year for me How are you? I was top age under 16, so I think Yeah, year 10 sounds about right. Yeah, so And that was like completely different coaching perspective and it
Initially, I was like yeah, I want to try that like I want to see how I respond to that And then I gradually realized that no, I don't work well in this sort of environment So I went back to Dandenong and yeah finished finished under 21s there we won We won state champs and all that kind of thing like That was that was like top tier kind of thing there was a time where I was considering like doing the whole portfolio and trying to get over to college and and that but Yeah, I just didn't
Just kind of settled in with what I was doing and wanted to be more like loving what I was doing and playing basketball and it becoming like a pressurizing for me to To do really well at and like going into your 11 and 12 like I'd started to kind of Understand how I was functioning as a student and what I was doing So I was like, let's just do this basketball can be my fun thing my hobby the thing. I love to do If you go compare yourself to someone in the NBA who are you as a bus walk I'll be I know he oh, he's actually back there.
I'll be like Dali Like I'm that I'll roll play. Yeah, I'll be role player. I'll hustle I'll work hundred 10% on these time. You have a better stroke than him though, because his is ugly. Yeah, Harold can contest to that I saw where you call him Harold. I still can't get used to it Harold Yeah, no Harold and I we did um state all we did like some State basketball like there's a big ball fiend. Yeah. Yeah. So we like I remember that at least yeah Bonded yeah And Trump it's so cool. Actually, I can't
talk so I've got the same sort of history Yeah, we like did since we'd like did basketball camps and intensive programs together while I was down at Southern Penn and yeah, like I would be the three-point shooter and then like hit my shots and he'd be the guy that would just blow past me on A drive because I can't change direction quick. Oh shit. That's really not so good. Yeah, it's not a strength Hey, there's nothing wrong with that. All right. I am going to throw some of these questions from the vetus family So I'm gonna need your phone.
Oh, thank you Because mine's filming and I learnt from previous mistakes and now they're on your phone because I'm a big brain player There's some nice photos of David there. Yeah, I can't wait to see the bread man Where's bogeyman bread man yet bread man. You like about David. Hey Genuinely makes me very lovable. Yeah, like even yesterday. I was like tearing up. Yeah, you were I was To be fair. We were absolutely giving it to him. He was jumping. Yeah Gracefully falling and catching yourself somehow standing up somehow standing up. I think is a good answer Okay, first question.
We're gonna go with Jordan or Kobe Who do you prefer? Oh That's a really tough question. Everyone goes Jordan LeBron. So I go the other way kobe RIP. Yeah, do so Speaking of how we'll only get straight to Howard's Harold's question here Trail run debut. I'm actually so keen for this by the way trial run. Yeah, I Don't know that I haven't done many but I love trial running. Well, he's a mountain man. Yeah, he's a he's a proper man, man yeah, so I Mean like I I feel like I just got a tick off doing the marathon first and then I can Shall we talk about it now Yeah, get out of the way.
Yeah, let's talk about weekend warrior test before we get going through these questions. Yeah, okay What's your endeavors right now test? to survive Survive my training program That feels better it was one two weeks. Okay. That was that was like the hardest two weeks. You're welcome. It's carried building We came out alive. Was it like 60k weeks? No one was 61 was 54 Yeah, so half marathon ticked tell us about that. Yeah, that was That was really cool. Um, it was cool. I even came out for it Yeah, I don't know I've never done something Like an internal goal before um, like that's very the half marathon.
You don't know my birthday. Do you know? No, it was like I guess screensaver ring. I was like poking it then I poked the wrong thing. I lost it. So Yeah, it's like the first time I've really done like an internal goal Um, a lot of like my sport has very much been team orientated, which I love I love working in team, but this is very much like okay go run like go and do it for you go and Challenge yourself put yourself in that I guess that uncomfortable position and see how you go and
I know we didn't like we trained for it But in hindsight, like I 100% would have loved to have felt 10 times more confident in being able to run your own ability Cuz I knew could do it and some yeah, I think it's just like mentally I was like I would have loved another month under my belt. Yeah, which you did not need at all because what times you're on it in Officially 145. Yeah, that ain't slow Yeah, yeah that like last 2k though. I was seeing like stars Yeah, cuz was hot and hot and
you will leggings We also didn't think about fueling no, well we tried to and then it just we never went actually through it like yeah She'd be fun. Anyway, she well like I was talking one of my athletes about it, and she's actually asked one of these questions but um How many of these you memorized by the way? Few of them, um Yeah, I was like talking to her about it and she was like, so you've got jowls I was like So I had him with me and if you were battling badly I was gonna throw away.
Yes, usually I That's why I came saw you at like the 16k mark was like I think she'd be okay to like 14 It was the easiest point for me to like actually get within arms with Richie. Where was 16k? Secular road kind of like up the gradual hill. I did not see there. No, you didn't need to cuz I was like, oh, yeah She looks okay. Like okay, you can tell when someone's like battling batting like I know she's okay. It hit me with like 2k to go Yeah, um But I definitely had jellies with me by the way.
Yeah. Well, I had all of them. I had caffeine No caffeine. I had sugary. I had like don't give me caffeine. I didn't It was just it was it like break glass in case of emergency kind of thing. Yeah Yeah, well, that's good to know that my coach is looking out for me. Oh, I looked after you. Yeah. Yeah, you did well Yeah, so I know half man was really cool kind of to see myself achieve that for me it was really awesome And then yeah, I guess this year it's doing the full. Yeah, it is October is already too close Yeah, what's your favorite snack post half a nothing You absolutely fiend.
Oh, yeah. I was very disappointed in the smoothie. There was like chunks of yeah So I left the smoothie to itself. Um, it's a famous photo of you having armfuls or snacks by the way. Yeah Yeah, great snack options. Like there was like chalky milk store like anything. Okay. Yeah. Um, I Loved the weird little like little crunchy things. Yeah Yeah, I think they're like a chickpea kind of thing and then they had like barbecue like flavoring on it. They were real good I snuck another bag That was from jazz by the way There's another one for jazz, but we're gonna finish with that one cuz that's that's a great little segue Lonnie who is your favorite athlete?
Okay, so I'm gonna use it And I know you already thought about this one to get around the answering this question. So okay from From that perspective my favorite athlete would have to be Lenny Hayes. I look like He's he's just a legend like ready read his book and it's just that hard working like Work ethic hundred percent. I want to know how I can get better. I want to support the people around me to also do the Same thing. I'm gonna be there as a good friend like just around good human good bloke And
we'll left leave like nothing unturned in his like ambition to get better, which I know I just find that awesome And Then I'll take a leaf out of Noel Donaldson's coaching book and say that my second favorite athlete at the VAS Would have to be like I love working with our power athletes like Vani and Grom They just like so hang on who's second. There's two there No, I wanted to try to get you to but I knew you wouldn't anyway Second favorite power athletes. Yeah, there's just so cool to work with because it's like yeah I know my stuff is a physiologist, but it's like okay.
We'll now apply it to in Like their case. They've got their different disabilities that I've got to work within which means that I've got to adapt I've got to be ready to like jump around and change some stuff up. Yeah. Yeah Who has been someone you've been just star-strucked working with? Starstruck yeah I don't think I've ever No, I don't think I've ever been starstruck necessarily There's been like moments when I've walked into the gym and there's like Joey Ingalls there and I'm like, well, this is cool Let me just walk slowly across the gym
floor But I don't think athlete wise and I Think it's because when you're in it, it's like that, you know them There's the Lucy Steffens and like the cat wearies and those kind of girls who are like Insane like Tokyo gold medalists all that kind of thing ticked off and you're like, yeah, these girls are cool But it's like, you know them as an athlete and also as a person so I wouldn't necessarily say starstruck Like some of the times you're like, yeah, you're way more scared of me than I am you would tell you that much Yeah, like I could turn around and be like go and do a four-minute max on your ass.
Yeah Let's do a seven by four right here right now. Get back on that. Erg. Yeah All right. Let's go with one more from the girl Oh, there's a couple more actually because I forgot about the whiteboard questions Lots of people are very accused about you test you see a big impact small time told you Let's go well Steph's in the room so we can ask this one really easily Do you need Steph to come and hold your hand? Yes Thank you. What's our heart rate that actually so we started at 87 we got down to 77 75 75.
Yeah, we're chillin out. We're comfy now. We're good. We're good 62 Yeah, I'm not down at resting Oh 72 Yeah, that's about my resting. I'm like 58 All right. Let's go last question Let's go one from a rose. She wrote a few. She wrote a lot. She wrote a few. Yeah some we've already answered. So that's okay Do we tick off the favorites is the one or we're gonna talk about? Oh I mean, there's like yeah, I ain't Clancy. Yeah, but like it's the favorite though. I Love them both equally fence it all out. It's family.
Your dog's pretty cute though. Yeah Okay, let's go with How do you keep going when it gets tough? Mm-hmm. That wasn't my question. It wasn't Question from the gallery, okay Shift topics, how do I I Think it's taking strength from what like I've gone through and Knowing that if I can get through that then I can get through anything. So taking Yet like kind of giving myself a little bit of like hey you like you got this kind of thing But then I'd also say when I do start to feel like overwhelmed anxious and all that kind of thing Like I literally take a step back from everything and I'm just like, okay.
What do I got to do right now? and then yeah, you kind of start to see yourself just like tick those little boxes and And that can be from a work perspective in terms of okay. I just got to do this one report now I don't need to worry about the other 20 that I've got to do Yeah, and then you like just gradually get it get up the mountain kind of thing I think also also from like a personal perspective. It's like I've got little things in place where it's Okay, I'm going to the gym like that's that's one thing.
That's like a hang out with these idiots Yeah, like I'm gonna give myself David and Ryan. Yes, of course. Yeah. No, you guys are hella smart No, that's not what I'm talking about Just less of an idiot than those guys Poor David, um, you know poor David he brings his own himself You're gonna listen to this nah, no, I don't think so either unless I'm like, okay listen to minute 21 30 seconds 56 minutes and I don't even know where accident or we started Yeah, I have like little things or I'm like, okay like that's my that's my like anchor kind of thing It's like we're gonna go to the gym where?
Gonna get up make bed. We're gonna if I've got a hectic day I'm just gonna like lay out what I'm wearing for the next day and I know I kind of Set myself up for success in that in that aspect So I've got those little like grounding things where I'm like, hey if I'm doing this like I'm doing something and then it's like from A work perspective. It's like yeah, just take a step back from feeling overwhelmed ask for help Don't think that you have to do absolutely everything Yeah, that's probably my my way of getting through it Like it.
All right. We are just under an area and we're gonna shift topic to topic of the day so Tess We spoke at the start your PhD. What is it? Sorry, I'm gonna know it out now. Yeah, this is so this is where we like I lured you into a false sense security So we're for half an hour. You can actually fully nerd out because this is topic of the day. Yeah. Okay, cool So my PhD is looking at the relationship between neurocognition and sidestep cutting biomechanics in AFLW players Awesome explain that if someone has no
idea what that is, it's seeing if there's a relationship between how your brain works To how you move essentially so for We're going back a step just before we move on for those listening or watching I don't think anyone watches what we still filmed lucky like they wouldn't So for season four we are doing a Topic with the guests. So Topic today is obviously gonna talk about ACL risks and what tests feels about injury prevention as a term Which I have my own opinions on but we'll get it to that as well So obviously highly educated and highly qualified in that area.
What made you start in that area? What did you do about it? I think it was in watching 2017 AFLW comes in and it's just like ACLs like just the right was just insane And I was with I went into traineeship in 2019 with North Melbourne's AFLW team so it was their first season and Even they're like the discussions that I had within the high performance team It was like this is just bananas. Like we don't like we're doing all this stuff, but like ACL injuries are still happening And then so yet 2019 was the same year that I was at Vis and then it came to the point where I was like, okay.
Well, what do I want to do 2020? And um, I decided to go into research and so looking through Deakin provides like this honors booklet with a whole range of topics and supervisors and one of the topics was to characterize ACL injuries in the AFLW And I was like, huh? This is a niche area and it needs to be done and it's like from me from the perspective of being a woman who wants To play sport and want to see like I love AFL. So I want to say I follow you succeed It's like well,
I don't want this to not succeed because girls are afraid to do an ACL injury So I was like I can see where I personally I'm attached to it and value it and then I can also see the value from a research perspective of If we can start to understand why these ACL injuries are happening so frequently and understand how they are happening as well That's going to be super beneficial to what we're going to do from practical sense in that injury prevention space what We always sit on a PhD before going into the service being Dr.
Trolley Shout out to actually that nickname trolley came from Patrick Wilson who was like one of my favorite uni buddies and still one of my Yeah And he's still like one of my closest friends and I didn't realize it but like my Deakin username was trolley I was like, no, it's trolley and he's like, no, it's trolley Just like stuck and what do you do every time you go to the supermarket? I laugh at the shopping trolley base Those symbols come back again. There's even like in the VIS lab. It's like lab trolley one and I'm like Like don't know the other day pointed it out.
He's like Yeah, trolley is a good one, I'm happy with that What imagine curious about a PhD or what made you want to do it? So you said you always wanted to do it. Yeah, so I guess the year it VIS really kind of showed me that I needed a PhD like if I wanted to work within elite sport especially at the VIS like pretty much you're Just to even get a foot in the door is to have a PhD now And so that was really encouraged by my supervisors there Unfortunately, like they didn't have
an honours project to lead me through like in the stay at VIS and do the honours project at the same time so Yeah, I kind of went back to what I found really interesting North Melbourne and it's like ACLs and it kind of all just added up so And then the interest in doing the PhD was like we got our findings from my honours work But it put which is typical in research. It makes you have another 10 questions left unanswered So it's like, okay. Well, here's a PhD. Yeah Yeah from finishing undergrad to getting accepted for a PhD.
What's that process look like? Yeah, so I mean from a Deakin perspective. I only know yeah We love taking that's okay. Yeah, we love Deakin You're a teacher now technically. Huh? You're a teacher now. An academic. Yeah, but no one will take me seriously Yeah, they're more scared of you than you are of them No they are. I don't think so. We'll get over that hurdle one day. Yeah So yeah do your undergrad Then there's sort of like two different directions you can go you did the masters So if you do the masters, there's like
one unit that I think you do in like the final semester Which can essentially if you do well enough in that unit, you can go into a PhD masters by research. Yeah and then Or the other option is to do an honours. So an intensive intensive year looking at your area of research I kind of Felt like with the masters. I kind of had my practical experience from doing the traineeships at North and at VIS and I knew that I needed a PhD and I was kind of like weighing up. Well, if I do a
masters, I'm gonna get all this other learning But I need to make sure that I do really really well in this one topic so that I can get accepted Whereas if I just focus on doing an honours for years, like I can just focus on that one thing do it Do it really really well, and then that will give me a better chance at being accepted into doing PhD Yep, so they're kind of like the two different pathways And yeah, you needed that like high distinction in honours to get PhD scholarship Which essentially funds you to do research for three years And then yeah, you're kind of like left to your own devices.
What's the application process look like? So it's kind of a little bit nitty-gritty, but it was pretty smooth sailing for me because my Supervisors stayed the same. I Would if anyone is thinking of doing honours, I would highly recommend Investigating in the best way your supervisors Because I second that yeah the other end of it. Yeah, you like need to make sure I got her here. I got her in I got her. Yeah. Yeah, she meant for business. Yeah I was actually pretty intimidated when I sat down Yeah, I would highly recommend kind of investigating
potential supervisors because If you end up with great supervisors like what I did like it's so like smooth sailing like they will Send back drafts. They'll give you feedback like it's so good But if you have people that are not as great, yeah, it makes it ten times more difficult And so that's why when I was considering if I continue doing the PhD, it was like well, I know my supervisory team I know that they're 100% awesome and I can rely on them and they're going to support me through my pathways. So Yeah, that's kind of the process you need to make sure that you have a supervisory team You need to make sure that you have your topic.
Mine was pretty It's pretty much there from my honors research And then yeah, you like get accepted. I Do your confirmation of candy char, which is so nerve-wracking. I'm sure you really enjoyed that Character building. Yeah 20 minutes. We're just gonna stare at you in 140 heart rate. Yeah What is that for people don't know what that is? So I think it was like it's so you write up a 12,000 word document and that's a review of literature in the area of Research that you're looking at So that was me looking into like concussion cognition
how it works in a performance perspective and also in a movement perspective and then elaborating on like our findings from my honors research, so ACL injury is happening in that sidestep cutting scenario And then so elaborate all that in a review of literature and then you do your research proposal, which is essentially Saying look these are the the three or four studies that we're going to do in order to answer this question And this is why this study with this method methodological Methodological approach Will work and why it's effective and then like yeah, yeah research
aims research outcomes Yeah, so you have that 12,000 word document you submit it then probably like a month or so later you do a presentation on that document essentially, which is 20-minute presentation and there's a panel of Right. It is so Funny story though because I was the first person back doing it in person But there was still like a zoom link and so people could watch it and my mother She like watched it course. She did and then there's like this distinct moment where it's like, okay Thanks everyone for attending. You can now like
a log off blah blah blah like we're gonna go into the panel discussion Like it's private kind of thing And then I walk out of the panel and I look at my phone There's a message from mum being like he answered that man's questions. So well, I was like You were not meant to say that so she's just been hovering Yeah, she loves it no, she doesn't Karen Rolley, yes, Karen, Karen That's worse Way worse. Yeah. Yeah, so that's the confirmation process Yeah, and where you're at now with how far in you have fun to go.
What's the process? Where you are? So we're obviously gathering fresh work. We knew that. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I'm about a year and year and a bit in now, so Yeah, I'm kind of at that data collection point It's it's it'll be fun once I get actually get into it and get my like hands dirty in a sense And I'm running all the tests and like actually seeing numbers at the moment. It's just a little bit Challenge. Yeah, that's okay. We've got some promising signs. So yeah, what's This might be a left-to-center. What do you expect to come from it?
Um, I Not sure if I expect it, but I would Hope that it shakes up the game a little bit. Oh In that it plants a little idea in people's heads around how we're approaching things or if there's Like we know that in knee injuries happen and we typically think about it from the perspective of okay Well, how are we moving and it's like yeah awesome cool, but like the thing that kind of Makes us move is our brain, but we haven't really explored that to an extent and that's essentially what my research is going to elaborate on and hopefully Figure out is that connection between the brain and then our lower limb movement and how we're loading essentially.
What does the gathering process look like what's what are some of the I've seen some of it. What are some of the tests you run? Like what are the things you're looking for or what are you testing the girls on? So The neuro cognitive testing session It's like a series of five different cognitive tests that are like range from specificity and complexity specificity in the sense of like AFL and football task and Complexity in terms of like how challenging the task is So you've got like you're really simple like reaction time tasks information processing speed
all that kind of thing and then our task that's both high complexity and high specificity is Using this thing called F news so functional near infrared spectroscopy Which is essentially like this cap that you sit on your head and it assesses brain activity And how we're going to use that is we'll have the players come in and they'll put this cap on it's like non-invasive So they don't even know what's going on So it just sits on their head assess assesses brain activity and we're just going to play a video of a player either cutting
Left or right and they have to respond on the keypad Like left or right whatever way they think the play is going to move So in that we're looking at reactive time of reaction time information processing speed and then like also accuracy But in that really as best as we could like specific Specific sport setting what are the practical? Usability outcomes that will come from that. So I guess left or right does it doesn't matter? yeah, I mean like we're kind of trying to get it from the sense of that's our neurocognitive measure and then
where they're going to do that biomechanical assessment of The of that side step cutting tasks to look at knee loads and all that kind of thing And then we're going to try and grab those variables of reaction time and post processing speed accuracy and see if there's that link between Cognitive performance across those tasks and then how they perform that sidestep cutting task which is also stimulated in that sport specific setting in that the player will have to respond to either doing like a Straight 45 degree cut or a 180 turn back and run or
a straight line cut, but it's all in like responding to a video of another player Doing tasks and they have to like process those cues and execute that movement task Yeah, is there from the environment you've been in or the things you know about is there something you wish clubs would do differently? Like right now without knowing anything Right now. Yeah, I would say It's really tricky yeah Because an easy question. Yeah, it's like like I did my honors project and I published that and and Then it becomes this discussion around like okay, so should we be doing more of this?
Yeah, like should we be like cognitively challenging once black and white? Yeah, it's like and it's like yeah You should be doing that but you should also be doing X Y and Z and it's such like a multi factorial answer that it's like In AFLW and you're like highly aware of this. There's so many practical limitations around like time with the girls and also they're having to manage like jobs outside of footy and there's like a whole array of things that It sounds really bad but like if they were full-time and they were treated both
Athletes and staff were treated in the same way that the male system is treated It's like we could probably reduce this rate like tenfold But yeah, I guess like that's like the big goal but baby steps is like, okay Well, if you're doing prep to play like let's actually do it. Let's do it. Not just for like one month like let's do it Preseason, let's do it in season and let's not just do 15 minutes Like let's actually do it for that full 30 minutes. Anyhow, whatever you got. Like let's actually place value on this
program because It's like evidently from my honors work like the landing stuff like there's hardly any ACL injuries happening from landing in AFLW and that's because such a big proportion of that prep to play is Landing, but then there's this element of okay Well sidestep cutting is now like the predominant like injury movement tasks So let's try to increase the amount of sidestep cutting that we're doing and put it in a cognitively challenging environment To stimulate that reactive nature that they're having to do it in. So let's like tick those things really really well Yeah, and then hopefully you start to look at the broader picture around Time availability.
Yeah, and those practical aspects. Yeah, we've been looking at a lot of like ocular away running trying to decipher what a task is we trying to remove in that direction because you know, we we do a big review at the end of the year and we spend an hour or two hours just Not arguing robust discussions. Yeah, it's good their end our thoughts of it But it's it's like it this that more of that stuff becomes usable when you have 15 people that are on the same path That don't take it personally and can actually
have an open discussion around things Whether that is in person at meetings or I mean even nowadays like online and stuff like that like It's a part of what we need to do to an extent to help curb the issue of it happening so frequently It's never gonna not happen. Mmm, but even like this year not as many happen on contact And I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but like there was a heat more contact issue Yeah, there's a really awkward situations Yeah, which from as we know from like an AFW perspective the game is more contested.
It's more tackle bases more contact It's excellent. So yeah, it is it's more ground base than Typically, they spend longer on the ground and their male counterparts, etc. What do we do with that? Well, yeah, we're working it out And I think that's like yeah, we're working it out and it can be frustrating but it's also like we're working it out Okay, let's have some as you said like let's have some challenging challenging discussions with the intent to like let's Explore some things. Let's like get in that region of being uncomfortable and trial some things out and see what happens Yeah, what do you want to do post PhD?
Oh, what do you want to do with it? I Know you don't like this. You just shriveled a little bit To be a hundred like to be honest, I'm just enjoying the process of doing a PhD And like I can see myself Staying in this research area, but I can also see myself being at VAS or wanting to be more practical in what I'm doing So I'm kind of like and I think it's also I've As a kid like I've constantly been reaching for goals and getting that next thing getting that next thing and doing all that kind of Thing but this is like, okay.
It's a PhD like what do you do after PhD like this? There's no other well, there's like no other technically. There's no other box that you got a tick, right? so it's like let's just sit back and enjoy the process of doing a PhD and Whatever comes at the end of it comes and like I'll specifically know how I feel about my PhD I'll know how I feel about the is I'll know like all those things when it yeah when it gets there at least I've got Options and you have so many people that it's not gonna let you have a meltdown What what else you just about from like a From an AFAWACL.
What else piques your curiosity? I'm like at the moment. I'm doing a little paper on the side Actually, there's like two little papers on the side. So one we're like looking at that purely unanticipated versus Anticipated and biomechanics there and we had some really interesting findings from that in terms of those going to this. Yeah, okay I'll do my little just path leading my eight-minute presentation So we actually found in the unanticipated Trials that the knee loads. So there's dangerous knee loads that lead to ACL injury or loading and strain We're actually lower in the
unanticipated task Which is sort of contradictory to previous research in that you see those high knee loads in the unanticipated tasks So in trying to make sense of that we then like looks through the gram reaction force data and also the approach speed data At initial contact, so we tried to monitor and control speed two meters prior to the cutting area And that seemed to be consistent across all the trials, but then when we looked at it at initial contact So when they're placing that change of direction foot, I think it's like their left foot
On that force plate there was like evidently significant deceleration had occurred and so therefore they're traveling at a slower speed So therefore the knee loads a lot. Yeah, so essentially like in very layman's Terms and very loosely they're essentially safer in performing that unanticipated task but considering like previous research and then also the findings of my Study in that ACL injuries are happening in that reactive sidestep cutting scenario. It's like well that can't like that doesn't make sense so From that paper. We propose that they've got this cautious approach that they implement when doing those
unanticipated tasks Yeah, yeah, it's like I'm gonna give myself a little bit more time yeah, yeah, so Yeah, we propose that like cautious approach and then those practical implications of like well, what if they're doing that at training? so essentially they're not training at the speed that they're going to have to withstand in match and They're not training with the cognitive demands that they're going to have to experience in match So if you can stimulate that environment more in match Then you're more likely to have that loading total like tolerance to load when you're actually
executing the task so that I found really interesting and then the other thing that sort of piquing my interest is as you said the The scenario in which ACL injuries are current or in the most recent season Has sort of shifted to that more contact rather than non contact. So I'm using the same methodology that I used in my honors. I'm now characterizing all the injuries from I Think I finished honors with the data from 2020. So every season from 2020. So the last couple of seasons to kind of get an understanding of if that
scenario is changed or if it's shifted more to the second Predominant injury scenario, which we proposed as the unbalanced state scenario So, yeah, that's sort of piquing my interest at the moment is trying to understand how Not only the game styles change, but then how that's then being reflected in how ACL injuries are happening. Yeah Yeah, cool. See this not too nerdy. It's pretty good. I felt hella nerdy. That's that's the best part Maybe you had a half an hour ago hella nerdy Yeah, my brain hurts practically. What what do you want to come from all three technically studies?
I want to say ACL injury rates drop. Yeah, like I want what what do you deem acceptable? Like if we get it to three to four times what's it currently so the highest I've seen is nine times and Yeah, I'm gonna live yeah Yet nine times that's the highest I've seen it I think that was in like 2018 So it has come down a little bit, but it's still like six or seven times Yeah, and if you then compare that to other team sports with like female vs. Male It's that's only like three to four times.
I like women are more likely to do it than males Yeah, so if we get down to that right like I'd be I'd be like, yep, cool like we're finally getting Getting a handle on what's going on. Yeah Look at shoulders. Oh nice shoulder scammy. I had shows. Well, even my least favorite thing to rehab and I've been doing so many of them Recently, I'm so over shoulders. Yeah, so does there a lot that out shoulder crew, so I'm so done. Oh, no, it's too many Just anything I see this. Oh, I want I want to hear about it.
Yeah, that's fair enough. They seem tricky I don't know. I don't know a lot about shoulders. So That's your department. We don't need to get yeah, but it could even be like like even from a concussion space Yeah, if I find that Post concussion you're at risk of doing an ACL injury. It's like, okay Well, let's reevaluate how we're doing return to return to play post concussion Yeah, so I don't know it can have a array of implications. I think What's let's shift from away from knees. Mmm injury prevention in general Your thoughts on the
term It's a term that everyone loves to have an opinion on which is why I wanted to ask you about it Personally sports science high performance doesn't matter what field you come on. That's just cool sports science in general as an industry Yeah, I know right I think I mean I personally don't have a better term to propose I think the Ideas behind like ideas around the intention behind it. Yeah could potentially shift. Yeah. Well, do you like to shift to I know from a VIS perspective Especially in rowing like It's injury prevention, but essentially we're trying to build Robust and resilient athletes so that they can perform two favorite words.
Yeah so it's like You want to set yourself set your athlete up for success so you want to tick off those boxes around Okay. Well if we know that you're doing this sport and this is an at-risk injury associated with that sport We're going to prep you for that. Yeah, like I feel like that's just a smart approach to things I think in the AFL W space Injury prevention is challenging at the moment because We don't have all the information. We don't have all the data. We don't have specific enough research specifically in AFL W Stable population.
Yeah. Yeah, so it's like It's tricky and that's why I can understand the prep to play program when it saw all the ACL injuries happen in 2017 It was like, okay. Let's just put something together. What research do we have? Oh shit. We got no research. Okay, let's have a look at Other female team sports, okay landing huge one. So let's put in some stuff about landing And then let's pull on some things specific to AFL. Okay, like let's have a look at this paper. That's ACL injuries in in the men's competition So I can
understand why they did it the way they did it because they needed to do it But now it's like we need to be specific about what we're doing and why we're doing it and how we're going to do it Which takes research and it takes time, but I think injury prevention as a loose term It's okay. Yeah, but it's like Be specific and what you want to be better. Yeah What terms do you have? What would you want? I Don't like Sport is naturally chaotic. Yeah, and in my opinion AFL is the hardest one in the world physiologically Mm-hmm, because it's high speed.
It's 360 its Cognitive it's not linear. Mm-hmm. It's in the elements. It's not enclosed at him all the time It's on a wide field Yeah go into as many details like so Physiologically, I actually think it's the hardest spot in the world and I'm happy to argue that with anyone but Knowing that sport especially AFL for example, I'm just gonna talk about AFL here that it is chaotic and it's 360 and etc What I just spoke about then Injuries aren't preventable to an extent. Yeah there you can mitigate but you can't prevent There's no never
will there ever be a season of any sport ever in any field age group that there won't be an injury Yeah, there's injuries in under 10. Yeah. Well, you look at over 60s like it's it doesn't matter Yeah, so the the term of prevention I hate because When we talk about and knowing where the word prevention comes from from a health Industry mmm diseases can be preventable. Yes. Yeah injuries a little different. So I Is there a good overarching umbrella term? Maybe not I like the I use or I tend to go with the energy injury risk mitigation Just knock it on the head.
Yeah, and this is what I'll shout out Ben here. It's where you have it this time We don't do dumb shit. Yeah Start to dump shit and you take in box number one already. We're gonna say before Well, it's kind of like in terms of AFL versus Like rowing for example, we know what injuries you're going to getting wrong. Like it's pretty like it's in a controlled environment To like extent. Yeah, so it's like, okay Well, we can prevent or we can mitigate that as best as we can Yeah, whereas in AFL like as you
said, it's so like 360 like you've got demands everywhere You just don't know what you're going to get and then also in terms of that ACL perspective you can have non-contact injuries, but then you can also have non contact contact injuries and That's just like bad luck. Yeah, essentially like if you get jammed in a spot and you're going full valgus Like there's nothing you can do about sport. There's a reason that the world loves sport as much as we do It's because it's chaos. It's because it's it's because we did it before it's inviting we want to get better at it It's competitive so it taps into the natural instincts of being a human.
Yeah, and then you combine that you I like to use the term of like putting high under 20 breaks in a Ferrari It's gonna break eventually when you're trying to get the 1% that we were talking about before out of Anyone whether they are human or an athlete something's gonna break Yeah, you can adapt that to business if you're trying to reach peak performance with some of your workers. They're gonna break eventually Yes, it's not physical but it might be mental or social or something has to give something else to gain and I think a
lot of people forget that part of it is Not always do we need to pump stuff in sometimes we can take stuff away Yeah, and that's like my biggest thing. It was like injury risk mitigation is coming down to don't do dumb shit Yeah, just do the Fucking petrol in it. Yeah. Yeah, do the things that you know work and do them really really well Yeah, and then understand the demands meet the demands kind of over meet the demands, but don't do dumb shit. Yeah. Yeah Do we ended on that one? That's pretty good. Don't do dumb shit folks.
Don't do dumb shit quotes Alright Tess anymore for anymore. What's your heart rate? What do we finish on? We're gonna wrap it up 64 We got there all right on that note Tess is at 64 she's chill she's gonna go do Yeah, we're gonna do work out why I'm not gonna do work at you're gonna do work out cuz it's still 10. So Thank you for coming on Tess. I didn't have to handcuff you to the chair You did well, you know another one sir. No, I'm done. No, you know surprise Who's who else do you think may?
Maybe well may is coming on Oh Steph hundreds F is also coming on I got so many people on my list, but I will stick you and Bonnie in a room dealer Because I want to talk about coach athlete relationship. Yeah. Okay, that's a good one for you, too Yeah, that'll be fun. So on that cliffhanger. See everyone. Thanks coming Have a good day
