Automatically transcribed, so expect the odd wrong name or word.
All righty beautiful people welcome back to the Verdi podcast I have a very special guest today before I introduce him. I'll give you a little bit of a back story Known him for a long time couple of decades and in that time, I reckon I've seen him change More than almost anyone else in my world and I'm very proud of him from that. He's Experienced a rapid ascendance of growth in all areas of his life Probably driven mostly by his wife, but we'll touch on her influence, but I've been able to see him level up question experience the world in different ways Whilst also having a close connection.
He doesn't answer my phone calls but we managed to Grab him and get him on the Verdi pod for at least an hour. So porky Paul PW world mate. It's a pleasure. I can't believe it's taking this long. Thank you. Thank you for me to invite you on Yeah, I wanted to wait till you actually had something good to say that was like a pw wrapped over the last 20 years I know, you know give us the from your perspective because obviously like I've experienced seen it from my own experience But give me a little rundown into your mind as how you look at the last 10 15 years.
I Actually haven't considered it from the perspective that you just said I don't feel the changes I just feel like It's just me being me the entire time. I don't feel like I've had huge seasons of growth or anything like that Looking back I can see that but when you're in it, yeah It's hard to it's hard to put it into that into those words So it's cool to hear it from your perspective before I go there. I would also just like to say the same thing here Even walking through vertice still even when I walk through the door, there'll be a mat.
That's changed There'll be a new picture on the wall and it's being cool to like we've been on this journey together So yeah, that's been nice too and one of the og build and burn. Yeah, I think The first deadlift in this gym actually. Yeah Hey put that on the wall. That's a good claim to fame Yeah, yeah, and then and then now when I walk you still haven't finished the air con you put on the wall Eleven years ago. So does it work still works? Okay, if it works And then and then when I
walked in today, I was like vertice has a life of its own You don't need to be here and it carries its own energy and I was just reflecting on that too. So Yeah, I don't want to like go over the top with compliments or anything, but I appreciate it Yeah, you also need a haircut. Let's just balance it out. KP didn't tell me to say that. Yeah She aligns with your feelings on that though. She's last night. She's like I hate it fix it I was like, I'm not ready yet. I'm just jealous growing
on me Your question was just how like how do you reflect on your growth because because I liked how you said I Didn't I don't think about it like You know move forward reflect move forward reflect. And I think that's probably part of Problem with society and how we run things. There's always like what's the next thing and we don't take time to go Okay. Well, how far have I actually come? What have I actually achieved? So I think it's a yeah, I'd imagine it would be a fruitful endeavor for you to like sit here and go Oh, how can I articulate, you know a decade of growth in 90 seconds?
Okay Okay. Well, I would actually like to speak into where I'm at now, which is I Almost feel as though I've broken that cycle. I'm out of that loop of what's next how to grow yeah, and and the problem I had with that was like I need to Wait for this future version of me To arrive until I'm complete and I'm a value and and I can step into like the next thing Yeah so I've always been on the seeking loop not realizing that had everything that I needed and it was about embodiment and Just
doing the thing and I finally done that so that was a pretty exhausting loop to be in I think it's really common for people and And it's a it's a big relief to be at this stage now where I can be like honor I'm I'm sweet with who I am. I could not listen to another podcast watch another video read another book I'm not gonna do those things I'm still gonna read books and and stuff like that But it's also nice to be like it's time to apply the knowledge that critical mass has been reached Yeah, so I've closed that seeking loop.
But anyway, that's good contract. That's good to reflect on on the growth journey hmm Just um, I can't imagine doing it another way. That's cool Yeah, cuz it's just been like and I think one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on is like through this series We're talking about like lifelong health and well-being right but yours has been Experiential experiential learning like every step of the way. Yes, you've been reading like a madman Listen to podcasts listen to me when you answer my phone calls talk about the world and why it should
be different but like everything you've gone through you've experienced it yourself, which I think Be now shifting into the coaching space and we'll talk about it. Now. You can utilize your experiences to then help others, you know Transcend where they're currently at or you facilitate their growth or at least create create space for them to potentially lead into hmm And what I just actually spoke about then that's pretty much where I start with my coaching to be like What are you reaching for as a shortcut? To get to where you really need to get to. Yeah, so it plays in perfectly and it has been good and like Elise has been saying it to me.
My old lady says it to me A lot of people have said that when I decided to do the coaching like about time You can say whatever the fuck you want. Okay about fucking time like several people strangers What people have been following me online like yeah, it makes sense for you to step into this Yeah, I didn't see myself on the journey that you're explaining but looking back. Yeah, I have I have I've had mentors I've had coaches. I've Sort of just been a soundboard for other people along along the journey like yourself like
we've had good discussions and so now I get to keep put on a coaching hat and to do it intentionally and it's And it's fun because I think my journey has been pretty unique yeah, I just with I don't know just It started probably it was a performance thing for me back in the day to be training to be playing footy to try and Become a better athlete and then it turned into like what edge can I get and then it became more about the cognitive? pursuit of You know which ties into performance and stuff
obviously But it more became like an intellectual pursuit and then and then it became as I got older about like my health is tanking so, how do I just resettle the foundation of my health and then build out from there and That's how I would coach people now is to be like you probably don't need to Worry about all the all the fancy bells and whistles before you fix the foundation. Yeah Yeah, I think like because so many people you're right go from the the performance and furs It's either I feel and this is like
generalizing massively and I spoke to Joe about this the other week of like females Usually it's a it's aesthetics initially Into like the growth is to performance. Whereas I think is most guys follow the Performance into health you like, you know, you might push too hard or do too much and then you realize oh shit This isn't actually serving me and this isn't creating a foundation that I can be Fit healthy capable for the next 40 50 years for my family for myself for the people around me So I think that performance first You know
figuring out health reciprocity after that's probably the the growth that You as a coach I would imagine we'll try and like speed that up for people to be able to like hey I've made all these mistakes. I've learned all these things from it Now this system that I've that you've built because of the shit is important to you is centered around Okay. Well, how do we look after your health first? How do we make sure that you're you know, knocking over all your big rocks? How do we make sure you're sleeping? Well, you're managing your stress loads.
You're you're eating good high quality food You're managing an adequate level of supplements You're hydrating all of these things to then do the shit you want to do because what was important to you I would imagine, you know in 2012 is different to what it was in 2018 Which is different to what it is now and potentially next year, right? So how is that? process for you kind of And I would love to hear like what your frameworks are. How does that build a framework for you to go? Okay. Well, this is what's important to me.
This is what I've learned. This is how I want to coach people Long question. Sorry just ruminate on for a second. Silence is a good thing in podcast by the way. Yeah, okay so This is a realization that I've had lately and why I have so much clarity actually because I Don't typically start with people with oh, let's get you in the gym Let's get you drinking water and and touching your feet on the earth. I don't I don't typically start with like let's fix your sleep Yes, they're like huge levers to pull but ultimately I can't help myself and I'm like Who are you?
What are you working towards? What else has gone on outside of the training? aspect of your current like objectives and And what I've found is people either will set like an arbitrary Objective and when you dig a little bit deeper, it's like why are you doing that? I spoke about this recently where it's like I would just go and do a mini sprint triathlon And I did it because I just wanted to accomplish something and it was hard and I'm like, that's cool but then when I spent a year running and I had gut issues
now knowing that Annihilating yourself with running and causing bulk inflammation in your body can be detrimental to your gut lining Yeah, that's what I was like. Oh Why am I actually why do I care about running? Yeah, what do I really care about and then I had to be like well if I stop and think about who I am and what I care about what I realized too is I've had a wake-up call with with the way I've been conditioned and programmed to think and then I'm like Where am I building from because depending on how far back you strip the conditioning?
school Kindergarten parenting like this the structure of society itself if you sit here right now unless you're aware of those things you're most likely going to tell me oh, I've got this goal, but it's built on this foundation of sand because You just have you've surrendered Your creative potential to think about who you are and what you really want to achieve You've surrendered that to like the external system that goes Hey, this is what's available to you in this moment and based on who you are in your skill set right now Like people make decisions
from that point So I personally have had to strip things right back relearn who I am and that's part of the journey because it's been physical But it's also been like emotional identity level stuff. It's been a spiritual pursuit it's like those things sort of came before the physical healing for me and I know that seems wild to strip back that many layers, but I even got to the point where I was like, okay I'm raw here like My I've shed my skin. It's time to build from the base and then I'm like, can I go another layer deeper?
And I can but I won't get into that. You can if you want. No, it's not a very effective State of mind to operate from I mean it is when you expand out and you experience it But it took me 12 months to sit in that but I think that like that's something we spoken about a lot is like Like a lot of the time you'll be talking about something. I'll be like, you know I'll ask the like is this useful or is this helpful and you have the feedback loop built in to be like,
yeah Yeah, this is what I need right now and you know Some people are willing or ready to go on a 12-month like yeah capitulation of self. Whereas some people aren't so it's like, okay Like one of the questions I like to ask is like, okay. What do you need right now? What do you need right now? You don't have and like the way you started this podcast was like, okay We have everything we need Inside us. It's all it's only about you know, digging deep deep to a point where we can Articulate and utilize
those capacities and whether it be mentors podcast books these things help I like to think create space for the awareness to go deep Yeah, yeah, and and and I think even though it was uncomfortable and I was like, what's the point of this? I I wish I didn't rush through some of those moments that were hard Relief and wisdom sat right on the other side of the most painful point of of that part of the journey And that's why I was like, I'm really fucking uncomfortable. I'm really disorientated. I need to ground myself What does
that look like and I used the basic shit that all that, you know Like they all say the same thing just be present get in touch with nature Enjoy the the energy of the people around you like all those things I just use those to bring me that back down to earth and I use them to anchor myself To to where I needed to be to then build out again But I was like I never built from that baseline from that base level. I never had the chance to stop and think like If I build
something and ten years down the track I'm like why the fuck did I just do this that I just waste ten years of my life. Yeah I have had that a little bit when in past in the past would say Like a my air conditioning career like that was really good that did serve me. It's made me who I am That's fine, but I potentially could have been a little bit further ahead if I knew who I was back then but this is like Further ahead by whose metrics right why society's metrics right because like
you and like I've seen this and like deciding what's important to you I think is a fundamental part of getting to maybe it's our age or like getting to being an adult or A father or whatever aspect of it fundamentally understanding what you want what you value what's important to you not because Your partner or society or colleagues or your friends think that that's important to you But because it's actually important to you. You would would have read Plato's allegory of the cave at some point. So essentially dive into our centers and stuff is like
and I'll butcher it because it's a little bit more expansive than this but essentially it's like The idea is people are living in a cave and all they see of the outside world is a reflection on the back wall of the Cave so it's only what the people or the the world that's happening right in the entrance of the cave that's what they see and that's what they picture or envision the world to be and when we Come out of the cave and actually experience the world for what it is like for me that self-awareness
That's being able to go or shit I know next to nothing and that's a good thing and life life There isn't actually a you know a divine reason or meaning to all of this. That's a good thing now I get to decide what's important to me what I value, you know, what behaviors I'm gonna gonna gonna lean into and what? What decisions I'm gonna make based off what I now know and then it just ends up being a level of transcendence where? your process through aircon mechanic to To someone that comes in silicones the things
are leaking in my gym to to coach to like, you know Philosopher dad now, which we love Like for me that's just been their transferable skills that allow you to step from one to the other Right, and I think that one of the things that like I'm fortunate enough I talk to people a lot about what's important to them and where they're going and what they do and And what they want most and it starts out. I want to lose weight. I want to get stronger I want to perform but when we break down into
the why and what is actually important to you we realize that most of us just want to Want most mostly the same things are always very very before is like to love and be loved to feel valued and wanted and to be able to develop and grow in a in a way that is both challenging and Rewarding, right? So I think you can look at your last decade and go I've wasted it all you can go This has been an important. This is part of my story These are chapters that I had to go through to get to here.
Would I have liked to get there faster? Absolutely, but you didn't so bad luck Here we are now and all we can worry about is now and you also mentioned before the the future version of you You're waiting for that You have been waiting for that and you're kind of getting your head out of that space now He's like past doesn't exist future doesn't exist. I love the analogy of like the present is just the page of the book You're reading right until you finish that page. Nothing else exists before or after Like now you can look at your life and go shit share.
What am I gonna do next? Which I think is exciting Tell me about pw world Well, it ties in perfect by the way, perfect. Um wallace summary. Do you like the segue? Yeah, you just don't let me sorry I did just don't let me say anything. That's like absolute, you know Like I wasn't I don't mean to say like I regret the last 10 years of my life but But it's like the process of personal development is like I could have condensed that time a little bit more to be like Oh, yeah, but then but then at the same time you would be different now.
Yeah So what's the etymology of those things? Look it up I just bought an etymology the real the real thing. It's about that thick love that. Yeah love that so I can't google it anymore But you could just chatty g it Well conversation for later, maybe but the the language is important the language we use how we talk to ourselves the narratives We we construct are important. So Now pw world is changing that pw universe. Well a big part of it is language and and just that's been one of my favorite things when Mentors guide
me through or they pick me up on something that i've said and it could be as little like it happened The other day I said you go this guy said to me What are you most proud of this year? And I said i'm just proud and he goes stop. What do you mean? You're just proud You like you see how that lacks like any sort of weight and conviction in what you're saying So lots of little language patterns like that. I think um I'm building into my coaching when I when someone says something to me i'll pick i'll pick him up on that and So that's when i've realized.
Yeah, the personal training is what I want to do But it's also it feels like I want to be doing more than just personal training And maybe there's a lot of personal trainers out there that do this kind of thing But coming back to the direction and the purpose thing and then what you just went through. I honestly think You're not going to get there unless you step away from the noise and disconnect from The environment around you that's pulling you in in lots of different directions because unless you're aware You'll be used as a
resource by whatever has the most powerful magnetic pull to you in that moment And that will be an unconscious unconscious thing that you end up putting your your effort and energy into and i'm like well a really good way to Step away from that pool is to go out into nature like I just did recently I went into a hut out in the woods It was off grid. There was electricity there, but I didn't use it. I just used a candle when the sun went down I went to bed. It was dark and when the
sun came up I woke up and it's like I cooked over the fire I did all these things to strip back to simplify to remove the noise Like I didn't fucking use google or chat gpt to be like, hey i'm gonna do Help me build out this goal structure. And what does my next year look like? How could you predict what things will pan out like? I just actually realized i'm like You're not getting you're not getting a true version of what you're projecting It needs to come from who you are and yeah, you can
then input that into it later But then you don't fucking need to and so the the idea and the philosophy around this is I think People now are reaching for shit like that because it's so convenient But and it's a pretty gnarly view. It's a pretty um What do you call it? Like who are you gonna die on? Yeah unfiltered opinion. I think I don't think that human Biology and the human mind is compatible with the systems that we're using to build our lives So i'm talking like this next phase of how I build my business I'm, not gonna have a phone i'm gonna have a paper diary.
I'll have a phone but it's like a knockout, right? You don't call me back. Anyways, well, i'll probably will start because I won't be watching like, you know fight videos on instagram But um it's really doing my best to strip things back because I honestly do feel like I've outsourced too much of my wisdom and my magic as a human and whether that's supplement i explained to you before Myself included but a lot of people they'll reach for melatonin To help them sleep and they but they'll be on their phone in bed And then they
will get up and they won't go outside and touch their feet on the earth and and all the things that support A healthy circadian rhythm they won't do that They'll reach for a melatonin and then like you can see this thing that it just perpetuates and you'll just add the next thing Add the next thing I've been caught in that loop It's too easy to reach out and to grab something that outsources what you have in you that can help you in the moment So like what i'm doing in pw world is like, where are you doing that simplicity simplicity strip it back?
But it's like if we go away and we're out in the woods together and we're going through this Leave the phone in the car. We'll leave it at home. Yeah, and it's a pen and paper and it's a fucking conversation yeah, yeah, and but I think it's like Like I would agree with you like to a point, right? but there's also an element of like these things are when used correctly are just tools in our toolbox to potentially enhance and challenge and question The assumptions and beliefs and biases that we have right? If you and
I just went and spent a month in the woods together like we'd probably cut all to keep warm and all of that kind of stuff, but Outside of that we would I would imagine we would explore some things and we would challenge each other's beliefs but there would be a point where we would potentially fall into a um into a like echo chamber of beliefs and ideas right of like This is the best thing ever people need to do this you know all of those kind of things which there's an element of that which is
helpful, but there's also an element of like Well, maybe the answer isn't a hut in the woods Right and you like that like the segue I sent him a youtube video That's the answer is not a hut in the woods so that you could watch when he got back from the hut in the woods which all the time but um because like i've done similar like similar things over the last couple of years a couple of days away with Banksy and some books and my journal and You know like while you were in hut in the woods.
I was in Perth living. Uh, you know, pseudo existence the same here but just in different spaces, which was really interesting, but I think that The absolutest conversation is like like Chat gbt for example is not good or bad. It just is we can choose how we Utilize it and how we rely on it and how we lean on it and yes, it can be a crutch but it can also be a brilliant tool to Like challenge things explore things learn things in a way that like you were saying before that you've set yours up
to talk to you Like you're a tradie, right because it allows to simplify or not necessarily simplify but change the language which then allows you to Absorb it in a different way Supplements same they're a tool that we can use that if you know We live in alaska and we're not getting any vitamin d then that can help us Right, like but when we use as a crutch, it's not helpful. So I guess the Like do you have like a a framework or a feedback loop that allows you to go? Well, is this actually moving the needle or is it not?
Yeah, and I think this is the hill i'm dying on yeah Reduce reduce reduce. Yeah when when you're talking it's almost like oh, yeah, but it is useful But it's like as soon as you do that if you fucking write something And it's a thought that dropped in and it's a blog or it's an email you want to send and it's a true True reflection of who you are and what you want and then you go i'm just going to put that in chat because it just fucking Punctuates it for me. It's way easier You've just supplemented your own opportunity to learn how to fucking type more efficiently.
Yeah fair like like Let's just say time is money, right? Someone said that to me recently maybe Yeah, and I was making a coffee at home and our coffee set up So it's a mission it takes ages and someone said to me time is money and i'm like, huh? I just realized that that is a problem that I have is doing my best to make it more efficient make it faster It's like that fisherman story. I always say yeah, but The guy who's on the beach fishing love this you're catching a fish Um to take
home to his family to cook it so they can eat dinner together and then the next day is out there fishing catching fish and this entrepreneur guy comes up to him and says Hey, you realize that if you um bought a boat you'd be able to catch lots of lots of fish And then you could like sell the fish and make more money And then you could buy another boat so you catch more fish and he's like you could just build this empire And then the guy's like well, why would I do that? And he's
like well so you could go sit on the beach and do nothing and catch fish and give it to your family Yeah, and like I know i'm i'm it's it's i'm generalizing there. Oh, but like that's a built brilliant parable Well, it is and i'm like it's so easy to convince yourself. Oh, yeah, but it is helpful. It is how i'm like No, but it tells the story but then like one of the questions I asked you the other day was like to what end It's like okay If that fisherman can go this is what
I want and this is what's important to me Then he should be out like there should be a feedback loop built in there where he's like, okay This is all I need to do. I don't need to do that, right? But if the goals and this is why I think understanding what's important to you on what you want You're right What why you're understanding what you want what's important to you is like the number one thing because if you understand what you want then you can just reverse engineer how to get there right like there's
um, and this is probably you know aligns with what you were talking about before about not knowing what the next step was as you Were going through your journey is like there's three types of goals. There's the goals that What do you want you already have? It's like what do you need to keep doing to have those things, right? there's the um The goals that it's like what do you want that you don't already have and what are the steps to get there? You can clearly articulate what the steps are. Yeah, and then there's the the good stuff which is What's what do you want that both scares and excites you at the same time?
And what are the first two steps together? You don't you can't you can't know all of the steps because otherwise it would be the middle goal but what are the what are the steps and for you it was I would imagine And putting words in your mouth tell me if i'm wrong would be that like um ascendance and transcendence of Who you are what you're capable of what your life looks like to allow it to be more Maybe simple is the word but also more More rich with more depth because you understand fundamentally what's important to you why are you doing things?
And you're moving the needle in a way that like fills you up and makes you want to keep rocking up to work Whatever that looks like alignment Alignment clearance alignment and and and I don't think that's possible to Truly be in coherence with your heart and your soul If you're if you're building based on all the distractions that I was talking about before That's why I think is like the less noise and the further down and the more the more layers you can strip back It's really good to build from that place, but I think
People are defaulting to the conveniences of how things are now and and I just don't want people to bypass that and it's going to get stronger and stronger that pull to Devolt to technology to tell us who the fuck we are and what we want Yeah, I feel like that pool's getting stronger to the point where i've done all the same shit you're doing right now I'm, like yeah, but I can justify it because it does this calculation quicker for me It's like so you can do what catch fucking fishing, you know, like yeah, you can catch fish.
Yeah Why can't you build a life and a business simplified because I I honestly don't think That I think things are getting more and more complicated and it's making things harder. Whereas people are like all this technology is making things easier And I think it's over complicating things because i've been at the spearhead of it but I think it's but like I think it's both and I think it's like Like I can use let's say like we use train heroic for our programming here, right? it means that every Time someone comes into train. There's a feedback loop of we get readiness data.
We get lifting data. We get like adherence data That is a feedback loop for us as coaches and our members And then over a period of time it's data that then we can either use or choose to use or not use to then influence our decisions right tracking food same thing like we like Tracking your money in your bank account same thing. It's like the more data we have data isn't necessarily a good thing It is dependent on what you use it for and why you why you? Why you want it but more data gives
us more information to make better decisions if your if your goal is really simple And it's just to you know, hang out at the beach catch fish Um, and it's a very simplified view of our existence but if that's your goal then sweet, but if your goal is to you know, build something that doesn't already exist or to um Or to transcend your current level of understanding and capacity Then we need to find ways I think to lean on our allies to help us understand what we Don't know and and to to shine a light
on what our maybe our biases are our limit self-limiting beliefs and things like that And yes chatty g is used more as more as a crutch than anything, but I can say ask like Like i've set mine up to email me What it thinks my blind spots are every week, so it sends me. So three big rocks for me are family self-health wealth, um, like phil like philosophical understanding of who I am and And vertice so I get it to send me a list of what it thinks my blind spots are each week Based off the questions i've asked it, right?
Um, or I can say hey, i'm really struggling understand why? You know people rocking up lights bugging me. Can you ask can you ask me 10 questions that help me like explore that feeling? Yeah, that that can be a helpful tool. But if I use it in lieu of human conversation like this or if I use it in lieu of the You know self-awareness and journaling practice that I that I do intimately then it's not useful So I think like for me the simplicity is is this helpful or is it's not if it is sweet keep doing it or?
Find a way to do better and if it's not fuck it off and then then we have the like you know The because I like I would agree with you on the most part on the simplicity aspect Especially from a health well-being standpoint. It's like eat good food drink enough water sleep enough move move often enough Pick some heavy things up make sure your spine's moving in all different directions and we're pretty good Yeah, get your heart pumping a little bit like from a training standpoint if we tick those boxes most weeks You're probably going to be okay Thoughts.
Sorry for talking so much. Love it. Don't stop apologizing I mean, this is your this is your pod there's two things I want to say You talking about like hey, tell me what my blind spots are. It just reinforces what feels right for me good, which is We're fucking outsourcing our own intuition and that scares me That scares me to be like, I don't know what my blind spots are It's like as soon as you ask chat to say one of my blind spots it'll give you the fucking perfect answer Maybe but then you're not
going to flex that muscle or you're not going to train that muscle of using reflection With your own capabilities as a human you that you have access to you outsource it to technology and then not only that The technology is saving all your data too, which is like another discussion But it all ties. I don't think anyone's important enough for it to matter about saving our data But that's a conversation for another day. We'll see But like like I have feedback loops built into my life like this conversation is a feedback loop to try and
unlock some blind spots Right, like I don't think that i'm necessarily right about the chatty g thing I just know that I can use it as a tool to help. Yeah enhance or Optimize or like, you know simplify potentially my life and I can ask it about like plato's allegory of the cave And it gives me a relatively simple or I can you know, find an old translation and read that But like like or I can write a page in my journal to ask me why i'm feeling a bit flat off Feeling resistance on this thing.
All of these things are just tools to build that self-awareness um, but if we You know if we just rely on this one thing to like, you know This this holds all of the information I use it for everything. Obviously, that's not helpful I still i'm still just saying I I still just see it like it might not even be the case of it's used It is fucking useful and I think that's the problem. I think it's too useful. Yeah, maybe I think it's too useful I think it's disconnecting us from the core of who
we are and that's what i'm not liking And when I get like on the flip side, could it be in like is is it possible that there's a an outcome where it's enhancing? And shining a light on who on the core of who we are yes and or but I like that you said yes and instead of yes, but And then I said yes, but I don't know how else to But I think that that feedback loops in like that's that's a helpful thing to like explore right? Yes, and or yes, but like you can
tell like Because fundamentally you can think i'm wrong Which is great because then we're challenging and yeah, we can talk about that as well More wrong more wrong than you are because otherwise you would hold the same belief system I do. Yeah, which I think I think is a good thing. Like I don't want to believe like I don't want to agree with you on everything. Like I want to be able to have that like friction. Yes, you do Uh, maybe if you're more right, I believe with you on things Maybe Okay, so what I was gonna say, yeah, sorry What was I gonna say?
I'm not apologizing because i'm sorry I'm, just apologizing because this is your podcast and I want to I want to listen to you. I love it. This is perfect. Uh, Uh, I don't okay Because of how useful it actually is. That's the very thing that's pushing me away from it I just don't think It's almost like there's this book i'm reading at the moment. It's called the four Arguments for the elimination of television. It's elite. It couldn't have landed in my lap at a better time And this guy wrote it in 1978 And he pretty much just talks about why television Isn't going to serve humanity.
All the good movies have come out since 1978 though Well, not to mention everything else is that technology provides us but that was his point and like all the things he's talking about Which was what are they? Let me try and think of it. What are the four? You're getting like a curated reality It's mediated. It's not it's not true. But when you watch it every day your brain's like, oh, this is what's real in the world But it's not it's a curated representation of something they're conveying to you I want to let you say the four but I really want to like jump in and like Question that right?
Like don't worry about it now. Carry on. Let's hold on to that thought the second one is Oh fuck. These might not be in order. That's all right. It's it's a it's it doesn't operate without big institutions Um funding it because it's it's an expensive operation. So you're getting you're getting um controlled uh distribution of information So it's a netflix it's not it's not compatible with our biology so the actual technology itself because we're stagnant The light coming out of it the emfs because I mean there wasn't wi-fi and bluetooth around back then but that's all shit that I think he saw coming and then there's another one but How do I get into this?
Oh, I think so. This is what it is. His point is like He doesn't think That tv should just be used as a tool. He thinks it can't be used as a tool and it shouldn't exist It feels weird to have this opinion and I know but it's not it's not a weird opinion, right? Like I would I could say that elements of that are fundamentally true, right? Like, you know, there's is say fox or sky news, you know, does that add a At the end of the day, is that a net positive or net negative to society?
Like, you know most news stations would I would say net negative, right? but if I take like, you know a movie like I don't know come and see which is like a war movie from 1985 or something along those lines like does that like if you watch that film are you a fundamentally different person afterwards because of what? The journey you go through when you watch it the the experiential learning Not experiential learning the I mean, it's like you're experiencing it through through the character's eyes, right? So you get a You get to go on
a journey and you can say this for any of the any incredible cinema You get to go on a journey to experience things that you wouldn't have otherwise experienced you get to see different perspectives You get to see different characters you get to see You know character development character arcs you get to see people fall and rise and experience life in different ways so I can get to the end of a movie like that and go like like that's like rocked me and you know fundamentally changed who I am as a person, you know in
a way that allows me to go you know, like let's use a more recent example, there's there was a Um, I can't remember what it's called. There's a um documentary on what's happening in palestine at the moment Came out you know a couple of months ago and it's like You just watch it and you're just like how like how can humans do this? to one another Television In a positive way can shine light on these atrocities and these things and show you these experiences, right? Television in a negative loop can show you the propaganda as mass media Explanation of what's happening.
Yeah, two very different stories Same tool we can we get we have the capacity Uh, you know if we have the free will which is another conversation If we have the capacity to be like I can choose which side of things I believe in or believe in or choose to Absorb or consume because I think what we consume is a massive problem across the board whether it be books or Television or movies or whatever we can choose which one of those we decide to lean into or buy into or you know my belief system is
obviously like I want to see I want to I use television or cinema to experience things I wouldn't have otherwise experienced Yeah, or at least watch other people experience those things. Whereas you're like, well, none of it's helpful Whereas i'm like well, I can watch this movie and go I learned some things or I was entertained I think there's nothing wrong with being entertained. Some people choose to do bloodies. I choose to watch cool movies I'm clipping that bit up and put it on repeat But like you understand what I mean, like I would imagine
there would have been exactly the same arguments at the town square you know, you know on the on the painted porch in Athens, you know of Socrates talking about books being the thing and then a guy on the other side being like books are gonna ruin your life because they teach you how to think they create a Systemized framework for you to have to you know have to look at this as go. This is the only way to think which we know that books allow us and it's an exploration into someone's life work or someone's
story or you know The depths of human suffering and connection which is like it's just another tool To go on That but that's my feeling of it right like I'm I guess and I probably watched I definitely watch too much TV, right? That's what I love cinema for that reason. Yeah, like You know Granted love actually kind of sucks But I got to sit with a couple of my best friends in the world and we watched love actually and you know We talk shit. We laugh like we get connection in a different way I Think that enhances my life Agree, I agree with that.
So just to be clear It's not to say these aren't useful tools and I know they are I just don't think we have I don't I think we're losing the grip on on the The ability to like control our focus. Is that a collective thing though? like yeah, cuz I cuz I could look like I could speak to the 20 people I spend the most time with and I would imagine that the majority of them would have a fair assessment of like, you know Do you do too much or not enough of this? Do you lean on chat to be t too much or not enough?
Do you lean on? Photoshop for the designers, right? Do you lean on like for you is like the world you're getting out of do you lean on? You know, is there one tool you just use too much? Is that is that not helpful to fix air con? Should you be using this other tool? You're like, well, no, this is the tool that helps me fix air cons And this is the outcome I want. Does that make sense? Like yeah Yeah, and I think my point stands I what I'm getting at is When we're misusing tools and and they're all great things to use like agreed some of the I watched a movie recently What's it called?
I don't know but it's It's about a gymnast that hurts himself. He has everything going for him. He hurts himself over the peaceful warrior. Yeah Yeah, so I watched that there are no ordinary moments. Okay Socrates, okay Phenomenal film, oh, well, that's the movie I watch I'm like I got something out of that But then it's easy for me bring a book - yes, I've disordered it. Damn it one around it. I got it on illegally Why be in the Navy when you could be a pirate Pirate Bay those are the days so so like
I do I do find a lot of use in it and they are tools but But if you look at the technology and how these platforms are Like so like ripping every little bit of attention grabbing it a little bit of attention that you have That's where I see the problem. Yeah, and sorry like yeah, it's it's pretty extreme to be like fuck it all off It's like unless you are using it to your advantage It's likely that you're getting taken advantage of and and it's like hey, if it's a free product, you're the product
If you don't know what the product is, yeah, you're the product Yeah, but when you what when you sit there and watch Netflix, you're like, I'm not being sold to or whatever You could be watching a movie that has like, you know, that's advertising something. Yeah, whether it's a Materialistic thing or a point of view or whatever like an agenda. Yeah, and so if no one's ever stripped Back the layers far enough to to know who they are at their core. That's where I think Great, you should consider Fucking it all off Yeah, only this is only speaking absolute sir.
Yeah, which is an absolute within itself just for a little while Yeah, but maybe that's the thing. It's like, okay. I'm gonna have a three-month period where I you know I only read books or a three-month period where I don't drink alcohol or a three-month period where I do this my challenge to that is We like you're a big believer of agency, correct? Like it's a fundamental belief system for you. It's a core value Like I think we and again this is this is my belief system I think we don't give ourselves and the people around us enough credit for The capacity to make good decisions.
Yeah, mostly because there's a lot of proof that we make sure decisions often but Rather than being like, okay Well, the only way for me to abstain for this is to abstain from it completely, you know Maybe maybe watching a couple of less hours of TV a week is the thing maybe you know Clocking off from Instagram at 6 p.m. Is the thing But then it's like if you find it's being a problem Then abstinence is probably the answer Potentially the answer as long as we create a feedback loop where we either replace it with
something that's helpful or useful And we have a we have really clear Arbitrary, but that's beside the point arbitrary rules that we then abide by and lean into to then live a better life Right because the question I asked before was like to what end like for me It's like, you know, enjoy the passing of time To love and be loved and to like to lean into the capacity for growth and development like they're kind of my three big rocks and If I'm doing those three things Drinking a good Negroni at 12 o'clock as part
of that every now and again All right, drinking a beer beer or two, you know with friends at a bar is like it doesn't get much better than that like walking to common folk bare feet with you today being like Like how goods tell life that we can do this on a Tuesday like that's part of that So I guess like watching a you know, watching a shitty Christmas movie with people I love that's a part of that but then we get to layer on and we have the agency to choose What do I want? Why do I want it?
And then we get to take action on that and I think fundamentally we believe in really similar things We're just coming at it from a different angle in terms of like, you know decide what you want get on Essentially decide what's important to you decide what you want and do the things that like Align to that Yeah, exactly. And I think the point I'm making is a lot of distractions like If it's not serving you it's a distraction to me Yeah, they they bump steer you away from truth like your truth from objective truth. However,
you want to look at truth it's gonna bump steer you away from that and like Yeah, I've pondered on getting to the end of life and going damn. I really just wasn't myself I wasn't able to to find what my truth was and I wasn't able to settle into who I was here to be and For me like it's pretty cool to look back to think I what I didn't have a great relationship with drinking. Yeah So I don't drink anymore. Yeah, I could have a drink now and I'll be sweet. I just it's a different story I just don't care to have even have a sip on Michael.
It's I'm just not fast but back in the day and This is why it's important to me to know who you wanted to find the direction I was drinking because like it was just how I grew up as part of the culture and I wasn't that confident in who I was of what I wanted So then I drink and then I would end up overdoing it and then I'd you know It's like a regret the shit that I would say or do the next day. Yeah, and now looking back I'm like fuck if I just had a little bit more Sureness and agency about myself.
I probably wouldn't have just defaulted to this shit to make me feel better in the moment Yeah, whereas it's like if I knew that I had something crystal clear to work towards it's pretty easy now - even for me It's like I'm dialed in with food. I'm dialed in with my consumption. I couldn't have a TV at home. I Don't fucking eat gluten once a week and it's a cheap meal and it might be like a cross on or something Yeah, but I'm pretty dialed in and it's easy now it's not like I'm I'm not
starving myself if you flex these muscles big from a like like a Capacity standpoint is like you're you're you weren't able to do that from the get-go, right? You're you it was a process in Understanding your belief system understanding your values understanding how those actions are how those things reflect in your actions and then essentially just like like sharpening the sword every day so that you get to a point where you're like if you like if you wanted to have a Couple of beers now you could and and you're not gonna be the same Paul that would have you know written himself off and you know Not move for six hours on a Sunday morning.
Now, you're like, well, the things are important to me Are you know agency good decisions family like connection all of those kind of things? But it's not necessarily like a beer isn't necessarily good or bad it just is and we the way we utilize it don't utilize it choose to Choose to experience it is the thing that Potentially and I know you don't find the same way is shift us more towards right or wrong or more towards good or bad yeah, so obviously the most efficient way to approach it would be like I'm okay with Watching a show.
Yeah, I'm okay with using social media I'm okay to have a beer and you do watch a show and then you go do your thing again Yeah, but it's when you watch a show another episode and there's fucking ads in between it and then you're like, oh they mentioned I just bought this thing. I didn't I can just see people lost and caught up in that and because I was and now I'm away from it I'm like, oh, I only I'm only able to have this meta view or this outside perspective now because I understand
Social engineering and how I developed as a person to get sucked into doing shit that I didn't looking back I'm like, yeah That wasn't me and and now and I always admired people who were just on their path no matter what it was if like it was in high school some dude was just into something that no one else was into and If he just did that thing also is like fucker like that But I would never do it because I got caught up in the social anxiety of like, okay What if someone doesn't like me or doesn't doesn't respect my decision or a thing?
Yep. When was there a like Was there a moment or a time where you were like you felt that shift and if there was what what like book? Did you read podcast? Who did you talk to? What are you looking for? Creative act I saw it. It's over there Rick Rubin, yeah, but but like this started happening for you way before that playbooks for two years old indeed But that that consolidated at all. Yeah taught me how to be that guy in high school that did things because you wanted to do them So the seeds were planted and I had other people like I've got a friend mentor.
He's a kinesiologist. He's a healer He's a super wise guy and one day he said to me He was doing a muscle test on me and he was filming me and he just goes Because you know how kinesiology works like muscle testing. He said tell me what you love and I was like And I was so stumped and I was like fuck I don't even know how to articulate what I'm into yeah I love it's like that's a cool moment though to be able to look back at that Yeah but like that's a little moment
for me leading up to the book where I go I haven't considered that shit and I say I love my family because everyone else says I love my family and that's fine I'll fucking love my family I do and so did everyone but also Where's the agency to be like I'm fucking gonna decide to exist in this way and I'm gonna build my reality based on who I am and and what my algorithm in my mind and my life experience points at not like You just do it because like I said before that Everything around you wants to use you how it wants.
That's just like taking a bit more taking complete control Which you I don't think you can do if you're half in half out I really think you got to strip back the layers Decide and it will probably change as you go but you need to be honest and that takes that takes your stripping back to butt Naked sometimes. Yeah, like I like the analogy of like your operating system rise like, you know, you're like I've posted a story on this the other day is like it's the worst advice we can give someone is to just
be yourself like what like what like initially because like right now you're a you know, you're a potentially a Unevolved version of yourself Yeah What we should be doing is we should be peeling back those layers to understand what it is that is most important to you What it is that you believe in what you value so that then everything that we do say You know think about consume aligns with those things and then all we're doing is just consistently leveling up evolving transcending whatever word you want to use that version of ourselves to be
something someone that you can be proud of that you you know, can have the level of Confidence and self-esteem and efficacy around to be like I am proud of who I am Fundamental belief system for me. I like I am immensely proud for who I am But I'm also like hungry to continue to become who I'm becoming right like that's a Venn diagram that for me you know like both of those conflicting things are really important because then the things that I do and to like loops fully background to the start of the conversation the
things that I want to work and walk into vertice every day and make a meaningful contribution to the Space the experience members in a way that if I was to do that every day in ten years this place looks completely different Yeah, I still have the blue wall the blue floor. We might still have a logo on the wall, but Fundamentally this place is completely different. I want to look at myself and my development in exactly the same way. Yes I'm gonna potentially keep layering on the shit that I love to do drink coffee Lift
hang out with you read good books like argue about shit that fundamentally doesn't really matter but helps me consolidate my belief systems and my actions So he's essentially saying that in any given moment What what's being reflected in that moment is just a a reflection of who you are in that moment Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, and then that will change as time goes. Yeah Yeah, like before we we went for coffee before and the question question was like Was like who are you and it's like I'm dad. I was like, yeah, but as I've been a dad who I was like Well, I'm husband.
Okay outside of being a husband who I like, you know, I'm a coach. I'm a you know, I'm a I'm a boss. I'm a someone that likes training and it's like I find it fascinating to be able to peel back the self for lack of a better term like and understand and zoom out and you know, like See all of the layers of that of like I am my beliefs I am the the things that I value that I tell myself I value right and then it's like the conversation of okay well, am I and
this is probably the shift that you made that made the biggest difference is like am I an active participant in my life or Am I just going with whatever the world tells me to do? Right and I think our growth As humans comes from the moment when we're like, okay I am both an active participant in my life and I'm also observing the thoughts ideas things that I have from a place that allows me to make Make judgments the wrong word make an assessment on those things to be like that's a useful thought. I'm going
to utilize that That's a you know, that's an idea that I think would be beneficial Yeah, and for me it's like okay if I'm doing those things and I'm utilizing the the people around me the environments I spend time in the tools that I have available to me to enhance my active participation in my life Which is just another word for agency I guess and then you know But also the observation of like my beliefs and my thoughts and things like that then I can make better decisions to live more fundamentally In a space that is both this is exactly who I am, but it's also encompasses an unknown of who am I becoming?
Yeah, it to me. That's a good pendulum like an allergy to you. It's always swinging back and forth I mean the present moment and then what you're building and it's like you don't really just exist Yeah, yeah And but there's so much value in what you're saying before of just reducing things to a point where you're like be where your feet are Yeah, but you can't just go I'm just gonna go hang out in the woods because this is like how life works There's consist kids constant moving if you just went sat in the woods
eventually at least be like dude Are you gonna come home or what right there needs to be that element of like well, I'm building these things to support my family to create space for For for you to be the best version of himself, right? Like if you were to just go well I'm not gonna worry about the present moment of the the future and I'm not gonna worry about the past I'm only gonna worry about the present moment. There's part of that that isn't useful for the life that you want your kids to have access to Right.
So it's like you have to you have to consider it for sure. Yeah. Yeah, but but then it's it's the fisherman thing It's almost like right now. I like getting up Having a coffee on the grass in the Sun the kids are crawling on us and Lisa and I are talking. Yeah, perfect I like I like doing that and when when I was getting up and going to do air conditioning I was like, oh one day we just like, you know get to that point. I'm like, this is the thing I've I've decided to do
personal training now and run these nature emotions and I'm like that gives me the opportunity to do that Yeah, but I didn't know that I wanted to do this shit until I fucking sat down I was like, what do I want? Who am I? What do I value now? am I gonna get there and and I just couldn't do that when I was so fucking busy with two kids and Working I had a neck and itching business and I I was you know, like the kids and then I think yeah busy boy and it's like you never give yourself the opportunity to To tap into like what really matters.
So I Do I do that by going to the woods? It's it's an analogy But it's it's also like when I come home and I'm sitting there on the ground on the grass having the coffee I can be in that moment now a bit a bit a bit different - I'm sitting here and I'm like Oh fucking what have I got to do to get more of this? Yeah, it's like it's fucking here Yeah, you don't just sit there and be like I want more Yeah, and that's it. There's so much value to both sides
of thinking right is like you shouldn't like there's an element of like Oh, I shouldn't have to go to the woods three days to realize that I could like being with my family But there's also like sometimes with all of the chaos of our existence going to the woods three days Allows me to distill what is most important and if we can live in both of those worlds at the same time You go what do I need right now? and I go well actually just need to sit in the grass with my family and have a coffee this morning and like Like this is perfect.
Like I can't remember who's quite it is, but it's like tell me your definition of paradise is like this morning with a This morning drinking coffee with her is is a you google it but or you can just assume that someone said at some point We don't need to know the answers, right? but I think the fundamentally breaking all of this down this whole conversation is like Understand what you want what's important to you and then like try and build your life around those things Yeah and go and pause nature immersions Well, yes do that pencil pencil me in do that.
All right, you're in well run a group one Cuz a lot of people are keen I think a lot of people are caught up in like the buzz and the chaos and it's a lot it's and it's a lot It's only getting so there is a lot of interest. So I'll definitely put it out there and first on the list, but Just to just to add to what you're saying as well There's a million ways to get to what I'm talking about. There's so many ways I have used these ways Yeah myself and it just
fucking makes sense to me As soon as I went out to heart in the woods My feet hit the ground I sat there and I put everything away and I was just soaking I could hear birds I could hear cicadas. There was like grass crunching under my feet and I was just like, hmm wow, like I dropped into a completely different state of being and in that moment, I was like I'm bringing some people away who need this it's cool and I fucking knew that and because I'd pondered like how do I want to How do I want to make money?
How do I want to build my life? I don't want to spend time with the family not not being a tradesman. It's again It's a tool to get me to this point. I you know, it's it's there if I need to go back to it But there's other ways to learn the boats man. That's the boats. Yeah, pretty much. It's sort of what I've done. So, you know three tools of a bridge And then and then all of a sudden it's like I am I'm having more and more of these moments Yeah, and it does it does actually force me to make it happen as well not force me It it's like it's it's an encounter pressure.
Yeah. Yeah, and and Again, I just it's hard to when you're so busy. It's hard to think of of what's true to you Quite quiet a noise. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And like like I said before it's um that pools being Felt more and more and and I'm just like, oh, yeah I need to lean into this when you have the space to actually like exhale and listen like you feel the pool more Like if you were if you were just like putting air cons on the roof all day You'd be thinking and listening and
consuming and stuff, but you probably wouldn't have the space to have these These realizations or cultivate the understanding in a way that you have now When I was out in the woods, I I was I just fucking kept reaching for my phone I'm like, it's so interesting I don't have it here and then that went away after first day and then I could sink in and then I did one more day And then I was like it needs to be four days Because the second day yeah, I went for a hike and then that took
up a bit of like stimulation Yeah, I was like I only had have really half a day to sit there and probably ponder I'm like, I want to be bored to me good shit always happens when I'm bored You can't your brain works differently and when I have a pen and paper You process the information that drops in completely differently compared to like if you just record it digitally and then can never write as fast You can think yeah, but that's that's what I'm getting at. That's the baby We're not supposed to that's but that's
why I like love journaling so much is because you you're writing a sentence and you have to Fucking bounce on this ended three or four times while you're writing it. Yeah feedback loop. Yeah, mine's horrible though I'll edit a sentence before I finish the thought Every first draft is shit. Well, I'll just do voice notes. Yeah. Yeah, I got it. I got a voice note folder I've got about 200 voice notes in there every time you put a voice note in your chat I'm like, oh fuck now after I sit and listen to it, which is a positive thing, right?
but then like I like reading words and like but then it's a language thing and you might have You know riffed on something in voice that you haven't can't say, you know the same way in text and yeah, it's so interesting I think the free-flowing like like Like moment of just pure conscious consciousness and nothing's coming through nothing's being edited I'm liking that and I love it when other people do it. Yeah, I'm fucking so burnt out by Little like one minute videos on on like one minute reels that dislike pack too much in and
they're hopping around it And it's like and a bit of that has also made me realize I'm like when when our kids are watching TV and stuff That's there from a very young age their brains being shaped to like Process information that's so fast-paced lots of fucking colors Which he lines in between see I just show my girls like 1940 cinema So it's all black and white and you know, there's this slow over-the-top acting But like but again, this is like there's different variations of all of these things which I think things important You probably should go see a family or something, right?
Yeah, but yeah, I think like your growth has been immense I'm very proud of you. So good from you and I'm really excited to see the growth of PW world see what you cultivate because I know like the best thing is it's coming from a place of like Authenticity of love and of a desire to make the world a better place, which I think fundamentally is What you're here for what we're all here for why billionaires shouldn't exist and all of this all of the other aspects of this Thank you. I appreciate it's nice to hear that from you.
So pleasure as always anymore for anymore Anything to tell the people nah, that's about it. Go read the creative act phenomenal book Have a good day
