S1E08 · Keira Wills

Hey guys, welcome to week 8 of the podcast. Today I spoke to Kira Wills. Now, Kira's story is one of resilience and a couple of setbacks and an ability to keep working through three knee reconstructions. So, for all of the athletes and humans who have been through long-term injuries or are currently going through a long-term injury or repeat injury, this episode will be of much value to you. So, enjoy. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day. I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests.

Hey guys, welcome to the Virtus Performance Podcast. This is week 8. I'm sitting here with Kira Wills. Kira, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Nice to be here. Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about what you do and your journey up to this point. So, I am in my professional life. I'm a teacher. I'm also a netball coach. I have previously been a netball player. I'm currently back in playing, which I'm sure we'll talk about. Awesome. So yeah, there's a couple of different layers to me, but yeah, teaching in netball is pretty much a life for me.

Awesome. Previously a player. Tell me about the journey. It's been a long road. Yeah, so I was playing quite elite to netball when I was younger, so I was in 15 state teams, 17 state teams, Australian squads, 19 state teams, but unfortunately came across three near-real constructions within the space of two years. Far out. Yeah, that pretty much put a dent in my netball career for a little while and has only just pretty much come back. So yeah, it's been a while. Tell me about the first knee, the first time you did it. What happened? So I was, I think I just finished playing in an under 19 state team.

I had, I was just playing normal Wednesday night, playing V&L. Well, it was the old competition, old state league competition, and just doing what I normally do and got taken out. My leg pretty much got run through. Far out. So it was kind of, it's an unusual one to do, you know, it's not your common twisting and landing and things like that. So there pretty much wasn't anything I could do. Yeah. For that one. So that was, I was in the middle of year 12. So I was, I wasn't even 18 at the time. I still 17 and playing quite a high level and yeah, first knee was, was done.

I pretty much did everything in my knee. There wasn't much left over to be honest. What was the kind of the first thing that ran through your mind, if you can remember back that far? Oh, it was more, you know, my state teams and things like that. Like I was in the midst of it all. I was in Australian squads and all that sort of stuff. So I was actually only a couple of weeks from going up to Canberra to train at the AIS. So when that happens, it all sort of comes in and yeah. Why me?

Yeah, pretty much. You just think why, why has this happened and how did it happen and all that sort of jazz. So, and then pretty quickly I moved on to, it actually wasn't terrible timing in terms of it kind of gave me a bit of a focus for year 12 as well. So, you know, I could focus on that, but I was always able to manage things anyway, but yeah, kind of put a little dent in that one, unfortunately. How'd you go, how'd you go with your rehab, I guess, from doing it to having surgery while you're doing year 12?

Did you kind of tick all the boxes? Yeah, I was pretty good actually. I was seeing a physio up in the Olympic park, so I was having to travel for a distance. Mum and dad were taking me up there and, but my physio was amazing. He was incredible and he got, gave me plenty of feedback and got me on the right track, which was good. So I was pretty good. I was pretty diligent in my, but you know, it's, you always have your up and down days where you don't want to do it and things like that.

So, but yeah, I was pretty good. I was pretty happy with that. What kept you on track during that first, first reco? I think mainly just, you know, thinking about what I can get back to. I was still pretty young, so I was only, I was a bottom age under 19 playing in that state team that year that I did it. So, and being recognised in the Australian squad already. So I knew that there was still a fair bit ahead of me. So, that sort of kept me on track most of the time to actually continue to get through it and work through it.

So yeah, that was pretty much it. How long between when you did the first one to when you started getting back into full training and playing and things like that? I was back playing post surgery. I was back playing about nine and a half months. So yeah, got everything, ticked all the boxes, did all the testing and stuff that they give me, all the tests, the back to sport tests and things like that all came back good. And yeah, so it was about nine and a bit months after post surgery that I came back to play.

Came back through state league, played division one before moving my way back up to champ. So yeah, about nine and a half months really. Awesome. Then, so the transition from, I guess, rehab to training to playing into knee number two. How'd that happen? It was about three months later. So I was only back playing for about, yeah, three months each. And I'd actually been selected in the Northern Territory Australian Netball League team. So I was an import player that had about three import players, I think to kind of build up there. So I just missed

out on the Victorian side of things and they kind of put your name forward to the other teams and states that don't get as much representation. So I was playing for them and I was actually over in Perth playing. I'd played on the Friday night I think it's against Singapore. And then I was playing against WA on the Saturday and went up for a highball and came down and pretty much put all the weight through my opposite leg this time, which is quite common I've heard. And yeah, straight away it just buckled and I pretty much knew straight away, but Physero tried to tell me otherwise.

But I got back to Melbourne and soon, yeah, I got back to Melbourne and soon realised that, yeah, second time I was done. How did the, I guess, the mindset straight away differ from the first time? Oh, it was a lot harder. It was a lot harder just knowing that you've gone through all of that work to get back and knowing that it was going to be pretty much another 12 months until I could get back to that point again. Yeah, that was pretty disappointing. I think I'd been named in the under 21 squad at that point too for the big teams.

So you were playing pretty good netball. Yeah, I was playing, I still wasn't back to my best. No, I wasn't back to my best, but I still was up there. So yeah, it was pretty disappointing. It was hard, you know, because I knew deep down straight away once I'd done it, but I didn't want obviously that to affect the girls and things like that. I sort of had to keep my, well, I'm not very good at keeping my emotions in check anyway, so I didn't do very good at that, but I tried my best to

kind of keep myself on track for the rest of that weekend before I could fly home and get myself checked out back to my physio and gave him the dreaded news and said we're back on it. So yeah. Was that the mindset going into it? We're back into it, let's get stuck in. Pretty much, pretty much. You know, we had a couple of decisions. We discussed whether I'd go through the same surgeon again and in the end I decided I would just because I knew exactly what I was going through. I knew exactly how he worked, you know.

Surgeons are all different in how they are and what they do. So I wanted to, I knew the hospitals, I knew all that sort of stuff. I knew what to expect. So yeah, it was a little bit. It was a different mind frame, that's for sure. You know, to make sure we ticked all those boxes again. But I think in the same token I kind of felt like alright, I've done them both now. I'm pretty even. They'll both be pretty good now. So I don't know. It was certainly a different feeling. It was a harder feeling, yeah.

Did you follow the same rehab protocol and plan for the second one as you did the first? Yeah, we did. Yeah, pretty much exactly the same. We knew that I wanted to get back and play and I still had that in my mental frame that I wanted to get back and play in. So yeah, we pretty much approached everything the exact same. So that was the first one I did it in, I think it was July 2009. And then that second one was, I got it done in September 2010. So yeah, about a year and a bit after it.

During the second rehab, how much did it teach you about yourself, about resilience? So much. Like I was doing, I was doing an AFL traineeship at the time. So I took a year off, a gap year between school and uni. And I just had to, I guess I sort of had to take it as more of an adult too. I was 18, I was, you know, I wasn't going to school anymore, I was earning my own money, I had to take sick leave and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I had to be pretty resilient.

And I certainly learned a lot from it, that's for sure, getting through that. So it was a battle. It was a battle. There were certainly many mental demons that my mum and dad would have told you about that we sort of had to battle through. But you know, the end goal was still there. I still wanted to get back and play netball. So I had to do that. I had to get through it somehow, I guess. How long did it take you to get back into full training and games? Well, I never quite made it back.

You didn't get there? No. So I got, I'd just seen my physio on the Tuesday and he'd given me the all-clear to play. So I had to get through. We had, I think it was a Tuesday that I saw him and we had a home game, not the following Saturday, but the Saturday after. And he told me that I could be right for that game. So I basically had to get through two weeks of full work, full contact work on the court training and stuff. And then I would have been all clear to play. So that was the Tuesday and I trained Friday night and did it again.

So I was about a week and a bit away from playing when I did that. How long post-op was the third one? So that would have been, that would have been pretty much bang on nine, 10 months since the second one that I did that. So yeah, never quite made it back. But you ticked all the boxes. I ticked all the boxes, ticked the same testing stuff and it was the same leg as my second one. So I did the left one, the first one, and then my second and third reco were on my right leg.

So look, who knows what caused that third one, you know, it might not have taken completely. The graph might not have been a hundred percent right. Or it could have just been my bad luck. Really. Who knows? So yeah, that one I guess. So was that one, was the third one an impact injury or was that a landing injury? They were all different. So that one, so the first one I got taken out, second one I was landing obviously. And then the third one I just twisted. So yeah, they were all very, very different. And

yeah, it was just a standard, stock standard drill that I do, I get my kids to do all the time and athletes do all the time these days. So yeah, it was just really going forward. Oh yeah, that wasn't a great night, not going to lie. Yeah, I can imagine. Obviously, like take us back to that night and I guess the couple of days following, how did you deal with it? How did you? Not very well. That wasn't a great one. But at that point I still didn't know what I wanted to do. You know,

it was a third, I knew I was going for a third reco and I texted my physio that night and said, look, I need to come and see you, you know, Monday and Tuesday. And this is what's happened. And we pretty much both knew straight away. He knew when I walked into him on the Monday or whatever day it was that that was pretty much it. We knew how my knees felt and how it shouldn't feel and that was pretty much done. So, you know, I had to go through all the confirmations, MRIs and things like that.

But yeah, that was pretty tough. It was certainly very tough. But in the same token, we still at the beginning went through everything as per normal recovery. Once again, we went through the discussion, do we say, with the same surgeon. I guess this time I probably would have been more likely to change due to the fact that maybe something went wrong with my second one. But in doing so, I still, same thing, came back to same thing. I knew what to expect. I knew what he was going to do. I knew how he worked. I knew how he rolled.

So just took that as being, all right, let's go through him again and go through the same process. So yeah, just did the exact same process up until probably maybe three months post-op where I had to make the decision whether I was going to, are we rehabbing for just general life or are we rehabbing for netball? And I had to make that call. And that's probably one of the hardest things I've had to do. How did you, how did you make that call? How did you actually put yourself through that? To be honest, I can't remember.

I don't know how I did it. I honestly don't know how I came to that conclusion. In the end, I think it was just like, it's happened to me three times. What's stopping it from happening again? I wanted to still be able to live my life relatively well. And if I was to do it again, I just don't know what I would do and how I'd cope. So yeah, that was a pretty tough decision. I can't really tell you exactly how I came up with that decision, but I did somehow. And I think about, you know, being a teacher now, I was only 19, 20 at the time.

I think I might've been 19. I don't think I was even 20 yet. I don't know how my students these days, I think about them if they had to make that decision, you know, two years after they finished school. It would have forced you to grow up pretty quickly. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know how I made that decision and my parents are probably the ones that would be able to tell you a bit better. They'd probably know the conversations we had because I don't remember a whole lot from that. But yeah. How important were your parents and those support networks for you?

Huge, massive. You know, just even taking me to everywhere I needed to go and physical appointments in the city, you know, we were living down here in the peninsula and just everything. So they did a lot for me and yeah, certainly supported me in all the decisions that I made. And my mum's probably pretty happy that I decided not to go back and play netball. She probably couldn't have gone for it again. You might've been able to. That's exactly right. But in a way, you know, it also affected them too. They loved watching me play just as much as I loved playing.

So they had to deal with that as well. So yeah, it was pretty tough. It was pretty tough. So that was, that was within two years of the first one. So that was June 2011. So I had three records in less than two years, which is pretty nuts. Yeah, that's crazy. What other support networks did you, I guess, enlist throughout that time? I went and had to see, I saw a sports site. Just, she was more of a specialist in like retirement. So she'd work with a lot of elite athletes in actually making that transition from elite sport into normal life.

So I saw her for a good couple of months and that was awesome. That was probably what I needed. And looking back on it, I'm glad I did it. And my netball community were great as well. You know, a lot of people say your sporting families are your families. And it's 100% true. So throughout that time, I actually went straight into coaching pretty much. Because the hardest thing was me is I didn't want to give up netball because that's where a lot of my friends were. You know, at that time I had my school friends and I had my netball friends and that was pretty much it.

Whereas now I've got a whole range of networks. But back when you're 19 years old, that's pretty much all you have. So I didn't want to leave that environment knowing that that's where all my friends were. And it'd probably be harder for me going through my rehab, not having them around me, even though I wasn't coming back to play. So yeah, it took on pretty much a coaching role pretty much straight away from that point. Once I decided that netball clearly wasn't for me. Yeah, it's pretty crazy to make that. I guess at 20 to make that decision of a sport you've grown up playing and loving and things like that.

So how did the goalposts move in terms of what your goals were and what you wanted to achieve? It took a while. I didn't watch netball for probably a good year. Or if I did, I hated it. So it took a while for me. I remember going through that and saying to, it got to a point probably a year after so that would have been 2012 or something where I vividly remember saying to my friends, I can actually watch netball now. So it did take a fair while. But once I started coaching, it was sort of a new passion for me and a new environment that I quite enjoyed.

And it was a focus that I could actually put, you know, everything that I'd done made it somewhat worthwhile. So, you know, I started coaching under 15s and then slowly worked my way up. But even just being able to put that experience and knowledge and things onto someone like under 15s was how I changed my focus, I guess. Yeah, which helped me a lot. It really did. I'm glad I did it. It was hard, but I'm very glad I did it. Excellent. Did you, I guess, it was probably maybe even a little bit after you did yours, but have you spoken to guys like Daniel Menzel and Alex Johnson and guys like that?

You know, I haven't, but I've certainly followed their stories. And I guess it's crossed my mind that, you know, these people were able to get through three, four new records and still get back out there. And I guess, but for me, I wasn't in an elite environment. You know, if I was, I'm sure I probably would have come back from that third one. Yeah, so I'd work and everything else. I'd work, I had to pay for all my rehab, I had to pay for my physios, I had to do all of that. Well, for the first one's mum and dad did.

But you know, if it kept going on, you know, it was just, if I hadn't been in a different environment, I probably would have. And I had that support, you know, that constant physio support, strength and conditioning support, I probably would have. But yeah, I just had a normal life that I had to live. So I couldn't put all of my eggs in that basket, I guess. Yeah, so there's certainly stories that I followed along and have been able to, I don't know, kind of relate to it in some perspective. But yeah, the different environments certainly impacted on the fact that I just couldn't quite come back.

Yeah. For, I guess, younger humans, guys our age and maybe a little bit older that have been through or are going through those long term injuries, what advice would you have? Just to stick with it and, you know, be true to what you can do and how you're feeling like you're going to have your shit days, you're going to have your good days, you're going to have your days where you just don't want to do your rehab and that's okay. You know, it's okay to have those days where life just sucks. Because at the end

of the day it'll be worth it when you do come through them and can work on, yeah, at the end of the day you're going to be a better person for it and you're going to be strong for it if you can come back from them and be even stronger. It's just going to make, you know, the rest of your career or your playing days or things like that much better. Yeah, awesome. What lessons that you've learnt over the last 10 years can you now pass on to your students every day? Well, the one thing

I preach to them every damn day is that, you know, they think they're going to be this elite athlete and yes, some of them might be but, you know, I could have been an elite athlete too but I'm not. So I try and teach them every day they need to have a back up plan. There has to be something that if they don't get drafted, if they don't go to America and go to college and things like that, they have to know what they're going to do. And for me, school was, you know, I was quite lucky.

I was quite a good student as it was so I always had a back up plan because netball back at that point in time was never going to give me a career anyway. But, yeah, to my students it's, I tell them, you know, when they come, that's fine miss, I'm going to play professional footy. I was like, well, you might but if you don't, what else can you do? And that's a lesson that I like to give my students all the time because, yeah, as I said, I could have been doing it but I'm not and I was very lucky that I had a back up plan.

Yeah, and even if they do get to there, they get to 30 or 35 and they've got to retire and they need a back up plan. That's exactly right, exactly right. So, you know, education is super important for my students and whatever that education is, it might be achieving extreme heights or it might just be getting through and getting a pass and being able to move on to something they want to do. That's exactly fine and that's what we want to do. So, yeah, super important to make sure that sport is not always life. Definitely, definitely.

How did you make the transition, I guess, into coaching and how has coaching progressed for you over the last few years? So, yeah, I was pretty lucky, you know, obviously going down the teaching path anyway, teaching and coaching worked as one a lot of the time and, you know, the skills that I have in one work in the other and so I just took it pretty much a year at a time and worked my way up. So, I started in the 15s at Peninsula Waves in our V&L club, so I started in our development and

then worked up in that development side of our club and then only took me a couple of years and I was coaching under 19s in V&L and then was coaching Division 1 in V&L and now I'm up in Champ. So, I'm Champ Assistant this year and was last year, so the last couple of years I've been able to work my way in that. So, you know, whilst it's crappy and no good when you can't play, when you get out and you can actually coach and pass on your skills in other ways and the way I looked at it too is that I'm coming out and I was starting, I started coaching when I was 19.

By the time all my friends that I played with are now coming out and coaching, I'm going to be worlds ahead of them and all my qualifications and things are already up to date and quite high. So, I've been given a little bit of a jump start on that too. As to where that takes me, I don't know. Who knows? I might just be a local club coach forever and that's fine or I might do something bigger, I don't know. So, it's kind of allowed me to work into that space as well. Beautiful. And you're back playing?

Yeah, I am. Oh god. How did you make that decision? I don't know. So, I started playing last year, so this was six years post the last time I played, so obviously the last time I played was just before retail number two. That's a long time. That's a long time. I honestly never thought I would play again. I really didn't. I never thought I could do it, but yeah. So, that was pretty much, I played pretty much six years post the last time I played and about five years post-reco number three was by the time I got back.

So, I don't even know how, I started coaching putting it all down the tyre and just loved it and I guess every day I was there I was like, you know what, I could probably do this. You know, the intensities and I was high, what is it, VNL and I was like, well, maybe, maybe and I thought about it before the pre-season. I was like, nah, can't do it, can't do it. And then got to, oh, it was probably a few games in. I was like, no, you know what, stuff it. I'm going to give it a crack.

Yeah, cool. And so, it took me probably a couple of weeks to build up momentum and then I went up to my physio and I said, I've got a secret for you. She's like, what's that? So, this is our club physio, I said, I've got a secret. She goes, oh, I love secrets. What is this? And I said, oh, I think I want to come back and play. She goes, what? What do you mean? I was like, I think I want to play it again. And I was like, can you help me? She goes, oh my God, Kerry, yes, I can help you.

So, I think I went in and saw her. I hadn't been to the gym. I hadn't really done that much in the last six years really well. Probably five years since I got Rico number three and worked through it. And she did all the tests and things like that. So, this was about, I had my, I had it pinned. We were playing in Germanna and Germanna's an indoor court. And that was about eight weeks away. I was like, right, if I do some work over the next eight weeks, and I said to Emma, my physio, I said, if I do the work over the next eight weeks, do you reckon I could get there?

And she did the tests and things and stability wise, my knees were perfect. They were great. I just had no strength in my legs. So, one of the hardest things for me that I found was actually when I was playing, you've got your structured strength and conditioning time. You've got your structured fitness time. You've got your on-court time. So, when I was coaching, I was now coaching in that time and I had to find time to actually get to the gym myself. And it was just hard work. And I also didn't have the motivation. It was like, what's the point of me actually going out there?

I can't do what I love. I can't do what I want to do. So, I found, yeah, I pretty much didn't enter the gym for probably a good five years. I still, you know, ran and walked and did all that sort of stuff, but nothing intense. You were active, but not training. Correct. So, I still remember the day after I went and saw Emma and she did all the tests and, man, my legs were the sorest they have been in years. I couldn't get up and down from the seat. I said, Emma, what have you done to me?

And so, yeah, she was like, you know what, I reckon if you do the work, if you do this, this and this, we might get you there. And eight weeks later, I went and saw her the week before and she said, yeah, no, you're good. Let's give it a go. Let's give her a crack. She said, ball's in your court now. You've done everything you need to and if you want to do it, you can do it. So, got back out there and played. Awesome. How'd the first game go? Oh, it's a bit of a blur, to be honest.

I don't remember much of it, except that every quarter time I was like, all right, I've got, you know, quarter time I was like, I've got three quarters to get through, half time I've got half and a half to get through and I just wanted to get through that game. Like, that was all I wanted to do was just get through it and I actually played all right, which was kind of nice. Awesome. It was nice being back, but yeah, God, it was hard. It was hard work. So I originally just planned to fill in whenever they need me to, but in the end I was, ended up trying to qualify for finals.

We didn't make finals, but so that was probably a blessing in it. I don't think I would have been up for the, for the battle of that. Yeah. Of finals, but I think I would have coped and fine, but yeah, I certainly feel like my legs are the strongest I've ever been. And I've also got time on my side too, like these new ACLs have been in there for five, six, seven years now. So I trust them and that's probably been the main thing in coming back and playing is that prior to that, I didn't trust my knees at all.

You know, we play a student, we teach a basketball game at school and I, you know, big crap in my daps and something's going to happen. Whereas now I trust my knees that they can do it. And so, yeah, so played B grade last year and now I've been conned into playing A grade this year and almost what, four weeks left in the season and I've got to work for them. Yeah. So it's been fun. It's nice being back. I still do get my, my moments where I freak out and I certainly don't, don't go into contests that I don't need to, but I guess that's a little bit of the beauty of footy netball too.

You can, it's not as serious as some of the other competitions. So I can pick and choose what I do and you know, as soon as anything doesn't feel right, I can pull the pin. I can take myself off. So, so yeah, so I just do that. So it's been, it's been fun. It's my, my Nan, my grandparents are down at Tyab and my Nan comes over every week. "Kira, you shouldn't be playing. Kira, you shouldn't be playing." I was like, well I am Nan so you just deal with it. Deal with it. Geez, that sounds so familiar.

My Nana, have you given up footy yet? No, Nana. They're so rough. Yes. Yeah. So that's my Nan. She tells me every week that I shouldn't be playing but that's alright. I still get out there. So yeah, six years in the making and I was back out there. That's awesome. That's really cool. How important for you was that, I guess mindset of my knees are okay now or I have faith in my knees that they're going to do the job. Massive, massive. Because as I said, I didn't trust them. I really didn't. And also the fact that I hadn't done, I hadn't done the work.

Whereas now I know I've done the work and now I'm maintaining the work. You know, I go to the gym once or twice a week, but it's enough for me to be able to maintain what I need to in terms of the strength whilst also training and playing. So yeah, getting the trust back in them was massive, massive. And it definitely took till this year to really trust them and see that I can actually play at that level and trust myself, trust my body. And yeah, because up until that point, you know, I had no trust for my knees because I didn't really test them either.

Yeah, that's one thing. Yeah. So now if a friend calls me up and says, do you want to play casual game of netball? I can say yes. And that was really one of the main motivators behind it. If someone come to me and said, Kira, do you want to play a game of netball today? I'd be like, yeah, you know what? I actually do. And that's okay. So yeah, getting that trust back was pretty important. Well, from like a strength coaching point of view, if you think you're getting injured and there's a lot of research to back this up, if you think you're getting injured and you're worried about something, there's a good chance you're getting injured.

Absolutely. But I've been there and I'm sure you've been there with the knees, but if you're not at a stage where you think I'm right to play, then you probably shouldn't be playing. That's exactly right. And that's what Emma Mafizio really put into me. She said, Kira, everything structurally is fine here. You know, you've got the strength now. The structure in your knees is good. You've just got to back it now. And that was really important for me. That was massive. For those guys who are struggling through injuries and repeated injuries and they're struggling with that mental aspect, would you recommend they go see a sports psych?

Absolutely. Absolutely. My psych, seeing that psych was, even though it wasn't to get back and play, just helping me come to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to play, was good. And yeah, there's certainly no shame in doing that either. There's a little bit of stigma around, isn't there? There totally is. I've studied psych at uni, so it's something that came into that as well, getting that stigma and understanding that they're just there to help. Of course. Yeah, potentially it might have been worthwhile for me to do it earlier on, but I'm pretty strong and I'm pretty strong-willed and I knew what I needed.

And as soon as my physio, back then after reco number three, said, all right, you're not playing, I suggest you go and see this one. She's worked with all the elite athletes in moving into retirement and things like that. And that's how we need to treat it. So yeah, I think it was definitely worthwhile and anyone out there who needs a little bit of support, by all means, seek it because you just never quite know how they're going to help. It might only help a small bit, but it might help a lot. Still helping. For some people, exactly.

What was the main thing that surprised you getting back into it after five years out? The main thing that probably surprised me is that I actually could still play. That was also one of the battles. Was I really that good? Was I really able to play that well? And things like that. That was probably one of the main things that surprised me. I was like, you know, I actually was okay at this and I still am. And I still have, I guess, the mindset to play and to have all the skills and all that sort of stuff.

So I think that probably surprised me the most is that after six years not playing, I could actually still play. And other than that, that was probably it, to be honest. Because I'd been coaching, I was still in contact with the netball world and knowing the pace of things and things like that. I reckon the most surprising thing was personal, was that I could actually still play, which was nice. That's awesome. That's really cool. You spoke about your motivation ebbing and flying a little bit. How important for you was that discipline around, "I've just got to get it done every day"?

It was pretty important, but at times it didn't happen. And that's alright, especially after Ricoh 3. I didn't have the motivation to come back and play. So I still knew that to have a normal life with my knees, I guess, I had to do it. So I still did and I still knew that if I did the work, my knees would be good. So you definitely need that motivation. And if you can hook in with someone who can help you with that, you know, even if it's someone that you can go to the gym with once or twice a week, actually hook in to have that motivation to continue to do it.

Super important. But yeah, you are going to have days where you don't want to do it and that's okay. That's totally okay. As long as it's not prolonged, I guess, because you've still got to do your rehab. You have to do it. You've had major surgery, you've got to do it and make sure that it's set for life. But yeah, there will be days where you don't want to do it and that's okay. Where to from here with your coaching and playing and teaching and everything? What are you aiming for? You're not sure? To be honest, I don't really know.

Just enjoying the process? I am. I'm just enjoying it and I'm enjoying being able to play again, be back on the court with some of my friends and having a laugh and, you know, laughing when things just don't go out on the court. You know, yesterday things certainly didn't go out on the court and you just laugh because I'm playing netball. That's awesome. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know where I really want to get to. I've sort of got no, at the moment, no real long-term goals in terms of teaching or netball. It's kind of just going with the flow.

Lots of other things are happening in my life so, you know, if netball needs to take a little bit of a backseat for a while, that's also okay. So yeah, it's just super busy. Life's just crazy and just trying to juggle lots of different things but that's alright. So yeah, I love my teaching and I want to keep pushing it as much as I can and obviously if that does mean netball, for example, needs to take a backseat, then that's okay too and vice versa really. So yeah, I'm incredibly lucky to be doing what I'm doing and enjoying it and yeah, playing's fun too.

Awesome. I love the mindset. I love where you're at because it's obviously taken a little while to get to that point but you seem kind of at peace with what you're doing which is awesome. Yeah, definitely, definitely. I've got a few questions for you to finish up. It can have everything to do with what we've spoken about so far or absolutely nothing. First one. What is success to you? I think success to me is just being comfortable within yourself. Just having your own confidence in yourself too. You know, that's successful. If you're not loving what you're doing and you're not enjoying yourself and being successful in yourself, then there's probably not much point.

Awesome. Yeah, that's great. Now I'm going to give you two parts to this question. Okay. If you could give teenage you one piece of advice, what would it be? But I want two pieces of advice. I want one when you're pre-three knees and one post-three knees. Okay, pre-three knees it would be, well actually, if I had to give myself advice before I had my knees done it would be to just treasure the experiences that I get from playing and also not to rush things. Things will happen when they're supposed to happen. But I guess, yeah,

it's hard in respect to that I would still give myself that advice but I don't for a second regret trying to get back and playing and things like that. So, you know, yes I might take it a little bit slower but I don't, yeah, do not for a second regret trying to get back and playing those things. Oh, post advice to my 19 year old self post deciding not to play netball would be to enjoy the experiences that I got from not playing netball. I was really lucky that, you know, I'm a firm believer in everything happens for a reason.

I didn't know why I had these three knee reconstructions but they happened and I think one of the reasons was my partner was, he was working overseas a lot. So if I was playing I wouldn't have been able to go and see him. So I got to travel the world after my knee reco's. So it would just be to enjoy those experiences and be able to actually take them in because, you know, things do happen for a reason and maybe that's one of them. So, yeah. What's the nicest thing you've ever done for someone? Oh God, that's a hard question.

I don't even know. I like to think I'm a nice person most of the time. I really think it probably comes down to my work life, you know, looking out for my students and making sure they have a good time and learning something, building something. I would like to think that's probably most of my day, being a nice, doing nice things for them. I don't know, they probably wouldn't agree with me half the time, let's be honest, but yeah, I don't think I have one specific thing. What's the last book you read start to finish? Oh, it's a school book.

It's really good though. It's called The Giver and my year 8's are reading in class at the moment. What's the main teaching point you want your year 8's to get from? Oh, is that not everything is perfect. Not everything is perfect. Things may seem perfect but might not always be and sometimes trying to be perfect actually causes issues. Good, I like that. So yeah, that's my book that my year 8's are reading and I've just read it from start to finish just this weekend. So yeah, it's a good one. Awesome. Who are your biggest influences? Oh, my parents, basically.

They're my biggest influences. Yeah, the support that they've given me is huge. Good. Yeah, my parents. Same. Yeah. If you could be remembered in one sentence, what would it be? I don't know. If I could be probably resilient, I reckon. Yeah. Self explanatory. Easy. Yeah. Good. A couple of favourites to finish up. Favourite quote? Do you know what? I actually don't have one. What? I know. I don't have one. I don't know why. That's okay. I have used a lot of quotes. There's a lot of teaching quotes out there. Yeah. I like to look at a range of quotes and see them influence my life in different ways.

Cool. So I don't have one. That's alright. It's bad, but that's alright. Favourite movie? Oh, Love Actually. My favourite one. Favourite recording artist? I'm an R&B fan. I don't have one. We were actually discussing this at netball the other week. I can just know words to lots of different songs. That's a talent. We were talking about me rapping Eminem, and I said I'd do that pretty good. We have lip-sync battles coming up, but I think I would take that one. I don't have one. Cool. Any R&B though. Favourite resource just for new information? My computer at school.

I'm always finding new resources, new things to spread on my children and help them with. Yeah, cool. Yeah, my computer. I wouldn't live without it. We had no internet work the other way, and it was a disaster. I couldn't find my resources, get what I need, impart what I need. Yeah, that's my computer. Favourite hobby? Outside of netball, I'd say it's just listening to music. Yeah, cool. We just packed up my house recently, and I was just grooving to some music and listening to some music while I was doing that. So yeah, I enjoy a bit of music.

Nice. Sometimes driving to and from work, I decide whether I want to listen to people talking or listening to some music, and yeah, that's about it. Last question. Yeah. What's your teaching philosophy? Well, my teaching philosophy is that education needs to be something that you need to have motivation for and to do. If there is, obviously, education needs to have that little bit of a, you need to have that want to do it, but you also need to see the value in it as well. So I try and pass it on to my kids every single day that, you know, education has its value.

There might not always be, you know, you might not always see how you're going to use that every single day, but, you know, at some point you'll go, "Oh, that's why Miss Wills told me about that." So just to see that, while you might not see the importance yet, you know, one day you might, and it has its purpose. Awesome. Yeah, purpose in it. Thanks for sharing. That's okay. It was a lot of fun. No worries. That's good. Well done. Good-o. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.