S1E07 · Ash Ball

Hey guys, welcome to week 7 of the Virtus Performance Podcast. Today we sat down and spoke to Ash Ball of Instone Creative. Ash has a pretty interesting story and his business, Instone, share a lot of similarities with Virtus, so it was pretty cool to hear from him why he does what he does and all the little things and differences that he finds throughout the day at his work. He also works for a company called Project Rocket, which is an anti-bullying, anti-hate and anti-prejudice movement, so that was really cool. This was a lot of fun, so enjoy.

My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day. I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. Hey guys, welcome to the Virtus Performance Podcast. This is week 7. I'm sitting here with Ash Ball of Instone Creative. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks mate, thanks for having me. So tell me a little bit about yourself, about your journey, about yeah, who's Ash Ball? Oh gosh, that's a hard question to answer.

Well, right now I run Instone Creative as the owner and the operator, which is cool. Essentially that name gives no details to what we do, so we are a music school essentially, but the whole idea of the music school is beyond teaching, it's to like cultivate culture for people to learn. I found for, well at least for me, learning music and from the feedback I was getting from people in the community it was like, yeah, like there's places to go to learn music, but it's just not right for me, like I just don't feel comfortable.

I have like older students who are like, you know, middle-aged who are like, I'm not gonna go hang out in like a waiting room for this like dodgy looking place with these like ten-year-olds and feel uncool. So I was like, I wanted to get a place that was like, you know what, like wherever you're at, like let's just teach you from where you're at, rather than like, let's just teach the same thing over and over again. Yeah, all your basic stuff that they're probably already done at some point. Right, yeah, it's like similar to you guys, like getting to know someone's journey first and then getting to know where they're at, I think is so important.

I think like, I don't know, my philosophy on everything is like, you can you can teach anyone like anything really, but it's about like the engagement or the communication that's important. It's like, it's not about what I'm teaching, it's about how we get the result that you want. Yeah, so that's what I do amongst a bunch of other things, but yeah, essentially that's what I'm focusing on. Anyway, how long have you been in the music industry for? How long have you been a musician yourself? Oh, good question. It's weird, people ask you, yeah, people ask you that question, you're sort of like, am I a musician?

Am I? I think I started, well I would have, I started music when I was a kid, I've always like sung music. I think my granddad gave me a guitar when I was like four or five. Yeah. And like clearly couldn't play it, but he gave it to me, found it. Go start somewhere. You know like hard rubbish days? Yeah. It was like similar story to that, I think it was like in a cell-pose bin or something, and he got it to me, and I remember sitting there, he was a mechanic, so he used to

like fix engines, and I remember sitting there just like playing to him like for all day, like seven hours at least, and it would have been terrible now that I think about it, like he, and he sat there being like, good job son. And I think that was like once I did that, I was like, I want to do this, like I want to be able to do it. Yeah. It's just a journey, like you kind of, it's like anything if you're passionate about it or you love it, you just kind of find yourself doing

it all the time, it's not something that you're like, alright I'm gonna do this, it was just sort of something that I just kept, kept, I just couldn't get rid of it. Yeah. How did it progress from that guitar? Well I started learning, then I like begged, begged and begged my parents to buy me a bass guitar. Yeah. Thought that was the instrument for me because it had less strings and it'd be easier, and I begged them for like two years, and then they got me one, and then I begged them to get taught like,

give me lessons, let me learn, and then I did that, and then like, like most bass players, they sometimes get bored, and then started learning guitar, and I played in some band at school, it's like a Battle of the Bands thing. Cool. And as the bass player, and they needed me to do like backing vocals. Nice. And I was like, I remember being like, no, no way, I'm not standing on the microphone, no chance, and then I did it, but I did it, I think I just like mined, or I pretended that I was doing it, but then after that I was like, oh you know what, screw it, I'm gonna sing.

Cool. And then from there I just love it, love singing, and my favorite thing is to teach voice, like I love, I love the voice, it's kind of like, like how you guys think about muscles, like I get to think of the same way, but just like all these internal things happening, I get really geeky on like the science behind it. Nice. Yeah. What, what are the main type of people that come into Instone, and what are the main things you want to teach them? Great question. So like, well generally, the weird thing is, I

set up Instone, and most people think like, music school, they're like, okay, you're gonna get like the generic like kids that want to start learning, and it's funny, the way we've set it up, it's like, we just don't get that, like the people that come to us are generally the people that are, like I was saying something the other day, like most of my students are like, you know, mums and dads, or like, in their like 20s, and they don't want to be there to learn as such, they want to be there to craft something, and like, understand like songwriting, or understand how, like, not only can I be a better singer, but like, how can I apply that?

Yeah. Like, I've always wanted to play a gig, so how can I get to that point where I can play a gig? Yeah. So yeah, so it's generally like the average age, it's like anywhere from like 20 all the way through to like, I've got like 60 something year old students. That's cool. It's really cool, it's like every day is such a, it's cool, because you can communicate with such different groups of people, with different loves, and different musical tastes, and it's awesome. What's been the main difference between, say, a 20 year old and a 60 year old in terms of teaching, but in terms of you learning off them as well?

I think the coolest thing about doing this is, because it's so, it's one-on-one, like, you learn so much off other people. Yeah. Like, they're essentially paying you to teach them, but at the same time, I feel like, you learn off them. I feel like I'm robbing them sometimes. I'm like, wow, you're teaching me so much about things. Yeah. But I think, like, everyone, I don't know, I operate from this place, kind of like doing a podcast, like, when you have a conversation with people, it should never be about, like, a one-sided thing. Yeah. Like, what can you do for me?

It's like, if you're having an honest conversation, you can both be gaining. It's back and forth, everyone wins. Yeah. I think like every student, there's something to learn off them, or, you know, even if it's the way that they, like, I have a heap of students who are just, like, really, just really sweet people, like, really nice people, and I'm like, not only do I love teaching you, but you're teaching me a lot about character, and, like, how to be a better person. Awesome. And that's my favourite thing. Cool. It goes beyond, like, oh, you taught me a new song.

Yeah. Well, no, you actually. So much more than that. Yeah, you taught me how to act in a situation, or how to be a good person in a moment when you need to be. That's cool. What's the one lesson that you've learned off other people about yourself? Geez, I never thought about that. That's a good point. The lesson I've learned about myself, I think, well, they've taught me a lot about myself, really. Yeah. What are the main things? I think the one thing that I've learned from other people is just how, like, passionate you can be about the things that you love, like, and for the hundred percent opposite of self-gain.

I think a lot of us think of, like, passion in people. We look at people with passion, we're like, what are they doing that for? Like, what are they gaining out of that? And I think those people have taught me that, like, actually, you know what, like, this passion is, it's cool because I'm sharing it. It's not cool because I'm gaining from it. Yeah. Like, I'm sure you find that too, like, you train someone, and then they get inspired, and they do some, like, cool stuff, and you're like, yeah. That's really cool. And then you, like, get behind them, and then they've inspired someone else who gets behind them.

It's just that ripple effect of inspiration that comes from one person's passion. That's what I love about that, I guess, community environment, because you feed off so many different people, and you learn so many different things about yourself, but that comes from a selfless point of trying to help someone else. Yeah. That's the best part about it. And, I mean, that's, that's why, like, I admire what you guys are doing, like, at Virtus, right, because it's not, it's not, hey, here's, here's a gym. Yeah. It's like, anyone can have a gym. It's like, but you've

created a place where it's like, hey, here's a gym, and our purpose is not only to make you fit, but our purpose is to involve you in a community of people, and make you feel like you've done better every day. Find those little things, those little wins day-to-day. Yeah, it's awesome. It's not just a business, it's like a, like a social change, or like a cultural change that you're creating too. I appreciate that. Yours is, yours is pretty similar, because, like, your whole goal was to create something that wasn't a regular musical, right? Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah. What are the main, I guess, differences, if someone had never heard of you before, what are the main differences between you and your stocks down and run-of-the-mill? Cool. That's a really good question. So, essentially, the way, the biggest difference I find is, I reckon there's like two main differences. The first is that we teach from a recording studio. Yeah. So, the benefits of that is... Automatically, they're in that environment. Yeah, I mean, you're not going, like, here's a room. It's like, well, here's everything at your fingertips. That you can learn. Yeah. Straight away. There's no, like, alright, well, next week I'll bring in that, you know.

It's like, it's all here. Let's go. Yeah. Let's learn. Let's spend the next hour gaining whatever it is you need. Yeah. The second thing that I think is the biggest, and the whole philosophy of why I even bothered, was like, I knew a lot of music teachers. In fact, I worked for a lot of music schools, and I did. And I just found that, like, that model of, like, teaching a student and, like, inspiring them, and then bringing in another student and teaching them the same lesson. Yeah. And it just, it seemed like you weren't gaining anything from it for them.

Yeah. And it seemed like to me, like, I was like, I don't know, I've just, I've always known, like, I studied youth work, and I learned a lot about engagement with people, and I learned that, like, everyone engages in such a different level. Yeah. And if I just teach you the same thing that I taught, like, for example, like, when we spoke about before about the age, you know, if I teach, you know, a six-year-old student who wants to learn how to just sing one song. Yeah. And then I've got, the next student I've got is a 24-year-old that wants to craft an artistry where they can gig every weekend.

Yeah. Like, I can't teach you the same thing. Yeah, of course. Like, it's got to be completely different. And it challenges your skill set as a teacher as well. It's insane. Yeah. Right? It's like, you can't just come in with your stock standard, like, here's a, here's a worksheet, like, let's go through it. Yeah. It's like, you really have to think about, like, well, that's your goal, and, well, how the heck are we gonna get there? Yeah, that's cool. How do I get you to a point where you're comfortable and confident to do it? You have to throw out that cookie cutter approach and go, well, yeah, everyone comes in and, like, we, you probably ask similar questions to us.

We ask, what are your goals? And then, where are you now? Like, there's a lot of different ways to get there, but you've got to figure out what's gonna be the most efficient, what's gonna be the best. Totally. Yeah. And I think, like, we were chatting before, off-mind, but, yeah, the idea of, like, like, how important it is to actually get to know someone before you even think about any of the other stuff. Yeah. Like, I mean, when you first come into a lesson, you expect to sit there and sing, and I don't reckon I ever have a first lesson where we sit there singing the whole time.

Yeah. Because, like, really, we're both interested in getting to know each other. Yeah. Like, you don't want to be taught from someone that you have no idea about, but also, I want to know everything about you. Like, tell me how you work. Like, yeah, let's get to know each other so that when we do start learning, heck, it's gonna be like fire, because I'm gonna teach you the way you know, and, you know, it's gonna work like that. We have a very similar approach in here. Like, if we, we have some people come to us

for exercise, right, which is one part of their lives, but if we don't understand every single part of their life and how, you know, what they do for work, what they do on the weekends, what they spend their time doing, then we're not gonna be able to understand that full picture and that full story. And, you know, people kind of get, not a little bit taken aback, but I guess the first question I ask is, "Why are you here?" And that kind of opens up a whole Pandora's box of, "Here's my life story in an

hour," and we do our intro sessions, and we don't tend to get down to the gym in those intro sessions purely because it's, "What can I learn about you to help you down the track?" Yeah. Because there's no point training someone or teaching someone how to sing a song for 20 minutes without actually understanding why they're there, what they want, and what they want out of it. Totally. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think that's, I think that's where we're similar in that, that sense. Like, above everything, it's like about the person, always, you know, not the, not the, "Why do you exist?"

It's about why they're here, and I think it's so important. Yeah. Where did the name come from? "Instone Creative." It's a really good question. Yeah, that's a really good one. It's a different name. Yeah, I think, at first, my whole, the approach of "Instone" was like, well, we wanted to be, I didn't want to relate to a music school anyway, I didn't want to be like, "Uh, such and such music school," because it had to be different enough that people, the right people would be like, "Yeah, you know what? Like, that's different enough for me to give it a go."

So, that was where it started. I mean, the whole philosophy of, like, "A stone" for me is that, like, one, like, a stone is a solid object, but also, like, a stone is, like, chipped, and, like, it's, it is something unique. Unique, yeah. You know, in every sense. And it's not like, you know, how, some people use the, like, the saying around a diamond, and it's such a cliché, it's like, "Well, hang on, a stone can be, like, dirty," and, like, that's where you could be at, you know, you could want to, like, to sing, like, you know, "Screamo" in a band.

Yeah. You don't want to come to places like, "We make diamonds that shine." Like, so, for me, like, "Instone" is this idea of, like, you know, like, every single student that's here is part of a culture that's different. That's cool. So it's, like, not only are you different, but if you come here, we're going to connect into a culture that's completely different. Yeah, and it's about, like, changing that, that idea. So that's where, yeah, where it came from, and the whole idea of creative is, like, every lesson is taught from a creative point of view, rather than a, than a theoretic point of view.

Like, for me, like, for music, I'm not sure what it's like for, like, health science, but there's generally, like, two ways you can go about it. There's, like, the patterns way and the, like, mathematical way, or there's, like, the creative way, and everyone teaches the pattern. Yeah. No one's going into the creative as much, like, but I was, like, "Well, what if we could use the creative to teach the pattern?" Yeah. And then, all of a sudden, you've created something that's completely different, and that was the philosophy of the name. That's really cool. It's, like, let's bring them together.

Like, let's create something, you know. Why is, what's creativity to you? That's a really good point. I think, for me, creativity, and I've thought about this a lot, generally, because it's in the name. It's in the name, yeah. I had to think about it. Um, but creative. I feel like we put, like, so much emphasis on it. Yeah. It's like, "Creativity." It's like, "Draw me a picture," or, like. Are you creative, or are you not creative? Yeah. And I think, yeah, I wrote a blog on that recently. It's like, you've either got it or you don't, right?

Yeah. Because people have this attitude of creativity, it's like, "No, I'm not creative." Yeah. Like, "Yeah, you are." Like, we all are, and for me, that's what it comes down to. It's, like, the ability to think of a new thought. Yeah. But not only that, to act on it. I think that's the difference. I think we can all think something new, but then we'll follow somebody else's thought. That's cool. It's like, "Creativity's simple." It's like, "I've thought of something new, and now I'm just going to do it." Yeah. And even if that sounds simple, it's hard to do, right?

It's hard to motivate yourself. There's a big difference between simple and easy. Yeah. It's, yeah, true. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's not easy, but it's simple. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. And something that, like, I can't remember who it was. Someone said, "This place is really creative," the other day, and I'm not a very, like, I tell myself I'm not a very creative person, but we've been able to create an environment that is completely different. So, in that aspect, I guess we are creative, which is just kind of cool. Yeah. Why do you think creativity is so important for so many people?

Yeah. Cool. That's a really good point. I think creativity is important. Well, firstly, I'd say, like, creativity's important in everyone's life. Yeah. You know? And people, I think we limit creativity to the creative elements that we, like, the byproduct of creativity, which might be, like, art or whatever. Yeah. And, like you said, you're telling yourself you're not creative, only because you're like, "Oh, I don't paint." Yeah, I don't paint, I don't sing. "I can't sing. Have you heard me at a karaoke bar?" Like, I'm terrible, right? Horrible. Yeah. I'm like, "I just can't sing." Yeah. But I think creativity, like, you guys, is like, "Oh, actually, you know what?

Like, let's just create a gym that's, like, about people." Yeah. Oh. You're creative all of a sudden. Yeah. It's like, "I thought of this idea. I did it." Yeah. So, I think it's important, getting back to your question. Sorry, I go off on tangents. No, tangents are good. Getting back to your question, I think it's important because, otherwise, we just kind of follow the trends, you know? We follow the crowd, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But, I mean, if you've had an idea, like, it's innovation. It's like, if you act on that idea, and I got this saying at my other job, and it's like, "Trust me.

Your passion looks good on you." That's cool. It's like, this idea is, like, we always try and wear other people's ideas all the time, and that's cool. At the same time, when you've got your idea, it's like, if you put that on, trust me, everybody else is going to watch you and go, "Hey, you know what? That's cool. Like, good on you for actually giving it a go." And if you fail, you fail. Like, who cares? I like that. You know? Yeah. That's really important because so many people, I guess, just tell themselves that their passion isn't good enough, or what they want to do isn't good enough.

So they try and follow a path that isn't their path. Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. And it's something that probably you guys would be fostering an environment where people can start to show themselves and tell themselves, and actually, it's what I'm looking for, allow them to show themselves as to what they really are, rather than everyone else's preconceived idea of what they should do. Totally. Yeah. I mean, you guys would see that here, I'm sure, too, right? Like, bringing people out of their shells. Oh, yeah. Actually, no, this is what you kind of look like, and they go, "Oh, like, really?

That's me?" Like, yeah, I never saw myself as that. Yeah. It's like, even like, if I can think of, like, a real example, it's like, when a student comes in, and I'm like, you know, so, like, tell me a song that you, like, like, or whatever. And they'll be like, "You know, I like this song." I'm like, "Oh, cool. Let's sing it." And then I'll completely play it in a completely different way. And they're just staring at me. Like, because they want to be, like, the artist that they're here, and they can't understand how to make it their own.

It's like, and that progression of going, "Actually, you know what, let's take that." And this is, like, one of my big things I'm passionate about. We do, like, live sessions, like, videos with artists or, like, students. That's cool. And the whole premise is like, "Yeah, okay, you like that song because you connect with it." But how can you connect with that more as you? Like, because you're not David Bowie, so you didn't write that song. You know what I mean? So let's work out a way that when people watch you, they're going to go, "Wow."

Like, not only is that you can sing, but all of a sudden, they're staring at it, like, paying attention because they're like, "You know what? You're connecting with me on a different level with this song." That's awesome. Which, I love. That's like, it brings me so much joy, you know? That's awesome. Why is that culture and that environment so important? Culture and environment? That specific culture and environment? Yeah, or your culture and environment and creating that place where people can be themselves. I think it's so important. I think, I don't want to get on a rant with this kind of stuff.

Nah, go nuts. But I think, like, in, you know, I think we live in a culture, holistically anyway, like, societal culture. Yeah. That's, like, it's kind of confused, I reckon. Yeah. Like, we're kind of confusing things all the time. So many different elements. Yeah. Which is why people get confused. Yeah, I reckon. And I don't think anyone's doing anything wrong. I think, I think there's a lot of people with a negative mindset. Like, you know, social media, you know, it's like, yeah, like, I can see the pros and the cons to everything. Yeah. We need to create spaces and, and environments where actually, you know what, people can feel free to be themselves and express themselves the way they want.

Definitely. And yeah, it's like that saying, like, "Trust me, your passion looks good." And yeah, I think often we rank things now. Yeah. It's like, we're ranking everything that we do. It's like, "Oh, but that person does that. And they're up on the top of the ladder." So I think my passion is like, like, I'm not a singer. Not as important or not as good. I don't really want to write music. Yeah. So my passion is sort of down here. Yeah. It's like, no, actually, like, let's create a culture where no matter what you're passionate about, there's no ranking of it.

It's sort of just like, well, that's what you're passionate about. So let's do it. Let's do it. Let's explore. Which I think is important. I think everyone needs that, you know? Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, going back to that, and I'm sure you guys see it here a lot. But like, once someone like realises that or feels free to express it, I think that's what it is. I feel like people know their passion, but they're often too scared to express it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And once they feel free, then they, they will suddenly like, glow.

They're like this different kind of person. They might be still doing the same job. Yeah. But they found what it is that they're like, "Actually, you know what? I care about that." Yeah. This is what makes it different to just showing up. Yeah. It's being present and actually enjoying the things that you do day to day. Totally. And I'm sure you're someone who loves your job. Love it. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, I love it. Tell me about your other job. It's a little bit different. It is a little bit different. So I work for a social enterprise.

Yeah. They're called Project Rocket. And I've worked for them for three, coming up to three years. And we're, so we're Australia's youth driven movement against bullying, hate and prejudice. That's our thing. And basically, our vision is that we imagine a world where kindness and respect thrive over bullying, and allows a place where young people in particular, because we work with young people, feel like they're free to live to their potential, like express the things that they are. Yeah. And yeah, I do that pretty much every day. So I get to travel around Australia running workshops. That's really cool.

In schools, amongst a whole bunch of other things. Like at the moment, I'm working with YouTube, which is really cool. Yeah. And creating some content around young people and like what we want to chat about in school. So it's called Project Rocket TV. That's cool. Yeah, it's really cool. So I do that every day, too, which is keeping me super busy. But I find like the link for me is like, as long as I'm working in a place where where culture is shifting and culture is changing, like that's where I need to be, you know, I need to be in a place where we can start build culture.

And I feel like, you know, you can get into schools and young people. So it starts. Yeah, that's where it's at. Like, if young people honestly grab hold of that passion, like I say, and like, run with that. Like, can you imagine like, yeah, you know, it's insane. Like, what could happen? Or what could change? You know, what are the main lessons that you when you go into schools that you want to teach and you want to get out of people? Yeah, cool. So kids, that's a really good point. I think like the biggest thing for us.

So Project Rocket was started 10 years ago, like a couple of sisters few things have changed since then. Yeah. And they started it and they were sort of like, pretty fresh out of school and were like to themselves. You know what, you know what didn't work for us? You know, like the people that came and just yelled at us or the people that made us feel guilty or like that just shut us off doesn't foster growth. It doesn't encourage anyone. So they created no, like, why don't we do it? And that's like kind of attitude like you guys have done or in stone, right?

Something that's different. Yeah, like, why don't we just do it? It's like, okay, let's do it. And then they did it. And then 10 years later was still doing it. So they started off as like, just doing anti bullying, but we do a lot of like cyber related bullying stuff. So like, but not going in and telling you that the internet's bad, like we use it every day. So it's like equipping young people with ways that they can actually stand up for themselves or a mate without facing any social risk for themselves. Like we often talk about it like it's, you know, often people like blame the technology.

Like, why isn't Facebook doing anything? You know, like, why isn't Instagram doing it? But essentially, it's kind of like, it's like the social issues or the same social constructs that we've had. Yeah. That are just playing out in a new way. It's just a different medium that they're being portrayed on, I guess. I don't think it's, I think a lot of time we're focusing on the technology when we could be equipping young people is actually how do we create a culture online that we want to be a part of? Yeah. And I guess that's what we're doing.

Like we're encouraging young people to do, which is really cool. Yeah. That is really cool. What are the main areas you feel as though we need to improve as a society and as I guess, younger people in online, how can we improve to stop that, I guess, hate and prejudice and stuff from growing? And yeah, that's a really good question. I think I'm, I think the easiest thing is to not easy. Again, simple versus easy. The simplest thing is to ask yourself when you see something that maybe goes against who you are in the online world.

You're like, I'm sure we've all had this moment. I know I have. You're like scrolling through your newsfeed and you like see something, by the way, for the podcast people, I am doing this. It's going through your newsfeed and you're like, Oh yeah. I don't want that because that's a bit mean. Yeah. But then you're like, keep scrolling. And it's not because we're bad people. It's because we're like, what the heck do I do? Yeah. I just saw it. So like, do I have, but like the biggest thing is like asking yourself the impact. And

the way we ask it at school is like, when you see something go down, like ask yourself, like, am I going to be part of the problem or solution? And that's a big question. But essentially it's like, the problem is just ignoring it or like sharing it to our mates. The solution could be as easy as like reporting it or even like reaching out to the person it was about and being like, Hey, I saw someone comment on your thing. That's not cool. Like it was gross. And I just want to let you know, like I saw it and didn't think it was cool.

And like, it's, that is easy, right? Like you're not risking anything for yourself. Um, you haven't shown anyone that you're, you know, Hey, look at me. I'm trying to start an argument. Yeah. You're just like, actually, you know what? I have an impact. That's not okay. Yeah. And I'm going to try and do something about this. One of the quotes we've actually got written up on the wall or printed up on the wall is the standards we walk past the standards we accept. And for us, we use it in our environment for all the things we do.

But I think it's, it's one of those, I think David Hurley said it is it's one of those things that can be, if you think of that quote and you see something that, Hey, I'm not okay with that, you can make an impact straight away. And so many people kind of go, Oh, no, I can't help. Or like, my voice isn't going to be heard or there's no point, but it takes, you change the world by helping one person at a time. And I think that's really, really important for kids these days, kids these days

for younger generations and for all of us who growing up with this new social media, it's that if we see something we don't like, make a change or tell your opinion or tell someone, hey, that's not okay. Yeah. And that's how we move forward. And that's how we improve. Exactly. Like social media is one of those things that's looked at so negatively. Yeah. And I had a really good chat with one of the guys last week in the podcast about it. But we just, it's one of those things that it's here, whether we like it or not.

Yeah, we've got to figure out how we can turn it into a positive, positive result for everyone. That's something you guys are doing daily. Passionate about it too. Yeah. Yeah. How important is that passion to be doing something that makes a change? Yeah, I think it's massive. I think well, I mean, we're all different, right? Like, we're all driven by different things. But I can only speak personally about it. But um, for me, like, like, I want nothing more than to do that. Yeah. I see a difference too in like, creating, like, creating change for yourself or creating changes for others and for long lasting.

I feel like I've done both in my time, you know, like, done music and things like that. And the biggest amount of impact on my life has been that gradual change in others. Like, it's nothing to do with me. Like, no one, you know, if a young person stood up for someone, like, I'm not gonna know about it. But yeah, I'm happy to, by the fact that I was able to, like, be the person that instilled that change or encourage that change. Kind of like you guys, like, you probably don't see half the results of the stuff.

You might see the physical results. But yeah, you know, at home with these guys, like going, Hey, you know what, like, because they've been trained three times, they get motivated now to be better like this. And it's cool, because we get some messages sometimes and, and just from people, individual messages, and it might be, hey, I went for a hike for 20 minutes or an hour or two hours that I didn't think I could do six months ago. And it's those little changes that we don't see all the time. And we, but just getting that little bit of feedback, say, hey, what you're doing is actually making a difference.

It's really, really cool. And how inspiring for you, right? Like, yes, you do this every day. It reminds you why you do it. Yeah, you wake up at five o'clock, like you said earlier to me, like, to get here in the morning, and it's pitch black in the middle of winter is not easy. And it's like, that's why you do it. You don't do it for other people to go, Hey, man, good job. Yeah, you're doing it because actually that that that stuff lasts like that stuff is going to be long lasting. It's not just going to be that, hey, here's what I did this week.

Yeah. You know what, here's what I did this week to create something that might happen for the next year. Yeah, next 12 months, 10 years time. Yeah, like one of my goals. We focus mostly around movement and strength. One of my goals is for everyone to be happy, healthy and be able to deadlift when they're when they're 100. So it's not something I'm not gonna know. Yeah, they're deadlifting when they're happy and healthy when they're 100. I hope I still know most of them. But it's one of those things that it you foster an environment where people want to grow and improve.

And then it's that snowball effect. And I'm sure everyone that you speak to in schools, you have that lasting effect on all these kids that they're going to look at the situation differently next time and time after that. That's really cool. I think like, even with that with you guys, when you get people in, like, it's not about like focusing on where people have been in the past. So like the times that they've made a decision maybe wasn't the right decision. It's like, it's not who cares? Like, we're gonna be perfect. Just learning from each of those experiences.

Yeah. And it's a difference between like making an instant change or just a gradual kind of cultural change. Yeah, it's that, you know, it's like, well, next time you see it, like, have a think. And you still might make a bad decision. You still might make, I do it every day. I make crap decisions all the time. Yeah, of course. But I can then go, Okay, cool. Just ask yourself the same question tomorrow. And be better. It's like you said to me before, one of your catch cries is be better, right? #bebetter. Yeah, it's the same thing.

Like, okay, could have done that a little bit better. Tomorrow I'll do better. And the next day, you might do a bit better. Next decision you face or whatever. Yeah. And it's just that gradual improvement. Every step you walk up, you're just gonna get a little bit closer to where you want to get to. Totally. I think we live in such like an instant, I was having a chat the other day with someone about it, but it's such like we live in such an instant gratification. I want it now. Yeah. Not only do I want it now, but can you give me feedback now?

Tell me now. Yeah. But it's like, if we use that instant feedback that we get to improve, like imagine like, we would all be living such like extraordinary lives, you know, because we'd be like, okay, cool. That didn't work. You know, move on. Yeah, next day be better. Yeah, I think that's cool. It doesn't it doesn't take. Yeah, it doesn't take six weeks or six months. It's a lifetime of constantly improving and being better. And as soon as we start looking past and from our industry, those six, eight week, 12 week challenges, or hey, I'm

just gonna go on a diet for next six weeks or something like that, when we start looking at well, yeah, I want to be strong and happy and deadlifting when I'm 100, then every decision is a long term decision. And it's a sustainable decision. And it's a something that you can we can actually change down the track. And that's how we improve that social media and that that reaction to social media, rather than just going, oh, it's it's no good. It's a negative thing. We can't improve it. Yeah. I think as soon as you put something in that negative box, it's like, well, then what's the point?

What's the point? You know, like, why? How can we leverage it? Yeah. How can you make a positive play? Exactly. Exactly. That's really cool. What are the main challenges you face day to day in either job? Both jobs? What are the main challenges you face? I think start with Instone. Okay. The main challenges, I think sometimes there's like different challenges. Obviously, there's challenges when you're coaching or like teaching. But to be honest, I love those challenges. So I don't really go, oh, that's a challenge. I'm like, yeah, awesome. Challenges are things that help us to improve.

So it's a win. Yeah, it's a win. But I'd say like the biggest challenge is like is, and I'm not sure how you get, like, I'd love to hear your opinion on this, but like staying motivated in what you do and just being like, you know what, like, even though I can't see the results today and like, you know, crap happened today, you know, you know, for example, you might have like a student moved away. Yeah. Damn, I lost a student. Yeah. They're awesome. They'll keep them goals. And it's like, keeping yourself on track being like, you know, that's not what it's about.

Yeah. Like you're still in their life x amount of time. And hopefully whatever happened during that time inspire them to keep doing it. Yeah. I think that for me is my biggest challenge. Cool. Obviously, because in stone at the moment, it's like, essentially just me. It's like, some days you wake up, you know, I want to do more. I want more of this, you know, frustrated that lack of Yeah, lack of progress. But yeah, hard work only pays off in the long run. You got to keep working hard. Exactly. What about you guys? Like, how do you find that?

Like, what's what, which I'm gonna flip it on. I'm gonna flip this. Good for you. What's your biggest challenges like every day? I guess that's probably very, very similar. Yeah, finding that constant motivation and those things that allow you to keep making a change day in day out, like, we use the phrase that we're experts in behaviour change, because we want to see people who come in, they want to achieve x. And we go, well, how can we change their behaviour to get them to that? And motivation, like said, is one of the biggest issues,

because motivation, ebbs and flows, it goes up and down, there's some days where we we wake up and we're like, shit, yeah, I can't wait to, to get out of bed today and get moving. There's some days you wake up just like, Oh, not again, you got to get out of bed. I'm in the middle of winter, it's pitch black, it's 20 past five, and I've got to get out of bed and get to work. But one of the and I'm a big quote guy. So like, I tend to have little quotes that keep me going, or that kind of remind me of why I do what I do.

But I think the biggest thing for motivation and for change is action kick starts that motivation. So your action, you actually getting out of bed and getting to work drives that motivation. Like, no one regrets, I guess, going for a walk afterwards. I wish I didn't spend that 20 minutes going for a walk. No one regrets going to the gym. I wish I didn't go on train for that half an hour. Yeah, no one. If they get up and they're going to do something they're passionate about something they love. No one goes, I wish I stayed in bed.

Because once we actually once we actually use that action to drive the motivation, we're motivated for the rest of the day or for the next session or for whatever it is. And I'm sure it's probably very, very similar with you guys when if you if you get someone in who's, I guess, self conscious and scared of putting themselves on a recording or put or singing in front of other people, then once they do it, very rarely do they actually regret it. That's a learning point for them. And it's a learning experience for them where they go, well, here's what I didn't do very well.

But here's what I did do very well. Here's how I can improve and get better. I like that. And sometimes it's not even about that. It's like, just you did it. Yeah. Good job. You know, yeah, that's enough motivation. You learn from it, we go again. Yeah. So I think that motivation is probably our hardest thing. And especially from a movement point of view and an exercise point of view. And we talk about holistic well being, being, you know, your sleep, your stress, your food, nutrition, not being in pain, all of these different things. But this time of the year is horrible for motivation, because it's cold, it's wet, it's dark in the mornings, it's dark at night.

And we tend to have that kind of winter blues for lack of a better term. So finding those those little wins that and like I said, it's like I said before, it's simple, it's not easy, but finding those little wins and those little things that keep driving you to improve and to be better and to move through those steps to get to where you want to get to. That's where it comes from. And if we if we have a goal that means enough to us for us to make those little changes and make those extra steps, then we're going to get there.

But if we have a goal that kind of half assed, and we don't know if we really want to, or anything like that, that's where we can fall down. Yeah. And I think finding the ability to set those goals the right way, and to actually identify what it is you really, really want, that's going to get us there. And we asked the question, what are your goals? But then we asked why. And we keep pestering and going, why, why, why? And usually it ends up being something really simple, like, I don't want to be in pain anymore, or I want to feel better about myself, or I want to make the world a better place.

And once we identify what that why is, then we can start, let's work towards it. And everything they do comes back to that little why, which keeps that motivation going. That answer your question? Yeah. I like what you said about like, asking why I feel like, I feel like the best thing to do is quit. I feel like the worst thing to do is to not question something. Yeah. Like, there's people like, oh, you don't want to question everything. That's like, yeah, imagine if you did. Imagine if you're like, yeah, why am I doing this? Like, yeah, imagine like, what you get down to, you get down to like the root of everything.

Like, okay, I'm doing this because I want to do this. Exactly. And I love the dive into people's goals, because it could be so easy to just be like, cool, I got your goal. Let's let's make it happen. I want to get fitter. Why do you want to get fitter? What does that actually mean to you? Because I think too many people do things because they think they should, or they think they have to, or it's someone else's preconceived notion that, well, you should be skinnier, or you should be doing this job, or you should be doing this.

And it doesn't stop at exercise. Like, it's what you do for work, what you do when in your free time, all these little things that if we're just doing something because someone else wants us to do it, or because we feel as though someone else wants us to do it, we're not going to have that underlying motivation and drive to get there. But if we actually stop and think, well, why am I in this job that I hate? And you don't have a good reason. Well, what do I want to do? And you might not know what you want to do.

But if we can start going, well, what's going to get me to knowing? We use a little three step process with goals. And usually that third step doesn't open itself up until we hit the first step, or until we hit the second step. And then that third step starts opening up, and that fourth step starts opening up, and then we can start getting there. So like, for example, I know where I want to take Virtus in, you know, five, 10, 15 years. I don't know all the steps. But I know that the next step is improving certain little things that happen day to day that will help me get there.

So yeah, and that's something that it's a process. That's awesome. There's no quick answer. There's no quick fix. Anything was worth having isn't gonna happen straight away. If there's anything I've gotten out of this podcast, it's like we keep referring back to like the idea of like simple but not easy. The same thing. Simple is the fact that I know where we want to go. It's like you've got to take the process to get there. Yeah, exactly. And we go back to what we're doing here. If someone wants to improve and we can go to singing, sorry.

If someone wants to improve what they're doing, well, yeah, we want to, if they want to lose weight, we need to eat better food and fuel your body. We need to move more often. We need to make sure we're sleeping. We need to make sure we're not stressed. We need to make sure that we're hydrated all day. But, and they're simple things, but they're so hard to tick all those boxes and to keep ourselves motivated and moving towards it. Yeah. So yeah, it takes a little bit of time. Yeah, that's awesome. What's your end goal? My end goal?

Yeah. I think my end goal, and I'm going to talk like holistically, not just, not just in terms of like in stone, because I think like my end goal is like beyond that. For me, my end goal is like, I've always lived by this idea that like, if I can create, if I can be a part of something that creates cultural change for the rest of my life, I'm stoked with that. I had someone ask me the other day, because obviously I studied youth work and work with young people. They're like, what happens when you get old?

And I was like, yeah, good point. No, I was like, yeah, look, I don't, my, my passion isn't young people. Like, yeah, personally, my passion is the change. Yeah, that's cool. I'm like, so there might come an end time to that, like where I can't wake up in the morning and go to a school every day because they're like, who is this old fart teaching me about bullying? You know, he doesn't know the internet, but then who knows? Like I might be in, in a, you know, somewhere else creating change. And, um, and then for

even, for example, like when, you know, I've always already felt like when I get like an old person, I feel like with my nature, I'll still be like in the nursing home and be like, all right, guys, here's how we're going to improve. How can we do something great? I think that's the end goal. And, um, it's, it goes back to like my favorite saying that I randomly said in a speech one day, which was like, trust me, your passion looks good in here. I feel like if you wear it all the time, your job doesn't, it's not that it doesn't matter, but it's that you always go to the job that's right in that time.

Yeah. You know, it might not be the same thing. Like, you know, Virtus might be around for the next hundred years, hopefully for you guys, you know, but for other people, maybe like, you know, for project rocket, for example, like, I don't know if I'll be there for the next hundred years, but the next thing that I moved to will still be in the same kind of area. And I think in stone is the same. Like I'd love it to be around for the next hundred years, but who knows? Like, you know, it might not

be, or it might be, but, um, the end goal for me is to continue making culture wherever you go, like continue to, and it's not up to you to make the culture. It's up to you to inspire other people to create that culture. And if that means you have to let go of something because someone else is taking it or someone else has got the culture better than you, you've got to be prepared to be, to swallow your pride and be like, okay, my pride says I created this, but also my pride says that that was the goal and I've done it.

Take that box and move on. Yeah. You can run with that goal. I'm going to move on and start to inspire someone else now to create culture. Yeah. So that was a long-winded answer. That's a good answer. Too many people go, well, like, and I could very easily fall into the trap of, well, this is Virtus. This is what I do. My goal is Virtus, but Virtus in stone, um, Project Rocket, they're all just vessels of improving this certain area that we want to improve and improving this part of society or the environment or the culture and, and using this as well, Virtus is how I help people exhibit positive behavioral change because that's what we do.

Um, in stone is you helping people become more creative and understand what it is that makes them tick. So I think when that's, that was a really good answer because coming back to this is why I do it. And like, I think I try and think really deeply about my why. And there's a book by Simon Snet. It's called Start With Why. That's actually sitting on the desk over there that, that I'll like, I try and come back to fairly regularly because if you remember why you do something, it makes it so much easier to get to where you want to get to.

And that comes with work, you know, personal life, professional life, everything. It's really, really important. I've got a few questions for you and it can have everything to do with what we've spoken about or nothing or nothing. You can go wherever you want. It helps me think too. If you could give teenage you one piece of advice, what would it be? Yeah, that's, I'm, I'm flawed about this because I work with teenagers every day. My one piece of advice to myself, I could go back and be like, stop trying to be cool. Like, just be yourself, man.

Like I spent, and I'm sure there's a lot of us do it, but you spent so long just trying to fit in and it's human nature. Like we want to fit in. But I just wish I could, like, for example, I can like really remember like hanging out, like at school with like a group of people that were like, no, the cool kids, you know, I was part of that group, but they'll do some things I disagree with. But also I really just wanted to be in the music room, just like geeking out and playing some piano and like making up stuff that I would pretend like I wasn't.

It's not, and it's not, there's anything wrong with either of those. My advice to my teenage self would be just do what you want. Like if that's the thing that you can make sure you every day go, that's what I want to do. I should have been doing it instead of like, I can't play footy, but let's go pretend. Yeah. Well, this is not what I want to do. So let's go do what I want to do. Yeah. That's it. Let's narrow that down. It's easy to fall into that trap. And so many people do it, but good answer.

What's the nicest thing you've ever done for someone? Is that meant to be easy questions? No, you nailed it. Right. I think two copies of this answer. The nicest thing I've ever done. It's so hard. I always grapple with the idea of like, not realising that you're nice. Like being like, oh, I've done nice things. Nicest thing that I've done single thing for you, or I can, I think I love believing in people. I think that's an, and if that's genuine, I think you can tell if someone's authentically believing in what you're saying or if they're like, oh, that's great.

But I generally do, like when I meet people and like, wow, what you're doing is awesome. Like, how can I support you or like get behind you on that? And, um, if that's like, and that's kind of collective, like I just, it's not everyone. I mean, you're not going to meet everyone and be like, I don't believe in what you're doing, but you do meet a lot of people where you're like, well, that's awesome. It's like, how can I get behind you? And I think that's the nicest thing you can do for someone. I think if everyone had someone believing in them like that much, imagine like take the idea of like the passion, the simple thing that isn't easy.

And then one person that's going, yeah, cool. Do it. Just pull the trigger and make it happen. I'm going to be there to make sure you're doing it. Like the accountability option. I think imagine that like everyone would be doing it because I'd have that one person to rely on that can be like, and I guess that's kind of what you guys do as coaches. It's like, they might be like, oh, I can't do it. And you're standing there going, you're going to do it. Yeah. I know you don't think you can, but right now you're going to do it.

And then they do it and then they take it off and big smile on their face and they're like, oh, I can do it. Cause we, we all tell ourselves we can't do things and things like that. One of my favorite, like, I'm still in your answer a little bit, but one of my favorite things that has happened in here, probably we've got four or five now is clients of mine that have been in a different job or something like that. And they've come to me and gone, I want to do what you do. They, they see that the passion that we have every day and they find their passion in something very similar.

And they come in and say, I want to do what you do. And seeing them actually, and I'm there as I guess their support network or they're someone to keep them accountable to, they want to make that change. But we've, I've had probably four or five clients go from doing what they do day to day to being coaches and personal trainers, performance coaches, things like that. And all it takes is someone to go, I believe in what you do. And I believe that if you want to do it, you'll work hard enough to get there. And they've been able to make that change.

And yeah, I think too many people sit there in a job they don't like or doing something that they're not passionate about because they feel as though they don't have another, another option. And it doesn't take that much. And yes, you might be uncomfortable. And I, and I guess we all have responsibilities that is it worth giving up those responsibilities or putting those responsibilities in jeopardy to get where we want to. And you know, most of the time it's a resounding yes. There's going to be obviously times where people have families and different things that

are going on, but if we actually find what we want to do and move towards it, it's never going to be, most of the times can be positive. Yeah. I love that. Next one. That'd be so cool. Yeah. Okay. What is success to you? Geez, you really, you really nailed these type of questions. I like these questions. Yeah. Do you give these to everyone? I mix it up a little bit. Yeah. All right. What does success mean for me? I think it goes back to that. What was the first question you asked me? If you could give a teenager one piece of advice.

Yeah. I think it goes back to like success for me is like, if I could, and like obviously we've been speaking a lot about like Project Rocket and Englandstone, but like always trying like you go back to the, why am I doing it? And it's like, I think for me, success isn't like monetary, like, or Hey, look what we've created. Yeah. Here's my brand, which is, that's cool. It's a part of it, but to me, this success doesn't lie there. Like, um, if I can live more authentically every day and stick by those things, even

like when you said, even when it's hard and there's that moment of like, this isn't easy, but if I keep pushing through the next success, it doesn't matter where you get to, but the successes that you've done it. Yeah. The successes isn't the end result. The success is the part that got you to the result. Exactly. And because once you get to the result, what's going to happen? I want more. I want something else. Which is right. That's like human nature, right? But we're like that sometimes if our goal is money or a idea of success to me, anyway, I'm not speaking for everyone who's listening, but, um, if you got this far, okay.

Um, but like, you know, a lot of people might be like, my goal this year is to make a hundred K and they might make a hundred K they get to a hundred K they're like, I've spent it all. I need 120K, which is fine, but it's like your goal is monetary. It's actually physical. I think we, all our goals aren't physical goals. Like my goal is to be authentic or my goal is to be honest or then that striving for more is really healthy because the success is in the part that got you to that moment.

Yeah. And you actually enjoy that every day and being and doing what you do. Yeah. I think, yeah. And I think you're saying that even when we go back to what we were saying before about the clients that have come back to you and have changed, like even for them, I'm sure every day, their success looks completely different now. Like, and they might've thought at the time that their success is I'm doing this job and this is going to be my success point. And it's like, by meeting you and getting a part of culture, they've gone, you know what, actually, no success for me is this and, you know, success looks different on anyone, but, um, yeah.

Anyway, I'll rant about that. Let's move on. What's the last book you read start to finish? Oh, I'm a terrible reader. Let's be honest. I listen to a lot of like audio podcasts. What was the main teaching point in the last podcast you listened to? Okay. The last podcast I listened to actually listened to one on the car, on the car, in the car. And it was about the music industry in Nashville, which is so removed from me. I've never been there, but, um, and I think that like the biggest, uh, I'm trying to think of like the biggest takeaway that I went, ah, that's cool.

Yeah. Um, it was like, it was an interview with like a band manager, like someone who like manages bands every day. Yeah. Um, and I think they said this thing, it's like a lot of people come over and they just want anything to do with that industry. They're like, I'll just do anything. Like give me any job. I just want a foot in the door, which is awesome. My foot in the doors are great, but I think the learning was like, no, she was like, she's like, no, if you tell me that, like that's no, I want you to tell me exactly what it is.

This is what I want to be doing. That was my biggest learning. It was like, you know what, like sometimes we can be so broad, like as long as I do something in the field of X. Every first year exercise science student, I love sport and that's it. And I'm sure it's probably the same for most music degrees. I just love music. Well, yeah, you love music, but what is it that you really want to do? What are you really passionate about? What will you bang down the door to get? Yeah. And I mean, yeah, if you go back to music, there's people like that and it's like, if they come down to it, they're like, oh, I love songwriting.

Yeah. So, well, that's completely different to just learning, doing a guitar degree. Like you need to think, how can I use my guitar degree to be a songwriter? You know, I thought that was the biggest learning. Good. Yeah. Who are your biggest influences? Ooh, that's a really good question. So I got a few, I think the biggest influences or my like bosses at work, the two sisters, they're massive influence on me. Like I feel like Insta would have even been a thing if I wasn't a part of their culture first. And then also like in other fields, I love Casey Neistat, who's a video vlogger.

Heaps of people love him, but like also I don't want to sound like I'm on a bandwagon, but I don't know. He just, he's got this, well, one, he always rants about creativity, which I like, but also I can just see how much he's creating cultural change just by doing a vlog every day. It's like, that's crazy. Like you can actually create people to be inspired just by showing them what you do. And then a singer named Alan Stone. He's from the US, but he's this, he's a soul singer. And I've been to a few

of his shows when he's come down, but he's got this real humble approach to music where he's like, not only do I love music, but I'm going to play 300 shows a year because it's about the audience. It's about like, how do I connect with you guys? I was going with a gift to connect with people and this is how I'm going to do it. And I thought that was so cool. So many musicians like I'm going to make cool songs and you can buy it. He's not expecting you to buy it. He's just like, I'm just going to rock up.

I'm going to play my best. You're going to have the best night of your life. And then we do it again tomorrow night. Which is inspiring. You know, so someone like that inspires me. Can I ask you the same question? That's a good question. I haven't thought of an answer to this question. My influences probably recently over the last two years, it's been, it's been Joe Rogan as one of them. Obviously this is, he's one of the reasons I started this podcast. He's someone that you see his passion or you hear his passion every time he talks to all the different people he talks to.

And I guess the thing I love about him is yes, he shares some of my values and things, but he talks to so many different people about so many different things. So I guess it opens up all of these different avenues and parts of the world and parts of society that you don't really know exists before you hear it. And you know, he's probably pretty similar in terms of the amount of shows. Like you hear about how many shows he does and he does almost every night. He does, he's up to like a thousand podcasts and things like that.

And he's like far out. It's just that constant accumulation. And he talks so much about what he's passionate about and what he loves doing. So he's probably one of my biggest influences outside of, I guess, my environment, which is, which is kind of cool. Like I love jumping in the car, even just for 10 minutes and listening to part of his podcast. My biggest influences in terms of strength and conditioning and what I do day to day, first of all, the people around me, so all of our coaches and Greg, our physio and Ash, our my own Brooke, our bloodies instructor, everyone around me day to day influenced me to be better and help me improve.

Clients is probably a big one as well. Like I said before, like that's what I love about coaching. Like I'll work to the bone to see more people with coaching because every hour you spend time with someone, you get to hear about their day, hear about their week, you get to learn from them as well as helping them improve. Yeah. So that's a big one. Strength and conditioning coaches all around the world that I listen to podcasts, things like that. So Joe DeFranco, Mike Boyle. So many Christian Woodford is one of the big one down local.

Yeah, all of the coaches that I've learned from over the last seven or eight years of being in the industry or thinking about moving into the industry, they're probably the ones. Yeah, I could go on forever. Yeah. It's funny that right? Like people think about their influences, like even listening to you say those, it's like, I've given you like three that I'd like to think about, but other because it's like, I watched one of Casey's videos before and so on the way here. Yeah. And it's like, you know what, like those influence, there's so many. And it depends on what part of my life they influenced me in like, like I'm like fairly opinionated person, a lot of different things.

And I love listening to like scientists and like, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson and Lawrence Krauss and yeah, and Richard Dawkins and stuff like that. And hearing them talk about their experiences and the way they look at the world kind of just opens things up for me. I guess anyone, an influencer for me is anyone that can make me think and this, everyone can do that. Like you've done that today. So that's, that's really cool. I think that's what it is. That influences are simple. It's these thoughts, like if they're making you think more than that's that that's an influence.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Even if it's just a quote or a, you know, like we've got it, we got lots of quotes up on our wall, but there's a couple of Aristotle ones and hearing or reading one of his quotes and then going, I'm going to watch a documentary on Aristotle, like little things like that. They go, how can, how can this influencer help me or influence me to improve my life? And as simple as that. I always say like, you've got to be influenced to influence. You've got to be influenced by someone first before you can then go, oh, I've changed my thought now.

I'm going to influence other people about this. Yeah. And that ability to take in information and say, oh, what I had or what I believed beforehand wasn't the right thing. Yeah. And move forward and you grow from that. That's so important. So many people get stuck in this is what I know and this is what I know and that's it. That's why I think like open mindedness is such a key value. Like if you can, if you can actually have genuine open mindedness like, wow, you're learning just goes all of a sudden you're like, Hey, you know what?

Like I was wrong. Yeah. I did like, I do little two, three minute clips on how we can be better every day. And part of this podcast is the Be Better series. And one of them was here's three things we need to say more often. We need to say, I don't know, uh, I was wrong and we need to be able to ask for help. And those are three things. And one of the things that my first business build and burn, which is basically like the preconception of vertice. Um, my favorite saying was strength is King.

And you know, now we are, here we are a couple of years later and now I was wrong. Strength isn't King. Strength is incredibly important. Everyone needs to be strong, but movement comes first and being able to learn and being able to improve from that has that, that's what influences me to be better. It's really, really simple. All right. A couple of favorites for you. Go. What's your favorite quote? My favorite quote is Jimi Hendrix quote. Um, I feel like quotes change all the time, but it's the one that stuck with me the most and it's, um, to change the world.

We must first change our mind. Good. It's really good. Favorite movie or school of rock. I don't know. It's such a cliche, but I feel like if you put that movie on, I'm going to recite the entire, there's so many good one liners. I watched it again the other day and be like, Oh, and it relates to what you do day to day. I just remember being the same age as the kids on that movie being like, I want him to teach my class. I love that movie. Favorite recording artist of all time, which is a big question.

That's a huge question. Oh, favorite or of all time. Yeah. Oh, this is going to like divide it no matter the answer. Isn't it? Um, you're allowed one answer. Wow. Wow. This is probably the biggest question you've asked this whole podcast. Um, it's so different. Cause you could like, you could, you could be like Elvis cause like Elvis did Beatles cause they all created change or like Michael Jackson. But for me, biggest recording artists of all time. Actually for me, my favorite is John Mayer. And a lot of people that just think he writes swoon songs, but he, um, he's a great guitarist.

So, and he's recorded a lot of music. Yeah. Not all good. So for me, it's, that's my favorite cause he just keeps working. Nice. Favorite hobby day to day. If you have spare time, what do you do? What I do in my spare time? Uh, I really love to, uh, I love anything that uses my brain a little bit more. Um, so I like to write, uh, things like that. I've been recently getting into like writing like spoken word poems. Cool. Um, which I've never done before. Uh, just did one once and was like, that was, that was cool.

That's awesome. So yeah, I really enjoy like trying to write thoughts or like something different. Yeah. Like you said, like if I can start to think differently or listen to things and then write about it instead of writing a song, cause that's what I do every day. Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. Last one. If you could give one, every human on earth, one personality trait, what would it be? Kindness. Um, and that's pretty broad. That's why I chose that. Yeah. Kindness. Yeah. Awesome. Good answer. Where can people find your stuff? Where can people learn about in stone and learn about project rocket and things like that?

Well, they all have a website. So in stone, in stone, creative, one word in stone, one word creative.com. It's actually a new website launched this week, um, which is cool. Uh, and then project rocket is project rocket.com.au rockets spelt R O C K I T. Not like a rocket that goes in the sky. Um, and yeah, you can pretty much find any links to other things that way. Like on project rocket, you can link to the YouTube, which we did with Google and, um, on in stone, you can find all the other socials and stuff. So awesome.

Thank you very much. It's been so good. I feel inspired. Good from you. Thanks.