S2E13 · Change

if you have a desire behavior, find a place where that desire behavior is a normal behavior. Yeah. Change is hard. Like, force change is hard. Force change is maybe the wrong word. No, let's go with force change. I am here. I want to get there. That's force change. You have to actively do something. That is hard. That is difficult. Like, we are creatures of habit. We like our routine. We like our cycles. We like doing the same shit every day. Most of us. This is Simon who ate the same breakfast every day at school for six years.

Don't break. Don't fix it. And in this moment, I swear, we are infinite. Let's do this. Come on. Mounting. It's too damn hot for a penguin to be just walking around. Three, two, one, eagle. Are these two doctors? I'm afraid so. And here we go. Mr. Simon Cooper, welcome back to week eight of the Verse Performance podcast, season two. Hello. It was a beautiful Thursday morning. A bit grey outside, but that's okay. Promise of warm weather on the way. It doesn't matter if it's warm or if it's cold or if it's grey or if it's blue or orange.

It's a good day. Every day is a good day. The day is what you make it. All I know is that the weather is ever-changing, much like today's topic. You know what? One of the first things that Sally Ann said to me today, the weather's a-changin'. It does that. She also said changes a foot. Changes a foot. Did she actually say that? She did. She's, yeah. So today's topic, as you may have guessed by our little bit of banter that we started with, is change. More specifically, the hour of change, which as we know is Simon Cooper's mainstay.

It's his realm. If there was a cave labeled the change cave or the cave of change, that's where you'd live. Sure, yeah. I'd be standing out the front waving as people pass by. I want to start with a quote, which obviously, unlike me, but this is my favourite quote to do with change and to do with impermanence, which is a topic we're going to get into at some point if you let me talk, which is unlikely because this is your topic and this is the thing you love talking about, change. But here's the quote. Are you ready?

I'm ready. Are you sitting down? I am. Have you exhaled so that you're ready to hear it all? All right. So a man does not stand in the same river twice for he's not the same man and he's not the same river. Discuss. Good. I think Alton John said that. Probably. Sounds like something you'd say. Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. Change is constant. That's a quote followed up with a quote. I know it's a quote. Bob Dylan once said times they are changing. What else you got? I've got, I've got nothing. Let's just, let's leave it at Bob.

I'm just interrupting you again. And you keep, you keep doing this. Oh, you need to be like ready to respond to whatever changes I throw at you throughout this podcast. I need to be adaptive. That's the, if you could, if everyone could walk away from this conversation with one thing, just be adaptive. Yeah, no, I do. I do really like that quote. Yeah. Change is, change is constant. We're surrounded by it in the modern day as well. It is accelerating. I think like the advent of technology and the way that we are living means that we need to be more adaptive than ever in how we approach things.

If we look at, I guess, human history and we look at change happens, but maybe albeit slowly, but the last 20 years it has happened at a, the technical technological advancement and the advancement in our, in our scientific community has happened at an alarming rate. Maybe not an alarming rate, but at an expedient rate. And it's meant we've had to almost react to everything. Whereas, you know, previous generations, it took 20, 30 years for a new technology to take, take over. Whereas now, you know, Instagram, Facebook, you know, the social media side of things like

the iPhone, these different things have come in and taken over the world so quickly that it's almost like we don't necessarily have the same capacity to absorb and, you know, use them the right way. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Like 10,000 years ago, we had agricultural, like advancements in technology, which took thousands of years for us to implement. And now all of a sudden the curve has just gone, like skyrocketed. And it's like industrial age took decades and now the technological age took a year, a couple of years for things to really take on. And I think we're seeing that at the moment with, with social media, right?

Like it was, it's such a brilliant tool to bring people together and to connect. And, and now we're seeing what negative impact it can have, not only on individuals, but on like the mob mentality. I've got a frozen Lachlan. Oh, love that. Go again. You froze on me. Yep. Go. Which, which bit did I stop talking about? Mob mentality. Oh, so the mob mentality, but like social media now tells us, effectively tells us how to think and what to think. And we need to get to a point where it's a tool rather than it being a, almost a, I don't know what we're looking for, like a, a religion or a, a doctrine that we have to follow.

Yeah. It's like, I, just an example, like I was spending way too much time on Facebook, so I deleted it off my phone and I feel as though that's greatly increased my ability to think a little bit differently and to be a little less jaded around the things that are happening at the moment. Rather go, Oh, am I, could I delete Instagram off my phone? And I'm like, I don't want to delete Instagram, but I, even if I did want to, I'll be like, it will be really difficult for me to, and part of me is like, you know, the, the first podcast we promote on Instagram, the stuff we promote on Instagram.

So there's the justification there, but really that's a change that I don't know if I'd be able to make at the moment because it's become such a big tool, such a big part of my life. Yeah. Yes. That's interesting. It's almost like the, with all the technological advancements, including social media that have happened to us, it's been imposed on us and we've, as a response, we've adopted these things and they've become such integral parts of our lives all of a sudden. And that's kind of like what change is. It's something that is often, not all the time, often imposed on us and it happens very quickly.

And it challenges our ability to kind of like adapt and stay on our feet and integrate that into our own lives, whether that's, yeah, like social media has become such a big part of society now. And this is the thing with change. It can, it can be both good and sorry, it is neither good or bad. It just is. We decide whether it's good or bad. So the social media change, for example, we can choose which parts of it we decide to lean into and we decide to commit to, and we can decide which parts we got back out on one pack.

Same thing goes with any change we want to make in our lives. There's going to be good and bad to it. Like we talk about change in the gym or in the health and performance space. You need to give things up to change. You need to either do something different or you need to remove something from your life. So, you know, that can be viewed as good or bad. Like I want to drink a few more beers, but I also want to lose weight. Well, you can't have both. You've got to decide which change you want to make.

And I think that's the important part to understand with change is that it's neither good or bad. You have to just decide what meaning you assign to it. Yeah. It's our perception of change. It's going to happen one way or the other. You never, you're never going to stand still. One of the things I talk about in my workshop is around, I do, uh, it's around how to view change as a green light, as something to, um, it's see it as an opportunity as something to move toward rather than, and respond rather than react to it.

So rather than seeing it as a, as a red light to stop, put your hands up, um, and just kind of be static, uh, our perception of it needs to change to be, okay, this is an opportunity to do something different, um, to make, to make it better rather than to, uh, as, rather than seeing it as a threat to our current state of being. Definitely. Cause just, you know, I love the term impermanence and I think if we understand impermanence, we almost, I think it changes our relationship with change, um, or it alters our relationship with change.

Let's go with that. Like everything good or bad has a finite lifespan. Nothing, nothing lasts forever. Um, as much as, you know, we get into certain states of mind or we get into, you know, certain rhythm or flow or, you know, we want it to last forever. It's not going to, you're going to be happy. You're going to be sad. You're going to be everything in between. You know, there's going to be fluctuations. There's going to be ups and downs. There's, you know, the, the importance of understanding impermanence means that if we can go, okay, well, I know inherently that's going to happen.

I can take a step back when things are really bad. I can take a step back and have some perspective of, okay, this is such a small part of my life. Things are going to change for the better. It might take a week. It might take a month. It might take six months. It might take 12 months, but no feeling is final that we know. I love that quote, but the, we just need to keep going. Um, yeah. And whether, whether it's good or bad, that's the perception where you put on it, but then the perspective to go, you know, it's good time.

Like this is great, but it's not going to last forever. And this bad time or this tough time, this is great. It's not gonna last forever. What can I learn from it? How can I use it for the next, next stage of my life? This too shall pass. Oh, put that on a t-shirt. That got me through a marathon. Just that. Good. Yeah. Four hours of my life. So yeah. Um, and a lot of the time, like the, the perspective or the perception of change, uh, like let's say the given or the current state of

things in Australia or Victoria or the world, but in Victoria, like the, we have restrictions in place for, for, to control the, um, COVID pandemic and it sucks and it's changed. It's been imposed upon us, but it will pass. And there's still things within our control that we can, uh, that we can influence and make better. Um, just focusing on things like our, our habits or our own personal health and wellbeing will help us get through this, this time of uncertainty. And, um, yeah. And it's fascinating language, like the get through this. Yeah. We all, we almost, we, when things are tough, we can almost try and distract ourselves from the now by worrying, wondering what the future will help.

And I think the, the benefit of understanding that change is always, change is a constant and impermanence is, is a thing that even if it's hard, like let's learn to enjoy the suffering. Life is suffering Simon. So if we, if we understand that life is suffering, let's learn how to suffer, suffer gently, suffer greatly, suffer better. I don't know what word I'm looking for, but I think it's so important to take the good with the bad and, and be able to appreciate when things are hard, then, you know, you're almost coming into every challenge that

you try and overcome or every change that you try and make or any, every change that is forced upon you with a, with a mindset of, well, I'm, you know, this ain't going to last forever. Uh, if it's great, I'm going to enjoy it. If it's bad, I'm going to enjoy it, but I'm going to learn either way. Yes. Um, why do you think change is the only constant? It's the only thing that is guaranteed in the way in their lives. Why do you think there's such a, an adversity or an aversion to change? I

think it's probably the, I think it's the uncertainty part or the, uh, like let's call it the comfort zone or like the lack of control. Yeah. Lack of control. And I think like change means that there's, um, the system, our either internal system or external system is shifting, which puts us in unfamiliar territory. Uh, either like, let's say, let's give an example. Let's say that, um, I want to, I want to create change in my life, uh, in my health. Let's say that I'm not happy where I am now. And I want to change something, uh, where I am now is comfortable, but I'm not happy.

Like let's say I want to lose weight that, uh, that dissatisfaction that comes from that will drive me to change something. But that change that I initiate will put me in a position where I maybe am unfamiliar with, uh, what to do to lose weight, or it will mean that I have to do hard work, which maybe I'm unfamiliar with. So it's, it's exposing yourself. It's exposing yourself to a stimulus that you're not used to. Right. Yes. Yeah. It's just stress response. It's just now just adaptation, general adaptations syndrome in a nutshell. Yeah. There's a, there's a, uh, a model of change that, um, that I want to touch on quickly by Scott and Jeffle.

Oh, and it's often used in an organizational context, but I think it's like super relevant in a, in an individual or personal context as well. But the first kind of response to change that's externally imposed on us is to deny it. Um, like we don't want to accept that it's happening. Then we, we start to resist against it. Um, and we kind of bring the focus into ourselves and we start to think, Oh, okay. Like it's happening. I've kind of accepted that it's happening, but I don't want it to happen. And then we, once we, once we've kind of gotten through the resistance part, we start to explore the change a little bit and see, okay.

Uh, let's see what this change is. Like, let's see what the, what influence I can have over the environments and where I'm kind of going. And then you can commit to a chat, commit to the change. You've so it's effectively like the stages of grief, like which most people would understand. It's this, it's the same thing. It's, it's, you know, pushing against it, accepting it and then go, okay, what can we do with it? Yes. Do you think the, the people who are, I don't want to say necessarily higher capacity individuals, but I'm going to

say that anyway, the higher capacity individuals are the ones that are able to get from point, point step one, step five quicker and with less friction and with more, almost like excitement and, uh, and acceptance. I think a big part of that is having a growth mindset. And we've spoken about it before Carol Dweck's book mindset, uh, but having a growth mindset is understanding that things aren't static. It's in there somewhere. I think, I think yeah, understanding that things aren't static and knowing everything's fluid. It's all malleable. Yeah. And that there is growth to be made.

Um, and those individuals will be more resilient to, to change, to adversity. Um, when they're exposed to things that they're unfamiliar with, then they'll step into that and think of it as an opportunity to learn rather than shift away from it and have the, uh, the impression that change is bad and I don't want to learn from it. I don't, I don't, I'm just happy the way things are the status quo. Yeah. I don't know. I think like personally, I go, okay, well, what is the worst thing I could imagine for myself from a transformational developmental perspective?

And it's to be the same version of myself that I am now in three years or five years or whatever. Yep. Um, why do you think so many people almost want to stay the same? Is it because is it the comfort thing? Is it the adversity to challenge? Is it the safety, almost the safety component of it? Yeah. It's human nature to want to be better. Um, but we see so many people either fall down in that pursuit or don't begin the pursuit in the first place. Yeah. I think definitely like the safety element is a big part of it.

Yep. People are comfortable with what they know. Um, like, uh, physiologically we, uh, towards safety, like we, um, move away. Yeah. And that's where we, we want to live in homeostasis, right? So anything that challenges that is, um, like physiologically our system says, Oh, that's bad. Let's move away from it. But in the pursuit of growth, the pursuit of being better, we have to, uh, expose ourselves to stimulus that forces to grow or adapt. Yeah. Um, we see that in the gym, right? Definitely. Definitely. Like it's almost like, you know, I think we've talked about

it a few times throughout the season, but it's almost going back to old mate, Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs and going, okay, well, where are we currently placed in this hierarchy? Like are our physiological needs being met? We have food and water, et cetera. If we do sweet, are our safety needs being met? Do we have a roof over our head? Yes or no? Like, do we feel like we're, we're loved and do we feel like we belong? Yes. Great. Then, you know, the esteem needs, do we, are we feel positive? Do we feel like confident in our ability to do things?

If all of those are ticked off, it's almost like, all right, sweet. Now we're open to change. Yes. And it's once we, once this, then that, like the, we need to be at that place, um, mentally, physically, physiologically, psychologically, to be able to then go, all right, let's, let's grow our capacity in, you know, our physical capabilities or our mental capabilities or, you know, in our career, whatever it may be, how can I self-actualize and grow the person I am? Definitely. So, so potentially it's a, it's like the stages of change model, you could mix

those in, like, are we ready to change or are we, are we still in pre-contemplation or are we, you know, in a, in a, in a state where we, we're kind of thinking about it, but we're kind of not ready. Yeah. And it's a, it's a fluid, that's a fluid conversation because there's days where our belongingness isn't being met for whatever reason. There's days where we, all we want to do is stick our head under the, under the dinner and knock it out of bed. But I think the, almost the, the fallback or the, um, the mindset we should shift towards is how can I move the needle today?

Even if it's the tiniest little movement, how can I move my needle? And how can I move forward and grow and change for the better? Yeah, that's the thing. Like nobody wants to, nobody wants their, the lower levels of the pyramid to be challenged really. Like we, we don't often willingly expose ourselves to change in those areas. Um, so, and I guess it's easy for us to sit here and talk about self-actualization where we have access to the internet and we've got a roof over the house and we, we got a family that loves, loves us.

And we're, we're not talking from the finish line, but we're, we're talking from a place where those, you know, those first, those four blocks of needs are almost met indefinitely. Obviously we go through stages of self doubt and of frustration, but ultimately we have the support networks around us. And most people listening to this podcast who, you know, live in a, live in places where they have access to the internet and access to a phone that has a podcast app and access to YouTube and things like that. Most of us don't have a problem with the first couple of boxes.

Um, but there's going to be times where we do. And it's almost like, it's almost like we take stock of what we've got. We try and help others up to that stage. Cause you know, the, the dream would be 7 billion people in the world, all in the self-actualization phase going, how can we make our, our own world better, but then the world as a, as a collective, that's the dream. Yes. Yeah, totally. That's my dream. It's a worthy dream. We were all in pursuit of, of things that will make us better as a, as a global community.

Yeah. As individuals and as a collective, like how cool would that world be? Um, and I, and I think there's definitely pockets of that. Like there's pockets of affluence that, you know, the, the physiological needs and the safety needs are kind of taken out of the question. There's always, there's always, uh, outliers and, you know, there's unfortunately there's bad things that happen in places of affluence, but, um, you know, I would like to think that the majority of the world, and there are bad people, some people are just comfy, but the majority of the world, the majority of the world want the best for themselves and their friends and their family and the people around.

So if we ignore the, those other people for, for a moment, then all of our focus should be on, should be on how do we make what we have now and the might be getting off track a little bit here, but I, I there's nothing that frustrates me more than like the back in my day, things were so tough. Like the goal of the human race should be to make the next generation's life easier, maybe not easier because maybe better support and more support. Yeah. Than the one previous. Yep. Like, you know, people shouldn't have to suffer because we suffer.

Like our kids shouldn't have to suffer because we suffered or our same thing. Like the, I hate the millennial conversation or like the the conversation around entitlement and things like that. We should want the future to be better for everyone that comes after us. And this is, this is change is like leveling up over and over and over and over again. As a society, we should want it for the people that follow, but to do that, we need to kind of almost focusing on what we can do and what we can actually, how we can change our lives for the better to then trickle down for the people that come next.

Yeah. I think the response to that argument is that the generations before need to pass on the responsibility to younger generations and like teach them to continue making the world better for their kids and their kids. Like the buck doesn't stop with that generation. It just keeps rolling forward and like the momentum is building. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. Do you think, what do you think, come back to like the change conversation? What do you think the, are there strategies that you think we can use to foster and facilitate positive change? Let's say that the bottom levels, the pyramid are all being met.

Like we're safe. We feel a sense of belonging, but then we are looking kind of toward the edges of how we can improve. Who I ever just formulate an answer for a second. Yeah. I think the way I kind of look at it is if all of those things are being met, then it's around, okay, well, what do you want? How are you going to get here? What are the things you're going to do to, to cultivate your potential effectively? Like that's, that's changes is moving from where you are now to where you want to

be, but almost like to the best possible version of yourself, which it's almost like that sentence is like a bit cringy, the best, be the best possible version of yourself. But it's, what's wrong with it? Like we all want to be the best possible version of ourselves. Like why, why do we choose to accept anything less? So there's like three, three steps to that. There's first of all, there's the self-awareness around what you actually want and identifying, learning about yourself and what makes you tick. And, you know, we've, we've all got different ways of doing that.

Like, like my personal methods for doing that are daily journaling, daily meditation, you know, to, to find ways to get an insight into whatever the fuck goes on up here. Because some of us still don't know. And that's two swears. I apologize. See how podcast, you can say whatever the fuck we want. True. You're not wrong. I apologize if, if you're a, sorry mum. So there's the self-awareness conversation. Then there's like the, the plan or the day-to-day, what you need to do to get to where you want to get to. Like if you know what you want, great.

That's part of it. You know, the, the adaptive change then is to do the things that you need to do to get there. And it's almost like, that's a reiteration. It's a, you know, reassess, reiterate, reflect, and, you know, re redirect or recenter so that you continually leveling up and moving forward. I can't remember what the third thing I was going to say is. Yeah. Then there's the, the people in place conversation that comes into that. We spoke about it massively last week in the community and accountability one, but I have no interest in doing good things by myself.

Like there's nothing I want to do less. Most of my goals, which is, you know, we're talking about goals today and I'm like, I don't really have any personal goals. Like I do, but most of them are centered around other people and doing things as a unit or as a collective rather than doing things for myself. And that's, that's not, you know, that's not completely altruistic. I like get a good deep seated joy out of doing good things with other people. So, you know, there's a big selfish element to that too. So I don't think

for a second that I am completely sacrificing myself because I'm not, it's, it's all of us together, but the people in place thing is like, once you know what you want and it's, these are fluid conversations, they're not, you figure out what you want, then you start doing it. Like you're always constantly reiterating and reflecting, but the, you know, it comes back to the thing that I say, try and say a lot. It's like, how good are good people doing good things together? All I want to do is do good things with good people. You

know, whether it's us growing the community at the gym, whether it's a group of friends that gets together every now and again, whether it's connecting on things that we resonate with. All life is, is that constant reiteration of doing good things with good people. So yeah, self-awareness, figure out which way you're going and start doing the things and you'll figure it out as you go. Yeah, like it freaks me out that people don't do things they love to do, like properly freaks me out. Yeah. Well, that's saying that from, I think most of those first four boxes of the pyramid are met for me.

Yeah. I mean, people sacrificing their best self, let's say, for, in exchange for like safety or security is a flawed argument, potentially. Maybe, like maybe not at all. You can be, you understand it, like people, like there's people are, it's almost the conversation around like the, it must be nice to have these things afforded to you already, or like you're lucky, you're so lucky. And there's a, there's a completely acceptable, like relevant argument to that, but I'd almost challenge everyone on that, that feels that way about different things and say, "Yeah, but what's in your control?

Your control isn't where your start, starting point is." And we can talk about like, you know, birth lotteries and where we end up, where we grow up and what family we're born into. And like the fact of the matter is most people that are rich are born into rich families. Most people that are poor are born into poor families. Like, yeah, there's, there's a little bit of movement, but ultimately there isn't much. So the question then is, what are you going to do about it? And this is where the, for me, the self-actualization comes into it is it doesn't matter where your starting point is.

It matters that you start and it matters that you go, okay, what is it that I really love to do? Or what is it that, that I am, you know, it's the ikigai conversation. It's like, what does the world need? What am I good at? What do I love to do? What can make me money and help, you know, support the, those needs that are part of the bottom of the pyramid. What's the thing, which is the awareness piece. And then how do I keep doing that? That's the, for me, that's the conversation. I don't want to argue over like the nuance of, you know, different things that don't really matter.

Like we talk about it a fair bit in terms of like, people argue whether they're a front squat or a back squat's better for, you know, this sort of athletic development. Who gives a fuck? Like, it doesn't matter. What matters is that we're learning and we're trying and we're really doing the things that set our soul on fire. Like just for a moment, like let's imagine if all of the energy people utilise to argue about the different pieces of dogma in their industry and like for, we're in the fitness industry. So, and I was having

this conversation with another coach, coach Benny yesterday, and we were just saying like, how good would it be if everyone stopped arguing over the stupid shit and actually helped the people that they are arguing for? Like it's almost that vicious cycle. Whereas if we can get out of that vicious cycle and go, okay, well, the awareness piece, what can we do? How can we help? How can we move it forward? That's for me is change. That is going, okay, what change am I trying to make? What needs to be done? Let's get to work. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really interesting. And whether you're looking for a big systemic change, like, you know, certain, like all of us want to see in say politics or, or, or the world of the moment, we want to see big systemic change, but that starts by trickling down into, you know, local change and then family change and individual change. Like you want to change the world, right? Make your bed. And then let's, let's take a step forward from there. Yeah, yeah. It starts with the, yeah, it starts with you for sure. There's another model for change called ad car.

And I think I might've talked about this one of my workshops as well, or my coaching, but if you haven't seen Simon's pair of change workshop, it will be up on our, there's a lecture that he did, which was exceptional. That will be up for consumption. It'll be up for consumption very soon. So get around it. If you want to reach out to Simon and they'll give you a little nudge to actually upload. Yeah. Yeah. It's brilliant. It's, it's very, very good. He won't say it, but it is. Yeah. I'm pandering a little bit. All right.

Ag car go. So there's a model called awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, reinforcement, and it kind of reflects what, like your little, your framework, like you need to have the awareness for the need to change. Like you, you have to have a, I mean, you have to have a desire to participate and support that change and to drive it. And then you need to know how to, how to change, like know how to create the shift in the system and then the ability to do it like the action plan. And lastly, reinforcement, which is to sustain it over time.

I think a lot of the traffic people, a lot of traps that people fall into is that they start doing the different behavior, the positive thing, but then they don't have the ability to sustain it over a period of time. They lose momentum or it starts to get hard. And that's where the people in place come in. I think that's where like surrounding yourself with a community of people who will keep you accountable and pick you up when you fall down. That is crucial to keeping that change rolling on. Yeah. We spoke, I think we

spoke about it last week, but if you want to, if you have a desire behavior, find a place where that desire behavior is a normal behavior. Yeah. Change is hard. Like force, force change is hard. Force change is maybe the wrong word. Nah, let's go with force change. I am here. I want to get there. That's force change. You have to actively do something that is hard. That is difficult. Like we are creatures of habit. We, we like our routine. We like our cycles. We like doing the same shit every day. Most of us. This is Simon who ate the same breakfast every day at school for six years.

And this is the thing, like change is inherently hard. So we need something to kind of mobilize us and sometimes that can be motivation, but then the thing that's going to keep us going, the thing that's going to sustain that change is people who want to see you succeed and that want to succeed themselves. Like no one's a, like I've said in the past that no one's a morning person until they start getting up early in the morning. Like no one's a, no one drinks a lot of water until they decide to start drinking a lot of water.

Like no one's a runner until they decide to start running. Yes. Some people are more naturally built for certain things, but if you want to do something, do it. But if you want to be consistent and want to be committed, then find a group of people that are also wanting to be consistent, be committed and be consistent, be committed together. Yeah. So important. Yeah. And I think that like one of the first things we learn in terms of change is one of the first things we learned in PT school or like in terms of like motivational psychology, behavior change is the trans theoretical model, which is just the stages of change.

And it's, it's going, this is going like for us that this is like bare bones, simple stuff, but it can be forgotten sometimes. And you know, the stages are, there's five stages. There's your pre-contemplation, which is like, I have no interest in changing, which unfortunately is a big chunk of the population in different ways, in different areas. It's a contemplation stage where it's like, Oh, maybe I want to change, but I'm not actually ready to do anything. Then there's like the preparation stage, which is like, you know, it's like contemplation might be, I'm thinking about joining a gym.

The preparation might be, I'm going to call Burtis and go, Hey, doing your research. Yeah, exactly. And then it's the action. It's like the actual going and showing up to the gym. This is, this is the hard part. Like the, you know, it's all hard, but the moving from preparation to action is like the hearts. It's like taking the leap. It's taking the plunge and going, okay, well I'm ready to do the thing. And then it's maintenance. They're doing it over and over and over again. And there's almost like, like you can relapse at the maintenance phase or you can relapse at the action phase.

Like how many of us have started a thing, done two weeks of it and then fallen off the wagon. And the reason might be a bunch of different reasons. It might be not as important to us as we think it might not be the right goal. It might not be, we might not have the support networks around this. We might not have the right reason for doing it, whatever it is. But at the end of the day, the maintenance phase is around going, how can I create a habit of the thing that I want to do?

You know, like we both do certain things each day that almost that we talk about in the system of success, but they're almost like frameworks to allowing us the capacity to move forward and to grow and to evolve. I know that if I do, like I've got three boxes a minute each day, that's a win for me if I tick those. But funnily enough, when I do those things, I create momentum to want to do more things. Like I'll wake up in the morning, I'll be like literally tired and I'll be like, I just want to press snooze 18 times like you did this morning.

And I did it 16 times. So this is all good. I was present. That was so funny. Just for a little sidebar, Coop and I go for a walk. At the moment, we're going for a walk twice a week and Thursday morning. I woke up this morning. He's like, oh, it's a bit wet. He's like, I pressed snooze a couple of times. I'll be a bit late. I'm like, no worries. And like, sometimes I do it. Sometimes he does it. But for the first evidence of the chat, he's like, give me donuts. He just didn't want to borrow it.

He's like, I don't want to be here. I'm tired. But once we got moving and we got going, like the steps is one of my boxes to tick. Tick that off. And like that second half of our conversation, we're like throwing ideas for work stuff. Like we're talking about high level stuff. That wouldn't have happened if we didn't have the commitment to doing the thing. And the mornings were like, if I had said, yeah, let's stay in bed this morning and succumb to the rain, succumb to the precipitation that's currently dribbling outside, then we wouldn't have got that thing done.

So we've almost like, there's our accountability. There's our people in place. Like we've got our route that we're walking in the moment. Sometimes we change one street, but it's not really changing much. But you know, we've got a like a reward halfway through where we get to hang out and chat with Charlotte and we get to have a coffee and I have me my apple and black orange juice, which I very much look forward to twice a week now. It's the little wins, right? But it's actually having like little incentives along the way or little like celebrating the little wins and doing the things that make you smile.

Even though you're in the process, even though you're like your head down, getting stuck into the thing, celebrating those little things along the way, just help. Yeah. But like this podcast each week has almost been a celebration point. It's like a, it's a chance for us to talk about a specific topic. There's chance to reflect with where we're at, what we're doing, how we're feeling. And it's a part of the week that like I love now because one, I like the sound of my own voice, which who doesn't. I like talking. I like the fact that some people, other people like us talking.

So, you know, thanks for the validation everyone. I appreciate it. But more than anything, like podcasts, and this is what I've spoken about with the podcast in the past is, you know, did a hundred or so episodes of season one, as we called it. But I got past the I'm doing this podcast for us to grow the awareness around Virtus and to grow the brand and to do all those kinds of things. Salvishly, I just did the podcast because it gave me one or two hours where I would just sit in front of someone and

ideally not across the computer, but everyone, I think everyone before this was done face to face, but sit across from someone and have a genuine conversation without like this thing bugging me or for those listening at home, I picked up my phone and shook it. And without the interruptions of daily life, you actually have a conversation, you dive into things that you wouldn't normally have talked about. Like, you know, we need to find these things in our lives that allow us to appreciate one, how far we've come, but also what, like the direction we want to head and where we want, where we want to get to.

So don't know how we got there. I've talked about the trans-theoretical model, but change is good. Do it. Yeah. Even when it's raining outside. Even, especially when it's raining outside. Well, this is, this is it. Like we don't have to like the weather, but like, whether it's raining or whether it's really hot or whether it's, whether it's snowing or, or windy, like just appreciate what it, what is. And I think a big part of being okay with change is being okay with whatever the f**k life was like. It's having like, I hate using, I don't

hate using the word resilience, but it's just, I feel like it's like flavor of the month at the moment, but is it being resilient, like being able to bounce back from change or adversity, but also being able to sustain momentum through adversity and just accepting that life is going to be tough sometimes and that we're going to have, we're going to be challenged with things, but knowing that, or trying to accept that the hard times is when we learn, we have immense amounts of growth and we'll get through the other end of it in a better position than we were when we started.

Well, it's very good. It's a really, really good quote, but I can't remember what it is. It's something around like, I, I'm going to butcher it, but it's something around like the, upon reflection, we realized that the times that were the hardest were almost the most, we appreciate them the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that like Shawshank Redemption or something? I don't know. I am upset that I don't have the quote on me. Sorry, interrupted. But it might be Shawshank. I don't think it's Shawshank. Anyway, the, we know, we know inherently know that we can

all look back and I'm not, you know, blowing smoke up your ass when I say this, but look back at the hardest times in your life and think of like how good they were for your personal development, your growth. Like the times where I don't know what I'm doing, which for me is like every, like once a week at a minimum, those times I look back and go, like, these are the ones when I really didn't know what I wanted or when, you know, when life threw up massive challenges and this, this six month block will be, will be one of the bigger ones.

Yep. But I look back and go, I'm so grateful for those times. We just, we almost need to like give ourselves a nudge to appreciate that when we're in it. Yeah. Like, like let's remove the upon reflection part of that and go, how can I accept and appreciate this, this chapter of my life or this season as one of, it might be full of immense suffering, but it's also going to be full of immense growth, immense growth as well. Yeah. It's hard to take a step back and take a breath when you're in the middle of it.

But practices like journaling and gratitude, things that build our awareness around what we're doing and the times that we're in, the seasons that we're in help to just build perspective, which, which then highlight the, I mean, it highlights the times when we, we think we're being stressed to our absolute limit, but we are actually, we actually have the capacity to deal with it. Like oftentimes we have, we always do. We maybe just haven't been exposed to it this way before. So it requires a little bit of adaptation to adjust, but I truly believe that everyone

has the ability to pursue their best self and to pursue the things that they're passionate about and to get through hard times and learn from them. Found it. I found the quote. It was Freud, funnily enough. Let's not dive into his other works. One day in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as the most beautiful. That's awesome. That is the ultimate quote because it's like, no matter what you're going through, you'll get through it and you'll be able to look back at it and appreciate it. Like, you know, some of us are more fortunate than others and our, and our worst times aren't as bad as they maybe could be, but it's all relative.

It's, it's all real. Like, you know, it's all dependent on who we are and what we've been through. And I think if we can use the tough times and the hard things as just opportunities to learn and grow and become more resilient and become anti-fragile, we can use that, those times when we fall over as opportunities to go, okay, well, how do I fall over better next time? And how do I make sure that, you know, when I fall over and hit the ground real hard, how do I know that I'm going to get up? And we know we're going to get up because, you know, what other options do we have?

We don't have any other options, but if we surround ourselves with support networks and self-awareness and the coping mechanisms, I don't like the word coping mechanism. The, what's the word for coping that isn't just staying? Strategies? I don't know. Okay, let's go with coping mechanisms. The coping mechanisms to, to stand up and stand up stronger and stand up better, then it's just that consistent undulation of good things. Like, and there's going to be times where you're feeling flat and I need to give you a little nudge and help you up. And there's going to be

times when I'm feeling flat, but this is the best part about having, doing good things with good people in the places that we love to be, because it's like, we spoke about with community last week, we spoke, we've spoken about it pretty much every week in some way, shape or form, but it's just around the find what you love to do, find people that want to support you and do it and move forward. It's all the same conversation really, isn't it? It is. And you know, we, we were aware of that when we, when we

decided what the 10, 10 weeks are and we're like, each one kind of flows into the next and then we back and forth and stuff. So, you know, if, if this is the first podcast you listen to for a while, you know, go back and listen to week one, two weeks or episode one to episode seven of this, because it's, it's all the same stuff and we think it's an important conversation. We think it's the conversation that we need to have, especially when things are hard at the moment, because it's easy to, to kind of cruise when things are easy or things aren't tough.

But know that, you know, the nature of change, the nature of impermanence is that tough times are coming and the good times are coming. So, you know, cheers to being able to go to the pub and have a poured tap beer, a beautiful frothy goodness that we'll be, we'll be able to do soon. That'll be the day. Well, this is just a little win, just a little celebration. Like, yeah, first Bougie Boy Friday is going to be where we sit around and have a glass of wine or have a, have a frothy and go, you know, we haven't had this for the last six months.

Bring back the Bougie Boys, I say. Any more for anymore, Simon? Let's, let's do it. That was awesome. Next week, we are chatting about communication. This would be a good one. And then we have one more after that. And that's a wrap for season two. Oh, it's been three the week after because it's been fun. Yeah, probably. Don't forget, like, subscribe, give us a review and feedback because we love it. We want to spread the message. Validate my, mostly just validate me. Every time you sit and write a review, I get like this beautiful burst of dopamine and it just feels good.

I agree. Like every time, every time someone reviews a podcast, I buy one less book and I buy one less thing on, on internet shopping. So, you know, please, it will save you money. His bookcase is already full, so he doesn't need that. So good fun. Thank you. There is one more thing. It's been emotional.