S2E06 · Building Resilience

the perspective goes, I know I'm hurting at the moment. Like this is tough. Everyone's hurting in their own way. The empathy plays is to go, well, it doesn't matter how much I'm hurting. If there's ways I can help other people and I can empathize with them and show them that I care and show them I'm compassionate, then that creates space for me to accept the reality that is. - And in this moment, I swear we are infinite. - Let's do this, come on. - Mounting. (upbeat music) - It's too damn hot for a penguin to be just walking around.

- Three, two, one, eagle. - Are these two doctors? - I'm afraid so. (upbeat music) - And here we go. - And here we go. And we're back for season two of the Virtus podcast. Mr. Simon Cooper, welcome. - Hello, it's great to be here. - Well, great to be there. Oh, it's great to be here. - We are in separate locations, running off video. - Which may take a little bit of getting used to, but you know, we'll do our best. - We will, we'll manage. - So welcome to everyone. Welcome back to the Virtus performance podcast.

It's been a little while since we've done a proper episode, I guess. Tell us about the new format, Simon. Tell us why everyone should be mucho excitedo. - Oh, mucho. Yeah, very exciting. We have decided that we're going to elevate the quality of these episodes a little bit. Every week we are progressively making improvements. - Production quality is going that way, it's going up. - Yeah, so we're recording on video. - It'd be really high now, but the world's postal systems are not quite what they used to be. So we're waiting on a few pieces of tech to help us elevate our game.

But we figured, why not? There's no time like the present. Let's just get stuck into episode one now, hey? - Yeah, episode one. So we released the trailer. Check that out if you haven't already. That frames a little bit about what we're doing. But essentially every week we'll be riffing on a different topic. We'll be diving a little bit more in depth into these sort of areas that will help you to take away some practical strategies to live a more happy, meaningful life. - Oh, good. So we've done our research is what we're saying. So it's full to the brim of pseudo science and opinion, which we love, which we absolutely love.

Now, the idea is to have a 25, 30 minute chat about an area of our lives, a specific topic, and then give you guys some quality conversation around that and then hopefully you'll leave with a couple of strategies and takeaways and things that you can implement into your day-to-day existence to help you live better and to do more and to be more. So week one today, what's the topic, Mr. Simon? - We are talking-- - Well, everyone already knows the topic 'cause it's probably on the heading. - That's true. - It'll be on the title. So if they-- - I don't know.

But yeah, let's introduce this properly. Today we'll be talking about how to build resilience. And for context, we are recording this on the 2nd of August in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis. And a lot of people are doing it tough. We are all struggling or experiencing different things, I guess, throughout this time. And one of the things that I think will benefit us immensely is how do, or is us building our resilience and becoming a little bit more resilient to adversity and to hard things that happen to us. So we'll be riffing a little

bit on this about strategies on how to build your resilience and things that you can start thinking about in order to be more open to change. - Yeah, spot on. And you're a man that knows a lot about change. Having run your Power of Change seminar, which was excellent, by the way. - There'll be another one in a couple of weeks. - Yes. So when, I guess the first thing is what is resilience? And the actual, the definition is just the capacity to recover quickly from difficulties, toughness. And I think the secondary part to that

definition that I've taken the liberty to add, I've called my mates at Oxford and see if they could chuck it in their dictionary, but it's the ability to lean into perspective and gratitude and to be able to find the good within the challenge. Most of those that have listened before would know that I'm a fan of say stoicism, for example. And it's just a way of thinking where you kind of look at the problems and the issues that you faced as the way forward and as a way to heighten your ability to do things and to build your capacity.

I found another definition. So here's my research that I've been doing. It's from the positive psychology field. And they define resilience as the process of adapting well in the face of adversity, trauma, tragedy and significant sources of stress. So I guess the way we look at stress and adaptation in the gym, it's fairly simple and straightforward. You give your, you find out where your body's at, you give it the optimum amount of stress so it adapts and you let it rest and recover and you go again. And I think resilience building is the same thing. It's just day-to-day existence rather than the specific framework of a gym environment.

- Yeah, for sure. We're always, a gym is an environment where we are intentionally exposing ourselves to stress. So when we sort of frame it like that, we are approaching it with intent to overcome that thing. That tough session or tough lift or whatever it is. Where day-to-day, we don't know when these bouts of adversity are going to come. So our ability to cultivate this level of strength or ability to bounce back from these challenging situations is something that can be transferred to any sort of situation. - Definitely. And it's like one of the things

that like, I guess for those listening or watching at home, like we kind of went, all right, well, let's talk about our own experiences, our own beliefs around each of these topics. What are your experiences with building resilience? And I guess we're fortunate it's the right word, but we like researching this stuff and looking into what we can do to be higher functioning individuals. What are the things that you do? Or what was the first things that came into your head when you thought, all right, resilience, what am I gonna talk about? - I mean, it's particularly relevant now because we are experiencing these challenging times.

And the thing that sort of automatically sprang to mind was how resilient, we were sort of able to tap into that resilience when the gym closed. We were given 24 hours notice, we had to adapt quickly. And I think like that adaptation part is really key in how to become resilient. We need to, I mean, we were challenged, I guess, to pivot what we were doing really quickly and to support those around us throughout that process. So for me- - Just a side note on the pivot bit. Have you been able to hear the word pivot and not think of Ross trying to carry his- - Pivot.

- Pivot, carry his couch up the stairs. Anyway, sorry to interrupt. It's an unprecedented use of the word pivot lately, which is great. We love it. - True, Friends is making a comeback, I think, because of it. - Which we love. - Yes, we were forced to overcome this adversity. And I think the way that we did that is being so connected to one another as a team, the Virtus team, as well as in the community. We were able to support one another. We were able to give each other what we need, I guess. - Probably share it alone.

- Yeah, well, that's it. We're all experiencing this thing differently. We all have our worldview that we are perceiving things through. So when we were exposed to this kind of adversity, we were challenged to support each other through it. And I think having that connection part and then having the maybe mindfulness part to it as well, being able to kind of sit back, take a breath, look at things maybe a little bit more objectively and then start to take action. That's sort of what I first sort of thought about when we kind of framed this conversation.

- Yeah, the way I kind of look at it is it's a react. It's a reaction is kind of like, if you're not overly resilient, you don't have the tools to be able to lean on when things get tough. You react to the situation rather than respond. And I think the only difference between those two things is one, it's like that instinctive fight or flight, like fear response is reacting. Whereas the response is you give yourself space and time to think and cultivate the, okay, what's the best step forward? Or what's the best thing to do?

It's not driven by fear. It's driven by necessity and awareness. And that word awareness is probably the one I came up, came to the most around resilience. It's okay, what's going on right now objectively? What can we do about it objectively? And then subjectively, how am I feeling about those things? And then the last, almost like a four step process, the four step is just, okay, what am I gonna do about it? And then to use the vertice example, the gym closed, yep, sucked, not ideal. We'd love to be face to face with all our humans, high fiving and hugging and breathing on each other, but we can't do that at the minute.

So we chucked the couch on our shoulders and walk up the stairs and pivot and just find a different way to do what we do, which is bring high quality coaching and connection to the community. And it hasn't been ideal. It hasn't been easy in any stretch of the imagination, but I think we're in a better space now as a community and as individuals and as a team than we were six months ago. - For sure, for sure. We, I think as individuals, we can build resilience, but then also there's like a collective resilience as well.

Like whether that's like a business system or it's a community, we can kind of create these behaviors or we can foster these behaviors to elevate that resilience. So yeah, like we're running the COVID games at the moment. I'm sure there's four teams of 20, 25 people that are all kind of leaning on each other for that collective resilience. Like there's some days where, like we've had a couple of people that have been, I guess you'd call them like top performers. They've been culminating in the most points. And a couple of those guys have had rough weeks this week, but everyone's leaning on each other to support.

And the points are a by-product of that, but it's the, okay, well, what do you need? How can I help? I don't need anything, but thanks for asking. Like it just makes people feel better. So that collective empathy, compassion, it brings out an ability for people to be more resilient because they know that people have got their back. It's like anyone that's played team sport when you're not having the best day and someone picks you up when you've missed a tackle or whatever it is, whatever sport, you know that, okay, we're gonna be okay because the boys or girls have got my back.

And that's where community and connection is so important in the resilience conversation. - Where do you think that, you mentioned empathy, how does that sort of fit into this conversation about resilience? - So I wrote like what I thought my three pillars of resilience were. And one was awareness, which we talked about a little bit, we can talk about a little bit more. Like it's self-awareness, understanding of you and what you need and what you want and where you're at. But it's also that collective awareness of like your place in the universe or your place in existence.

And like in the scheme of things, and I mean this in the best way possible, like life is meaningless. We are in this tiny little corner of the universe running our existence, like we're not the center of it, we're just a part of it. But that for me brings meaning and brings awareness and all the bad things that are happening, all the frustrating things. If we understand that from the view of, of we're just a grain of sand in an infinite universe, then we can create our own meaning and go, okay, this is just another challenge for us to overcome.

The second part of, or the second pillar was gratitude, which is just around being grateful for, grateful that we do have that corner of the universe to express ourselves in, grateful for the people that we have around us for what we're able to do, what we're able to experience, who we are and what we're lucky enough to have. And the second part of the gratitude is just perspective. And I think perspective and gratitude put together allow us to be empathetic to everyone around us. Because if we go, okay, well, like me personally, like the gym's closed, you know, I haven't been able to earn an income for months, like all these kinds of things.

And then you look out and you go, okay, well, people are passing away from this. Like people have lost much more than I have. The perspective goes, I know I'm hurting at the moment, like this is tough, everyone's hurting in their own way. The empathy plays is to go, well, it doesn't matter how much I'm hurting, if there's ways I can help other people and I can empathise with them and show them that I care and show them I'm compassionate, then that creates space for me to accept the reality that is. - Yeah, we've used the phrase, like the best way to generate momentum for yourself is to give it to others.

- Yeah, exactly, exactly. And like I was meditating this morning for the 20th day in a row, get around me, this is almost my longest meditation stream. Wouldn't happen if it wasn't for COVID. So it's not all bad. But the, oh, I'm gonna butcher it now. There was a quote at the end, it was basically around like compassion doesn't, compassion feels like it, so when you give compassion, it feels like it takes energy away from you, but ultimately it gives, it fills your cut back up because you're helping other people and that makes us feel good.

It helps promote that momentum. And that's the empathy you play with resilience. It's the more you can feel and contribute to how other people are feeling in a positive way, the more resilient you're gonna be because you know that even when things are bad, other people have, I don't like looking at it this way, other people have got it worse because it's all subjective. I think it's all subjective, like suffering. I think everyone suffers and it helps to know that so that when you are having a tough time, it's not a, oh, I shouldn't suffer because someone else has got it worse.

It's I can feel in this collective suffering and know that we're all gonna be able to get through this together. - Yep. - And just to finish off what I was talking about, the third pillar that I've got is purpose. It's if you have a reason to get up in the morning and keep going, then all of the bad things that happen shouldn't necessarily matter. They're just bumps in the road. The obstacle is the way. What is the way becomes the way. Like if there's something in the way of us creating a community of legends at Virtus, then we'll work through that because that's gonna help us get to where we wanna get to.

So that purpose, the underlying purpose that's there can undoubtedly help us work through whatever we've got to work through. - Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, those three pillars are pretty similar to, I guess, how I would think about it. And like we're both familiar with the Resilience Project run by Hugh van Kuehlenberg. - Yeah, that's a Hugh if you're listening. - And his three pillars were empathy, mindfulness and gratitude. - Great. - So I think like frame it however you want, call these sort of different mental resources what you'd like, but those are kind of the

three main themes, the awareness piece and perspective, being connected to something that is gonna motivate or drive you forward, even when you do encounter these bouts of adversity, you have to sort of move through that. And then maybe the gratitude as well, being grateful for what you do have, being sort of disconnected from or intentionally disconnecting yourself from what you don't have or from the external environment, the things that you can't control and bringing more awareness to the things that you can control what you do have, which sort of feeds back into perspective. - Yeah, a hundred percent.

And it's just like the simplest analogy ever, but it's just everything, all of these things that we learn, all of these tools, they're just tools in a toolbox. If we don't have the ability to lean on these things and to open the toolbox and know, okay, well, I've got all of these different things I can do or ways I can look at things to improve how I overcome these challenges. If we've got multiple tools, then we're going to be able to figure out what the best one to use to move forward is. But if we don't cultivate this thing, if we don't lean into thinking about, okay, how can I be more aware of what's going on?

How can I be more observant with what's happening in the world? How can I be less reactive? How can I be more grateful? How can I understand perspective more? How can I figure out my purpose? If we're not leaning into these things, then our only tool that's in our toolbox is that reactiveness and that panic or fear-driven response, which like no one wins, no one wins from that. And as much as we want to talk about current situation, like I almost want to like lean out of it, but if we just focus on what's right

in front of our face, the numbers that are popping up each day, then we miss the forest for the trees and we forget that this is just such a tiny part of our life. Like even if safe, like worst case scenario, it goes on for the next three years. And most of us hopefully live to 75, 100. Actually, by the time I'm 75, advanced medical science will probably be at a point where I can live to at least three, 400. So anyway, potentially, hopefully. - Elon Musk needs to get on the job, maybe. - He's doing other things.

But if we understand that this is just such a small part of our life and everything that we're going through now will give us more capacity to do things down the track. All we've got to do is deal with it the best we can, overcome the challenges as they're presented to us and learn from it. You know, I love the book "Antifragile" by Nicholas Nassim Taleb. And like basically he talks about fragility versus robustness versus antifragility. And I think if we can all be antifragile, then our resilience is beefed up massively. Like just for those playing at home, if this cup is fragile and I drop it, it'll break, okay?

If this cup is robust, if I drop it, it won't break, it'll stay exactly the same. If this cup is antifragile, then I'll drop it and it'll respond to that and get stronger. Obviously an inanimate object like a cup does not have the ability to get stronger. So this is, depending on how high I drop it from, it's probably fragile or robust. But we need to look at ourselves as antifragile or we need to approach situations as though we're antifragile. Like yes, not being able to go to work for the last couple of months is horrendous.

Like yes, not being able to earn an income is tough. Like yes, potentially not being able to exercise further than five Ks from our home is really difficult. But okay, what's that gonna teach me about, you know, exploring the five kilometer radius from my house? What's that gonna teach me about accepting the reality that is the things that I can't control and then moving on to focus on the things I can? Like all of these things are just tools in our toolbox. And if we learn to be antifragile, the resilience is gonna come with it.

- Yeah, I think you should have referred to it, but if we willingly expose ourselves to these challenges or willingly sort of address them and don't just kind of like brush them to the side, then we have the opportunity to build our resilience. If we sort of ignore what we're going through or if we undermine it, then we're gonna come out the other side without having the opportunity to build these skills. And they are just a collection of mental resources that we can grow. Like we can, we've got these tools. And these resources that we can tap into, we have the opportunity to continue to build our, or expand our toolbox.

- Definitely, definitely. And I think that like, we have lived, we live in a time of like unprecedented is the word. I'll try not to use that again. Like unprecedented, like what's the word I'm looking for? Like happiness and consistency and things like that. And like, although bad things happen, we understand that. Like we live in the best point of human existence in terms of mortality rates and, and, you know, technological advancement and all these kinds of things. We almost, we almost became too, too relaxed or too comfortable with how the world was. And like,

this has hit everything for six, but you know, at the end of the day, there's no massive world wars going on, especially not in this part of the world. Like yes, people are dying, which is horrendous, but in terms of some of the other pandemics that have been thrown at us in human history, it's a, it's a small, on a small scale. The most it's done is it's thrown up our way of living and it's influenced our way of living. So, you know, if we, like it's been a saying that we've, we've used a vertice over the last couple of years, but do hard things.

Well, now the hard things are being thrust in front of our face and we've either got to overcome them or not. - We don't really have a choice. - No, we don't have a choice. Like we have a choice. We can decide to, to ostrich it and head in the sand, or we can decide to, to sit and do nothing. Like these are our three choices. Head in the sand, pretend it's not happening. Two, accept that it's happening and sit and do nothing. Or three, use this as just another challenge that allows us to grow our capacity and build our capacity.

You know, the like, you know, I've like, I've got this stoic coin that I carry around with me. It's got a bunch of different things on it, but on like a couple of the, couple of the thought processes of stoicism are just around like one's amor fati, which is just love of fate, which is whatever happens. Like this is brilliant because this is all where we're basically given, like we've got to live in accordance with the way the world wants us to live or the way the universe wants us to live or the way the lizard people want us to live, like whatever it is.

And I told you I'd talk about lizard people. - Yes, you did. - Like whatever happens, happens. Like there's nothing we can do about it. So all we can do is affect our response to those situations. The whinging and complaining and frustrations, like everyone's got them, but there's, you know, you can either just decide to accept and move forward or you can decide to sit and dwell. And it's a, it's a no brainer choice for me. And the other thing is just premeditatio malorum, which is premeditation of evils. It's, we know, we know bad things are going to happen.

Like again, we live in a time of unprecedented prosperity and we don't have as many bad things happen to us that say a 1600s version of Mr. Simon Cooper and Mr. Lachlan Wallace would have had, but we know bad things are going to happen. And if we can kind of paint the picture of, okay, well, what's the worst case scenario? Like we had a conversation the other day of, okay, what's worst case scenario, just as a thought experiment, what if the gym's closed for the rest of the year? What do we do? And it's not

a nice thing to think about, but I feel like after a 20 minute conversation, we are so much more prepared for that as a possibility, if it were to happen. And it's just an ability to go, okay, well, bad things are going to happen. Let's figure out how we're going to deal with it and move forward. I think that's what resilience is. It's accepting that things aren't going to be easy peasy and we don't want them to be easy peasy. Like we, you know, like as a new parent, like, you know, look like I guess I've taken another look at parenting and I'll look a different look at parenting over the last six months or so.

The last thing I want is for Lucy to grow up without any university. Like I want to be there to make sure that, you know, when she's chucked in the deep end, she doesn't drown. But at the same time, I want her to be able to overcome those challenges as they come to it. - And you want that for her because later in life, she's not going to be able to escape those challenges. There's going to be other hard things that she encounters and you want her to be able to bounce back from those things. - Exactly, exactly.

I want her to have the capacity to be able to accept and deal with the challenges that are thrown at it. Like bad things are going to happen. Bad things, you know, when accepted and overcome cease to be bad things and they're just things that happen. Like everything is a thing that happens. It's just, we have our own perspective that determines whether it's good or bad. - Yeah, we can look at these things as opportunities to increase our capacity and get better. Or we can look at them as things that are going to knock us down to our knees and they're hopeless.

- Yes, yes. And if we look at, okay, well, what, which of those two responses is future wallets going to benefit from more? I can take myself out of the, this sucks. I feel bad, I'm like, I'm upset, I'm angry, I'm frustrated. And I can take myself out of that position or feeling and go, okay, well, what do I need to do to help myself move forward? And it's not to say that I don't, like we're not having this conversation with the finish line, we still get frustrated and angry and upset and genuinely just sad that we're not allowed to do work from the gym at the moment, but that doesn't help anyone.

It doesn't help the people we serve. It doesn't help our community. It doesn't help our families. All it does is makes us wallow. - Yeah, it's far more useful to be resilient than not. Useful for ourselves and for the people that we serve because, yeah, the alternative is, like you said, wallowing or accepting that, like the fixed mindset thing, accepting that things are the way that they are, or we can have a growth mindset perspective and look at it as, how can I improve this thing? Or how can I grow as a result of this challenging situation?

- Exactly, and at the end, we're all gonna die anyway, so what does it mean? We may as well try and make it fun. - It's gotta be fun. If it's not fun, then there's no point, right? - Exactly, exactly. - What are a few strategies that people can use to build their resilience? - A few strategies, as in actionable things-- - Actionable things that I can go off in my week and when I encounter a challenging situation, I can intentionally tip into this resource. - Yeah, well, let me go off a little list of a couple of things.

So I think any strategy that helps you create space to think and to accept and overcome whatever's thrown at you is where you should be leaning. I'll use my own experience because I've done it and I know it works and it makes me feel good, but journaling is one for me. I've got this sexy journal and about a pile of 10 others next to it. I literally just do a page of writing every day. And most people that have listened to me talk before will know that journaling is something I value highly because it just gives me the space to think and the space to be.

So you can never write fast and you can think is something I've said over and over again. But just that page of journaling takes me out of my head onto the page and allows me to be a little bit more aware. Secondary to journaling can just be meditation or going for a walk. Meditation doesn't have to be sitting there like this chanting. By all means, if you're a chanter, chant. If you're a walker, walk. But finding, just go for a walk without your phone. Give yourself some space to think or find a spot to sit. Give yourself some space to think.

Both of those things just cultivate awareness. - Yeah, they're both mindfulness practices really, right? - Definitely, definitely. Like, what was it? The resilience project that was mindfulness, yeah. So the mindfulness is just journaling, walking, giving yourself space, like a session can be a great thing, a gym session or a run or something like that. Something that gets you out of your head and into your body. Out of your head into a page, into your body, into breath, whatever it is, can be a really powerful tool. Gratitude, write down three things you're grateful for, can be a simple one.

And then from there, connecting with people around you. Like just find people that you love, people that you care about, people that you respect and talk to them, ask them how they're going. Like one of my coping mechanisms, for lack of a better term or like strategies over the last few months has just been walking with people. Just one-on-one, go for a walk, talk for an hour or two. You get out there, you get moving, get out of your head and you just talk to someone. You talk about their problems, you talk about your problems and you problem solve for each other and you connect.

The streets of Mornington have never felt safer at 11 o'clock at night while I ticked the legs over. Ticked the legs over with someone, like with people I care about because it's just, it's a place to experience or understand other people as well. - And that's a practice in empathy is asking questions, asking more questions than giving answers maybe, or just looking through, looking at another world, another person's worldview and perspective and seeing how putting yourself in their shoes, maybe is a bit of a cliche, but walking someone else's shoes and see how they view the world.

And then that gives you some perspective that you can bring back into your, to how you approach your day-to-day. - Yeah, and you can ask questions and you might not necessarily be able to give any answers, but just giving them, that helps create space for you, but it helps create space for someone else as well. Like the, one of my favourite questions is like, what do you need right now? Like, what do you need that you don't have? Which is a really hard one to answer. Like, you know, the easy answer for me at the moment will be a gym that I can work at, or, you know, a big pile of cash.

But at the end of the day, the answer is, well, I've got everything I need. And I think that's the thing with resilience is that everyone has what they need already. They've just got to find ways to tap into it and to allow their mindset or their thinking space to actually think and to actually be. - Yep. Is there anything, any resources or strategies you add to the list? I guess we'll share a couple of resources at the end of this, or maybe in the show notes with maybe some websites and some books and some podcasts.

- Yeah. - But is there anything else you'd add to that? - I think the only other one that you haven't mentioned is coming back to your purpose or your goals, revisiting why you do what you do, whether it's in your career or whether it's in relationships, whether it's just like day-to-day lifestyle stuff, like why are you doing the things that you're doing? Revisit that and having that kind of North star to guide you and the thing to kind of look at when there are bumps in the road. Having that really strong sense of purpose enables you to continue moving forward.

So, yeah. - And it allows you to play the long game. Like it's something we talk about. - Yeah, for sure. And it's easy to forget that we aren't playing the long game. It's easy to kind of get distracted by the things that are in the news headlines or the biggest problem that's in front of you, because that's kind of front of mind. But if we practise some mindfulness, if we practise some perspective, then we can kind of recalibrate and find that North star again, or find that your true purpose or the goal that you're working toward.

- Really hoping you'd say true North, but anyway, carry on. - True North. - Whatever. - It's a plug. And yeah, it just kind of gets you back on track and you kind of remember why you're doing these things. And then that helps you to kind of deal with the things that are in front of you. - Yeah, exactly. Like I think like from a personal day-to-day perspective, like inertia and momentum are two very real things. Like if we can create inertia and like get up out of bed and get moving, and we're gonna be able to get ourself moving in the direction we wanna be moving.

And it doesn't matter the speed, it just matters that you're actually moving. And all these things do that we've spoken about today, adjust, we add momentum to the, to us and allow us to actually move forward in what we're doing. And I think that at the end of the day, that's all we need. If we can add momentum, every day we're adding a little bit of momentum to other ourselves and to other people. We're cultivating that awareness and we're, and we're continuing to align to what we want, our purpose, our goals, our meaning, we're feeling fulfilled and everything will be okay.

And at the end of the day, everything will be okay in the end. Like a little excerpt from one of our favorite poems is just no feeling is final, keep going. And that's it. Yeah. - That sounds like maybe a good spot to finish. - Yeah, bloody earth, no feeling is final. Well, all right, before we do finish though, next week, week two, what are we gonna talk about? - Week two. We are talking about self-leadership. - Yeah, so thank you everyone for listening today or watching, if you got around the video, I'll maybe shave my beard for next week, who knows?

But- - Mo's looking good though. - Do I know? Mixing up a little bit? I don't know, it's not thick enough. I just can't grow it. - Just grow it. - Maybe I'll start combing it just to cultivate an awareness that it needs to be thicker. Anyway, thank you everyone for listening. I hope you got something out of it. Please let us know if you, anything you loved, anything you didn't love, give us some feedback, positive feedback only. We're not about that constructive criticism stuff. That's a bit of a waste of time. Yeah, download, share, subscribe, do all those kinds of things.

Thank you, Simon. Thank you, Zoom. And thank you to our sponsors, Lizzie People for keeping us going. - Be good, thank you. (upbeat music) - There is one more thing. It's been emotional. (upbeat music)