S3E35 · Brad Sykes: Curating Youth Development

- Lotus podcast, we're back. Another episode. Seems to be the general trend lately. I start a lot of the recent ones with I'm very excited for today. And I am very excited for today. And we just have so many good guests, you know, it's hard not to get excited. But today we are very lucky, or tonight, this evening. I'm lucky to have Brad Sykes from Sykes Consulting. - Brad Sykes, sports? - Sports. - Change names. - I saw the billboard go by as you drove up. (laughing) Brad, so I've admired Brad's work from afar for a long time.

We haven't really crossed paths to an extent. Similar connections and networks. But the space that Brad's works in is youth development or development in general. Whether that's sporting or just some other softer skills that kids struggle to curate, I would say. And you've kind of tapped into that area exponentially. And I love it 'cause it's something that, something I'm really passionate about. So it's something, again, I'm really excited about today's chewing the fat, as we call it. - Yeah. - But without further ado, as my normal intro goes, welcome. - Thank you very much, Mitch. I'm bloody pumped, mate.

It's, yeah, the space that you guys have here, your team. It's very admirable and it seems like a very good place for people to belong and get the best out of themselves. And that's what I'm all about. That's what a lot of the people that I work with are all about. So it's a really good fit and I'm pumped to be here. - Very nice. How'd you, how did it start? - I think going back to, I suppose, you're talking about business. - Yeah, let's go business. - Or the mindset. - Yeah, let's go business to start with and then we'll go down a thousand rabbit holes as we do on podcasts.

- Yeah, I love it. Can't wait for that. 2014, so it was that nine years ago, almost to the day, sort of the start of pre-season at Frankston Footy Club, myself and my best mate, Sam Fox, were playing at the footy club under Goosey, Mornington Legends and we were both in jobs. I was working at Dan Murphy's and hating it 'cause my mum's an alcoholic or was an alcoholic and Foxy was doing sales and he didn't like the door-to-door stuff. He's naturally pretty shy. So it wasn't his fit either. So we just thought, what can we do?

And April holidays were coming up and we thought, why don't we run some holiday clinics for kids to get them active and having fun and weren't charging much at all. Yeah, we'll live in with a couple of other housemates from Frankston Footy Club as well. And it wasn't sort of about the money, of course, but it had to be down the track if we wanted to quit our jobs. So yeah, it just started small and then June, July got bigger, September. And then Foxy went on to the St Kilda Footy Club a year or maybe two or three years later.

And then I was really passionate about what we'd built and yeah, it sort of grew from there. Then working kids with autism as well because it wasn't just about kids who naturally love sport, it was about how to curate a good environment for kids who naturally don't gravitate to team sports 'cause maybe inclusion is quite tough. And then yeah, the elite pathways as well. I was very passionate about trying to get the best out of kids and the opportunity. So having some good role models to look up to whether it's SNC stuff or whether it's mindset, which Taylor, my wife, is really, really good with.

So yeah, it was just sort of nine years later. It's happened quickly, but at the same time, it feels like a lifetime. - It's interesting, Virtus started in 2014 too. - Yeah, nice. - Yeah, Lucky started out of his shed back in the day and we moved into here, still the same space, in 2015 from memory, so interesting. Same time, I didn't know that actually. - There must've been some big full moon. - Well, Lucky and Sam and Foxy know each other, I think. I presume from June to footy, I think they're actually the same age.

- Yeah, they would've. - Yeah, they're the same age. They would have grown up playing repping in a league and all that stuff at the same time. So as we said at the start, a lot of our networks cross over. Yeah. - Yeah, sport is amazing. I just did a session, the Savo, with a kid. He goes, "I think my teacher knows you." He goes to Pearsdale, he plays at Pearsdale, and I'm like, "Isn't that interesting?" And I've heard his name as well, but obviously, Bomb Beach and Pearsdale, different divisions, but sport just connects people. - So does the Peninsula.

- Yeah, and the Peninsula, yeah. Yeah, it's big, but at the same time. - Oh yeah, it's so small. - Everyone knows somebody who knows somebody. - What's the main makeup of your business look like? - Gee, I'm still trying to figure that out, to be honest. I think a while ago, when there was opportunities sort of coming and very grateful for good opportunities, like the sort of the four pillars, or I like to call it the box, and I always like going outside the box and I probably spend too much of my time there, but it had to do with healthy mindset.

It had to be something that was good for me, but also the people I work with had to be youth. I typically think there's a lot of area for improvement and growth in people who are sort of under 20. I still love working with adults and still working on myself and I'm 32, but I think that that's the sort of area I wanted to be. Sport, I think it's a good connector and it's a really good segue for life lessons. And the fourth one is inclusion, I believe. Yeah, so I did a big deep dive a couple of years ago and just being very inclusive.

So not if somebody has a physical or mental disability, like for me, finding a way for them to feel welcome and not just going, no, I just wanna be with the elite or the ones who wanna be a 400 metre runner and that sort of stuff. It's about, yeah, open to anyone and everyone can improve always. So yeah, that's sort of like where my work is and then how it looks changes from day to day, which I like variety, I value variety. Certainty's okay, we've got uncertainty in our lives at the moment with what Taylor and I are doing and that's okay, a lot of people will be like-- - It's exciting.

- Yeah, I find it exciting as opposed to the opposite, yeah. - Yeah, what are your main offerings? What's from like a product-wise, what do you do? - Yeah, gwiz, bssports.com.au. (laughing) - You can plug anything and everything, don't worry about that. - So club development, so there's a few clubs that we're doing some coach courses with, so helping coaches best sort of work with kids, which is exciting. We did a, at Frankston High School yesterday, we did a mindset session, which is really cool, what a great school. Did you go to Frankston? - Myles Thumping Ground, yeah, Myles Thumping Ground.

- Yeah, there you go. - Actually just finished up working there. - Oh, nice. - I've been there longer since I've been at Virtus actually, so doing coaching, S&C, athletics. - Good stuff, it's a great school. So yeah, we did a mindset mastery class in like the big auditorium there, it was pretty daunting. - It's pretty impressive now, hey, yeah. - Yeah, I was like, whoa. - I've done a presentation, standing up in front of that going, "Oh, I don't, ah, imposter, I don't blog here." - Well, yeah, that's something that Taylor and I, well, before all the year 10s walked in, we're just like, whoa, imposters.

- Especially when it's empty, you look at it and you go, yeah, it's gonna be filled with people in a minute. (laughing) - It's nuts, isn't it? - So that was cool, like mindset, we love tapping into how, especially kids, like they really want other people's approvals. We all do, but in that formative years of high school, like it's so, where you're outside of the, what you can control is like what other people think of you and that's just a place where it can be really-- - It's very impressionable too. - Yeah. - One way or the other.

- Yeah, exactly, exactly, peer pressure and all that jazz. But so yeah, mindset, working with on-field sort of stuff, club culture is really big. Obviously drugs and alcohol, mental health in general, I've worked a lot in, or also worked with outside the locker room, which is a not-for-profit, did a lot of travelling and-- - I don't know if you noticed, but Waze had some shorts on that had an outside locker on them before. - Oh no, I didn't notice. (laughing) - It was just kind of a little nice connection that I thought, well, you might notice that.

- No, no, I was too busy looking at-- - Kriggles on the TV. - At the environment, yeah. - And bloody India touching us up, but yeah. So bits and pieces, mate. It's honestly too, and that's where we need to get better as a business, is probably just being a bit more focused on three or four things. Honestly, probably offer 15 things, and I like that, and the customer tends to like that. However, it's not very streamlined yet, which is okay. - We went through the same thing, so now we're coming out the other end

of being streamlined, but Lucky is very similar as a business owner, who I feel is very creative, and likes to do a thousand things at once, and then struggles to focus in, but wants to, but yeah, it's kind of the same vibe, so it's interesting to see the comparisons again. Kind of started the same year, is on the same path, doing kind of the same thing in a different way. I don't know, it's really interesting. Where did your passion start? Where did it come from? Passion for everything, by the way, not just business. - Yeah, yeah, and it is bigger than business, but we're lucky to work where we enjoy working, and I suppose that's where it started.

It was the fact that I didn't want to, what do we spend, 40 to 60 hours a week working, and I didn't want, what's that, 168 hours in a week, so 40% of my life being in a place that wasn't where I wanted to be. So I think it just probably started from watching other people in my life, whether it be my family, mainly family, seeing, and sporting clubs once again, you see what the fun mums and dads were doing with their life, and you get to observe, I was very observant as a kid, and

just understanding that there is more to life than go work somewhere and then have a couple of hours free time and then go to sleep. Yeah, it was just probably through learning from other people's successes or failures, essentially. - Did you transition out of something into this? - Yeah, it was probably the outside the locker room piece. Like, I loved working in the mental health space with them, but at the end of the day, it wasn't my main passion, and what they're doing, and Todd, the new CEO, have been doing is awesome, and I knew I always have to leave places that I feel is in a better spot than I left it, but yeah, that was probably the transition.

I was able to juggle my holiday clinics with working in the mental health club, like clubs around Australia before we couldn't travel, and then it was great just to see, obviously, how the Waffle Clubs and the Neafool Clubs were similar but different to the local clubs in country Victoria. I found that so intriguing that the blueprint's the same, the makeup's the same, there's still the diversity of jobs and gender and that sort of stuff, but it was, yeah, there's still some differences as well that make the club the club. So the suburban footballer, I don't

know if you follow him, like he does his reviews on every club, and it's just like, you can feel, oh, that's at Bomb Beach, or that's at Frankston, or wherever we're from, so, but yeah, that was the transition, I suppose, and lucky enough to work, obviously, full-time the last four or five years, whatever it's been. - What did, what's athlete rad look like? - Oh, well, I'm playing footy again. - I saw her, actually. - Yeah, playing a tie-up with-- - Yep, yep. (laughing) - The yabbies, and I'm bloody pumped, bloody pumped. We're gonna have

a good year, and just a great bunch of boys that, I've probably been down to six or seven sessions now, and actually just got a little bit, I shouldn't say this is the opposition, not that they're looking for me anymore, but just got an injection in my knee 'cause it's, I'm 32. (laughing) - Age is just a contract. (laughing) - But yeah, so it's okay, like I've probably neglected my own, it was probably a good lesson throughout sort of my late 20s is like, I started coaching after, straight after VFL, the Under 19s at Bonny,

and just thought I could still do everything, like be on my feet from 8.30 'til 12, and then try and play later that day, and so yeah, it sort of took a back seat so I could support others, but now, especially since Taylor's been really motivated with her fitness, post having Harper, it's sort of gone, no, well, you need to be the role model, you need to sort of do the things that you're asking of your clients and people that trust in you, and I coach seven, eight, and your old boys now as well, so

yeah, so athlete brat is improving, and I don't care if I get a kick, it's more so how I, the effort I put in, more so than the outcome. - What made you wanna go back? - I thought the commitment at Peninsula, the grammar of the school was a bit bigger, it's only sort of an eight week season, plus finals if we're good enough to make it, so really I can still play footy, so last year I was a bit, I was just like, no, I'll focus on coaching, but, and then about five of those

games are on a Friday, so I can actually, I'll probably only miss a couple, depending on travel, so yeah, and just the mateship, and I suppose if I leave at two or three years, I'm probably never gonna go back, or not realistically, and not at a senior level, so yeah, and then my mates, there's Sammy Fox, where we started a business together, he's one of my best mates in my bridal party, and yeah, Happy has come across from Mount Eliza, Jake Greeley, Dale Sutton, Corey Buckin was already there with his two brothers, so. - With Corey's brother North?

- Yes. - Back in the day, way back in the day. He's fixed his knees up enough to get him back to playing footy. - He's the, him and Jared are better players than Corey, but Corey gets all the accolades, nah. - I love that, that's an inside one, I like that. - But they're just a good, and it's a really good vibe, and yeah, I've never thought I'd leave Bomb Beach, such a great club. - Is it tough? - It was, it really was, like I'd, probably the last few years, I hadn't been around

the club as much anyway, but, and like the pain of, I only played in one of the losing three grannies that we've had in the last 10 years, but like, we've been so close, and it's such a good, good bunch of boys, like, we'll get a women's team this year too. I still say we, and I was out at Lang Lang. - Yeah, yeah, I just picked up on that actually, so. - I was out at Lang Lang, and I was talking about Bomb Beach, like, talking about club culture with the under 18s and 16s

down there, and it was just like, I was we, our, and I was just like, oh, like it, and it'll always be part of me, like juniors since I was eight through to, you know, 31. - Yeah, I don't think that's something you lose either. - No. - And like, for me, not necessarily knowing you, I was like, well, like I would call you a Bomb Beach man, 'cause that's what I see. So I can imagine that'd be super tough to transition out of that, but still be in it. But it's, you know, you might be 65, and I guarantee you're still gonna go to some Bomb Beach games, yeah.

- No doubt, I'll be down there when we, when the fixture aligns, for sure, and yeah, I'm trying, all the stuff that I learnt from all the good leaders of Bomb Beach, and there's good leaders at Tyre too, but John, just bring, you know, that Bomb Beach, the second best team in the comp, and Tyre, the second worst in Div 2. - Yep. - There's gotta be a reason why, and how, you know, and even Franks and Bombers, a lot of the boys that come across, like if we can help a little bit, and then

we might not see the rewards, but how good would it be for the competition if Tyre and the Western Port area just get a bit more up? - Yeah, it's highly, highly involved in that area of the world too. And I actually grew up playing my juniors at Pearsale, so being involved in a little bit of that network, understanding kind of what those clubs are made up of, like I 100% get that, 'cause, you know, if Tyre win a premiership one day, don't go to Tyre, I'll tell you that much. There'll be riots in the streets.

- They don't have a pub though, I've noticed. - I don't think that's gonna matter. They'll find a paddock. - True, good bar sales. - Yeah, it was, no, what's, La Luper on the corner? - Yes. - No, just pack into La Luper, don't worry. - Well, Troy Schwartz, he's now the director of coaching at Peninsula, and he talked about like how good the pizza was at Tyre every time that Serena used to play against him. So I've never had one yet, but after our first win, I'll be, I'll be, I'll talk pepperoni. - When you're involved in your sport long enough, you get to know the area and kind of like, what's good about playing in that area?

And I got that from playing cricket, so I played cricket at Danong for nearly 10 years, and you know, you go up to Melbourne, you get some nice little sandwiches, some scones, but you go down the road to Camberwell and it's a feast. So like, you have your spots where you like going to, so I can relate to that as well. What about, what about your youth and growing up? What's, what did that look like for you? What's, what would you, what would you say you identified as? Just as a person, as a young man, I guess.

- Great question. I was a confident young man, yeah, grade six, and then into year seven, that was a really big turning point. I had a really good teacher, Mrs. Gasson at Chelsea Heights Primary School, and I was failing grade five. I was literally just so involved in sport that was under 11, it's like, it's probably my highlight of my sporting career, which is quite funny, but like basketball, football, premiership, cricket, that was just one of those years, and I just neglected homework. So I had a good teacher who just said, Brad, like knuckle down,

like you're gonna repeat, and then you're gonna be an 11 year old or 12 year old in grade five and you know, blah, blah, blah. So I just had someone reach out and care for me, and that changed my whole life around, and then I ended up doing year eight work in year seven at Morty, the SEAL program it's called. So it was just a real big transition of going, stop just focusing on things that maybe aren't that important and really knuckle down and then become really confident. Oldest of four kids, had some family sort

of issues, I suppose, through the teenage years, like no family's perfect, I know that, but it was a relatively tough time, but I put my energy, I suppose, more into things I could control, talking about what you can and can't, and then yeah, really got involved in community. I was really passionate about that, and yeah, identified as a confident person who wanted to help others achieve, and you know, wellbeing is a team sport. I really learnt early on, if we're together and we're working together, we get to actually achieve a lot more than, you know, going out on our own and failing and then having to pick yourself up.

But if we sort of go on a mission together, and I just see a really gravitated team sport and trying to be the best I could be. Really weird, I don't know how it happened, or, you know, if I've got some good influences in my life, but it just sort of happened, I wasn't conscious of it. Very lucky that I had some good support. And yeah, the community at Bomb Beach YCW, or Chelsea YCW, it was called back then, and yeah, school, and you know, mum, dad. - Yeah, I don't know, it's a great question, mate.

It's really, I haven't thought about that. I've thought about a lot of things in my life. I reflect a lot, but that's how did I identify as a kid? - Probably the nice thing about having conversations with somebody you don't know either. I don't know necessarily where you come from, what you are like, or you are now, even to an extent. So I don't know, it's something that the more episodes that do with this, the more I find myself reflecting back on myself anyway. So like, I think that's where that comes from as well. And you just mentioned having some influences and some people around you that kind of shaped the path.

What did that kind of look like for you? - So it definitely, my dad, some of my best mates' families really sort of took me in and sort of felt really welcome, another place to belong and be myself, my authentic self at the time. And yeah, sport was just a real, yeah. And I suppose that's why I've just really made my life gravitate or just sort of be the epicentre of what I do because no matter what challenges you may be going through or other teammates or families are, like it was just always a place

where you could check in regularly, whether it be Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, like a senior footy club or just playing domestic basketball as an under 11 premiership winning team like we were. - I think I won one in 12th, not 11th, but I think 14th was my prime year. It was interesting you talked about that. I was like, oh, I'm trying to reflect on when my, I think 14th was mine as well, so downhill from there. - Like it's so sad 'cause what I see, my mates at Frankston YC have won like 1,002 premierships and I still think that's- - Look, I wasn't gonna bring up YC.

So I played YC for a few years too, so. - Oh, bloody, yeah, they're the benchmark still. But yeah, so I think that's why they were sort of my influences is just people and not so much like LeBron James type people, like not the ones who are the best at what they do, just people being real. And then you sort of, you celebrate that. It's weird. And as a kid, I don't know, like how would I have known that? But I fed off the energy of people who were just real and I still get triggered down by fakeness.

Like I can still feel myself boiling up or people who were just really negative and helpless and I need to get better at that because I like to support people who are in a bad way as well. So that was sort of people who are real with me and we can just have that authentic conversation like we are today. Like I really just sort of vibe off that. - What was, you mentioned under 11s being the peak of your athletic career. (both laughing) - 20 years ago. - Hey, no one needs to know that. Was

sport one of those things you like wanted to work in, I guess, like not as in like professionally working, but was sport ever something you were like, I could be an athlete or I could make it? - Yeah, yeah, I was good enough. I was told I was good enough as a kid to make it. And AFL, my grandpa was quite good at tennis, Australian champion and stuff. So I had the pedigree, I suppose. I was quite small and slight as a kid growing up, but like sort of in juniors, you win your best in Ferris and all that sort of stuff.

So, and then was able to play VFL when I was 18 at Casey and sort of on the path of maybe getting looked at. But yeah, so it was something I wanted to do. I wanted to be Gavin Wanganeen and I wanted to be a good role model effectively for my brothers and sisters. And then also for the next, like without knowing the next generation and just, if I was a leader at the school, I just wanted to be someone who people looked up to. And sport was the easiest, like at assemblies, like they were the people who were celebrated, oh, you know, the district cross country or this or that.

And I think that was like, yeah, that's how I'm gonna make a difference. And if other things were celebrated as a kid, if she won or he won the poetry award, maybe I would have gone into poetry, but at school and in society, sport people are probably celebrated maybe too much, but they were celebrated and still are. And I was like, yeah, if I can make a positive difference, that's how I'm gonna do it. And when I didn't make the elite level and I was still doing bits of uni here and there, doing some teaching, doing a teaching degree, I was working at Dan Murphy's, like I said, and nothing was quite, filled me up.

And that's when, yeah, Sam and I both go, what are we doing with our lives? Let's do it, we're 23. Better do it now before it's too late sort of thing. Actually Foxy is only 21, he's two years younger, but yeah. - Yeah, what was the defining moment when you realised this is maybe not for me? Or period of time, I guess. It's hard to remember a moment 20 years ago. - Yeah, yeah, true. - Or as a young kid. - Yeah, as a younger kid. When did you realise, hey, this is a chance? And

then on the flip side of that, when you maybe as an older, 18, 20 year old, something like that, did you go, maybe I need to find something else here? Do you remember anything specific around kind of like what that felt like? 'Cause I guess like a lot of kids, especially when you talk about sporting stars being celebrated and things like that, when they are role models and put on pedals and things like that. We look at it as kids going, I want to be that. And it's hard for a kid to go, maybe that isn't for me.

- I don't know, was there anything for you in your kind of adulthood or childhood as well that that looked like? - Yeah, there was the belief system that to be a professional athlete, you need to be really selfish. And I think that's maybe why I self-sabotaged a little bit, not giving me a cop-out reason why I didn't make elite sport but there is always reasons or excuses. And I think looking at the, and you do say it in basketball more so than AFL, like the me, me, me attitude. And then there's some like the individual sports people, UFC, like it's just like real ego stroking sort of.

So when I saw that, and then I'm probably the way my dad and my mum and the people I cared about viewed that. Their view systems on, you won't be able to see your wife, you're away 40 weeks of the year, blah, blah, blah. All these sorts of words and conversations having in the household. I think that was almost something that turned me off from maybe actually fully giving it a go. 'Cause I'm like, oh, I don't wanna be the person that will go. He only cares about himself. He's not in it for anyone else. So that was a conflict that all went through in my teenage years.

And now with the work that we do, it's definitely, that definitely shaped it because the holistic experience for the kids, it's like, for instance, one of the guys I'm working closely with now, Patty Ryder, like you can tell- - He's a conceptual human, by the way. Someone you walk past in the, obviously I work at Tequila, so you walk past him, he says hello every time. - Yeah, and that's exactly right. And it's probably, and now I sort of think, oh, misconceptions of what professional athletes are, and they're actually really good people, but not all of them are, of course.

Accountants aren't all good people. So it's just not the profession. It's the makeup of the person. But I want every kid who has that dream to fulfil it. I want them to understand that those, your parents' views on the world aren't factual. Like you've got to, but let's work on your mindset. Let's work on how you treat people. Let's work on your nutrition. And just the whole person, because Patty's an AFL Life member now, of course, which is amazing. But, and not everyone gets a 15-year career, but now he's got, he's 34. He's got what, 40, 50, 60 years of life, well after his AFL career.

So that's just a small example of what's really important in life. It's to be a good person first and a good athlete second. If you can do both simultaneously, bang, awesome. - What was it like playing VFL? - Hard, hard. I played only four VFL games, and was on a list for six years. So got injured a lot, played probably 80-odd games in the twos. So if there wasn't a twos in the VFL, I reckon I was probably listed 40th to 50th each time. Maybe one year I was probably in the top sort of 30. But other than that, the other times I was sort of really on the cusp.

So I'm now on the board at Frankston, and there's only a list of 43, plus maybe three on top. And then our Dolphins Academy. Yeah, I wouldn't have made my lifelong mates that I'm going on a golf trip next weekend with like- - Oh, I forget, no, it'd be later. I love my golf. - Yeah, actually I've seen a lot of bad hit at Mornington Golf Club. So yeah, it was tough because, and not just for me, for every VFL player, even currently at Frankston, I'm so proud of what they go through and watching them apply their trade.

'Cause as you work in a high performance business, but also at St Kilda, like you see what the girls and the boys get each week. We've got Shanna, who was our captain, and Boz, who was our captain when I was there 10 years ago. Both hardworking tradies who don't get massaged four times a week and don't probably hydrate enough 'cause they can't and all that sort of stuff. So like so proud of being a part of a list that works probably three times as hard to get 95 times less money. - Handsome. - Yeah, so like you get more money at local than VFL, which maybe people not involved in footy don't understand.

- Yeah, it's crazy, hey. - It's a real apprenticeship. And then that's why it's always sort of an under 23 comp. - Yeah, one of my housemates is actually playing at Frankston. - Oh, nice. - Came down from New South Wales and Greg Fizz next door set it all up. So I've got Seb Quirk living with me here now. - Quirky, nice. - Little seedy stash man. - Fantastic. No, we're looking at some work for him. So that's good. Yeah, it's good to, we'll have to meet him. Put a face to his like him. So he's GWS Academy.

- Yes, GWS Academy, he moved down from Canberra. I think it actually might be the first time he's moved out of home. Haven't seen him cook much. - Yeah, he's only 19. - Yeah, I haven't seen him cook much. I'll tell you that much. - Magic noodles will do, mate. - No, not a few pre-cooked Woolies meals. Like he's pretty locked in with the nutrition, but I'll teach him how to cook. - Yeah, fantastic. Oh, that's cool. I can't wait for that. And yeah, there's another boy, Riley Stone from the Gold Coast Academy too. So once again, real young kids, but real talent and yeah, they'll love the VFL.

- Yeah, what do you, how do you reckon VFL improves? - Say that again. - How do you think VFL improves? - How does it improve? - Yeah. - Well, I think, oh, it's a hard one. - It's a hard one because there's so much that goes into one of those programs, but also so little at the same time. Like trying to maximise the resources available, but also trying to maximise the time, trying to still look after, if I want to talk about Frank Steer, like the men, like they're, as you said, someone on tools 10 hours before they go to training.

So how do you think that can change over time and what, you know, I do well, would you like it to look like from an improvement point of view? - Yeah. - It's hard. - Yeah, I think it's been tough. Like I've got to be really mindful of what I say. - Awesome. - Yeah, it's bigger than me. Like just with the roles that we do at the club. But yeah, I think I'd really like to see more investment into the VFL program just from an AFL point of view. - Of course. - Just because

the gap is getting bigger, no matter like, and just essentially just need to have, even it out a little bit and will it ever, it's never been even, you know, 10 years ago, like the standalone clubs, unless they have the resources and, you know, we don't have pokies, we don't have sort of the income stream that yes, we've got an awesome function center, functions by the bay, get on board. - Oh, great space. - I utilize it a lot and, you know, it's really affordable compared to some other areas around Frankston. - Greg's done some workshops in this.

- Yep. - And they're a fair bit. - Good spot, isn't it? - Yeah, exceptional. - Good sunset to the AFLW games this year. - Yes. - Hawthorne's home game. So it's a good spot to use and, but like, yeah, we don't have the income revenues that are probably, you know, that you use at other people's expenses, like gambling addicts. - Absolutely. - So, but yeah, there's, you know, a couple of things you can apply for as a standalone club, but at the end of the day, it's very tough when you're against, right? And there's no cap really.

You can have 20 St Kilda listed players in a, which I think we did last year when we were at Trevor Barker Oval against Sandringham. So. - Yeah. I should remember that game. - But other than the first quarter, it wasn't too bad. I think it was maybe 10 goals in the end, but so, and then we beat Geelong by a hundred points almost and Carlton come back by nine goals at three quarter time. So they still have 15 listed players. So it's not as if we're not good enough. It's just more so that it's like you're playing chess and you don't get to see the board until they're halfway through the game, so.

- Yeah, it's interesting. And the reason that I asked that question is I was having a question, I have a question, having a conversation with one of my clients downstairs about VFL and he was, he's been involved in a VFL club before and what it looked like. And we were talking about it and I asked him the same question, like how does it get better or how does it even out? And, you know, you look at the AFL over the last few years, like to be fair, the comps probably evened out a fair bit. I

mean, the top two and the bottom two are probably worlds apart, but from kind of three to 15, a lot of them are on a very similar level. You're not sure what you're gonna get. And, you know, we were having just an interesting conversation around kind of how did that happen? What's it look like now? You know, what are we looking towards? I mean, you see Melbourne go from tragically bad to, you know, best in the comp, so. And a lot of that comes down to time in, effort and evaluation of, you know, how do we get better?

But also let's tap into what we're really good at. And on the back of that, what are Frankston really good at? So I haven't ever really directly been involved in Frankston, we had a few clients and athletes go through there, but from the outside looking and the change that you guys have been over and the things you've been through for the last kind of five to 10 years is huge. How has it improved from where it was and what are some of the things you'd love to involve yourself in or you are involving yourself in that you're really proud of?

- Yeah, another good question, mate. Like I think, so I started on the board November 2019. Peter Geddes is president, ex-Listan medal winner and a great leader, he does leadership. And like I think that, and it's the same with, I think North Melbourne are a good example of a team that's gonna improve in the AFL sphere 'cause it sort of looks like they've got their back end starting to chime and unfortunately, and unfortunately, VFL, everything's a business, even local footy, that's a business. You can see the well-run clubs at the back end and then you get the results on field.

So I sort of, I still think we got a way to go in terms of how we sort of get enough support, sort of only got a couple of staff members really. And then you've got the clubs that have five people doing one person's role. So like we're up against it in that sense, but from an on-field perspective and getting our women's, we're going into our third season, sort of obviously off the back of COVID and with the aim of obviously playing VFLW within the next 24 months. And that's been a real big plus because we've made a real concerted effort not to sort of go after clubs that had already been established.

It's hard to get sort of talent, I suppose, when you're not going after the best three or four players, 'cause at the end of the day, they're just playing against each other. But with the mindset that we wanna play against the Darabans and the other AFL aligned clubs, really. So proud of that. The way that the boys and the VFL program has just gone up in professionalism, like what Steve Roberts brought to the club the last couple of years. What Danny Ryan, what Ricky Johnston has brought from a motivational and just good experience and knowledge. And good people, people, good people make good humans.

Or good people make, you know what I mean. - I know what you mean. - Good people make good dolphins. - Put that on a T-shirt. - Yeah, yeah, sell it. - Yeah, go on then. - Do a bit of drive. I didn't come up with that. That's JR, Danny Ryan. But it's probably the people and then just the ability just to work hard and then sort of be the blue collar sort of, and just owning your identity and just fulfilling it. I'm massively proud of just being a half a percent of not even, just a part of it.

And whether you're a member or someone who does have a little bit of influence within the club, it's just a great club to be in. You see the lights from the moon. I was in Mordialloch the other day. I could see the lights across the bay. It's just a, it should be the epicentre of what is the MCG of the peninsula and we need to start treating it like that. And as local clubs, we need to get around it. - New sponsor now, I believe. - What's that? - New sponsor now for the oval we're up.

- New sponsor, yeah, Kinetic. So still related to Skybus, so Kinetic. So they're byproduct of the same business. So yeah, they see them on the back of the buses and they're moving people. - Very good, exciting. What about the women's programming sites? You said getting a VFL license. What does that look like? What's the process of trying to buy for, not buy, that's not what I meant, to vie for a VFLW license? - Lots of money. - That is a bit, yeah. - Yeah, it is. It's a big process and it's, yeah, I suppose results have to go our way as well.

So we need to be, we don't want to go into a comfort, one for our girls sake, losing by a hundred points, but also just for the competition's legitimacy. So yeah, and a lot of fundraising, a lot of, yeah, a lot of effort from the backend grants, that sort of stuff, but it's definitely possible. And the girls have really bought in and we've definitely had a lot of good people help out at the club. Jess Jones has been, she was just on the board for the last couple of years. She's done a great job of just really making sure that we've got the focus on the long-term.

Sometimes we get caught up in sort of the short-term wins, but we want to make sure that that happens for the just girls on the peninsula too. Like, why do they have to travel all the way? If they're not up to AFLW standard yet, let's help, same as the stingrays and coming to the dolphins, we want to see Brodie McLachlin's and also Liam Reedy get drafted. We want to see that for the girls too in our area. - How many did you get drafted last year? It was a few. - Two, yeah, two. And yeah, I think, I don't know if there's any other local clubs, any other VFL clubs who got two.

I don't know the stats. I am footy head, but I don't know. But yeah, Fremantle and Gold Coast and two big boys and they'll do really well. They're really good people who bought into the club and I just, yeah, I hope whatever happens, they'll be better for the experience at AFL level and I'm excited for them. - Very good, very good. Let's talk less. Give your brain a bit of a break. What's a hobby look like? What do you like to do away from life and sport? I'm gonna fix this cord up for you too. I've just stopped filling with it.

- Cheers, mate. - You just have to stop ducking yourself in and out. I got you. - Thanks, man. Hobby. - What do you like to do after dinner? So hobby is a very, very broad term and you know, for me, hobby is golf, but I don't always get four hours in my day to go play golf. And the question I like to actually ask is, what do you do after dinner? 'Cause that's, for a lot of people, that's downtown. Downtown. Downtown. - Downtown. (laughing) - Don't start adding a button for that. (laughing) Yeah, what's after dinner look like?

- With the work that we do, like it's, I haven't even had dinner yet. What is it? - Me either, so I feel ya. - 8.30. So I think after dinner, it's really just family time. It's getting, getting Harper to sleep. I've got a two and a half year old and yeah, it's just amazing. Honestly, this morning, I said I had a busy sort of day, but the first two hours of my day was awesome 'cause I just spent it with Harper. - Yeah. - And it's just, it's literally, you see the world through a child's eyes when you've got one who just, you just wanna be like, "Oh, what do you think?"

And what, you know, and it's just, it's almost mindfulness in itself, just understanding sort of what other people might be seeing and just time to sort of sit back, relax and just understand that whatever might be going on in here isn't that important to her. So therefore be present, don't be on my phone. You know, that's a real big thing, like addictions and stuff like that. Like of a height, I'm sort of all or nothing. So I'm really big on, you know, trying to be as present as possible 'cause I just don't think that's fair on the other people that you're around.

But yeah, hobbies, yeah, love my golf. But after dinner, we're at a sporting club on a Thursday night last week, got home at 9.30. So it's sort of like work can kind of merge into after dinner, but any sort of time I get to myself, I just sort of, as boring as it is, I just like to reset and spend it with Harper. If I can't, I'm just, yeah, just listening to a good potty. So yeah, like David Goggins last week, that was fun. - Excellent. - Yeah, just like I'm always trying to personally develop because then if I can impasse that to someone else, then that's a real win.

And then now I get my smiles, so yeah. - Do you struggle to switch off? - Yeah, it sounds like it, doesn't it? - Not in a bad way, 'cause I mean, I'm very similar and obviously working in a similar field of people. A lot of the time, especially when I finish and leave here at 8.30, like I go home and touch up five programs and reply to 15 emails and give back 20 messages. So I kind of relate to that in the way that sometimes my hobby is actually really what I do. And I

think that's what obviously keeps me coming back and it's 'cause I'm doing something that I love that a hobby for me doesn't necessarily have to be an exit. Like me writing programs is actually quite therapeutic for me and it's part of my job that I have to do and touching up, make things more specific because I know the outcome that I can make in the person. To me, I think that's also a hobby to do and I always get told to stop working and put the laptop off and while you're applying the messages at 2 a.m.

and while you're sending my program at 3.30 in the morning. Well, sometimes that's just kind of what you're doing. I wouldn't do it if I didn't like to do it. - Yeah, such a good point. - Yeah, how has Dad Life changed you? - It has, yeah, like allowed me to switch off because like I was saying with the phone, like in obviously emails and texts and contacts and stuff are always there and you wanna get back to people and show respect and get back to people straight away but it has just sort of realigned

my values of being present, being someone who is, yeah, is there and not just there for the sake of it but actually really there because in the field that I have worked in and still continue to work in with mental health, like you just never know how important that conversation could be as well. Like from a really sort of dark place but it's also just about being a genuine person and you want people to feel like, yep, when I'm with Brad or Mitch, like I'm someone who like actually cares because I think naturally people care but we just don't show it sometimes.

Like I had to pull up one of my good mates last year while walking around through the COVID sort of thing around Paddo River. Just had to say, why are you asking me a question and you're on your phone texting while you listen to me? Like that, and that's not 'cause he doesn't care about me. It's just more the fact that he's just a habit. - Yeah. - And to me it's like, oh no, that's more important. - A lot of time it's subconscious but it's the effect that it has on people they don't really realise until someone calls us out on it.

- Yeah, and I know what it feels like as I'm sure we all do, like what our parents, how they react or don't react to certain things and if I'm not, if I'm on my phone and then Harper sees that and she's like, dad, dad, dad, and I'm not responding. It's like, that can be really catastrophic for her. Not to like make everyone second guess every action we do, 'cause I'm not gonna be perfect but it's like, no, you are more important to me than this thing and we wonder why kids are addicted to devices 'cause they probably also see their parents do it.

- Have influence, we were talking about before, yeah. - Yeah, exactly. - What's seeing you love Harper to do when she grows up? - Oh, just be happy. - Yeah. - That's the old John Lennon thing. - Yeah, love it. - What do you wanna do when you grow up? - Yeah, and she's totally different to Taylor and I. So that's really exciting. Like I'm happy to go to musicals and do things out of my comfort zone as long as she's happy. Like she doesn't have to play sport, of course. Like if she finds that

belonging and connection with people who she likes to be around and it makes her a better person, then yeah, I just, yeah, honestly would not care. Just if she's a good contributing member of society, that'd be awesome and help other people become their best selves too. It's a lot of pressure to put on someone, but good luck. She'll be all right. - It'll still be on YouTube in two and a half, maybe 10 years when you'll allow her on YouTube. - Yeah, she'll be able to just like tap her brain three times and this will come up.

- She'll hit her wrist or something. - Yeah, that's right. There's dad when he was, you know, hopefully big. And then when she sees me, it'll be like ripped like Tay. - I'm Taylor, how'd you guys meet? - Sporting club, of course, sport. - Seeing a theme. - It's the connector. - Yeah, absolutely. - Well, if you spend 160 of your 168 hours there, you're gonna- - Absolutely. - At Bomb Beach. So she wasn't a net baller at all, but she wanted to play sports. So yeah, 2017, March 24th, I think was our season launch. So yeah, I remember the night and yeah, it was like, it's really cool just to sort of see someone and be like, she's cool.

Like she just had a different aura. And then yeah, got to properly meet her two weeks later, round one. - Yep, kind of moves where you're spinning. (laughing) Didn't think you were gonna talk about this, did you? - No, she's gonna hate this. - That's okay. - I just, I was actually really nervous, but yeah, just sort of talked to her. We were actually, after the round one, so I don't know, that was my memory six years ago. She, yeah, we're up at the deck before it had the-- - Before it had the nice roof, yeah.

- Yeah, and it was a nice night though, actually. But yeah, we sort of just had a chat and a friend sort of left to go to the toilet or something. So we actually chatted and it was really awkward, but like she smiled and made me feel good. And yeah, so I wasn't doing anything. I was just like, and I could understand, 'cause I'm quite a confident person, but at this time I was just like, blubbering. So I think she picked up on that. And then we had our first official date, sort of April 25th. - Nice movies, dinner, what are we talking about?

- I went to Morty Pier, sort of got some fish and chips, I think, 'cause-- - Scenic. - Both sort of pescatarian at the time, it was scenic. Morty, I was just saying, I was school captain at Morty in 2008, you guys, I don't care, Brad. - Glory spots, stomping grounds, yeah. - That's right, like, oh, I used to own this strip. Nah, so that and then, yeah, Southland Village Cinemas. - There you go, it's always movies. - Yep, it's always movies. - I don't know, I feel like it's gonna be less common, but I feel like it's a great place.

You don't have to talk for two hours, it's great. - True, and you can think about maybe the first couple of combos you might have afterwards. Instead of dinner, you're just like, don't eat, don't talk when I'm eating. - Yeah, don't wanna look like I've got food on my face. - Especially the beard. - Yeah, I feel ya. What are some values or things you love about Taylor? - Authentic, like, just so matter of fact a lot of the time, but she's also very empathetic. So I love the way that she just, she wants what's best for ya, but she doesn't dance around it.

So it's something I lack. I'm probably more of a people pleaser and she's to some degree too. Like she's quite good, but and yeah, obviously how she makes me feel about myself. - Sure. - But yeah, and everybody loves her. Like she's infectious with her smile and yeah, genuine heart and wants people to be better too. And that's why she's a counsellor and mindset coach. - Yeah, what does her role look like for you? - In our relationship or in our business? - Yeah, maybe both. And kinda what's that dynamic look like? Who's who's boss? (laughing) Careful.

- She's, if you didn't know, she's an ex elite karate athlete. So she's definitely the boss. - I've got a little karate athlete who I work with and I say little, she's like 16. I'm definitely scared of her, but she's so gentle and calm and like, how do you do this for a living? - It's even scarier. - I can imagine, right? And she has an infectious smile too. So it must be a defining characteristic of a karate athlete. - Yeah, absolutely guys. The confidence of like, I'm Kiki in the temple. - Oh, 100%. - In half a second.

- Yep. - Yeah. - And I won't, but I could. - Exactly. Yeah, it's almost like the horror movies where you see the four year old kid and just like scared of like the innocence of that and like, what could you do? - Yeah, there's the potential. That's all I need. - That's right. - That's all, fear is in the mind. But yeah, she's definitely capable. But nah, she's definitely the boss. She's the glue, what all mothers go through with childbirth and then the ability to be so strong in tough situations. Like I said, we're going through a bit of change at the moment with things and she's just amazing.

So yeah, very, very admirable. And then in the business, yeah, she strategises. Like you were saying earlier about Lockie and myself are similar, like we like to do a thousand things. She's a little bit more like measured and go, oh, why don't we just focus on this and do it well? And so she's a bit more realistic potentially, more than opportunistic or yeah, so. And then yeah, her experience, like she's got the degree. She's someone who is really good to talk to people in really tough situations, which she's had to obviously in the job that she does and she works at a high school too, which is really challenging.

So yeah, she's just a bit of everything. Like we suppose with the business that we've got, like we probably juggle eight different roles. She's definitely the PR and the IH&S and she's gross. - Awesome. What's looking forward? What are you excited about from both personal and professional eyes for you or for both of you even? - Yeah, just the future. It's unknown and it's... I'm just honestly like, I've never been sort of that, what are you gonna be in five years person? 'Cause I wouldn't have thought that what we're doing now is possible. - Me too.

- Probably, yeah. - I feel like I struggled to think past a year to be honest though. - Yeah. - And I don't know if that's just a block of me not wanting to know, but also I just don't think I want to. Like I love just, I love sporadicness, but I'm also like a heavily planned person. So I don't know, I kind of bounced between a few of them, but I really, really struggled to look past, like for reference, I'm going to the States at the end of the year on a bit of a solo trip with some mates and potentially they'll join me over there.

But I haven't really thought past that. - Yeah. - What are you doing coaching? You still gonna stay at Saints? What's the vertices look like? I don't know. Tell me in 12 months time, I'll work it out then. - Yeah. - Are you someone who bounces between that or are you pretty just like take it as it comes? - Yeah, honestly take it as it comes. And I think not that it's wasted energy 'cause I think it's great. And we talk about goal setting with most of the sessions we do. So I think it's important to have broad sort of goals.

If we get a little bit bogged down with the specifics, I know smart goals are very important like for mainly short term stuff, but like then kind of for me, I feel like you sort of miss potential other things that put you in a direction that may be better suited. However, everyone's different. So for athletes, you might really need to be really focused on something to get the best out of yourself. But if we're not open to new things or new opportunities, then we can really get stuck in an area that we don't wanna be.

Like I'm sure a lot of our parents in that era probably didn't wanna work in the same job for 40 years, but they did because that's what was done. So I like the idea of who knows and just sort of adapt, adapt or die at Goggins. - Amen. What's a shoe for the moon golf consulting business? What do you want it to, if time, money and anything wasn't a barrier, what would you love to do that you're not currently doing or where would you like to end up I guess? - I'd love to do what we do in different states.

I think what we can do can easily happen all over Australia and then probably international. I'd love to travel a bit. - You've done much travel? - No, not really, just footy trips. - Let's not get into that, shall we? - No, no, no. - I mean, we can, but. My only really trips have been international were footy trips, so I haven't really seen many of the sites of what the great world's got to offer. So that'd be great. - Bucket list, where are you going? - Europe, yeah, sort of the France, not the party scene obviously anymore, but also just the nice spots for, especially if we can do it before Harper sort of settles into school.

It'd be really cool to learn that language from the France, Spain, Italy. And yeah, even England, just sort of an opportunity to grow and develop in a foreign area without the, yeah, you've got to sort of make it on your own a little bit, which I love the support of people around us and I love giving that support. But if you're there, then this is like sink or swim. Just do it, hope you swim. - What about true for the moon business? We kind of got sidetracked. - Yeah, it did. - That rabbit hole we were talking about.

- Yeah, it did, I was just like, oh, let's do it here, do it there. - I'm excited, 'cause from the outside looking in, I love what you're doing. So I'm like, oh, selfishly I want to know kind of like what you're looking towards. - Yeah, honestly, it's just about sort of taking each day as it comes. How many more cliches can I put in? - As many as you like, it's a football thing. - It is a football thing. Watch too much of the media. I was never media trained, which I regret. I wish I had have been.

Actually, my sister said something really, really good the other day. And she doesn't really like sport or anything. She's like, oh, 'cause with the work that I'm sort of doing with athletes coming out of the games, it's just sort of, and VFL players and XAFL and AFIW players giving back to the kids. It was like, it's almost like you're a manager for the players after their career and help them find out what they want to do. And I was like, yeah, a little bit. 'Cause I've had that chat with Trenton a few times. TDL, he's one of the most amazing humans I've ever met.

And he's now full time in footy at the Western Jets as a coach. - He got nabbed. - He did, he did get nabbed. And yeah, he's great at St Kilda too. And yeah, just like, I just love having conversations with people who have been a lead at what they do. It's been taken away from them. And then like, oh, how do we bounce back? What do we do? What does life look like? So I actually, from a shoot from the moon point of view, it's pretty small, I suppose. But I love helping others bounce back from setbacks.

So if I could do that on a bigger scale with people who really need it. So whether they're unknown from a person or whatever. But yeah, well, let's go global. - Why not? - Let's go to space this year. - Go on then. - Shoot from the moon. - Yeah. - Which way? - Yeah, that's cool. What about you? - I don't know. - You're going to the States already? - Yeah. - For work or pleasure? - Depends, are you my tax agent or? (laughing) No, so I've been over to the States. This is my fourth time going over.

And I really enjoy travel. I love travel. But for me, as much as I like the leisure of travel, I really like meeting new people, having very similar conversations to this. And how I kind of got myself around last time is I went in 2018. It's actually just before I got the same job. It's how I got the same job, to be fair, actually. I went in 2018, I gathered up a bunch of connections from going to seminars, listening to presentations. Instagram was on a smaller scale than what it is now. But I would always, whoever I wanted to connect with, I would say, "Hey, love your presentation.

"Hey, really enjoyed it. "I was in the crowd." And then I'd ask them a token question or two of what are you currently looking at? Or what's the room for improvement? Just something around those lines. And then before I went over to the States, I would reply back to the same threat, whether that was Instagram or an email, and say, "Hey, I'm coming over. "Can I buy you lunch?" Or, "Can we go out with coffee?" Or, depending on who it was, "Can we grab a beer?" And I would just go down and have similar connections, very similar to this.

It's just, "Hey, I wanna have a chat. "Just wanna meet you." So I did that last time. I definitely wanna do more of that next time I go over. And lots of people think I'm gonna stay there, but that's undecided yet. So for me, again, I don't necessarily have a shoot from the moon. I mean, I'd love to see this place go eight times the size of what it currently is, because I think the things that we do here and the systems and the processes we use are very, very scalable. It's just getting out of Mornington.

You saw at the back, it's such a nice space. It's a nice spot for us to have our home base, and whether that looks like a bigger boat or a different boat or, yeah. So I think the same stuff as what I'm currently doing, just on a greater scale, 'cause bigger's always better. - Yeah. (laughs) - And we have 150 members here. So it's a pretty successful business, I would say. And obviously, I don't have shares or anything in Virtus. And to me, the business is something I really, really care about, but the growth of it is something I also really care about.

And as I said before, I love what I do. The more athletes I get exposed to, the more people I meet, and I'm a real connections-based kind of guy. So for me, it's just, again, expanding my network. It's kind of all I really like, pretty simple guy. - Yeah. - Shipping two Bernese Mountain dogs to America, they might be a bit of a challenge. (laughs) - And how old are they? - One is three and a half, and one is 18 months. But the 18-month-old is the bigger one. He's nearly 70 kilos, so he's a hefty boy.

- Wow. - But yeah, for me, it's true for the moon. I just love to do what I do on a bigger scale. But also, I really enjoy leading people and managing people and helping them grow very similar to us. A lot of the stuff I do here is PD for interns, and I run our internship program even for our coaches and staff with Tyler and Jazz. It's just kind of upskilling them on what they want to get better at. And I think, for me, having more connections and conversations with people helps me get a

bit more of an understanding of all of that kind of stuff, and just taking little things from different areas and trying to cultivate, which is a nice little segue into what we're about to, into cultivate development of just people. And I definitely haven't done everything in life, and I definitely don't do everything perfectly, but bringing some of the stuff that I learn from people into their development, that's kind of what I love to do. And I get a great experience with that, running our internship program. We said our kids are pretty impressionable, even union students are the same.

So I teach at Deakin, we have five, six, we have four at the moment, we have up to kind of eight interns come through here and curate their development, which is kind of what I love to do, so. - Yeah, absolutely, mate, that's so cool. And yeah, it's okay not to, I suppose, have the ship to the moon. Like, I think at the end of the day, if you can communicate and can be someone who adds value to other people's lives, it comes back tenfold. So yeah, I'm sure whatever, you'll know when you know over there or here, when you just go, yeah, that's what I'll do.

- Yeah, absolutely. - That's what I'm gonna do. - I think a lot of us who work in our health and fitness sport industry, we're there because we either didn't reach the heights that we wanted to, so we're trying to help others do the same thing, but also we care about development and sport is a great modality for us that really, really loves sport, to be able to curate that in other people as well. So I think for the most part, people that work in health and fitness and sport development, even like tactical skill development as well, like we're there because we wanna help people.

And I think, I mean, this place is a great example of that of a lot of people don't come to Virtus for the gym. They come because of the people in the community and it's the other things that are on top of that. And I think even for like sporting clubs and stuff like that, I'm sure you'll have highly, highly experiences that is a lot of people don't go to the sporting club for the sporting club, but it's not for the sport, it's for the things that come with the sport. So for me, it's something in that environment, something like that, who knows?

As you said, you'll know when you know. - Exactly. - And even then, you're probably not gonna know. (laughing) - And then you'll learn and then you'll grow and then you'll-- - You'll change and adapt and have another illustrious thing you wanna chase. - Exactly, that's the growth is a human need. - Excellent, shall we divert? - Let's do it. - Curate youth development. So I really, really love working with kids. Older than 12, can't do the younger. - Not primary. - Ankle biters. Nah, can't do primary school. Can't do that, my mom works in primary school.

So some of the stuff like she comes home with is not for me. - Fair enough. - Youth development, what's-- - Eating glue sticks. - Oh yeah, all sorts of things. I'm not even gonna go down that path. Youth development. So, not just from a skill point of view, we're gonna talk about sport a bit here, but from mindset, what is the most exciting part for curating youth development, I guess? - Yeah, sponges then, I do work probably, or half and half between primary and secondary age. So let's focus on the primary. I think the most important, what I really like about it is, we've sort of got a duty of care.

We definitely, as adults, you don't have to be a teacher or you just need to be just a human being who's hopefully aware of your influence. We know if we have the self reflection to actually go back to when we were kids, like, remember when you're in prep and then you saw the grade sixes and they were your buddies, maybe some schools do the buddy system. It was like, oh my God, they're huge. But they'll never be that big. Then you think an adult and you're just like, well, the power dynamic and the respect that automatically goes with having a beard or just being a woman, it's just totally different.

So kids are always looking and seeking approval of what they're doing, what they're thinking and is it okay? And so what I like, I suppose, to work with the kids is that you gotta be their biggest fan and you need to be the person that is an acceptable member of society. So I think from a mindset point of view, just I think there's enough people in the world and enough distractions in the world with social media and people who haven't worked out there and shit. There's enough negativity out there. So it's just, for me, I

just love creating similar to Virtus and what I see from a vibrancy point of view is just being someone who wants to support what they're doing and celebrating the wins. And then hopefully that can help their mindset, have their own self-talk going, I am good enough. Yes, let's do it. Talking about that thing at the start with the Frankston High School yesterday, 350 kids. That's a lot of people. And then your inner voice goes, I'm not good enough. I'm an imposter. What happens if this person says that? Or blah, blah, blah. And kids do that. It's like that little monkey voice.

So it's just about going, no, no, it's okay. That's normal. And yeah, so I think for their development, they just need more people in their corner. We all do, like adults as well. But I think you have more influence with kids because that's the stuff that'll stay with them through their challenges later in life. - Where do you start? Like when you first work with a group, a club, an individual kid, a group of kids, like what's the thing you look at, this is my starting point and we'll adapt from there. Like do you have one or is it a change of the environment or are some of your pillars and concepts like similar across the board?

- Yeah, good question. Like I should have prefaced this. Like I'm not a counsellor or a mindset coach or anything. I'm just a person. - Everyone's a counsellor in a way. - Yeah, we are, but just don't have the degree or quals. So just wanted to say that 'cause if there's someone listening going, what the hell? Like that doesn't make any sense from a professional point of view, but maybe it will one day. But yeah, can you ask that question again? Sorry, Mitch. - Yeah, no, not at all. - Just in regards to where do I start, wasn't it?

- Yeah, so like kind of when you approach, let's just say a project, whether that's an individual, a group, a community, a club, is there a point where you go, let's start from here and then we'll divulge and divert based on what some feedback we get back or the input we get back from the crowd, shall we say? Is there something that's your starting point when you talk about development or mindset as well? - Yeah, I think starting point, I'll go back to the second most recent one 'cause the Frankston one wasn't so much, we can't engage, we can't have conversations.

- Yeah, it's hard. - 350 kids, more of a lecture, unfortunately. There's a few things, but Lang Lang, there was only 30 kids, so that was a bit more intimate. So kids under 18s and 16s. And you start with being vulnerable, I think, and being honest about who you are. Like you don't wanna go out there and say, you don't wanna go, I did this and this is really bad about me and all that sort of stuff. It's more about feeling the room for sure and understanding and doing a bit of your own homework in

terms of like who the people are at the club, if we're talking from a club culture point of view, and then just being honest and the more we sort of put ourselves out there and say, I wet the bed till I was 12 or whatever it might be, not that he wouldn't do that in every setting, but you allow people to go, wow, that's, he's got issues, I've got issues, that's okay. There's that sort of offering and that's where I always start is just like, if I'm real and people can tell I care coming from a place of care, then I know from a mindset point of view, from the crowd or the audience or what are we there for?

We're there to create positive club culture. If we give permission to be themselves, then they're not gonna feel like their mates aren't their mates because they're only 50% of themselves and they've got this bravado perhaps. So that's where you always start. You start with yourself and make sure that you're in the right frame of mind and for them to model behaviour. And then you celebrate it. Oh, that's so, so good, mate. Like, well done, Blake. There's this kid out there and he was just so, you could tell he was the coolest guy in the club, but he was just like, he was just talking real.

I'm just like, that's awesome. I don't know if people celebrate that enough. That's cool. And then that gives permission to the guy who's the bad back pocket player who doesn't feel like he belongs 'cause he doesn't get a kick in the game, but, and yeah, so that's sort of where I start, I suppose, without consciously thinking about it. Yeah, until I get asked a question from me. This is good for my development, thank you. You're welcome. Performance coach. What's, I mean, do you want to share your vulnerability? Like where do you start specifically? 'Cause everyone's different.

Yeah, well, it depends on the setting. So mental health bias, I talk a fair bit about, like my, and there's a lot of clubs in the peninsula that have had us come out. So sort of talk a little bit about my experiences with my family, with mental health and addiction, and then how that's impacted me and the signs of me starting to go down that path and understanding the genetics behind it, but also just the learnt behaviour. And then putting my hand up going, yeah, I did that. I lost X amount of money and I did this, I did that.

And just sort of, 'cause it's true and there's people who have maybe a perception on everyone. We've got this fake bravado and social media is a great example of our highlights in our life. So like, unless you actually, there's so much power in being authentic because then other people don't compare themselves to something else and something fake. And then we can be like, oh shit, wow. Like that's, I feel better about myself and you're not sort of going to bed thinking you're less worthy of the air that we breathe. So yeah, it depends on the situation.

Then obviously, if I'm with a five year old kid with autism, that's not relevant or important. So it's always dependent on their situation. - Trying to shape the path for what they need too. - Yeah, and you just want to give them what they need. Challenge in certain ways, but also just, at the end of the day, it's just, you're doing awesome. Like it's really simple. - You're nearly trying to give them a place to be a part of something that again, they feel welcome in to an extent. - Absolutely, absolutely. - Do you see

a common theme with kids, especially nowadays on things that they really struggle with and like some common themes you might find in some of your work? - Common themes probably, probably lack of social skills in terms of, or it can be like anyone when things are going well and we're both playing video games or we're both kicking the footy or playing dodge ball, like great, but when you get challenged, it's like what I find is the struggle is that they don't know, I don't know if it's the word know, but they don't know how to compromise potentially.

Like I find that, and maybe it's kids being kids, but I found it and like everyone's using pre-COVID, post-COVID is like before Christ up. Like, and to some degree there's some merit in it, but I think the learnt behaviours of not, of sort of looking out for yourself and doesn't matter about anyone else, like we sort of turned to the toilet paper thing when people sort of, you know, all bought toilet paper and didn't care about the next person and had to wipe their bum. Like, it's almost like kids saw that and go, yeah, all that matters is me and I'm all right, Jack, sort of thing.

So I definitely think that when there's conflict, there's less resiliency, like unfortunately, like mental health has really taken a deep dive and more people, I suppose we probably attract people who wanna reach out and stuff, which is, comes with, I suppose, being a good listener or feeling like you're there and I wouldn't change that for the world, but I just feel like there's a lot of teenagers and stuff that are just like, life's too hard and they put up the barriers a bit earlier than maybe what we did when we were sort of teenagers. - How do you break down those barriers?

'Cause I, and again, I'm presuming this, I'm presuming a lot of people that come to you are ready to break down the barrier, but do you get exposed to people that aren't? Especially, I probably take this from more of a sporting club as you talked about bravado before, a lot of people don't, it's not that they don't necessarily want to, it's just they're not prepared to do it now. Like, how do you curate that in a way of kind of saying, let's start the process of that? - Yeah. - 'Cause it's tough. - Yeah, it is, it is.

- It's very similar downstairs in the gym, to be fair, like a lot of people that come to the gym aren't ready for change. It's reaching the ones that aren't ready to try and bring them along for the ride as well. - And if it starts with the-- - If you work it out, let me know, 'cause that's a good business idea. (laughing) - Yeah, it's, no, oh, so tough. Like, I consciously, and there's this little voice in my head, I suppose, that goes, oh, something's not right here, like with that person, for whatever reason. It's like an energy thing.

- Yeah, 100%. It's an intuition that you can't teach. - Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. Maybe we learn it, maybe, I don't know. But, and it's not as if, and I've heard different people that say, oh, I see a red glow around this person, or a green glow, and like, it's definitely not that, but it's like an energy frequency, if it's like, oh, something's going on here, and I need, like, it's not obligation, we don't have obligations, but it's like, I want to-- - Get drawn to that. - I want to do something here, and then you pick up, and you're just like, okay.

Like, then you feel like the tension in their necks just released, and it's like, okay, we're okay now. They're themselves again. And it can just be, you know, a bad day at work. It can be something a bit more tougher. But if they're not ready, and sometimes it's just not the awareness of like, oh, nothing is wrong, like, it's okay. That's just what my life is. And, you know, I'm okay operating at a three out of 10 on the mental health scale. And you can't sort of shake and go, no, life's better when you're a seven, or hovering between a five and an eight.

Like, we're never gonna be 10 out of 10 all the time. But there are some tools and techniques that can help us sort of hover in the better part of our minds. But at the end of the day, sometimes it's comfortable being where we are, even if it is pretty bad. - Yeah, and I have this conversation a lot, and especially downstairs on the gym. Like, naturally, I'm actually very introverted as a person. Like, I don't, I like my own space. But being on the gym floor, you want to create an environment that people want

a high end, not necessarily a high, you don't have to yell at them, but an energy space where it's enjoyable, and it's kind of, it's loud enough, but I'll play country music, I'll have ebbs and flows. But for me, and I was talking about this too, with George today, actually around like, is there an area of you, personally, that you wish other people knew more about? So for me, like my background on that is like, I am very naturally caring, but I'm also very much introverted. So a lot of it I keep, to myself to an extent, and recently I've learnt to kind of accept the fact that, yeah, three and 10's a good day.

But also downstairs on the gym floor, you're gonna have days where I'm not gonna yell and scream. I'm just gonna chill out in my own little world. Is there some things for you and your work, your life that you find tools and tips that can kind of help you ebb and flow through that space? But also, is there something about you and the way that you do life, personal or business, that you wish people knew more about Brad? Kind of two questions there, I guess. - Yeah, I'll start with that. - I diverted myself there. - No, that's all right.

I ran a podcast through COVID as well, and I had some, I had Lockie on as a guest actually. And I know how tough it is to ask questions, and then you think of another one. - Yeah, I was just, I was like, I think I asked this question to George, and then actually I talked about that with Mitch. (laughing) But it happens, that's the art of conversation. Yeah, so I'll start with about me and then go back to the other question. - Yeah, tools and tips. - Yeah, I think it's more, I'm not so about me.

Like I think I don't, and I love a bit of poker here and there, but I don't really have a poker face. And trust me, Taylor and my mum and the people closest to me, the females in my life who are really pick up on it, go, you know when you're not happy with someone or some situation. So if I am vibrating at a high frequency and I'm up and about, that's me. And if I'm not, then that's okay too. And I think that from a other person's perspective, I sometimes try to think about that from you.

So if you're really quiet and you're playing your sad country music, and it doesn't mean that I've got to check on Mitch 'cause he's going through something really deep or whatever like it. And my song, my favorite two artists when I was growing up was James Blunt and Teddy Geiger. Teddy Geiger is now a girl. They're really good lyricists and I really, and it's like, they're really whiny, they're really soppy. And Taylor goes, I don't understand it 'cause you're this person and it's sort of, maybe it's a bit of yin and yang and it's okay. Like we're never a version of ourselves 100% of the time.

And yeah, so I don't think there's anything about me that I want people to know, but yeah, like it depends the relationship people have with you, but I'm just human, like just we all are and we don't, we have our bad days, good days and that's okay. Like it's, yeah, I don't know what, it's hard to tell what people think about me or you as a person, but if I'm a coach with the boys at Peninsula, like I know what, I look up to all my coaches, they've been, I've been very lucky to have probably

eight really good coaches in my life from a football point of view and you think that they know everything and they're nitpicking, they're going, oh, Brad missed that target or whatever. Like that's the, my voice and I'm sure those kids think that when they've had a bad training session going, oh, Brad's not gonna pick me this week against Marceline and just like we miss things, we make mistakes, like people in positions of power, like it's not, yeah, it's normal, it's fine. Like we're human and I suppose what I value is just honesty and good conversation,

but yeah, the tools and tips to get out of a bad situation or being three out of 10, I think is definitely just going back to your values and there's a reason you're in that situation and yeah, we like, it's almost like things happen for a reason and I'm not religious and maybe one day there'll be things happen in my life for me to change my mind, but I'm a big believer in the power of me and us and the people in our world and I think if we go back to our values, if there's

something's a bit misaligned, it's like, oh, that's right, I haven't been spending time, quality time with my partner or I've prioritised things like money or this or that, like things that aren't really the core of what I'm meant to be and that's when things start to go wrong, like is when we sort of go and drift away from our core values, so one of mine is growth, so if I'm not growing, I'm dying, I'm like a plant and if I feel like I've, that's probably why I've got 15 offerings is because I just feel like

I'm a bit stagnant, the people that I work with might still be loving it, but I'm a bit bored of it, so that's something I need to work on, of course, but yeah, so going back to our core values and understanding it and spending time reflecting on it, have it on the back of the toilet door and just be like, yeah, that's me, I haven't been hitting that, hence, so yeah, understanding them and probably having someone like yourself or a close mate or whoever, just to go, oh, have those conversations with someone you care about,

go see a counsellor every second Wednesday, see a professional just to check in with someone who's maybe not emotionally attached to you, that's really cool too. - How do you make kids more conscious of that? 'Cause it's tough. - You know the saying, can't put an old head, young shoulders. - Exactly and I don't know, it's only one of the, recently one of those things I've found to be able to be aware of my, not feeling, it's just kind of like where I am on that day that I'm actually processing about how I actually feel

and it's only something recently I've kind of tapped into, but for kids, I mean, we were a kid and we all kind of, blinkers on and eyes forward, but how do you kind of tap into that to I guess make kids more aware of how they feel? - Yeah, what doesn't work is saying, oh, you wouldn't understand this, you're just a kid or like that, walls up straight away. - Kids are smarter than they look. - Absolutely and they are, we don't give them enough credit or a lot of us don't and they're sponges, I think.

And what also doesn't work is going like, yeah, if you're a bit older or I think once again, you just need to, everyone's different. So there's some 13 year olds who have a better ability to adapt and change than some 33 year olds. So I don't think it's so much an age thing. It's just, yeah, I honestly don't have an answer to that. What do you think? - I don't think there is one because as you said, like there's so many different, of course with everything, there's so many different ways of doing things, but kids are so impressionable and we, as you said before, they're smarter than they look.

They know more than what you think they know and I don't know, it's a hard way to kind of tap into making them more aware if they're not open to it, which is also, I think one of the blocks is they potentially don't find it or think it's as valuable as it is because they haven't gone through the highs and lows necessarily yet. I'm talking about obviously younger kids here. So yeah, I think it's hard to kind of tap into when I think it comes back to, as you said, for values, but also being a part of something that's bigger than you as well.

Sporting clubs are a great example of that, but giving them a space to be themselves and to be vulnerable, which we talked about before, but also just giving them the chance to be a part of something that's not within their four walls, I guess. - Yeah, that's a good point. Adversity sort of only comes from having hard and tough times. So there's things that you can't connect and leverage off to go, oh, this is what I need to do 'cause this didn't work last time or I hated feeling like that for six months and this is what I need to do.

And you can tell a good story and you can make some good sort of metaphors and all that sort of stuff. But unless you've experienced it yourself, it's hard to really have the long-term driving force to actually make a real change unless you've sat in the crap. - Absolutely. - So yeah, kids, but then like we know, unfortunately, there's kids, 10, who've experienced life-- - Yeah, absolutely. - They've had more hardships. And so they can probably understand it, but then they're still very young and they haven't fully developed brain wise. So it's challenges. - Absolutely, 100%.

If you were very lucky enough to empower every parent in the world with something that you think would absolutely pay dividends from a potentially kids or a youth mental health or a development point of view, what would you love parents to be able to do? And this is a very big question. - It's a massive question, there's no one. - You don't have to say one, by the way. - Okay, put your phone down, spend quality time, sit around a dinner table, be present. Your words have consequences or celebrations, like it can go either way. Treat your kids like you'd treat your best mate.

Like I think having said that, it's a little bit different, but of course there's so many things like I know parents are perfect and I'm not, once again, not a counsellor, a psychologist, I don't know, but like if what I see, I've been lucky enough to work with thousands of kids at Holland, even holiday programs where we have, whatever, 500, 600 kids a term, you see the different types of parents come through, the babysitting service or my kids are the next Buddy Franklin or you just see the different types and different investment levels, like they're

dropping them off and they're just more concerned about I'm late for work or, and the kids feel that and it's like, oh, you don't care about me, you don't, so I think just be, make sure that your kids know how important they are to you because how you view them is how they'll view themselves. So if they don't think they're important when they're nine, they'll very rarely think they're important when they're 29, you show me your kid, you show you the adult and our number one up until about nine is our parents and then obviously

as we talked about earlier, it's the influence of our friends in our teenage years and, but our self-identity starts from how our parents treat us or our biggest, our guardians, whoever we spend the most time with who is an adult figure. So it'd just be literally treat your kids how you want them to be as adults and you want them to be confident, well-loved, well-respected because then they'll do that for themselves, which will therefore make sure they do that to people in their lives when they're older. - Excellent, love it, I'm gonna finish on that note.

- I feel like that, I feel like I made a difference then. - You did and I, for me, you talking about that and I know it's something you're highly passionate in, like you answering that question, like you locked into that and you went off in your own happy space. - Which is why you're so good at what you do, tangents. - Yeah, no, but that's the best part is, it's why I actually really enjoy sitting on this side of the chairs 'cause I just like get to watch the people just go to their happy place and for you, like that's something that one, you love doing and two, you're really, really good at it.

So to be able to sit there and just listen to you talk for that was exceptional. So appreciate that. - Thank you for the question, mate. I didn't know how passionate I was about that until you opened my eyes up to it. But yeah, I'll be looking for that again in April and we're having some hard conversations with some parents. - Yeah, that's hard, it's not my place. If it was my place, that's what I'd say. - Of course, I love it. What'd you enjoy about the last hour, hour 25-ish? - Just chewing the fat. - Yeah.

- I was Alice, you were the wonderland, rabbit hole. Yeah, I really loved just being asked questions that had a lot of thought behind it. I know you've done this with a fair few people now, but, and it might be not autopilot, but you might be like, these are questions that evoke good answers. But I just love that. I really had to think and not just, it's not your sort of elevator pitch, like, oh, this is this, and this is that. That's not what life is. You gotta think, you gotta be conscious of why you do what you do and who you are.

- It's definitely one of the reasons why I actually don't like to send people questions before. Because for a lot of the time, asking questions just flows on from conversation. Your job is to listen, pay attention and shut the hell up and let them talk about something they call that, 'cause that's why they're here. So I really, really enjoy asking thought-perverting questions. And to an extent, I like watching people squirm a little bit, 'cause it actually makes them think, rather than, hey, what's your philosophy? Or, hey, what do you love doing? Or something along those lines.

So it's nice of you to say that, 'cause it's something I'd definitely try and do with kind of this space, just a little bit different. - That's great. Keep doing it, and yeah, there's a, even if the guests that you get on are relatively well-known or not, like everyone's got a bit of a story that can connect with a lot of the people who do listen, so keep doing it. And yeah, I'll be definitely listening to some of your other guests now, and just sort of seeing where we can connect, 'cause at the end of the day, it's all about people and how we can feel more comfortable within our own minds, and that's really cool.

You're providing a really good thing, mate, so well done. - No, you were someone that was highly requested, and I know you're not gonna, you think I'm making that up, but I have genuinely had four or five people ask for me to talk to you, so that's why you got the message the other day and said, hey, I wanna chat to you. - There you go. - How's that make you feel? - I'll pay them 50 bucks each. - No, you've already paid them, what are you talking about? - That's interesting. - How do you go being someone who-- - How old were they?

- Around my age, they're 26 and above. A lot of my friends and people I associate with are older, so yeah, from me to you, basically. - Yeah, cool, there you go. - How does that make you feel, being someone that people wanna hear from? - Good, good, it's interesting. Like, yeah, I thought, I feel like I am who I am, but having said that, you're only who you are in the environment that you are, so you've created an environment where I've talked about things I haven't shared probably since I was doing some mental health

sessions with clubs, and you only speak to 30 to 80 people at once, in that setting, so this is something that I can really think about and look back on and be like, oh wow, this is your life sort of thing, in a way, and then grow from it, at no point. So yeah, having people sort of go, oh yeah, I wouldn't mind hearing from him, it's a bit weird. - It is a bit, hey. - Very weird. Anyway, that's cool though. - Who's someone in your world you'd love me to talk to? - To sit in this chair?

- Yeah, or this one. I always ask guests if they wanna pick their favourite side. - Oh, that's right. - To be fair, I think nearly everyone's actually picked that side, so I don't know what that is. - I reckon I saw your computer and the guest. - Yeah, I was editing a video. - Subliminal, subliminal, pew. - Yeah, when you got here, I was editing your video, so maybe that played a part. - Yeah, there you go. I reckon, oh, there's so many. I'd love my mates to be up here. Who's someone I don't really know that well?

- Who's someone you think keeps a bit to themselves that you reckon has some pretty good value to provide but just doesn't know how to do it? I can see your brain sticking over. - Oh, immediately I have to think of a fellow introvert, I'm not introverted, but you, Sam Fox. - Yeah. - For sure. - I'd love that, 'cause that'd be so interesting. And I don't know Foxy that well at all, to be fair. I mean, if I walk past him in the street, he wouldn't give me a look, and that's not a bad thing.

But from what I've heard, I think he is, yeah, definitely someone in that boat. - He's a very interesting human who has got the best heart. And, or yeah, I did a potty with him and Foxy back in mid 2020, just maybe for Lockie and Steve. - Yep. - And yeah, just like, people got an insight into him and Trent then, but yeah, Foxy's like, just so intelligent, so in line with his values, and someone who obviously succeeds. One, he's talented, but he's just a hard worker who does what he needs to do. So I reckon people will just be like, whoa, he's a really deep thinker for someone who, you know, might not seem like it.

- Yeah. - He's just a footballer, but he's much more than that. - I definitely got that feeling from when I started at Saints is he was obviously working in the community side, from what I remember, and you know, he was someone who's, again, he's very infectious and everything that's drawn toward him, and there's reason for that. I would presume everyone loves him. - Yep. - From the outside looking in again, that's what it feels like. - Yeah, he's been great at Tyab, he's great at Frankston, but yeah, he's really stepped into the leadership and

out of his comfort zone of being introverted, but he's got a lot of value, so yeah, some of these questions he'd just knock out of the park, mate, you'd love it. - I reckon he'd freeze it a little bit and then go, should I actually have to talk about this now? - Yeah, he's very good preserved and keeps to himself, but I think in an environment like this, you create really, really comfortable, and yes, there might be 500 or 100 or 500 people who listen, but at the end of the day, I don't know, don't know what your viewership's like, but if it helps someone or makes them reflect on themselves, how good's that?

And Sam would do that for that reason, I reckon. - Excellent, well, on that note, my friend, thank you very much for having a chat. Let's go eat some dinner, hey? - Can't wait. - Yeah, I'm so excited. - Are you cooking? - No, I've got my muscle chef meal downstairs 'cause I knew it was gonna go late. - Seb Quirk said he's got two minute noodles. - Yeah. (laughing) Love it, can't wait to get home and be asleep or something. Anyway, thank you, mate, appreciate it. We are outta here, another episode of Virtus Podcast. Have fun, listen to Lucy.

- Have a good day!