S3E47 · Ben Diccocio: Overcoming aggressive Eczema and Topical Steroid Withdrawal

- Welcome back to the Virtus Performance Podcast. You're gonna get real sick of hearing my voice over the next few weeks. Mitchell Rose spearheaded the first few episodes of season four. Tyler Frost really spearheading the back end of season four. Super special guest today. Phenomenal man with a phenomenal story. One that really hits close to home to me. Can't wait to dive into that one today. Benny DiCiccio. - You close with the name. I've heard some rippers and that's very close, so. - How do we actually pronounce? - It's like um, it's like C-H, so it's like choch.

Chocchio. - Chocchio. - But like, if you ask people from Northern Italy, it's a different pronunciation. Southern Italy, different pronunciation. And then Australian is probably-- - What's the Australian pronunciation? - I just say DiCiccio. - Do you get a lot of people saying DiCiccio? - Chocchio, Kikikio, Kyokio. Like, to be honest, I don't even know. I like, it's just so in different ways. But DiCiccio is close enough. - It's one of those ones that sort of gets lost in translation, like, your parents are just pronouncing it how they think it's pronounced and it goes back generations.

- Literally. And then, yeah, probably offending some people with the pronunciation, I'm sure, but-- - Oh, that's alright, they're probably dead anyway. (laughing) - It's very true, very true. - What's been happening in your world? What do you do? Where are you coaching out of? - So, I run my own business, BCD Fitness. Representing the logo, which is sick. So I work out of South Pacific in Hawthorne. So, I'm fitness managed there, so I'm in charge of PT department. And then obviously, slowly pushing the online business model with BCD Fitness. So, been PTing for, oh shit, where am I gonna call for it?

Started 2020, yeah, I got my first gig in March 2020. So just got, as we were talking before, obliterated with COVID the first few years. And yeah, sort of like last 12 months, I've seen a really big boom with business and clients and everything, just now that we can get a bit of consistency and stuff. So yeah, it's been a wild journey, wild journey. - BCD Fitness, what does that stand for? - Benjamin Charles DiCiccio, it's just my name. - Simple, so simple, mate. - Yeah, so easy. - Fitness manager at South Pacific, what does that look like?

- So, manage a PT team. Basically, it's my role to upskill 'em, teach 'em, get targets, KPIs and all that, and also just manage the gym floor, basically. Making sure, you know, equipment's up to date. Services, managing members on the gym floor. Group fitness timetable, so we offer like Pilates, yoga. You know, hit classes and all that sort of stuff, so yeah. - What's something you've learned since being in the managerial role? 'Cause like, I guess going into the injury, was that, injury, industry, was that something that you anticipated that you'd be doing? - No, not really.

I literally just sort of fell into it. - Yeah. - And look, at the start, I loved it. I was just like, yeah, this is sick. Like, you know, managing people, managing people, managing members and stuff like that, I was like, yeah, this is it. And just the more it's going on, I'm just like, nah, like I just wanna... Now that I've got my business sort of kicking up a little bit, it's just sort of a small shift where I'm like, nah, like I'm all in on, a bit more all in on working for myself and doing something for me, rather than working in a broader role.

So I've loved it and I still enjoy it. It still like breaks up a normal work week. But yeah, I think I'm more all in on my brand and stuff and moving forward with it. - Tell us a little bit more about that. You said you're starting to lean more into the online side of things. What does that look like and where do you anticipate and where do you hope that that grows to? - So basically it looks like, touching base with clients every week and doing video calls and check-ins and managing health habits, getting slowly into more blood work and gut health as I grow, you know, programming, all sort of your general online stuff.

So that's sort of where I'm sort of trying to lean to, but it's just trying to find that fine balance, I guess, of, you know, wanting to still do one-on-one coaching and keep the in-person stuff up, but also leverage that and be a bit more online so I can travel more freely and not cop massive hits to revenue. And yeah, just a bit more freedom and stuff. Like you said before, like I just, there's only so many 6 a.m. starts and APM finishes you can do before you sort of get pretty sick of it. But I am for sure, I've got to rip a client book.

So, you know, they're all good people. - Yeah, I think freedom of the time is definitely one of the reasons that a lot of people do, or a lot of coaches do, lean into that online space. Like as much as I absolutely love this place and love face-to-face coaching to death, as we said before, like there's only so many Monday 6 a.m. starts you can do before you start to want to have a Monday off every now and then, or you start to want to spell. Other than that freedom of time, probably more from a client's perspective, what value can they get from online coaching that they may not get from face-to-face?

- I think like they've got more freedom that they're not relying upon me to do sessions. They're not relying upon me to be free and be available. It can work for their schedules a lot better. And plus it just by limiting my one-on-one time, I can only service one, two people per hour. Where if I'm online, I can, you know, provide content for 30, 40 people and work on that for two, three hours. And it just services a lot more people. So it just allows me as a coach to help more people. And for the client, just means it's easy to get in contact with me because I'm more accessible for them.

And then it's not, you know, hey, your time's 6 a.m. Friday morning, mate. Like I can't fit you in Thursday. Like something pops up and you need to train earlier or anything. There's no, hey Ben, I've got to change session or I can't do this. It's just go and do it. Like there's no set times, which for people, freedom of time is huge. - It's literally a vessel in which you can service and help and change more lives of more people. It's more scalable. - Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like I've got like 30 to 35 sessions a week now.

It's like, I'm pretty full here. Like I could probably squeeze in five, 10 more. Whereas if I'm servicing people online, you know, you could have client books, 60, 70, 80 people. You could service and help the same and still get the wicked results, but you can just branch out and, you know, do more good for more people, which is sort of what I want to do. - What's something in your transition to online, what's something you've perhaps fucked up or had to learn along the way and then adjust in that transition? - A lot, a lot.

I think evolution is just everyone making mistakes and just learning from them. Like I think more, less on the online, which online was the part that found it out for me, but more as a coach was just setting like unrealistic expectations. Like I'm really big on now, like just working with what you've got and optimizing and squeezing the most out of that lemon. And then eventually modifying it slowly where we can make improvements. Whereas say if you're at point A and you're working with me, well, I need you right at the end here. You have to, you have to train four days.

You have to do this. You've got to fill your check-ins. And it was almost as if my clients were, felt guilty when they didn't do things. And it was a really negative relationship. Not with me personally, but it was almost guilt on their part for not. - A negative relationship with the health and fitness journey sort of thing. - Yeah, because they felt they couldn't live up to what I expected. So it was less, I've sort of learned less on me to set the expectations myself, but more to work collaboratively and go, okay, hey, where are you at currently?

Cool, let's get really good with, let's optimize your sleep from six hours to six and a half. Not you need eight hours every night. Go to bed early, don't watch Netflix. Like you got, I've got to understand these people are human. And you know, a lot of the people I was working with and still do are human and they've got other lives and they are doing other shit. So it's not blasting them for not doing what I think is correct. It's more working with them to slowly optimize it. So it's not a fucking massive change for them.

- Yeah, it's just going after that lowest hanging fruit that's gonna bring the biggest bang for buck. Like, you know, it's overwhelming to tell a single mother of three that's drinking half a glass of water a day, sleep in five hours and not eating to fix all those things at once. But it's overwhelming. It's not gonna happen. It's gonna create resistance and a negative relationship with the health and fitness journey. If you just go for the lowest hanging fruit, like, hey, you're drinking a glass of water a day. Can we hit a liter? Find a way to create that habit.

And then once she's nailed that, hey, let's up that to 1.5. Let's up that to two. If you boost that, everyone else is gonna boost as well. Her sleep quality will improve. Her stress will improve. Energy levels, everyone else is gonna give a little boost. Then once you've nailed that water, all right, let's try and fix your nutrition. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Let's try and fix your sleep rather than just saying, hey, your water intake's shit, your sleep's shit, your nutrition's shit, your shit. - Yeah, it's understanding that, yeah, like they're at where they're at for whatever reason.

That's where they are. Don't fucking blast them for it and don't set. You need, yeah, for one liter, you need to be drinking four liters. It's like, cool, who's in a rush here? Like, if we can slowly build up and get little wins, boost confidence, and then, hey, I can do this. Like, look, I completed water. For us, it might be so simple, but I've completed the water goal. Sweet, now I can finally feel good enough to hit sleep. Whereas if you go, right, and you improve sleep, water, nutrition, training, this, that, and they go home and they're like, fuck, like, there's so much to do, I can't do this.

Then it's the negative relationship. So I think as a coach, I've evolved and grown eventually, but online, figured it out straight away when it's like, I can't communicate to these people, it's negative, like, they don't wanna train, they don't wanna check in with me, everything's gotta change. So it was a complete overhaul of all my systems and just gone, nah, like, they're not at fault here because what's the common denominator for my failing clients? I'm involved, so I need to fix my shit first. And so I'm in a much better position now with just better

systems where I can go, cool, I'm ready to take on board anyone and work with them where they're at to grow them through little wins and not absolutely berating them for falling short. - That's awesome, yeah, really powerful learning. Tell us about little baby Benny, which is actually something I don't know too much about either. Where'd you grow up? What was life like growing up as Benny? - So, I'm originally from Country Vic, from Yowonga. So family was there and then sort of moved to Melbourne when I was five, six years old. So, yeah, always been super, super active as a young kid, still active now, hence why I'm in the PT industry.

But yeah, played footy, loved footy, and I was just, I've always found them when I speak to family and stuff and even people now, like just really, really driven. Just didn't know what I wanted to do, but just wanted to be better at everything. So when it came to playing footy, I took it really seriously. I loved it, you know, at school, but basically dedicated everything else to footy. And it was always just finding an advantage over people and an advantage over competition and bettering myself. So, yeah, like it was just an active kid training, loving footy, loving sport.

And then, yeah, out of school, straight into work. I had a couple of careers, was being an apprentice mechanic for a little while. Then I went into food, working with my old man. And then, yeah, I kind of like just fell into PT, I guess. I had a couple of family members and mates just go, "Oh, you know, do you want to give it a shot?" And yeah, finally I met Sandalis and stuff like that and just fell into doing a PT course. And again, I think it sort of worked really well in this field where it's like, okay, cool.

I can see myself always growing and never stopping. And that's just, keeps driving me every day. And yeah, I guess it's a quick spill, but that's sort of how we ended up here. - You say you fell into PT. Is it something you just thought you did a PT course, not expecting it to lead to this? Is that what you mean or? - No, well, certainly, yes, that's very true. I didn't think I'd be here. Where are my businesses at? Absolutely, but it was more like I was in the gym, I was training, I was playing footy, how do I get better at footy?

Cool, I'll get a trainer. And then people are like, you know, you're a really communicable person. You can talk, you're down to earth. Like, just give it a shot. And then signed up at Woodford to do the set three, four. And then as I was doing it, I was like, this is fucking sick. Like, I can actually better myself and then I can better everyone else around me. I was like, this is awesome. And yeah, just after the first, probably the first few sessions of the cert, I was like, I think I found it. Like, I think everyone talks about that moment where you're like, this is definitely what I wanna do.

I was just listening to Sandalis and we had another guy, Lee Forbes, who was amazing. And I was like, actually, I can see myself doing this forever. And like I said, I've floated around in a few careers and then it didn't really stick. Whereas this, I was like, no, I'm doing this. And yeah, that's what I meant by I fell into it. And then I've just been on a small journey ever since, mate, just going forward. - It's so cool. I swear a lot of people have sat in that seat there and like almost told an identical story that they got into it just to sort of better themselves.

And then when the penny dropped that they can better other people as well, they're like, fuck yeah. I'm in and I'm gonna do this for a career. - Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So yeah, it's a wild, wild ride, been crazy. - You said your time at Woodford's was pretty pivotal. When the penny did drop and you realised this is something that you're in and you're gonna make a career out of, like was there any significant or pivotal moments, teachings, whatever from Woody or Sandalis or anybody that really helps that penny drop and you wanna learn into it?

- I think working with Sandals helped me heaps in realising like the impact you can have on someone. 'Cause he had a profound impact on me. Just one of those people where just clicks, just everything clicks. And I'm like, oh, this is like, this guy, he's had a huge impact on me. Do I have the ability to do that? And that was it. There wasn't sort of like one class or one moment. It was just sort of gradual. And then I remember, so I was working with Alex for a little while and then he jetted off to I think Singapore.

And he's like, oh, can you just give me a video testimonial? And I just in the car old man was driving and I just typed out everything I thought and then I filmed it and I sent it to him. And I was like, holy shit, like this is like a month and I'm vastly different person. Imagine what I can do with someone in 12 months. Imagine what I can do. And it just barks that fire in me. And I was like, yeah, no, this is me. Like this is my calling. This is what I'm meant to do on my time on earth.

And this is what I'm gonna do. And I'm not gonna take, fuck, not gonna take it lightly. I'm gonna go. - So I actually didn't know you were working with Sandals prior to Singapore. Sandals by the way is Alex Sandalis, our mentor. What year was that that you started working with him? - 2019. So like, yeah, mid year 2019. - What'd you start working with him for back then? - So he was running the Cert 3-4 and then I, by competitive nature, I wanted to be the best student in the Cert 3-4. So I started just doing PTs with him before it started.

I just wanted to learn more. And to be honest, it was nothing about Alex. It was just, oh, you're my teacher. You seem the most credible. I'm just gonna go to you. 'Cause you're the guy I'm leaning on for the next six, 12 months. And yeah, honestly, it was just to get the competitive advantage to be better than all the other students. That's all. That's literally all it was, yeah. - It's a testament to like you're a product of your environment. And you know, the average of the five people you spend the most time around. - Yeah, it's huge.

- Other than Alex, were there any other people that you sort of gravitated yourself towards in order to feed off their energy and self-develop? - At the gym, like their environment was fucking elite. - Lots of awesome. - Yeah, like their environment was out of this world. So I'd say like just the members and you know, Woody was there, like Jay Alex was there, Jeremy Borzillo, like all those coaches were there all the time. So I knew if I put myself in the environment of elite athletes, successful people, but even just semi-pros, just fucking going all in.

It's like, if I can take five, 10% of everyone here, I'm gonna be in a really good space. So there wasn't sort of any one person. And arguably at that time, it wasn't even Alex. There was no sort of connection with him. It was more sort of like when Alex got back from Singapore that he took his coaching to the next level and I was a part of it. But yeah, I think product of your environment and I just knew Woodford breeds success. So I've got no hope. I'm not gonna go there and be weak. I'm gonna go there and be strong.

I'm not gonna go there and fail. I'm gonna go there and succeed. So I was just surrounding myself with people fucking way better than arguably I'll ever be and just leeching off them and hitching a ride with them to know how to be good. - If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. - Absolutely, never stop growing, never stop learning. Yeah, the smartest are the biggest. That's a problem. I need to go to a bigger room. - We're at 2019. What happened after Alex left for Singapore? Where'd your journey take you?

- So that's when obviously I got a different teacher. I had, shout out Lee Forbes, he was awesome. Had him take over for the next six, seven months. And then Alex came back and got qualified pretty quickly. And then I started working in a small studio on Brighton. So first gig was at Tri-Fusion Fitness. Lovely, lovely team there. Just doing group classes, couple of PTs a week and stuff. And then yeah, shit, my COVID hit. So yeah, like I said, first two years was just on and off, but out of Tri-Fusion was awesome. Really good environment, good coaches, good people.

Members were awesome. And I was just sort of working on and off through lockdowns with them, doing outdoor stuff, doing indoor stuff. Yeah, that was sort of the branch off after getting qualified. So I was, yeah, straight into work, all in on it. - You're at Tri-Fusion. So what were the sort of dominoes that fell to get you to where you're at now, South Pacific? - It was, there was a couple of things again, like I just sort of thought it was time for change where I was like, you know, well, could I expose myself from a small studio?

Could I expose myself to 2,000 members? And where would that lead me? So it's just about finding a bigger room. Not that I was necessarily the best or the biggest at Tri-Fusion, but it was just, okay, I think I'm doing well here with, you know, let's just say 100, 200 members, whatever the number was. I could 10 times that and see how I go with 2,000. And now I'm at that, right? And then it's taking the same mentality 'cause now I'm like, okay, cool, let's do online where I can branch out to 10,000. - Infinite, yeah.

- Yeah, so it was just, I would've gone to any gym. There was nothing about South Pacific in specifically, it was just more, okay, what's the next step? How do I expose my brand and my name to more people? And they were just hiring at the time and just went on board as a part-time PT. And they started there and I was like, oh, I could see this working. Like, I think I could do this, yeah. - Any big takeaways from being in the small studio? - Environment. You're around everyone there was super supportive, super happy, pushing ya, helping ya.

They took me on board as, fuck man, I was probably getting to it a bit later, but my lung had just collapsed, so I'd lost like maybe 10 kilos in a few weeks. So I walked in there super skinny kid, shy, anxious, and they took me on board. And then I agree when I left there, super confident. Wasn't necessarily the biggest or the smartest, but they just boosted me the whole time. So I just knew biggest takeaway from that was environment's key here because I got people boosting me. So they didn't parade me or knock me down when I fucked up or, you know, why aren't you big enough or why aren't you this?

It was, you got this mate, like, keep going, we're supporting ya. And I do, I took a lot of my management staff from them 'cause I take on board a lot of young PTs or young clients and that coaching style we're talking about before, it's not getting angry at them for not being there. It's pushing them and supporting them to help them grow. That was massive takeaway from them. - What advice do you have to people that may not be growing or they're stagnating to help them sort of audit their environment and really assess if they're in the right place and then?

- Like, there's so many answers here. And I think the big thing for me is always just looking at what I'm doing every single day. Is it not like writing down a list of shit that you've got to do repeatedly and just optimising those to start with. Don't, if you're not going to the gym, you don't have to start going four days a week, right? If you drive five minutes down the road, could you walk it, right? It's just what you do every day, how can you optimise that as the lowest hanging fruit? You sleep every day.

Okay, cool, can we optimise the quality or can we increase the quantity just a little bit? You have half a glass of water a day. Cool, can you have a glass before nine o'clock? Like, whatever you've got to do every single day and repeat, just optimise that to begin with. And then if that's optimised, then we can look at adding in things or taking out certain things. But I've always found like once people stagnate or even I've stagnated, it's the shit I do repeatedly that lets me down. And it's sort of a bit of reflection on, okay, what do I do every day?

How can I just be 1% better in five little areas to make a big change? - Yeah, love it. You touched on your health before. Do you want to give us a little rundown and history? Is there anything else before the lung? - No, oh, just, you know, obviously, without the video I shared the other day, lifelong sort of chronic eczema, but yeah, I've had three pneumothoraxes on the left lung, so. - It's a pneumothorax. - A pneumothorax. - Including myself. - Yeah, look, it's for really simple terms, you've got like a layer around your

lung and then you've got your lung and basically you have a hole in your lung, but your pleura or pleural it's called, there's no hole in that. So lung inflates, air leaks into the space and it sort of inflates and collapses with your lung and air leaks in and so it actually just crushes your lung and your lung just gets shriveled up and shriveled up the more you breathe. - How does that, like, was there a traumatic incident that caused that or like? - Spontaneous, I had three spontaneous ones. So first one was just warming up in the gym, just on the spin bike, just like real dizzy and stuff and passed out.

- Do you get like a pain in your chest or you just start feeling a bit losing? - It's sort of a bit dull, like, so basically I just had a random like chest pains on the left side, so everyone just panics and thinks like, it's your heart. So yeah, like it was just a really dull pain. The way I described it was it was like you had water pulling in my chest and it was sort of pulling you down. It was really weird, but yeah, it doesn't take much. Like they're spontaneous. So apparently like tall male teenagers and thin male teenagers, that's the demographic.

And I fitted that to a tee. Yeah, first one was just warming up on the bike, nothing crazy. Second one, it was embarrassing. I picked up a garden hose. I just literally leant down and grabbed it and I just felt this massive pop. I was like, what the hell was that? And yeah, sure enough, like knew the lung had gone. - Heavy lifting. - Yeah, the hose is tough job. And then yeah, the third one was actually with Sandalis. I was doing a sprint session and felt a massive bang in the back. So almost like someone's hit a tennis ball at your back or something, just whack.

- Playing stingers. - Yeah, and I just turned around, I was like fuck. And he's like, you all right? I'm like, yeah, I'm okay. And then I sat down, I was like, nah, this hurts. I'm like, fuck lung again. So yeah, just spontaneous. - So take us back, you're warming up on the bike, start feeling a bit dizzy. What happens then? Like do you call an ambulance or are you able to take yourself to hospital? - No, so yeah, I passed out and then I sort of came to obviously the staff called an ambulance and yeah, they didn't really know.

And I was like sort of really tired, in and out of consciousness kind of thing. And then got to hospital, just they do scans, whatever. And then I remember it was funny, like I remember just like in and out of waking up and being tired and just kind of traumatized by everything, I guess. Just waking up like, yeah, cool, you're going into surgery. I was like, oh, what? Yeah, like what for, what's going on? Yeah, it was just sort of explained like there's just basically air trapped in your lung. And so just had an operation where they just bit gnarly, but you just have your hand up and they just pop a thing in whilst you're awake.

- Whilst you're, oh fuck. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a thin tube. You just sort of feel it go through and you're like, oh, this is not comfortable at all. And then yeah, pops and reinflates. You're in hospital for 10 days or so and then back out. - Was there apprehension to returning to exercise? Was there fear in that? - Yeah, certainly, certainly. So after the first one, that's just sort of like, they expect after two weeks, just slow gradual buildup and you're okay. So the first one was in like March and then. - What year are we talking here, sorry?

- 2019, 2019, yep. And then the second one was in like September and it's like really rare to have two, so apparently. And then after the second one, they actually go through and they do a bit more of a surgery than an operation. I think it's the key terminology where it's kind of gnarly again, like they scrape the inside of your chest to scar it. And so, and then it sort of like singes together and heals to create a good layer. But yeah, certainly after the first one, they were like, just slowly build up. That's all I did, slowly built up.

And then after the second one, there was more, okay, you should be fine. Like there shouldn't be any issues. And then after the third one, to be honest, I was probably told by a couple of nurses, oh, you know, like, what do you do? Like PT and they're like, oh, okay, like you might wanna do something different or whatever. - Fuck that. - Yeah, and that was my mentality. I was like, ah, nah, fuck that, I'm doing this. Like, I just wanna, I don't wanna let that stop me. I'm gonna try it, if it goes again, it goes again.

That was just my mentality with it all, I guess, yeah. - With the second one happening, was it a case of building up too quickly or was it just bad luck? - It's hard to tell, like, because I did build up for, you know, four, five months. And it wasn't like I was doing marathon preps or I was in extreme pressure situations. I wasn't doing anything. I was just at the gym, right, just working out. And then, yeah, I was at my parents' place and just picked up a hose. So for whatever reason, that reach, that position I was in, maybe shitty weather, whatever it might be.

- Yeah, nice dress, whatever. - Yeah, and it just popped. There was nothing, nothing I can remember or can tell that, like, deliberately set it off, you know? - You talked about building up. What did that look like? What did the very first session back look like? And then, you know, maybe, yeah, a few weeks back and what did that session look like, if you could remember? - Yeah, it was, it was, just, I guess we harp on progressive overload as coaches. It was just start light, just move, just get movement in. - Yeah, a couple minutes of movement.

- Yeah, just get some movement in. Don't increase your heart rate too much, but just get it to an okay level. Get your breathing up, and then from there, it's just slowly build, slowly build. And that's all I did, yeah, that's all I did. So again, the spontaneous pneumothoraxes, it's not as if it was, you know, I got whacked really hard in the chest or it was, you know, I fell over or anything. It was spontaneous, it just happens, unfortunately. - How long has it been since the third? - Third one was January, 2020. - Okay, cool.

- Yeah, so I had three in like nine months. - We're going on though, three years. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Is it still in the back of your mind when you do any sort of strenuous exercise? - No, if I go, when I was playing footy, like those max, max efforts where you really, it's really challenging. It's kind of like breathing through a bit of a straw. Sometimes you do feel it. In terms of exercise, not really. I feel I'm a bit puffed out, but when I first started getting back into proper lifting, it was actually an excuse for me.

I was like, oh, I suck at cardio. Whereas now I'm like, no, fuck that, I'm not working on it. Like, let's work on it. Let's start with working on cardio. And then from there, I'll slowly build it up. Like, I'm not gonna let that stop me from, and I was like puffed out talking to people. - Yeah, I was gonna say, has it affected your capacity and does it still? - Yeah, so basically, from what I remember from the testing I did, it's like basically your lungs at about 80% capacity, or 80% function to work. Which, man, when you consider the amount of people that vaping, smoking, shit health, it's probably not that bad.

- You're probably winning. - Yeah, it's probably not that bad. It's probably, you know, I feel it because I used to be a good runner and stuff like that, and I'm not at that level, but it's not as if it's like, you know, I wake up and go, oh, fuck my chest. Like, it's, I'm normal. You wouldn't even tell. If I didn't have the scars or you didn't see Instagram or whatever, no one would know. They'd just think I'm unfit sometimes. But that's on me, that's on me to fix it. - Yeah. You touched on before topical steroid withdrawal.

Say that 10 times over. (laughing) What's that journey been? That's one that sort of hits close to home with me as well. You know, like some percentage of the population have had battles with eczema, and that's something, that's the reason that I started working with Alexander Sandalas. What's that journey looks like for you? - Oh, yeah, wild. - And posted a phenomenal video on socials, which I've sort of deliberately knowing I was gonna get you on here in a couple of weeks' time. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Haven't asked you too many questions about, so we can save it all for here.

- Yeah, there you go. Yeah, look, it's, yeah, wild. Just nothing could have prepared me. Nothing could have prepared me for it, but I'm always trying to find the silver linings. And I went through something horrific and it fucked me up a lot, but I was actually able to improve upon other areas in my life. Whilst being so fucking affected, I was able to actually get through some things and nail in on some fucking nutrition habits. So the smallest win, smallest win, but I'm big on that. Like through the worst part of my life, I was able to get a dub and I got that.

So it taught me, taught me a lot. And it's weird to say, 'cause it's not too long ago, but like you're sort of grateful for it in a way, because you learnt so much about your body, your health and the direction I wanna take myself now. It was horrendous and I don't want anyone to go through it, but it's sort of, for me, I feel it was necessary in order to go to that next level. That's the positive spin on it. And now that I'm out of that, I can take a bit more of a positive impact, but certainly, yeah, what I went through is for me just, yeah, pure hell.

Pretty indescribable, unfortunately, yeah. - For those that might not know, what is topical steroids withdrawal? - So basically any addiction, any drug you take or whatever, you go through withdrawals, right? Caffeine withdrawal is pretty common. If you get people to stop drinking caffeine, they get the migraines, they can't focus, brain fog, all that. So basically for, to treat eczema or the current, but it's sort of changing now through TSW, which is good, but the kind of more old school approach is just applying topical creams, which if you've been to eczema, you probably know yourself a little bit.

- Yeah, you look a bit much for me. - Yeah, so yeah, it's basically, it just blunts your skin, right, so it thins your skin, it blunts the blood vessels from working. And so you apply it to eczema and it goes away. You think it's working, but what it's really doing is harming your skin's ability to work and it's also just masking it. It's a bandaid. Now, I didn't know that and you wouldn't have known that and no one knows it. It's just, you got this, this will fix it. And that's all you do. You just take GPs and doctors, and I'm not going wrong.

I'm not going to shit on GPs or anyone. They've got a tough job and I'm not about that at all, but that's all you did. So with eczema, chronic eczema my whole life, I'd been using topical steroids for about five, so yeah, 18 years, 18 years, just constantly applying it because my eczema was bad and gave me relief, gave me relief and allowed me to be a kid, be a human and be normal. People look at that and go, oh yeah, it's just rash. It's just being a bit itchy. But if someone goes through eczema, you don't feel normal sometimes.

You feel so left out. So yeah, it's wild, fucking wild. - I know like personally, I've got the biggest spring in my step and I'm feeling best about myself and my skin is, you know, in full state. - Mate, it's unreal. Like I had a big turning moment, you know, February, March sometime. And I can't remember having a bad day since. Like I'm just fucking grateful. I'm happy, like, you know, I smile, I wake up. Everyone's like, you still look good. I'm like, fuck yeah, like I'm just on another level. So it's wild 'cause I didn't actually know that you suffered from eczema as well.

So the thing is I'm saying, you'd know, like you'd go, like there's days you wake up and you go, oh fuck, I can't wear a singlet today. - And you know it's looking shit. And then you see someone's like, oh, you're a bit sunburned. It's like, no, fuck off. And then just being kind and making conversation, God bless them. But fuck, there's only so many times a day you can hear that before. It's like, fuck God, is it that bad, is it? - Yeah, and that was what I touched on in my video. It's like, I'm okay.

And then you get all the questions and you're like, fuck, I don't think I'm okay. I think something's actually fucking really wrong. So yeah, it's a bit odd. - Said you got a few dubs, what were some of those? And what was some of the things that you did with your time in your time with Alex to tip the scales in your favor with the eczema journey? - So look- - What did the recovery process look like? - So just to preface, I still go through eczema now and I'm managing it a lot better. - And I guess, yeah, it's not something that you, bang, cured, gone forever.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm still going through eczema at the moment. I'm just managing it a bit more naturally, which is cool. But to get through topical sterile withdrawal, so they're very different. And yeah, so some of the wins would be just hanging onto the light at the end of the tunnel. And you've watched the video, so you know what I mean. Like knowing the good days are coming, accepting that it is a rainy day, accepting you're going through a fucking cyclone and this is shocking, but knowing that you're either gonna get the eye of the storm or you're gonna get out of the storm eventually.

And holding onto the fact that the processes that you're putting in place are working, you've just got to trust them. - It's not gonna be overnight. - No, it's not. And it seems like forever. It seems like forever. But knowing that there are good days and there is shit worth fighting for. That and probably just air fuck, just instilling some quality habits with my life. - What were some of those? - Just being able to, I was actually able to do so much work on my business, 'cause I couldn't train. So I had like five, six hours a week.

- Was that a stress thing that you exert yourself and it'd flare up? - It was the heat, mate. So my skin couldn't thermoregulate. So I'd just be like sitting here talking to you and I'd just fuck mate. It'd be cold in here and I'd put a coat on and then I'd be fucking out on. - Sweating boys. - And I'm like, I could wear a singlet. So my skin couldn't thermoregulate. So I'd like do it like, if I was just do like warm up with the IDL with a bar, I'd be sweating profusely. And then that'd set off my eczema.

So the TSW would set off the eczema and I look like a fucking red rocket and I'm fucked. So yeah, I couldn't train. I couldn't push myself to heat. And this was in the summertime as well. So like hot days were just fucking excruciating for me. So I chose not to train. Some people do. I don't think some, if people go through TSW through different levels of it, from what I've seen and read, I went through a pretty extreme version. And yeah, I couldn't train. So stand me times to, you know, focus on optimising business systems, focus on learning different skills and different shit, like YouTube courses and how to edit videos and all these little things.

So it's just given me time to work on other things that I may not have had time if I didn't go through it, whether it was the intended benefit, I don't know, but just allowed me to prioritise time on other things. - You gotta find a silver lining, man. - Yeah, absolutely. Well, I said, you gotta find that light. You gotta hold onto the light. And I was able to get positives in a massive negative and I'll hold onto that. - Tell us about the dark days and feel free to go in as much depth

or as little depth as you feel comfortable going in, but tell us about the dark days and the emotions with that and what got you through. - Yeah, I guess it's really hard to describe because like I've distanced myself from that person, like that person that went through all that is different from the person sitting in this chair today. Now, the dark days, I guess like it's hard, it's really hard because it's so unknown and it's very shunned out by a lot of people in the medical industry. It's not believed to be real. - Is that TSW?

- Yeah. - Yeah, okay. - And you don't feel like you can talk to anyone about it 'cause it's like, no one fucking knows. Again, it just looks like Rash or Sunburn, but I'm talking, fuck, when I was chatting with Kenneth, he saw my sleep tracker, it's like one hour a night for like days on end. It's two hours a night, days on end. And so I guess for people to sort of know why I was in such a dark place, it was like one to two hours of sleep a night. It was constant sweating or constant cold flushes.

It was being bright red. I had skin peeling off my face daily. So I'd scratch and like I'd just have blood, skin flakes falling everywhere. I'd have to wash my bed every day 'cause there's just blood everywhere. It was, I'd come from a really good space, like three, six months prior, I was on top of the world, love and life. And I just felt like everything had just been swept underneath me and I was just completely different person. And it wasn't a consequence. It wasn't as if I'd made a decision and I had to live with my actions.

I don't know why I'm so fucked up and no one knows why. And then it just leads into a really life sucked, poor me mentality. And I guess for me, it got to a stage where it was just the decision. The thought process was I can't actually function as a human and I can't withstand the pain that I'm in every single day. And I'm not gonna put up with this anymore. What's my choice? And it got to an unbearable point in my time where I justified that choice where, you know what, I just, I don't wanna be here anymore.

I don't wanna put up with this. I don't want to wake up in pain. I don't wanna go to sleep in pain. I wanna, I don't wanna run off for coffees a day 'cause I can't sleep. I don't wanna, you know, I can't have a hot shower. I can't have a cold shower because it fucking sets my skin off. This isn't, I'm not happy and I'm constantly inflamed. I'm vacuuming my house and my couches every day because there's fucking just skin everywhere. I can't maintain anything. And it was just, again, it was just exhaustion, a pure exhaustion.

I just thought in that time, I was just like, well, I refuse to live like this. What are my alternatives here? And I'd seen eczema specialists. I'd seen other doctors. I'd seen everyone. I was just like, fuck, no one knows what this is. It's not that one in 3 million person fucking disease I've got that's, we don't have a cure for it. We don't really know about it. And I was just like, yeah, I can't bear the pain I'm in every day. That was the decision. - There's no bigger kicking the dick with this stuff than when you're mind nailing everything.

Like I'm a fucking healthy human being. I eat so well, I train, I do everything right, I sleep. And there's cunts that fucking get on the piss, smoke darts, eat shit every single day, looking phenomenal. It's like, what the fuck? - Yeah, yeah. And in my mindset and how I go, that's their decision. That's cool. They'll live with the consequences. But at the time I'm like, why have I been dealt this car? It's like, why I'm doing everything right. - I give a shit about my health. - Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I do everything right. Why am I being punished?

It was again, I hope that provides people the context. I was being punished for not making any wrong decisions. And I was just like, fuck, I can't put up with this. Like I genuinely can't. I don't want to wake up. I don't want to see another day. I work in a gym with mirrors. I was so angry at looking at myself in the mirror and that was the way I was presenting myself at work. I was saddened by seeing that every day. And it's kind of odd. You sort of peel away versions of yourself when you scratch and you just see peeling everywhere.

You're like, I'm actually losing myself. I'm losing my identity. The part of the withdrawal phase you go through, like it's called elephant skin. We get really wrinkly skin. Now I've got a photo with my mom and I look like fucking really old. And I'm like, that's not me. And yeah, it was just extreme pain, fear and a bit of fear because what is it? Like why is this happening? And it wasn't until I sort of gone to support groups and community groups and stuff like that when I was like, oh, this ain't eczema. Like this literally isn't eczema.

This is something way fucking worse. And it goes, some people last three to five, 10 years with this shit. And I'm like, I've been on the highest potency steroid creams for a long time now. Am I gonna be like this for five years? And that contributed to the thought process and decision makings on not wanting to be here at all. Because I couldn't put up with it for three, six months. How the fuck am I gonna get through five years? Yeah, rough times mate, pretty rough times. - When I first met you a couple of months back at the face-to-face like mentorship intensive, you briefly touched on, you had some health stuff.

I had absolutely no idea it was related to your skin mate. Like you've done a phenomenal job at turning around, turning it around, you're looking good. When I first met you, wouldn't have had any clue that you suffered with skin conditions. What have you done? What were some of the, like you touched on before some of the habits that you changed? What are some other things that you did with Alex? And I know you worked with Ben Lee, a naturopath as well. What are some of the things you did to help turn that around? And

we know like, you're a specific case and what works for you is not gonna work for everyone listening that may be suffering, but what are some of the things that you did? 'Cause you're looking phenomenal, man. - Yeah, cheers bro, yeah. It's a wild turnaround, it really is. I see, oh, like I see photos and I'm like, yeah, fuck, that's me like three months ago. Like that's wild. Man, so I left no stone unturned. I did everything. Like anything that Alex or Ben told me to do, I did click of a button. So probiotics, prebiotics, red light therapy, UV therapy, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin E, fucking hemp seed oil, B12, everything.

So I did everything I could that was known to help support skin, I did. I couldn't live like that, that was my thing. I didn't care the cost, I didn't care anything, I was-- - I would do anything. - And that's the stage I was in. It was like, I can't live like this, I've got to. If I'm in a better mindset, I'm gonna do absolutely everything in my power to completely flip this. And that's what I did, man. So literally any supplement, fucking colostrum powder, it's like, fuck it, I'll try it. Like diet, I went full carnivore, like just meat, just red meat.

I was like, fuck, this is horrible. Like I've learned to love meat, but don't get me wrong. And that's all I, I still eat a mainly carnivore diet, but I just, when you're in that much pain, you ask anyone, they'll do anything to get out of it. And that was me. So I, that was a rather specific thing for me. So yeah, fuck, if anyone's listening, I'd highly recommend going to Ben and Alex, getting a specific plan. - Yeah, go see a specialist. - Yeah, yeah, like it's an interest of mine. I can give, you know, coping and coping mechanisms and tips and stuff.

But yeah, some people react really differently to stuff. But yeah, anything and everything I was doing, just to one stage, like due to the thermoregulation issues, when I was trying to sleep, being hot and cold, fucking wet towels in my bed, like it was fucking soaked. Just wet towels everywhere, but it kept me cold so that I could put a cover on and sleep. I was like, okay, I'll do that. And that's a win. Like fuck, putting face washes in the freezer and putting that on my neck just to cool me down. Like weird shit, but it just worked.

I did oxygen therapy. Like you sit in a fucking oxygen chamber and sitting there for like 90 minutes. Yeah, like just everything that would show like one study being positive, cool, I'll try. Yeah, just I'll give it a shot. And I think that mindset and mentality helped contribute to me getting through TSW really quickly and getting out of the hellhole and then having just to work on the eczema. - I know you've done a lot of things. When you do a lot of things at once, it's hard to pinpoint what one exactly was the biggest bang for buck.

But do you have a rough idea of what thing might've been the biggest bang for buck or just a combo of a big change in habits and mindset and with all these things that support skin? - Yeah, I think absolutely all the groundwork I laid absolutely would have contributed to feeling better. I think everything helps integratively and everything's gonna work together. The turning point for me was a moment in Feb when I woke up and I was like, oh, like my face is normal. My skin's not peeling. You saw the photos and videos of my skin fucking peeling.

And I'm like, oh, it's actually, there's no like skin flakes everywhere. And then I checked my bed and I was like, there's no blood in my bed, what's going on? And I'm not saying hemp seed oil is the fucking greatest thing on earth. But I literally just introduced some hemp seed oil through Ben telling me to do it. And within like two days, like my skin just stopped peeling like crazy. And I was like, fuck, was that it? Was that the one thing? If I'd have been told that six months ago, would I have gone through it?

And it probably wouldn't have been that. But for whatever reason, those few days, I was like, oh, okay, is that the reason? Like, is that it? And again, it's not the fucking golden supplement. It's not gonna fix everything. But for me, it just happened at that time when I've implemented one thing and it's just had a host of benefits. Again, I worked with Sandals for four months before that and he did a host of work. So I think it was a big contribution of everything. And then working with Ben Lee, who did some really hyper

specific stuff for TSW, that really just took me from 60, 70% better to really up to that 80, 90 and touchwood 100 sort of percent now where I'm feeling fucking pretty ace. - Yeah, and that's it, it's important to highlight that what works for you and what works for me may not work for other people and what works for other people may not work for me. Like I tried a pretty well carnivore diet and I actually regressed, I got worse. - Oh, yeah, right, there you go, there you go. - And what worked for me was like some aloe vera and tea tree oil, and I was the same, like maybe a week later, fucking no more flakes.

Like, hmm, hang on, is that from the tea tree and aloe or is that from the summation of all the other habits I've done the past few months and it's just starting to notice it now. - Yeah, yeah, there you go. - And luckily combo everything. - Yeah, and it's funny 'cause I reacted to aloe vera. So like now that you say that, that's crazy. So yeah, like again, everyone's so vastly different which is why like people ask me, oh, you know, how'd you get through it? And I've had people message me like, oh, I'm

actually going through it as well, I'm like, fuck, cool, like instead of me handing them with do this, do this, do this, it's like, cool, I found this worked really well, like you should maybe give that a try. But again, shit, you turn around to me and go, hey, Ben, you're going through TSW, aloe vera worked a treat and I go, sweet, I put aloe vera on and I'm fucking bright, right, and I'm going, fuck mate, this is not it, like you're killing me here. So yeah, everyone's so vastly different, it's wild. It's actually wild, yeah.

- What makes Ben Lee and Alex Sandala such good people to work with, I was gonna say specialist and not specialist, but yeah, just practitioners is the word I was after. - Just, oh, just level of care, mate, like, fuck. Alex, Alex went to levels I've never seen or didn't even expect to get me out. He did some amount of fucking work. And Ben just, just care, man, they just, they listen to you, they understand you, they empathise with you. Ben, don't stress, we'll fucking get you out. We're gonna do it. And that was Alex,

no, he didn't put in the Instagram video, put in the full video, I think, where he's like, I don't have the answers, but I'm gonna find people 10 times smarter than me to get the answers. It was almost as if I've come to Alex going, hey, mate, I don't wanna live and he's gone, I don't accept that. I'm gonna get you to a better place. You're coming with me. And it was almost as if like, okay, I can't fail him here. - He almost shelters the burden of what you're going through as well. - And man, like fucking credit to him, 'cause I came to him a mess and I was just like, outburst, here's everything, mate.

You've known me for years, you've known me as a bright, happy kid. I don't wanna be here anymore, fix it. That was, it was a final last ditch call. And to have him put me on his shoulders and go, don't worry, mate, we'll get through it. We'll find the right people. We'll do everything we know and you'll be good. And I remember him going like, you should share it. And I was like, I'm never sharing this. No one's gonna know this side of me. Ben just disappeared for a few months and then came back. Like, it's fine.

And then as I was going through, just the amount of mentality work he did with me, like every time I was breaking down, I would fucking be crying, I'd be losing hope. He'd just reinvigorate me with, we've got this, we're on the path, we're on the process, it's the journey. And then, yeah, I can't actually explain the amount of work Alex did, but it's fucking awe-inspiring because I wanna do that. - Inspire you to be a better coach. - Yeah, absolutely. - Is that something you wanna do? Work with people that have gone through asking conditions in TSW?

- Yeah, like, I wanna be better. I wanna grow and I wanna help people. But I wanna empathise as well. And I wanna be able to put myself in my clients' shoes. And the TSW community's not hurt. Not hurt, they're gas-lit. If I can just help one or two people through sharing my story, one, but two, providing them some support and some tailored care, I think you go through shit, but I think, yeah, that's my calling. - You've helped more than one or two people, mate. You've helped me as well that still goes through aggressions and things.

As you said, it's never quite 100% better. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - You still go through the rollercoaster. Have you pinpointed some things that perhaps do aggravate or flare up your ex-wife? - Yeah, I think knowing your allergens and stuff, like pretty much dust and grass and stuff, and pets and dogs, cats, and all that. So just removing myself as much as I can and as best as I can from those scenarios. Stress for me is a big one. I think it is for a lot of people, just trying to keep it chilled out environment. And for me, the big one's food.

Like I didn't know I had so many allergies with food. I guess you'd eat gluten or go out for, have some alcohol, and then Exmark cool, creams on, I'm all sweet. And you didn't link anything. Whereas now I'm doing like a full food reintroduction. It's like trying just like some small herbs and spices. Oh fuck, got a flare today. Cool, garlic and onion ain't it yet. Like might not ever be it, but it's not it yet. Okay, let's move forward. All right, and so I guess just everyone's different. As you said, your carnival diet actually didn't go to plan.

So 'cause everyone's different, it's just finding your own triggers and what sets you off. You know, for me, I get stressed out quickly. So if I don't have a pretty zen-ed out environment where I'm able to manage it, I know my skin's gonna flare. And just to be honest, also like working with someone who's gone through it. So, or gone through it or specialized in that area. You know, like mold, mold's a massive eczema flare that not many people know of. Air quality and pollution, not many people know about it, but if you got eczema, get a fucking air purifier.

Like that shit works. So yeah, it's not any sort of one thing that I could go do this or do that, but more everyone's gonna be really observant of what's the individual factors for them. - You said you found you had some allergens in like dust and grass, certain foods. Is that a matter of like blood testing or had we come to that conclusion? - Not. So I did like pre-testing. I did plenty of blood tests and stuff like that. But I guess when you go through TSW, your IGE levels are fucking through the roof. It's just showing you your immune system's super active.

So it reacts to a lot of things. So you don't get- - IGE for those that don't know, there's like a mark of inflammation, is it? - Yeah, yeah, from what I'm aware, yes, basically. And sort of level, basically you can sort of determine how active your immune system is, all right? And for reference, mine was 56 times more active than it should be. So it's pretty wild. But because it's so active, it'll react and flare to everything. So when you do food sensitivity tests or allergen tests when you're going through topical steroid withdrawal, everything's at like max.

So it's really inaccurate. So that's why I've found that just exposing myself to things a little bit by little bit, yeah, I'm not going around sniffing dust and if I can cover myself in grass. But just finding like, okay, I'll just try, for instance, I'm trying apples at the moment. Okay, just try one apple. Get the smallest fucking apple in the store and try that one. Didn't flare, cool, try more quantity. Okay, cool, two, three days, haven't flared. Okay, so I can handle that. That's it. And then you might flare. And accepting that's okay. And some people go, oh, I don't wanna flare, I don't wanna flare.

But I think it's actually necessary to grow to go, okay, I can't have these 10 things. That's okay, I can work around it, not gonna have these other things. But fuck, it's so individualized. Like it's such a nuanced topic. - And it's not as if like, I can't have these 10 things ever. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - If you do wanna treat yourself, except there may be some consequences or some regressions, whatever, accept it, breathe, enjoy it, savor every bite, and then we get back on the track. - Yeah. - Similar to the health and fitness journey.

- Yeah, that's what I just meant to say. Like clients come to you, oh, I fucked it. It's like, okay, did you enjoy it? Yeah, I did. That's it. So I don't care, we'll get back on track. Who cares? What can you do on Monday about having a few drinks Saturday? Fucking nothing. What can you do Monday to start your week better? You can do a lot of things. Let's just focus on that shit. And yeah, like I went out for a few drinks one night, flared like a motherfucker. Okay, can't drink. Went to Gold Coast on the weekend, had two drinks, not one flare.

- Yeah. - Okay, so I can have it. Okay, that's a small win. Yeah, I'm drinking straight vodka and it tastes like petrol, but it's a small win for me so I can handle it. And yeah, I think just accepting that, yeah, you might be a little bit different for a little while and that is okay. There's a lot of people going through it that don't want to admit it or don't want to show it or anything. It's fine, like you've got those support networks around, you've got good people around, you've got a good environment. No one gives a shit if you've got a bit of eczema on your face, like it's actually okay.

- Like that's something I found really powerful was like almost trying to find gratitude for it. And 'cause stress is a really big trigger for me. So I tried to be really grateful for the regressions that I get when I was under stress. I'm like, thank God I have this thing that can tell me when my body's had too much and it lets me go within and then remove myself from stress or remove myself from bad foods, alcohol, whatever that might be triggering it. Because some people don't have that and then they go 40 years and they've got fucking some disease, cardiovascular disease, whatever.

Whereas I've got this little signal that just lets me know like, hey, you need to fucking just chill out a little bit. - Yeah, I never even thought of that. I literally never even thought of that, that's wild. But so true, like you've got like a feedback loop. - Yes. - Hey mate, you're just overcooking it there, just bring it back a little bit for ya, okay. Again, I've never even thought of that, but that's the silver lining of having it, like having an expert, having TSW, a silver lining. Oh, okay, I now know I'm actually, probably can't handle gluten too well.

Whole life, Italian, pasta, pasta, pasta, fucking no stop. So now you're like, oh, okay, like maybe I can't have it. Maybe I can only have it in small doses. Like, you know, yeah, fine graduate. That's a fucking ripper one actually, jeez. Never even thought of it. - It's been huge for me, huge for me, man. - I've never even thought of that, that's wild, there you go. Yeah, fuck. - What's the future of BCD look like? BCD fitness and BCD the man. - There's no end point and there's no specific direction. The direction's forward, constantly improving, constantly getting better, that's just the person I am.

For me, I just wanna embody someone that I'm happy to be and don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with where I'm at now and you know, I guess when you go through what I went through, like happiness stays and you know, it's gonna take a lot to really fuck me up again, which is the gratitude moment when you go through some really shit stuff, like you're pretty resilient afterwards. I just wanna be an embodiment of my business. My business is health, right, it's health and fitness and so I wanna be the guy that can,

you know, be the big dog when he needs to be, go for a run when he needs to, like just do everything and do it really well. I think Alex sums up being a specialist generalist coach. I sorta wanna go in that direction but not specifically follow someone like Alex but go in that direction of, I can train you to be an athlete, I can train you to be a bodybuilder, I can train you to be a power lifter, I can train you just if you wanna train and feel healthy and feel good. And I

guess it sort of ties in together, I guess I want my brand to reflect me, not me to reflect my brand and what I mean by that is I don't want my business to shape who I am, I want the business to shape around, sorry, I think I fucked up. I don't wanna shape around my business, sorry, I want my business to shape around who I am. So I'm gonna be me and I'm gonna do whatever the fuck I wanna do and I'm gonna do it with a big smile and if that works for you, then you'll join in and if it doesn't work for you, then that's fine.

I'm chill, I'm sweet. So there's no specific goals, there's no specific direction. It's just know if you're coming with me in whatever journey that you're on and you wanna hitch a ride with me as well, just know we're moving forward. Might go really slow, might go really quick, might even take a couple steps back but at the end of working with me or end of being with me as a friend, as a fucking colleague with Trinity if we wanna call colleagues and stuff like that, if you're in my presence, we're going forwards and we're getting better.

However that looks, it's gonna be fucking so different for everyone. - That's epic, mate. Embodying your business and what your business stands for is something that really resonates with me. No one wants to work with a practitioner that doesn't practice what they preach and 100% embody their values. - Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, I can't ask anything of you if I don't do it myself. So like, if I'm telling you, you know, hey, to be healthy you need to do this, this and this and go, oh, okay. And then you see me stumbling out of a bar at Chapel Street three in the morning, spewing on the gutter.

It's like, is that the person I'm paying to work for? - Fucking hypocrite. - Yeah, is that the person I want? Or am I turning around going, hey, you can do X, Y, Z with your body. You can look this way. You can be this way. You can be happy with this. And then they see me with a health ailment with the expo and it's flared up and I've got a big smile on my face going, I don't give a fuck. Like tomorrow it'll be fine. And they're going, oh, so you can do that. And they're an embodiment?

Then that's me, man. I think at the moment that's where I'm going. That's what my direction is. Who knows? I might touch wood, go through fucking something else in six, 12 months time that shapes the next direction for me but pretty excited. I feel like I'm stepping into a new phase with life and with my business. And I'm like, I'm fucking G'd up. It's been a long time since I've been G'd up and I sort of felt TSW pulled me back but it wasn't pulling me back and dumping me. It was pulling me back as a slingshot 'cause I'm gonna go somewhere with this and I'm fucking keen to see where I go.

- I love it, mate. I love that. - Sick, I'm sick, man. - Sell yourself. Where can the people find you? Where can the people find BCD Fitness links? - Yeah, I'm pretty, look. Most of the active on Instagram, BCD Fitness, some asshole took the name. So there's actually an underscore under it as well. So BCD Fitness underscore. I've got a website that's up at the moment. It's not updated. It's getting worked on. So there'll be a website which is just bcdfitness.com. Maybe .au, I don't even know. But yeah, that's where you'll find me. And I'm just, fuck, sell myself.

I'm just a human. I'm just like you. There's nothing special about me. And there's nothing too crazy about the people I work with. We've all just got the common goal of getting better. So I don't need to just flip lives. If that's what you require and you want, I can flip it. But if you just wanna get 5% better and feel happier and be better about yourself every day, that's what I am, man. - The future's bright, man, 'cause we're fresh. How old are you? - 23, I don't have to remember that. (laughs) - You have so much ahead.

- Yeah. Yeah. Through fighting TSW and being pulled back, I'm now broadened the fucking horizon so much. - It's exciting. - Yeah, and again, I went through hell, but fuck, I'm keen to see where I'm going now. - Keen to see what heaven looks like. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck, I didn't think of that as well. Shit, I'm taking a lot away from this. Yeah, I don't know what it looks like, but I'm gonna go there. I'll be there soon. So yeah, I'm fucking excited, yeah. I'm G'd up. - Yeah, man, this has been an epic chat.

One of my absolute favorites that I've done. - Thanks, mate. - Have to get you back on when I'm back from Europe, man. We'll touch base later in the year. - The trip, the trip, fuck, that'll be sick for ya. - Been a pleasure, brother. - No, thank you, thank you.