S3E50 · Andrew Van De Beek

Alrighty beautiful people here we are back on the Virtus Performance podcast we have a new guest who's also an old guest he's been around the traps a little bit Andrew welcome hello thanks for having me the mayor of Mornington no thank you um am I the I was thinking about this before jumping on am I the least fit person that's been on this podcast uh absolutely not Mitch has been on no Mitch is pretty fit at the moment I mean he's double figures good on him yeah he's doing very very well um I mean fitness

is more of a state of mind than a I like the diplomatic man so that's okay now you got you got all right we just need you I'm fine we just need to get you back in here a little bit more often but you're certainly um one of the more injured humans I've ever met I uh I reckon if there's a trophy for like length of time between injuries shortest um that would be me oh no I'm just gonna go out go and have a couple of shots next thing you know you call me cooked

your uh Achilles a bit rough but how is it going by the way how is the the rehabs um into life yeah it's it's not too bad the the I actually stood in goals for uh some indoor soccer for the last five minutes of the game the other day and um within five seconds a goal was kicked on me literally walked in we were up we were up I think five zip yeah walk in clean sheet so far and bang top top right corner uh the guys say oh that was on us and I'm like

I reckon I just did a crap job probably just halve the responsibility for that yeah um but for for those who don't know Andy Andy's been on the podcast before back in late 2017 early 2018 somewhere around that somewhere around we talked about you keeping people out of jail we talked about you bringing what would what would be the word you use it's like authenticity authenticity authenticity into a space which is very for a long time just being very stereotypically structured not necessarily enjoyable um yeah very yeah accounting accounting yeah numbers and dings for those

for those on the podcast who don't know what I do I have a background in accounting and taxation I built an accounting firm that's now just over 20 people um and we keep people out of jail but uh our point of difference is probably more relationally how we work with our clients as opposed to um necessarily what we do because everyone does the same thing yes like it's kind of like at a gym they come here to to work out to some extent but how you work out with them is different it's how we how

we look after our clients is that's what makes it different yeah and one of the things that makes you so special and so loved within the community is just that your values led your values based everything that you do is a clear reason and almost like an evolutionary purpose behind it because you know how beneficial it can be when people are chasing the shit that I love to do totally yeah and I think a lot of that is is built off personal experience and stuff as well right so um having run a business myself and

then had a whole bunch of fringe involvements as well I've learned so much about what it means to do that and then you overlay that when you work with your clients and say well hey yeah we lodge tax returns and it's important it's valuable but really what are you trying to do with business and how is that going to impact your life and then how do we support you in that space to do it well yeah and it's been yeah and and obviously for those that want to dive back into that first initial conversation um

just scroll down a whole bunch forever just doom scroll I'm pretty sure the title is keeping people out of jail and it was around episode 20 or 30 of the first season so a little while ago how has that drive desire um mission grown evolved over the last five or six years oh big question I know yeah like I guess like if you look back then to now the scale of what it is that that we as a business that myself as an individual does is significantly more um uh you know we've back then we

would had a team of five or six now we've got a team of 20 odd um back then yeah well we were you know just renting a space uh in Matalyza now we've bought a factory in moreington fitted out with our space upstairs co-working podcast recording room event space whiskey bar so we've kind of like the scale of what we've done um back then I would you know share stories on podcasts like this which are great and amazing and like millions of listeners obviously um obviously now I've been lucky enough to like travel the world

and stand on stage and talk to people about what it means to run a business with purpose but in like I guess my profession and feel to encourage and aspire in that space so like this the the the message or the the the values haven't necessarily changed but the opportunity to share and then the scale that's that's come with has I've also got two more kids which I love a lot more whiskey yep um plenty of sneakers yeah yeah yeah if uh yeah if you if you want a little picture of a whiskey guy slash

sneakers guy this is it this is it this is do you put the the filming stuff out there so oh yeah I should have chosen what I was wearing I know right now you're looking fine you look good I'll do you look good um so how I guess one of the things that I've always been fascinated by is how have you embraced and and looked at the opportunity that you've been given to essentially be a spokesperson for your industry um to the you know the many accountants um and taxation specialists out there that are doing

what you know you're taught to do look at spreadsheets deal with numbers you know go from numbers into people how have you dealt with that responsibility and how has that grown over the last half a decade yeah it's a really interesting one um I can't recall if in our last conversation I won this award in 2018 things thought leader thing so thought leader of the year award um literally yesterday I found out that I'm finalist for that award again five years later which is um love that which is awesome um I think there's a like

anytime you start being recognized as a a thought leader a person of interest um a lot of opportunities coming your way but the a big challenge is how you manage that uh ego wise yeah for sure because I think in when you're in positions like that and it's not just the accounting industry that I get to impact and work with a lot it's like a lot of clients almost want to be a part of illuminate because they see what we do and they learn from that um it has a level of gravity that it sucks

because it's business at the end of the day like yes the thing that I do is the thing but the how I go about is that's business um but I think looking at that the really important thing is you have to approach it with a mindset of what is good for this community not what is good for me and I've been really bad at that sometimes I've been really good at that sometimes and the more I I look at opportunities or when people want to have conversations I think the first thing is like what value

are is the people that I'm communicating looking to get out of this what is it they need help with what is it they need to understand and then how can I go about providing that with the knowledge that I have in the way I've gone about it and often when I talk I like to kind of you know how are we the same person yes I might have beards tattoos drink whiskey and be a bit crazy but we're kind of just humans at the end of the day for sure what is the myth that you

believe in how do I debunk it now let's build it up together in a way that we feel like together we're agreeing on that thing as opposed to some angry dude is yelling you from stage saying you're all suck yes yeah and I guess part of that's just meeting people where they're at and totally being a being a friend on the journey with them to help them figure out what it is that they love to do and what it is that they value and how they can build a life and a career that helps people

makes the world a better place but then also fills them up at the same time and it's I think there's like the authenticity element of this is is about don't pretend that everything's perfect because it's not like there are there are so many times that I've I've heard people communicate ideas or share things and I'm like I know that you're hiding something you're hiding the fact that actually that's not necessarily truth in your world but it's it's an idea that you have and that I don't have a problem with people sharing ideas that are good

whether it's and if it's not a reality for them but I think what's more powerful is when they can share that this isn't a reality for me but this is something that I'm striving towards yes and so like for me for a while I shared a lot about stories of how I'd let my family down and how that was a big driving factor for me and my business and the way structure the way I do it because I want to be I want to be a good husband I want to be a good parent but

I need to make sure that I'm sharing these moments to become more relatable so people don't just go oh you've got all your shit together yeah you must be like I remember I'm allowed to swear on this right you can say what the fuck you want I can't remember if I if I said this story all the years ago but no one listened to it back then so I'll say it again but I remember I was on a panel once and we were talking about employees how do you how do you find them how do

you make them good and and it was literally like it was like four of us there it's like we went up and down and we just said the same generic answer oh you just got to care for them make sure you look after them and I'm like and we kind of got and it got to the end and I was like I'm just gonna call it out like like just because I'm sitting on this seat doesn't mean I'm any better than you who are sitting in the audience but to be honest you might be running

a better business than me just yesterday I had two of this was years ago not now but I had two team of my team two years ago verbally arguing with each other yelling at each other in the office yeah like and I'm now on stage talking about people like my business is fucked as all of our businesses are but the reality is that we're just bold enough to talk about that and through that boldness good shit happens right oh 100 like I don't like we've both been in business a long time now and you start

it's you look back and I guess it's it's probably part of that like bravado of being early in business you you feel the need to pretend everything's great and pretend everything's perfect but ultimately you know we're all kind of just holding it up you know with you know with with sticks sometimes but ultimately we're we're going through the shit and everyone's going through the shit and the thing that I've started to realize over the last few years is like we we had the covert stuff and then we had the rebuild stuff and now you're kind

of in that like valley of like oh fuck what's next it's always hard and it's always difficult and there's always a problem you get more competent at overcoming them and you get better at asking for help and you get better at at spreading the load and and essentially dealing with the shit that you're throwing it throwing up but those problems don't go away whether you've you know I'm sure you know we look at illuminate now and people would say fuck it's running smoothly it's going perfectly everything's going great and there'd be elements of that which

are completely true but there's also be elements of like there's so many things going on behind the scenes that people don't see like can you can you speak to that idea or a hundred percent a little bit like 100 like I like my opinion is like and and this is from every business that I've worked with and I've worked with thousands over the years we have a good 350 400 I'm guessing that number that we work with currently every business is like on a knife's edge it's like your goal is to try not to sharpen

the edge because the sharper it is the easier it is for it to fall off that so yeah but all you need is like two or three things to go wrong successfully and you might be in a lot of trouble so you're just hoping that only one thing at a time you recover yeah but then that's why often we have this state of overwhelm it's like it feels like things are constantly going wrong because you solve it and then something else happens yeah but that's life right you know like all of a sudden it rains

and there's a bit of flooding shit now I gotta deal with that yeah all of a sudden you know my kid's gotten sick all of a sudden this client wants to leave you know yeah that's life and it happens and the more we can understand that we get better at it yes yeah and we built we built our capacity to deal with that shit like yeah I think it's a really like I love relating business and life because the same thing like you you become more capable and things like that but you have moments where

you're like I have no idea what I'm doing I'm going backwards you know I'm not sleeping I'm not doing this whatever what is the you've worked with so many businesses what are the kind of key actions or key things that you would suggest people lean back into when it feels like there's just domino effect of things going wrong so I inadvertently got a piece of advice which wasn't really a piece of advice and I just kind of turned it into a phrase that goes like you're not defined by what you go through but how you

go through it so the difference is like there's always going to be stuff that you're dealing with some of that stuff for you might be significantly bigger than it could be for the person next to you who might be experiencing the same thing yeah that's okay like we need to go through the stuff the way that we go through and how we feel and how we experience it but the way we go through that is is important and that's where our value and our character stands up so you know someone's challenging you based off the

work you've done maybe they're saying I don't think it's worth it I don't want to pay your bill or I don't you know I don't think this gym environment's good I think it's toxic or whatever like you could be an absolute prick about it right well fuck you you piece of shit you don't know what I'm going about I'm fucking smarter you yeah you can get you can get fucked or you can utilize your values and your character and you can understand and appreciate it and and communicate in a way that makes sure that I

kind of liken it to like either my my 65 year old self would be proud of me or my mum would be proud of me that's good so and and as a result of that who I am defined for is by the way that I deal with stuff not necessarily what I've gone through so I could be a successful accountant or I could be a non-successful accountant it doesn't matter but what matters is how I manage that and the person I am in the midst of that yeah and I think a lot of our identity

this is where the authenticity comes back is a lot of our identity is often caught up to what we do at work and how successful we are yeah and that defines who we are as a person when I don't think it should because a lot of that stuff is often out of our control yeah well I've no doubt you've gone through that that process of identity being wrapped up in Illuminate and who you are and what you're doing and things how have you how's that process been for you in growing out of that and being

able to say you know Illuminate is what I do it's not who I am yeah I think for me it was relatively easy but at the same time I think externally it might not have looked that way particularly for I think the accounting industry who would look at Illuminate and see me and Illuminate as one or for people who are close enough to me who would look at Illuminate and see me as one but personally I feel like people who work around me might disagree on this and I'm more than comfortable with that my approach

has always been the Illuminate is the makeup of the people within it the the team that we have not the individual but there's always in a business an individual that drives it me being the founder who's been there for now 11 years obviously will have a lot more of my DNA and my approach than it would others because of the consistency of what that looks like yeah but it is about trying to be more aware of what other people's perspectives opinions and how you might go on things and we've definitely made decisions and done things

over the years that have been driven by others that have gone really well yeah some that haven't things that I've thought that go really well things that haven't but it is really allowing allowing that environment to be one where you can have those conversations the the challenge then is well do we just end up in in this big open too many you know cooks in the kitchen kind of environment and we don't have clear direction and clear leadership as a result so there's a real balance it's almost like they're fighting against each other of like

we need to be super inclusive yeah but we'll get nothing done like it's almost like just pendulum swinging it's like there needs to be time times where there would have been times where you like you're like we need to do this and this is why because I not not necessarily because I said so but essentially because I said so there's gonna be times where you're on the other side of what you're like all right we need to let the team the team drive this change or drive this this process adaption so that we can then

move forward and ideally you'd like to be smack bang in the middle where you know it's a collaborative moving forward environment but there's always going to be that little swing it's like um I'm learning a lot more about myself and the way my behavior is and and and a bit about neurodiversity and all these things that I've all people have always said about me but like understanding like oh I'd love to just be consistent and it's like Andrew I love the fact that you'd like to be that and it's an admirable thing but for you

given who you are and how you're made it's not gonna happen but also that's the beauty of it like if you can use that in a positive way you're gonna get to do cool shit and you'll have a great environment it'll be fun it'll be enjoyable yes but when it's done in a negative way it's manic it's it's opportunistic it's depressing it's inappropriate so it's about balance you know the pendulum swimming it's about ensuring that's as balanced as it possibly can be and that you've got that environment awareness so that you know when things are

getting negative things are getting manic you know that here's what I need to do to get us back on the right track or get you back on the right track totally totally and that's like we're lucky enough like we've built a really good leadership team um you know people that I you know I trust and I rely on um to the point where I mean right now I'm three months into four and a half months not working on yeah we've had a third kid I want to take some time to be around and whilst I'm

still fluttering around the edges I'm practically not there um and that's huge in terms of like the direction of a business your ability to grow your ability to maintain stuff the the burden that you have on your shoulders yeah well being so much of your DNA it's great for the team for your clients for the community for you to be able to step back and things still move forward and progress and maybe not happen exactly the way you you would do them which is probably the best part of part about it but that's where agreed

values come in really important right like what are our values do we agree that they are like do we have we got an agreed approach that we have for making decisions um you know what are the guiding principles of certain things of an experience here and then hopefully what that means is the collective group both the leadership and the entire team can kind of call stuff out in a respectful way when maybe something's not going according to those that kind of set environment that you want it to be right yeah yeah I I love the

idea like we think about it in sports teams like you're a steward of the the team or the organization or the business like you know you look at like I'm a Collingwood sport I love what's happening at Collingwood at the moment which we love um how good is Anzac Day by the way um as a bombers fan but you look at it and like in it might be five years 10 years 15 years the whole everything's changed new players new coaches new admin staff but the club is still the club Collingwood's been Collingwood for 150

years or something like that so like how like I think it's fascinating if we look in business as the same thing it's like we want our businesses to be infinite we want them to stand the test of time how can this business be something that we look at today and we reflect on where it's been and we appreciate both and and recognizing that it will be different that's not a bad thing exactly that is better that's the hard thing as a founder though yeah yeah and I'm not sure what you find about with Virtus as

well is that as you let go of stuff you see things happening which are good but they might not be the way that you would go about it and then how do you not interject because as soon as you start interjecting what that is saying to the person is you don't trust yes them or you don't believe in their approach and there's a good way and a bad way to go about sometimes you just got to kick back and go I just need to shut the fuck up yeah and let it happen yeah and let

it happen you know imperfectly because it certainly happened imperfectly when I was driving all the shifts for sure and I think that's it's like I like the idea of just surrendering to it and surrendering to it with with the level or a layer of trust and and love and acknowledgement that it's going to be okay um there's an Andy Warhol quote that I love it's um the idea isn't to live forever but create something that will yeah and like you know whether whether Virtus and Luminator here in 50 100 years time for me doesn't matter

but I want to act and we're playing the infinite game do things like that like it's going to be exactly the infinite game 100 um talk us through what your week looks like now relatively speaking to what it used to look like when we first did the podcast and I mean now is a little bit abnormal but yeah but I guess what you want your week to look like like going forward because the everything in your life for me like outside in and like obviously we know each other pretty well now like I we've had

a lot of chats around why it's happening and what's happening things like that but from a life by design perspective one of the things I respect about you the most is you are truly creating a life that's by your design so uh five years ago I was still heavily on the tools uh and on the tools in an accounting firm means I would be meeting with clients I would be doing accounting work I'd be lodging tax returns I'd be holding meetings to talk about business direction but also I'd to be doing the back end side

of the business stuff yeah I think I was even still potentially doing the bookkeeping of Illuminate at that time as well I let that go eventually um so I was kind of doing everything yeah um and at the scale where we were um some weeks that would be a normal-ish week other weeks it would be an absolute bedlam stupid level amount of hours week um if I wanted to take time off um which I hadn't we went on a trip to the to Europe for for six weeks after I think I think you know I

had to literally live in the office for four straight days to get to the point where I could not be there for six weeks as well as everything leading up so there was a lot more on my shoulders a lot more responsibility I was a lot more involved in it I still loved it and I still enjoyed it um but progressing to now now having three children oh that's so different it's so different but it's but also like I guess like if I speak specifically to like right now so right now I'm in the middle

of four and a half months off I've made the decision that when I return back to Illuminate that I'm only going to come back in a limited capacity um huge and I'm trying to not create a time frame time and investment on that because for me I want it to be about outcomes I want to ensure that what the business requires from me I'm delivering yeah so I'm kind of calling it it's the it's a founder growth role I understand this business quite intimately I know what it looks like I believe in it so much

that I can sell it to other people and thus I can draw people in into the world of Illuminate and then allow my team who then execute on the operation on the day-to-day side of stuff to do what they're brilliant at and I can get the fuck out of their way because as as a founder of a business when you've done everything side note yeah the worst thing you could say to a team member is mate look I've done everything yeah so just I I know what you're going through yeah yeah because it's it's uh

there's not a lot of utility to that statement it's it's a lot of self I've said it so many times and every time I say the facial reaction from the person you're saying to is Andrew you can get fucked right now but so so um so like I I so yes I when I return I'm going to in that limited capacity that's what I'm going to do um I'm looking at uh being more involved in the industry because I I'm passionate about the potential of the industry what we could do not saying it's bad now

but saying if we constantly look at our potential that means we can be that a little bit better here and there um and then I'm also really focusing on family and family is not just my my wife and my kids but it's also like my my mum and my dad so uh so yeah so right now my day-to-day looks like getting out of bed getting the kids fed making lunches driving them to school um on a Wednesday I pop into the office and I still spend about two to four hours just in conversations with the

leadership team in more of a like a support element you know what are you working on how you're approaching that decision this is what I might think and the team are like team are finding their way into having those conversations with me as well because it's about them being prepared for what they want to talk about as opposed to them sitting there and going what do you want to know Andrew yeah uh so we have that that element um and then outside of that it's it's things like this catching up with mates it's having conversations

and it's thinking probably more broadly about what my future looks like which to some extent is really difficult to do um because everything you've been about for the last 11 years have been this one thing and your family yes but it's realistically like I could whilst I love and appreciate my family I haven't focused on them like I have on my business um so it really is changing that focus um so when it when it hits July I'll be you know a day or two or three days a week with Illuminate depending on what we're

trying to deliver and my involvement at that point in time um I'll be doing it maybe a day or two a week of industry stuff and I'm going to take over my dad's plumbing shop which which is always when I tell people that they're like oh that's different but I don't know about like with parents and yourself or anyone else who might be listening as well like growing up I always said to dad and mum they're still together um uh I'm gonna buy you a house one day yeah because I think when I like when

I decided I was going to do accounting I was like I'm gonna make a fuck ton of little bitches I'm gonna buy you a house one day um and the reality is not gonna it's a little harder than a little harder than that unfortunately a little harder than that but the but the ideal solid yeah but yeah that's the thing the idea was always there and the intent was always that I want to be able to support you guys the way that you supported me when I was growing up yeah uh and so the way

I'm actually going to act that out is my dad wants to retire he's wanted to retire for ages he runs a retail plumbing store yeah we've been trying to sell and it's fallen over at the final hurdle three or four times for very valid reasons not that it's a bad it's a great bloody business yeah so I've just said you know what in this transition stage thinking about family I want you to spend the next 20 years of your life yeah doing what you want so I can enable that by taking over this business so

I'm sell taps and toilets I love that well so so it's taps and toilets talk dandy but what it also now means is I'm running an accounting firm running a plumbing business doing industry stuff oh yeah so also yeah we have this co-working space that we do we have events that happens there um you know there's a there's a lot that's happening so to some extent the way I operate and think having a lot is good yes um but the reasoning behind all this was to be a better husband and to be a better father

yeah so it allows you the freedom to rearrange those priorities I hope so what's needed yeah well I mean the uh the proof will be in the pudding but that's where you need good accountability around you right that's where you need mates who can who can be like hey like what's going on that's where you need to have a good relationship with your spouse and they can say you said you were going to be there and you're not um and having just a clear understanding of what winning actually looks like for you yeah and people

people have asked me like around this decision because not this isn't a decision isn't just like I'll just kick back own this accounting firm and like cruise around in yachts and shit yeah um part of my my decision making on this is if I'm not fully invested in this business of illuminate yeah I feel it's unreasonable for me to have decision making control over its future because I'm not I'm not as invested into it as much as I'd like to be and that's a two-fold thing because if I have decision making control I'll be too

invested and I won't be able to release myself yeah so um the idea is that the team will continue to take further ownership or they already have elements of equity ownership they'll take on some more and then I'll move into a minority ownership and I'll deliver it is what I want to do and people have asked oh that's why wouldn't you just take I'm like well there's reasons why they're like oh is that that's going to cost you I'm like yeah picture like piling up a shit ton of money in the bonfire and then lighting

it on fire and they're like oh that must hurt I'm like yeah but but I don't need it yeah it's and it's not the thing that lights you up or it's not the thing that right you want to life is comfortable like I we're we're lucky that I've been able to I guess professionally with a career do what I've done to date and I don't have holiday homes and you know multiple cars and all that kind of stuff I've got a lot of whiskey um but but we have a very comfortable and blessed life so

I don't need the stuff that's burning in the corner what I need what I don't want to be putting there to burn is my wife and my kids yeah and wanting it for the sake of it you know can't believe we're talking about burning children it comes at a cost yeah maybe we'll uh we'll just move along um you mentioned before that you've had the comment from a few people of like oh that's amazing that's great like but I could never do that what's the process been like because obviously it's not like just a one

day thing where you're like you know what when when the next one comes we're having four months off like it's been a process and it's been something that you've been working towards for a decent period of time like you've been talking about it for a few years is the potential like well the goal was always with illuminate was make myself redundant and I think any business that's out there um your goal should be to make yourself redundant in your business that doesn't mean you can't work in it no but you should build a business that

that doesn't heavily rely on you which means you get to work on the shit that matters absolutely means you can take time off it means if you go to sell it it's worth something um all of those kind of things you might still work in it seven days a week because you love it and live and breathe and that's fine but so that's always been my intention to get to the point um I remember when I've talked about it with other people in my industry a lot of people are like oh that's that's good for

you but it could it could never happen to me and I'm like I don't think you realize the situation I'm in like I've gone and bought a factory I have a shit ton of debt yeah the interest rate is tripled over the last two years on that debt I have a house that has debt that the interest rate is tripled over the last couple of years on that I've just had a third kid yeah um my my wife um you know cares for our family and thus financially isn't contributing towards our ability to like there

is a lot of pressure on me the liabilities aren't getting smaller no man and that's because of my decision making process like that looks like a fucking cool thing let's go and do it so so it's not like it's not like I've just cleared all my debt it's like I don't need to work let's go on but I think what it is for me is like there's the importance of the decision of the future so when we found out we were having Jericho who's our son now um we we had not planned to have a

third child there's a fun story um I can share if you want me to but I don't need to you want me to share the snippy stamp if you want if you'd like to so um for those who are contemplating not having any more children I would encourage them if that is something they definitely want to not happen to um deal with that quick uh I went to go and get the snips through the little laser walking walkout thing and after 15 minutes of fondling where I thought maybe this guy's going to pay me for

the experience um I got told that I was not suitable for laser because of the way I'm made up down there and I had to go and to get general anesthetic which was tough enough because I built my myself up for that moment yeah to get it done yeah it was during kind of in and out lockdown pandemicy things so it took six months to see the surgeon paid him 200 bucks for him to pull out his phone and check his diary to see when he could actually do the operation and then that was three

months later and we planned to do it the day we got back from Fiji yeah a week before Fiji comes wife's pregnant it's uh I don't know life hey like it's it's a it's a fascinating just look at just sliding doors moments decision making like how the like things that go on in the universe change change the whole future for you guys as a family it accelerated my focus like the funny part of the story was then our Fiji trip got delayed by two days I didn't get the stamp then I was going to get

it in Feb but our son was born early so I didn't get it then then I was going to in April the day of operation got cancelled didn't go then and I luckily had it three weeks ago now how you feeling um better now um it's not not the most fun couple weeks is it oh yeah it uh it uh yeah it wasn't I had my moments not better now but but so so going back to that I've we've just found out we're having a kid and and processing that the very next day was my

team's five-year vision retreat yeah and so as the lead the leadership of the team we were sitting there for two days to talk about the future of the business what does the next five years look like and the first session on the first day was what is your five-year vision for your life yeah and I'm sitting there going what the fuck we're having another kid life life changes like that and for my wife and I we were immediately like we're having this kid like there wasn't a question about whether we would or wouldn't it was

like we're in I think Ivana was a little bit nervous for how I was going to respond but I was like fuck yeah this is if we're going to have a third kid this is the best way because my arm wasn't twisted yeah which is the surprise yeah but after then probably we went to Fiji and then coming back and whatnot I started reflecting on what the next 10 years of my life life would look like and what does my my family need so what does my wife need what are my kids need I've got

a nine and a six year old daughters and now I've got a newborn son yeah what do they need and then I look at Illuminate and I say what does this business need from me yeah and then I look at that and I say am I capable of delivering both of them at the same time not a fucking chance and and maybe there are people out there that can um because they're superheroes but the the environment of Illuminate and what my family needs for it there's no way I could do that I think it's an

incredibly honest way to just build that self-awareness of like what does this thing need right now like what and then there's what we need as well like right right now it's an it's a newborn son and like he eats he shits he sleeps like it's it is what it is but like in a year's time when he's walking in a few years time he's at school like and then you've got the the elder children who are like going through education proper teenagers yeah they need support and guidance it's like man like if I leave that

all to my partner how fucking selfish of that is me yeah so so yeah so I looked at that and I went you know what I don't think it's possible for me to do both and so then I had to think about well how do I approach this what do I do do I just do I sell the business do I change some things do I just step out and I kind of made the call like first and foremost it was family first I have to be there for them and then it was like how

do I how do I step this through and then I I communicated that with the leadership team I think a month or so after because they didn't know we were having the kid we then did a broad team thing and right at the end I'm like oh shit I forgot to say something Ivana's pregnant and everyone was like what they thought they they were a bit shocked and then after that I just there's a different reaction like for your first when you kind of totally you're trying it's like oh that's amazing but then like I

guess the gravity of the the the impact of that change totally would have hit the team straight away and they were great about it like they were stoked but it definitely was a bit of a whole like holy shit what you're having a third kid that's crazy we didn't expect that yes you didn't didn't you not want a third kid and I and I like I don't want Jericho to ever feel like he wasn't what he absolutely was wanted and we were but it was like we didn't plan on having a third kid so it

was a surprise yeah but it is it's like what is what is your stake in the ground what have you said yes to yes and as a result you should be empowered to say no to something else and for me the no was what this business requires from me over the next 10 years in the role that I currently play you know as the general manager the ceo the chairman of the board whatever the fuck you want to say like what that business needed from me I I wasn't going to be able to deliver it

but also in reflection I don't think I'm best suited for it anyway like I the the founder like and I remember so zero much larger business than mine and yours combined we could kind of multiply our businesses by 100 and it wouldn't be close yeah accounting software business really really cool stuff I remember I've been on the journey for ages with them I remember in one of the early days one of their I think was maybe their first managing director in Australia Chris Reid it was his name I remember he he finished up now I

don't know that the backstory whether he chose to whether they kind of suggested he did or whatever it was but I remember him sharing something around his decision that this is the right thing and he talked about the founder mentality and the growth mentality and where his skill set is best delivered yeah and that's kind of stuck with me for a bit of like you say I'm really good with this growth stuff but once we start having to mature and do these things yeah I'm not the best person for that and I look at myself

saying I'm really good at growing community building a brand creating culture yeah doing stuff that might abnormally look crazy but experientially awesome which is different different whole different world to 11 years on but when we need structure and process and when we've got you know 21 people's well-being reliant on you you have to have more consistency and you have to be more focused and thus we have people on the team that have the ability to do that so I've looked at that and I said I'm not just not sure I'm capable of delivering what this

needs and and if I pretend like I am I'm probably going to hurt people more than I'm going to help yes right and you're not living true to that authentic self of who you want to be at work and how you want to show up and how you want to contribute to your team and community and and totally and business yeah yeah what is what is the I guess thought process for you around like managing those competing commitments now because there's going to be times where the plumbing business needs you and you know the team

at illuminator you know not sure about something when you know something's going on at the rumble like what's your do you have a thought process around like how am I going to deal with that and ensure that I give number one priority family all of me or enough of me I think what you find is that when you do things it's still kind of all done as one like it's whilst it's individual things yeah you find that your values and the way you approach everything kind of blends into one so good example is like at

illuminator we look after a number of specific industries that we kind of target so creative so marketing those kind of people we look after e-commerce trades yeah so if I stop at the number three one that we look after trades I'm going to run a plumbing shop we work after trades one of my jobs is growth and opportunity and community yeah so awesome here's an opportunity for me to be able to live the illuminate vibe out through the business and conversely allow ensure the plumbing business can then reciprocate that so I look at that as

how can I have them connected well yes I then look at from an industry perspective and I say I'm you know how can I be involved as you know whether it's as a brand ambassador with tech companies or whether it's you know speaking on stage and encouraging others well I know that if I deliver that well and I do it well people will look at illuminate and be like look at me where is he from he's from illuminate I want to work there so now we've got opportunities for new team members to join you know

new businesses who might want to be a part of so it is all interconnected yeah but to your question there always will be a point where it's like oh someone's called in sick at the plumbing shop we need you in yeah you've got this meeting at illuminate the kids have got a dentist point we need to take them to yeah and um you've got to be on the zoom call at three o'clock with the UK yeah or not three could be like 10 o'clock at night but how do I I don't know man I honestly

I've always had this kind of approach to life is like I know everything will work out fine yeah it will be okay but you often overthink and overstress it in the moment so it's always just getting to the point where like it'll be fine I'm gonna have to let some people down yeah I I should be pretty good at communicating why that might be for sure and if you and if you've chosen the right people to work with they'll understand if they don't understand it you shouldn't have been working with them anyway you shouldn't have

been in that situation because it's not a good place to be so I like that uh but it'll be family first always it's good and it's good to be able to come back to that North Star as a this is the decision making um ace ace ace and uh here's a ladder that's the thing like that's that's at the top of the ladder that's the thing I have to be now uh I also have to be mindful that I have an exceptionally amazing wife who allows me to do dumb stuff like last year I went

to the UK for 35 days which we love to speak at conferences and stuff and the day I got back is probably when we fell pregnant um yeah but but she lets me do stuff like that which which means to some which is awesome but also I'm like babe you're enabling me a little bit yeah but there's like there's support networks that we all need to be able to do the shit we love right like like she recognizes I need to be filled up to a point so I can be a good dad and if

I'm not getting those things that I'm not going to be the good the best person I can be around our family because I'm going to be longing for it missing for it or I haven't it's like you need to take the dog out for a run you know yeah if it doesn't it's going to chew on the couch or it's going to ruin a pair of shoes or something yeah that's really that's a really good analogy because yeah we've all I think that you've built that self-awareness and you and Ivana have built that connection so

that she's able to see that in you and you don't don't see it like you know Eddie needs x or y and in able to give you the space and time and freedom to do that which is perfect it's exactly what we want and the thing that I'm trying to learn and understand is like what is that for her as well because it's all well and good for me to get what I need yeah but if I'm not looking and saying but what is it that you need yes and and more quite often with with

with her and often this happens with um and I'm speaking just about my family experience but I've heard it from other family experiences when you have say the spouse often the female spouse who is caring for the family they need you to wash their dishes yes they need you to let them sleep in the morning and you get the kids out of bed they need you to read the story they need you to do the homework it's just like if you can chip in and be a part of the stuff that I'm doing yeah whilst

I know that in the in like the relationship kind of jobs they kind of look after that thing that's that's what fills them up yeah whereas for me I need to go and do dumb shit I need to like I need to like I need to go travel to the like I'm off to the UK in a month I need to go to the UK I need to speak on stage I need to get out of me all these ideas and these thoughts and this kind of madness and I need to be able to feel

like I'm helping people in my industry that need that help this comes back to the awareness point like all right what is to illuminate anyone right now what do you need right now what do my family need right now being able to answer that honestly you know with with authenticity two questions finish off cool first one what are you most proud of um I think I like it's a very recent thing but I think I'm just most proud of the just the ability to make the decision that I've done that's huge um which it's huge

like for me it felt like a no-brainer but I think as I reflect on it with other people and they kind of share their a bit of a hold of what do you what are you doing I think the gravity of that is is there so I'm proud of that I'm proud of what I've been able to do so far I'm proud of the dinners I've cooked and the nappies I've changed and that stuff um and yeah I'm proud and I'm also proud I guess the environment like we talk a lot about our kids yeah

we haven't really spoken about it much today and how they're absolutely amazing right up until they're not yeah I'm proud that I haven't damaged any of them whilst I've had it this time off like yeah yeah that's good that's a good place to start it's been good awesome what are you most excited for I think in my mind there's a lifespan of the activities I'm about to enter into so this plumbing shop's not a 20-year thing it's a three to five year thing illuminate depending on what what it needs from me I think it's got

a lifespan on that of a three to five year yeah so I think what I'm most exciting for is is seeing that come to fruition um with illuminate I always talked about this is not my business it's others I'm just a caretaker for now so I look at that from an excited element of of actually being able to have delivered the thing that I said I would and then parlaying that in family like actually doing the thing that I said that I would yeah a lot of the times I talk about a lot of ideas

as all of us oh it'll be great I'm gonna I really want to go do this or I'm I would never say this but like I want to go climb that mountain one day that's my bucket list I really want to do it but it just becomes a pipe dream that we never actually do anything for and I think you know my excitement is fulfilling some of these things that I've set out to do and I can see it happening yes um it's not easy uh but it is worth it and I know that collectively

my family myself and the people around me will be better off because of it yeah I think following that last 60 seconds worth of worth of little nugget of advice like regardless of what you're doing is you're gonna be able to be able to create a life that makes your world a better place and the world a better place so good from you 100% mate love your work love your pleasure as always yeah get around him he's doing good things get around us have a good day okay