S1E97 · Hazel and Murphy Keck (And their parents)

Hey legends, welcome back to the Virtus Performance podcast. Now today we had the wonderful Sam and Eliza Keck supported by Murphy and Hazel Keck, they're two eight month old twins. Now for the regular listeners of the podcast you'd be aware that we've done two episodes so far, one was episode number 72 where six months out from the twins being born, myself and the great man Tommy T interviewed Sam and Eliza and discussed their expectations, what they were excited for, what they were worried about, basically what they thought it would be like being parents. And then

just before the twins were born, episode number 88, I sat down with the expectant parents and discussed how those expectations had changed and with the impending arrival of the twins what they were most excited for and all those kind of things. So today, about eight and a half months on from that last episode we sat down with the twins in hand and discussed what it's been like, what they're excited for for the next 8-12 months and a little bit of advice for future parents like myself. So without further ado, please enjoy. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day.

I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus Podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. Team, welcome. All four of you. Hey. It's been how long since these two peanuts were brought into the world? Eight months. Eight months. Wow. So it's been eight months since we did, I'll talk a little bit more about the context in the intro, but it's been eight months since we, a little over eight months since we did our last one and probably 12 months since we did the first one where we chatted about what your expectations were, what the plan was, what you're excited for.

Yeah, I should have listened to it before this so that I could remember. Yeah. It'll be cool to be able to compare them. Yeah. Yeah. That's almost the point, wasn't it? Yeah. The journey from ignorance to whatever the mess is that we're currently in. Fill me in on that mess. What's it like having two beautiful babies? Boobers. Eliza? It's good. Yeah. No, it's less different than I expected. Yep. So it's more exactly what I thought it would be like. Okay. I was a bit surprised and that's, yeah, I don't know, but it's lovely. What's been the biggest surprise?

That's a really good question. How much you can do without sleep. Yeah. That's a massive experiment. Like, you know, they do have to torture people. Don't they? Yeah. Just wake you up every half hour for two hours and then that you have another half hour sleep. That was like the first, you know, eight, 12 weeks. Just to give you a taste of what's going on. And then it was just like, like I got to a point where I wouldn't go to sleep because I knew I'd end up just having to wake up again and that's almost worse and then that's fine when you're running on adrenaline for a bit, but after a while you just become, then you know.

Yeah. It's a really weird feeling. I remember I talked to, I think it was Wade. Shout out. Where's the bell? I think it was him. Apologies if it wasn't. But he said it was recently and I was talking to him and he's like, have you figured it out yet? And I'm like, what? And he goes, oh, but, um, that people say, oh, you know, like you'll get tired, but then, you know, then you'll, then you'll eventually, it'll be okay. And he's like, it's not okay because you get less time. He's like, you just get used to being tired all the time.

So it becomes normal. And he's like, that's what I don't tell you. They can't get allude to it. Yeah. You'll be really tired. Murphy's going to contribute, I think. Hazel's going to contribute as well. Yeah. And this is good for you Ollie, because you're about to embark on your own little journey. Yeah. When we did the last two, I didn't know what was happening. Yeah. He did it. But it must've been close to, uh, yeah, yeah, well, it would have been about the time. So maybe something, we can work it out, but maybe something subconsciously made me want to conceive after having, having this last chat with YouTube.

You're welcome. Sorry. Sorry. But yeah, it's, it's, um, it's been really cool from my perspective to have been able to have those conversations with you too, that everyone can jump back and listen to. If you haven't already, episode number 72 was the first one and episode number 88 was the second. Um, to be able to have those two conversations with you guys and then now be able to see you become parents and seemingly clock it, it looks like it looks like you're nailing it from the outside. What's it like, I guess having two, you guys don't know any different, but how's that changed your perception of being parents?

Um, that is a good question. It reminds me of like playing a new video game and you know how at the start you've got like the option of like easy, medium, hard, legendary. I feel like we got kind of started the game on, um, maybe hard, not legendary give yourself legendary status. No way. Triplets. I'll give you. Yeah. Imagine that could happen. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, so you don't know any different, but you do know, like, like last night or this morning, five o'clock, Murphy woke up and then Hazel, she woke Hazel up and that was it.

Like so often one will wake up for some reason and then just as you get them to sleep, the other wakes up and he's like, all right, we're doing that all and then it's just bouncing back and forth and they have a good nap and then that one way. Yeah. So that happens a lot. And I do think, oh, there was one baby that wouldn't happen, even a toddler and a baby that wouldn't happen the same way. Yeah. But, um, that's what makes this situation unique, isn't it? Like first, first time, I guess like twins are fairly prevalent.

You guys probably know the numbers. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like, oh, our type of twins is like, I think it's like, wasn't that three or one in one in 600 or something like that. Yeah. But then actual twins, I think, you know, maybe one in a hundred or something like that. And then for the first two as well, that obviously drops the numbers down. So if we have more kids, theoretically our chances are significantly increased. So I'm genuinely like, it'll be triplets and then I'll just chill myself. He says I'm three hours late. Sam sleeps.

Sam sleeps. Yeah. That doesn't surprise me. I'm actually a little bit scared of that, of like, cause I can kind of sleep through anything and KP can't. So I don't want to be a non contributor in that aspect because I'm just not waking up. Uh, you'll be woken up. KP will kick me or throw something at me. But it is frustrating that like I wake up and have to wake him up, so I'm up anyway. Whereas like he gets to sleep through unless he gets woken up by me and he's like, I don't wake him up unless it's absolutely a nightmare.

Normally he just wakes me up to get them for 19. Recently. Yeah. Since I've been sick. I've been sick for a couple of weeks. Yeah. That must be tough having both of them. This is the first eight month old on the podcast. So yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Um, what do you wish, what do you wish you knew this time last year? Um, I guess you don't know what you don't know. Yeah. I, I feel like it was about this time last year where I started realizing that there were going to be a lot of people who were really excited and prepared to help out.

Um, and so, um, I guess I, maybe I, I, I, I thought that people would be really supportive. Um, uh, and so, but I wish I knew just how supportive that would be and how much love and help. And you know, like we go take the kids into common folk pretty much every day for a coffee and you'll lose them. Like people just come up to you and grab them off you, which is really good in my way, really bad cause you want to cover them and then you don't get to, but um, it means that Eliza can go and eat some food and drink a coffee and gain some sammy.

Yeah, almost always I get a meal and I don't think most parents get this. I get a meal where I can eat without the babies. Well remember Sam, when at your baby shower you were talking about how, oh no, we were talking about how, it is incredible to watch you two dealing with them wriggling and bouncing around in your hand and you're swapping them and bouncing them around. But I remember in your speech how you spoke about, you know, that it takes a village to raise a kid and you're really appreciative of the village you've got.

Oh my gosh. We've got like 10 villages, we're so lucky. Like you've got common folk, you've got a great group of friends out in that. Yeah. Families as well. And family. Some people don't even have that. Yeah. Well I guess you're lucky, but like you've created with the help of a lot of other people that environment and that community to be able to provide support for not only you guys, but all the other families kind of going through the same thing. Yeah. I mean, this is why I'm like, I just know that you and KP

are going to, um, it'd be challenging to have such a great time because I know that, you know, almost more than us, you guys are going to have so many people, you know, looking to support you and help you. And you're like, are you going to be training with a baby, she got to the front of you in like a little thing. Probably bought it. You probably got where to go. Yeah. We got one of those coming. One of those. Yeah. Probably still squat with the baby. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I do train at home often.

If I can't go to the gym, they've cracked it or something. Yeah. I know how much that weighs. I just kind of do squats, holding them out and they love it. Just before I was doing back rolls with them, holding them on, because they just, you know, they love it. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Any exercising, maybe we should run a class. Oh, that's definitely a class. There's a class in that course. You could become a pioneer. How have you gone going from like training a fair bit beforehand to obviously when you were pregnant, you were, you went through the wars a little bit there for a period of time and then slowly getting back into training.

Has it exceeded your expectations, how, how you've been able to get back into it or what's it been like? Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about it just today as I was doing the goblet, goblet squat, but that was the first time I've been able to do that since I had the baby. Yeah. And, um, I, I was thinking like, I'm not a particularly, um, uh, I'm fortunate in that I'm not as, um, tied up in the whole self-worth in, in my, how I look. A lot of women get that pressure and you know, um, it's really hard to, like, you know, I have it a little bit like anyone else, but yeah, I'm pretty comfortable with my own skin.

I kind of don't care, but, um, even still, um, like it's like when you're sick and you can't do something and then you're like, Oh, I'm better. I can want to do it again now. I feel better, but you're not. So it kind of did surprise me post babies, everyone talks about 12 weeks or something, you know, you're always going to start exercising at 12 weeks or something like that. And you kind of expect that to mean you'll be back. Yeah. You'll be back to where you were. Yeah. And then I was fortunate in the fact because it's twins, everyone, I was able to give myself a bit more grace.

It's twins. So just, you know, it's going to take a little longer, be patient, but I think it's something like twins or no, like, I think you said to me, Sam, that, um, you know, expect your body to at least take as long, like it took, um, nine months for your body to change is amount expected to take nine, nine months to change back. I like that. But I mean, I mean, that's not, it's not a scientific statement, but in my mind it makes sense. It's like, why would you expect, like, you remember how difficult it was to work through the pregnancy and how much strain your body was in.

It makes sense. The feeling of when your rib cage is physically moving back into position. It's pretty insane. Like I think about my actual rib cage was out there and I remember the feeling as it was kind of crunching back into position, like that's weird. Right. And it's like, okay, yeah, so I'm, cause I'm, you know, you have your ups and downs with days and stuff and frustrations. And then I was like, Oh, I should give a shout out to, and I was trying to work out like, and then I realized like literally every single

purpose coach has been so helpful and it's almost like the day that I needed them to be this kind of, you know, to push me a little cause I was too scared I'd hurt myself or to tell me to chill out because I was pushing myself too much. Yeah. Whatever it was, the person who was there that day just always was the right, had the right response for me. It was so nice. So I was like, Oh yeah, I can't shout out any one coach cause they have all, actually that's one thing, I think that's

one thing Veritas might not even realize that it's good for people who are say, you know, like not gym people or not athletic people or maybe recovering from an injury or have like a really special need when it comes to their training. Veritas just automatically fits those people because of the attention you guys provide to your clients. But then also the fact that you try and build a relationship with every individual person. You know, like for example, me, I might have some things I'm doing poorly or some ways that I, you know, move that aren't

perfect, but the risk is lower than someone say coming back from giving birth to twins, having split abs and all of these really individual requirements at another gym, even like crossfit or even personal training. Sometimes it's just like, here's the program, go and do it with Veritas. It just can't happen. You guys will never let that happen. And that's good. You explained something. You showed me how to do something and then how many times have you had to show me again or I focus on one part of it, not the other. And it's cool to hear, like that's our job as a coach is to be able to adapt the program to the individual.

And yeah, we run a group program with a set group program with a program for everyone, but there's so many regressions and progressions. And I think that's, that's one of the things that our team does really well is everyone's been around long enough and understands well enough that there's 20 different ways to squat. You know, there's so many different ways we can implement the same program that all we have to do is when we haven't and Hazel is just face planted into the couch. She cannonballed, her face stopped the rest of her body from getting really hurt.

So I think that, that in itself, we, before anything else, we push community. We want to be the best coaching experience possible before anything else. We push community and that's an innate understanding of where everyone's at. Um, so that's, that's a really cool, it's good. Yeah. Oh, well I seriously, I, and the other thing I guess, being kind to yourself in coming back to training and stuff, but also trying to set, I think something that someone would have told me along the way, but just, just keep trying a little bit. So like, you know, the girls crack it and I'm just like, let's go to the gym.

Maybe that won't crack it once we're there and then they crack it. And so I come five minutes and leave and I'm like, well that sucked. And most people I'd be like, you know, it's so much effort to get there. It's a full 45 minute process to get out the door for 10 minutes and then back another 15, 20 minutes to pack everything up again. But it's a habit type that even though it's not like every Tuesday I go, it's, this is how we get in the car and how we get, and the babies kind of get used to that.

Definitely. And it helps kind of, um, it makes it easier. So like, I guess if for all those about to have baby parents, I'd suggest is just kind of keep trying and it's full on stressful and scary and screaming and you're on alert and you're exhausted, but also, you know, that's fine. Just try again tomorrow. Just do your best. It's different for everyone too. Like we're part of the, like, um, the morning to finish multiple births. So the group thing just cause, uh, you know, it's just some support from people who legitimately get what you're going through.

Um, and like we're being lucky because there's some people who, you know, like it's so common to spend weeks, if not months in, in NICU because of issues, you know, during the pregnancy and birth and even when you get them home, for some people it's almost impossible for them to leave the house. And you know, we've, we've kind of been, it fits because they weren't expecting twins and they've got three older kids. Or they're just so exhausted that they've, you know, it's not easy for them to mentally and physically to just get out of there

and, um, and it's, um, and so we're really grateful I guess as well for the fact that we've been able to, you know, have, um, even what we have, even though it's been difficult. Did you, did you guys set kind of like, whether you talked about it or whether it was just subconscious, you set an intention to try and get out of the house and to try and immerse yourself back in the community and not, yeah, cause it's definitely from our end, like I'm talking to KP about it, we've trying to be aware of, we

don't want to like, we'll do whatever we need to do, but we don't want to just sit at home and I don't want KP to just sit at home. I want her to be able to get out and start getting back into a regular routine. For me, it's like, I reckon when I started at Virtus motivating myself to go to the gym, I could do that because guys like Tommy T and Brownie and you were pushing me to go just to that one Tuesday afternoon, you know, when I got in the habit of doing that, it was easier for me to get in the habit of maybe going to a few more BGTs because it wasn't natural to me.

And I think it's the same thing, just getting out of the house when you're a new parent is you have to find people who will encourage you to do it. You have to push through your desire to not do it and then you'll find you're in the habit of doing it and actually just becomes easier, even though Eliza said it takes 45 minutes every time you do it. Some people are, that's a hurdle, that's too big a hurdle for me, but when you're used to it, you're just like, oh, that's just how, that's just now how long it takes to get into the car.

Yeah. It's not a 30 second job anymore. No, no, no. It's just, that's just the new normal. Yeah. And something it's been really inspiring to see, like especially lives rocking up with the gym in the morning, like, and, and not knowing, cause we don't know, but somewhat trying to understand the journey you've gone through to get to that point in the mornings. Like, it's really cool to see you walk out the driveway with the twins, twins in hand. I forgot, I forgot that it's like, you know, it is my new normal now and then cause

my cells started going, he saw me, he was walking out to go to the 9 30 session and he's like, oh, I'll see her now. I was like, yep. Cause I'd just arrived. And then I come in, you know, 10 minutes later, I have to put the wheels in the pram and everything. And he goes, oh, I thought you were lost. Cause he doesn't realize what it actually takes, but also like, like Sam said, it's different for everyone. So kind of set expectations, but also being very gracious with each other and yourselves. Just, just if you don't, you know, you're not going to always be able to do it and not everyone's extroverted.

Like we're both extroverts. So it kind of helps that we both kind of wander around. Yeah, definitely. That's, that's what suits. Like I went to one of these like multiple things for about four months and there was someone there who was at six month olds and that was a third outing. Yeah. Wow. And I was just like, I will die two days by having left the house for girls. Yeah. Well we took the girls before we took them home. Yeah. That was bad. I needed coffee. Sorry Hugh. I'm sure you could have gotten any one of 30 people to deliver some for you, but also good.

How has it affected your relationship? Having two kids? We talk about kids a lot now, but you know how like parents become infuriating and all that you hear them talk about is their kids. Like it's kids. That's all you want to talk about. Like you love them more than anything in the world and like the kids are funny. Like they develop and change so much quicker than adults do. And so like there's actually always interesting stuff to talk about, which is, and it's fun when it's your kid. Cause you know, you're like, there's nothing more fun than judging, you know, so judging your own is also fun.

I think, you know, and laughing at the dumb stuff you do or, you know. So long story short, I think Eliza's, you know, more incredible every day for what she does. And I don't think I've lost any love for her in the sense that we don't have time for each other now. Yeah. Because we're just sharing another common interest, which is like our beautiful little girls. Like, um, I find it funny every time it happens when the rare occasions, the girls go to bed and I'm not so tired, I just go to bed as well. And we'll sit downstairs and without our phones and stuff, it's like, seriously, that's all I ever do.

That's all we ever want to do. I think at first it was kind of like, Oh, is this bad? Um, and then I'm like, you know, and you reflect on it, you're like, Oh, it's just overtaking, you know, your relationship, you know, and making you just this one dimensional kind of couple. But, um, but no, it's legitimately not, I still have other interests in everything. It's just that like together, it's just so nice to celebrate what you have. It's new and special. Yeah. Like, cause every day something different happens once they're like, you know, three or four years old.

I'm pretty sure it would be a little bit more like they're not doing a new thing every day. So it might be a bit more normal then. I don't know. We'll find out. Yeah, is it, is it weird to look at them and kind of say like this thing that I've created that is pretty much perfection in your eyes? Like we created it. What's that like? Hazel? Yeah. Um, it's absolutely surreal. Like I know that they're my kids, but every night when no one takes them from our house to take them home, it's like, it's like, Oh, these babies stay with us.

Like these humans. Yeah. Um, it's genuinely trippy. Um, maybe, maybe more so as a dad, I'm not sure because you didn't carry them. And so the first time you sort of really meet them is when they pass them to you, you know, delivery and, and then, you know, like you're a dad. Just like happens. Like, you know, obviously you're part of the process, you know, um, the nine months prior, somewhat. Yeah. But only somewhat. Yeah. Um, and so for me, I still don't quite feel like a parent, but I'm holding my kid. Yeah. What about you?

Well, it blows my mind that I faced, I, they still haven't been alive as long as they were, as I was pregnant. Yeah. Like, and how much has happened and like how huge they are. Yeah. They're huge kids. But, um, yeah, I don't know. I think it's pretty, at first it certainly felt like babysitting. Yep. And I like babysitting. It's like eternal babysitting. And then, yeah, it's just like, Oh, babysitting and exhaustion. That's it. But then, and, but then as they're growing and you, you'd find this, I found this in relationship with Sam. I'm sure he would be happy.

But as they're growing, as you're spending more time with them, you're more in love with them. Yep. And it's not that you could have been more like right now, kind of imagine being more in love with them than I am now. Yeah. But I'm more in love with them than they were yesterday. So that's a really nice experience. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now. Yeah. But I'm more in love with them than they were yesterday. So that's a really nice experience. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now.

Yeah. And it's not that I'm in love with them than I am now. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now. Yeah. And it's not that I'm in love with them than I am now. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now. Yeah. And it's not that I'm in love with them than I am now. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now. Cause it's kind of like, I'm more in love with them than I am now.

Yeah. Except with dribbly, dribbly, poopy, vomiting babies. Oh yeah. What was the, like, take yourselves back to when you first took them home, what was the feeling like? Oh, exhaustion. Uh, but. Exhaustion from you. Excuse me, he left me the first night in the hospital that I had them to myself for the night. He went home. He said, oh, I read a book that is better for one of us to be happy and not to come in. So I was just up all night having just had twins. And Sam was at home having a good sleep.

Cause at the hospital you have all, like, you know, all the support you want. When we take them home, that was the logic. I reckon Sam's logic was, I'm going to get one last good quality sleep in. I didn't sleep cause I was excited. I should have just stayed in the hospital. I'll put that, I'll put that down in my notes. You won't sleep anyway cause she was thinking about the baby. Frankston, Frankston, Frankston, uh, what else could I suggest, can I turn this into advice for you? Yeah. A hundred percent. Oh yeah. Well, I was going to ask the second half of the podcast.

I'm definitely, definitely going to ask all those questions. Yeah. Okay. Well maybe I'll answer that. One thing I do want to ask is how did you get one, how did you do, did you decide on and two, how did you agree on the names? Cause like, I'm sure, I'm sure I'm going to fuck up a lot of things over the next 18 years, but I don't want to fuck up a name. Yeah. I'm constantly like, yeah, no matter what we show is I'm like, they might resent you for choosing something really straight or they might resent you for doing something a bit weird.

Yeah. So it's more about who gets which name. Wrong way. Well that, that's, that's another part of it for you guys. Like how do you pick which one gets which name? So we'd actually figured it out. So we, we, we had four girls names and four boys names cause we didn't know what we were going to have. And middle names already set. And we both agreed on one of the names really early on and then the second name, this was for girls, sorry. And then the second name we had like a, quite a big list or as with boys names we were struggling just in general, which two names we really wanted.

Cause your family have had 50,000 boys, stole all the names. And so I think in the end we, we went with yeah, sort of two very different names so that each of the girls could have their own identity. Like, you know, it's not like, you know, like Harry and Henry or something, you know, which is fine. Like there's a lot of parents who do that and that's really nice too. But we were really aware cause they're identical and cause my dad's an identical twin and I've seen, I've seen sort of the dad and his brother and everything, we wanted them to at least have an opportunity to, to bid themselves.

And so that sort of led towards, you know, two quite different names. Hazel, which is, you know, like a bit of an old school girl's name and then Murphy, which is like basically a last name, but apparently cause everyone thinks she's a guy. Yeah. Like, I love the names. It was like, I think you've done a really cool, yeah, cause it's something like KP and I have, every time the name conversation comes up, like we've got a couple that we're starting to agree on, but especially girl's names. Do you have different flavors? Like what, what are your numbers?

Do you know what I'm saying? No, I'm not going to say. Well, I'm going to say names, but. I don't even know. There, there's a couple of like old school kind of names with the boys because yeah, we still don't know. Yeah. We still don't know what we're having. I've, I've got like a little list cause I use the baby name app Kindle and there was just too many. So I just made a little list in my notes on my phone and I haven't looked at it. We have shared. Yeah. I haven't looked at it

for about probably two months, but there's probably like two or three guys names that I like and in terms of girls names, there's one that I like. Yeah. KP doesn't like it. Apparently there's a, someone she knows who's got a kid and there's also a dog at the school that has the same name. So the same thing happened with us for a girl's name. Eliza loved it. Yeah. I'm not going to mention the name cause I don't want to ruin names for anyone. But there was a person I went to school with who had this name, absolutely hated very massive bully.

Um, and we're a real jerk and I was like, nah, I can do it. Even though it's a great name, it's the name of like, it's, it's a famous name. The person who's associated with it is incredible. The whole story would make perfect sense for our personalities, but nah, absolutely not. I'll tell me. I will. I will. I will. But it could be, I don't want to ruin it. It might be on my list. Cause I like the name. But it wouldn't ruin a thing that you knew someone who was crap with that. Yeah. Yeah. True.

True. True. Don't tell me that. One of the names that was on my list, um, someone close to us said it a couple of weeks ago and I just looked and I said, please don't repeat that because like KP doesn't want to, and I'm not telling KP what your name was, but KP doesn't want someone else to pick the name, which I completely understand. And like, she's been, it's actually been really funny. Um, I kind of been teasing her a little bit about it. Well, I mean, as a general rule, unless you're going to make up a name that's never been used before.

I don't recommend doing it. It's getting it from someone. Yeah. But I do get it. You don't want like, you know, uncle Sam to be like, Oh, well I named your child. About halfway, halfway through. Cause I will do that if you name it. Yeah. A couple of months ago, um, her mom was like messaging her names and she said, mom, I love you. Please stop. Because if you do pick a name that I already like, I can't do it. Yeah. Exactly. Are you doing like any like, um, callbacks to family names or anything, middle names?

Well, that's, we've got, we've got to keep diving into this conversation, like me and KP because, so my pa was, pa's, so dad's middle name was my pa's name. My middle name is my dad's name. Um, but I don't really have any interest in having my kid's name as my, my name is a middle name. Yeah. But I would like, if it's a boy, I would like it to probably be my dad's name. Yeah. Okay. Um, if KP is happy with that, but yeah, I'm, I'm still worried about the, uh, the Christian name, not the middle name, I think when we nail the Christian name, we'll, uh, pick the middle name.

Yeah. Well my theory was always middle names, like especially for Mary because it's a bit unusual. She can, she can go by Joy, which is a bit more traditional. Yeah. If she wants. If she wants. I don't think she will. That's my thing. She's a mad dog. She is a mad dog. Oh, look at them. Oh, this is so tranquil. How often does this happen? Both of them asleep at the same time. Oh, she's just cruising. Um, so they're not very great at sleeping during the day. Yeah. Mainly because I probably, cause I'd throw them around.

We're out and about all day, but they probably sleep half hours and you're meant to sleep like two hours. And depending. So they just don't want to. Well, no, like one might like what's just happened to me. One might be 15 minutes later than the other. I don't know. I'll get maybe 10 minutes before the other one wakes up or quickly have a shower. So maybe that happens twice. As the last eight months gone quickly or? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, starting a business, which we've both done, you know, like things just snowball and you find yourself like six months, 12 months, four years and you're like, how, where did that go?

But this has been ridiculous. Like I remember Eliza being pregnant, having babies, let alone the fact that they're eight months old. Yeah. They had their first Christmas and you know, um, they're starting to like try and stand up and they're crawling around. Um, it's trippy, um, but then at the same time, and this is actually really nice when you're in the moment and when you're holding one of them or when you've been woken up in middle of the night and you have to attend to it, it can feel like it's going for ages and you feel like it's groundhog day.

Yeah. Um, and you can choose then either to really enjoy and embrace that, which I've really tried to do or, you know, resent it because you're like, Oh, this is my life now. What's the saying everyone says about parents, the days are long and the years are short. Yeah. Okay. That's interesting. But you can appreciate it both. So I think that, you know, if you can live in the now, you can really experience all of the joy and the tiredness and everything else that comes with it. I think I'm going to leave you with the kids for a night on your own before you keep saying this.

Well I love you, I said do it, but you've got to feed them. The way I kind of articulate it, like hitting four years of vertices, like it's, it's gone really quick, but so much has happened. Yeah. And I can, I can remember like if you, I like go back into like each day, like every day so much has happened, but at the same time I feel like it's just like going like that and it's four years down the track. What are you guys most excited for for the next eight, 12 months? I'm really excited for them to like interact with each other more.

They look at each other a lot, they steal each other's toys a lot, but they're not really playing with each other or talking to each other yet. Just like two days ago they were kind of looking at each other and doing their baby talk thing, but I don't think they were quite there yet. I'm super excited for that. I think that's going to be really fun and also it's going to be, it's like how you people look forward to walking and crawling and stuff and then you're like, Oh, yeah, that can't keep me in one spot.

Yeah. But I think they're going to like cause all sorts of mischief when they can like work out together. Just get a little tether time together. I will and put Pavlov in the middle, so there's the three words exactly. How old were you when your twin sisters were born? Four. Do you remember? No, not really. I was going to say it gives me a bit curious to know what your thoughts are when they start interacting. Cause a lot of people say sort of 10 months to a year. It's like, I know it's definitely weird because

like when they were really little, maybe like 10, maybe 10 weeks old, I don't know, but I remember distinctly they looked at each other for the first time and one of the very first laughs they ever did and they both laughed and I'm like, Whoa, that's hectic, but then I haven't done that. Oh no, you look the same as me. What about you Sam? I'll definitely reciprocate what Eliza just said. I can't wait to see their relationship develop and be slightly jealous of it because, you know, for most first time parents, the time spent with a young child is doing a relationship with them, but our kids will probably build it with each other first and foremost.

That's okay. And it would be cool. But then also, and I know everyone says, you know, I've just talked about appreciating the moment and living in that. But then if I am going to look to the future, you know, like I can't wait to, you know, see what they want to talk about, what they're interested in, you know, the ways that they're different. And that stuff is just so exciting. It's all like on one hand, I want to wait for that and let it happen in its own time. And on the other hand, I'm so excited for when it does happen to see what it is.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I think I really enjoy just being with them and taking the time to just be their dad. And give Eliza a break as well, because she's done such a, continuing to do such an incredible job, but it's so exhausting for her. But it's limiting how much I can take them off her because she's still feeding them both. And almost more for her sake, less than theirs now, because if she doesn't, you know, things get nasty. But, and that'll wind down sort of over the next few months or so. I think, yeah, the next few months, I mean, they've been sick now for a month really.

And so I think once I come back, once we come back from Burma, they'll probably have... Yeah fill me in on the next few weeks. What's planned? Well, I'm going to sleep. I say sleep like a baby, but I don't know why that's an expression, because I'm going to sleep like I did 10 months ago. So I'm heading off to Uganda to visit the crew and see Kookaburra, shout outs to those guys. And with Tommy T and Annie Dell to do some work on the coffee farms. And Eliza basically said to me, well, fuck that, if you're going overseas, I'm going overseas.

I love that so much. I was in the peak middle of July was the hearts month. The long dark winter nights. Awful winter. I always hate winter anyway. And then I got quite sick for that whole month. The girls didn't, thankfully, good on breastfeeding, but I just like, I still remember like shivering. I had this awful temperature and I'm just patting them both in their beds, trying to get them to both sleep. Oh, it was like the worst time of my life. And that's when Sam was like, you know, booking my flight to go away. And then I found out my parents were going away at the same time for a holiday and I'm like, no, you don't.

I'm coming with you. Yeah. I have a brother who lives in Burma, so I'm going to go visit him and probably get experience their first earthquake. There's been a few in Burma the past few days. It's funny. I think on a previous podcast, we'd said how we wanted to do like a significant experience or trip every year of their life if we could, because it was something that, you know, was important to us. I never thought that it would be Burma at 8 months, but lucky girls, they probably won't remember it. Yeah, it's pretty exciting to be able to, to have, I guess, have the capacity to be able to take them.

Yeah. I mean, well, if I didn't have my mum, I couldn't. Oh, technically I can now early on in the piece is when it would be easier to fly because a) they're smaller, b) they sleep more and c) they're more portable, they're more happy to sleep wherever. Whereas these guys are starting to, you know, they know their names, they know what they like and dislike. So it's a bit harder to trick them into doing stuff you don't, you want. But I physically, and that was part of that whole in July, I was like, I just want to go somewhere warm.

And I was stuck because I can't, you can't fly with two babies with one adult until they're old enough to, you buy a second seat and they can sit in a car seat that you bring with you. It's this whole thing. And so, yeah, I just felt very trapped. So do these two fly for free? No, it depends on the airline, we own Malaysia Airlines, so they're, I think, $100. So are you at Patagonia next year for you, Wallace, and little Sammy, or your real name. Yeah, I don't know how KP will think about that,

but we, I do, yeah, I think something similar like the, this one cool experience every year of their life as a family will be pretty exciting. And I think I don't want to be the, I don't want to not do those trips that we would have done together or separate, obviously it changes the trip, it's a different trip, but at the same time, it doesn't mean you can't not do it. That's what someone said, that holidays, once you've had kids, you shouldn't call it a holiday, you should call it a break, change of scenery, because you're still doing everything you normally do.

I think Sam got more tired. We had our first holiday a few weeks ago during the day of the day, I think Sam got more tired on that holiday. It definitely did. Because I was like, well, fine, you're not working, I'm waking you up when I wake up. But to be fair, I didn't even wake him up all the time, no. Did you wake up all the time? But yeah, so it's still pretty exhausting. Definitely. It's still like, wait, why am I working on my holiday? What was it like, obviously running a business, taking time off, but then going back to work?

That's a question for both of you, because obviously your experience with Eliza would be different to Sam's. I was a bit worried about it, not so much taking the time off, because it had been a long time coming, and everyone knew I was going to take six weeks off, which was a hard six weeks. It was something that we were both really passionate and convicted about, that we wanted to spend that time together. So that happened, and the team were great, like, you know, shout outs to everybody, common folk who basically not just did their job, but excelled at it.

But then going back was probably more scary, trying to navigate leading a really growing business that's still, in my opinion, young and has so much more to achieve and to accomplish and to do, whilst being really split with my priorities, probably more than ever before. So it was easy for Eliza to understand why I would spend long nights doing something or why I'd be, you know, working six or seven days a week instead of the five that she wishes I worked. She wanted to go back to sleep, you just set her up, she woke up. And so I didn't know how I would navigate that space or what I'd be like.

And so what it's probably been, has been a year of compromise on both levels. On one hand, you know, realizing that I can't do as much as I previously might have done from a work point of view, but still being responsible for leading our team and making sure that business as usual happens. But also we grow and we've done some crazy stuff like we've separated our one entity into multiple entities to better reflect what we do. We've acquired businesses, we've lost significant people and then hired new ones, and that still has to happen. I still have to lead that.

But on the other hand, my priority that is my family and Eliza and the girls and also not like, you know, it's so hard to leave for work now when they're sitting there on the ground looking at me going like, oh, don't go, you know, in their minds. It's really tough. But knowing that actually like part of loving them is doing that and being responsible for their wellbeing from that perspective. It's been strange. I'll see if I can think of a better way to describe it, but that's probably the best way to put it is that you need to get used to compromising.

Because there's two things that you're going to love and you can't give them all your attention. Has it helped you working for yourself effectively? That's a really good question too. Because of my personality type probably helped because I'm okay working sort of independently and being self-motivated like I have a lot that I want to do and I'll do it, which means that it's been easy enough for me to still focus on certain things that need to get done without dropping the ball. But then also then going, well, I can take time off to go and

do this thing with the kids because I know that I'll do that a little bit extra later on to cover off things I might have missed. If you were the kind of person who could only really focus on one thing at once, I think that running your own business would be really difficult because you probably feel like you were, my beard is in very grave danger of being ripped out, you probably feel like you were not achieving anything because you need to be in two spaces. What about you, Liza, how did things change after that first six weeks?

It was probably a more intense six weeks, like the change was more intense than anticipated because five weeks after they were born, my mum was in a bike accident and broke her jaw and arm a bunch and she was like out of it, which meant my dad was out there taking care of her and they were kind of in luck to kind of swoop in at that six week mark and help me. But, you know, and so it was a bit of a baptism by fire, me with these tiny babies on my own, but at

the same time it was really, I got used to it quite quickly and, you know, they became, well, it just becomes, it was quite good cause I kind of went, okay, I can do this on my own. And then once, you know, my parents started being able to help again and stuff, it was just like a bonus rather than like, you knew you could do it. Yeah. I knew I could do it. And that was kind of, it was really good. Yeah. I mean, it was nuts intense, but yeah. Have you missed work? Yes and

no, I still keep up with people from work, so that's kind of helps, but also I've been doing a bit of like, um, I think earlier on it, it was harder, but, um, like we still do a few, like we're on like a finance board for a local charity and like going to those meetings and providing some input there and I've been doing some work with RMIT in a mentoring program, which is kind of, it's just makes me, you know, I'm talking about adult things. It's quite nice. Yeah. Um, even though it, it's very, you've very quickly realized that your brain, if you just bump it a little bit, your brain kind of, is not where it once was.

She incited to Sam's parenting style. She's so tired, Sam. She was meant to stay asleep. She'll fall back asleep. Hopefully. It was 20 minutes. Today she's been doing 20 minutes. Um, but yeah, no, so that's fine. Um, looking forward to going back equal parts with, you know, it's going to be full on. Yeah. When, what's the timeline? When are you looking at going back? Um, March. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Cause KP's taken effectively a year off. Yeah. Um, a year from, yeah, so she's going back to term four next year. So I think 47 weeks or something like that.

She, yeah, so the last term we'll kind of just see how, how things are working. She might do some CRT work or something on those lines, but yeah, I'm really excited. I'm, I'm excited and equally parts intrigued to see how she goes. Cause she's not a sit at home, do nothing kind of person. So she'll, she'll be able to explore different things and help out I'm sure with a bunch of the stuff that we've got going on and a bunch of stuff that few friends have got going on. Um, but yeah, it's going to be, I think it's going to be really interesting to see how she deals with it.

I'm excited for that. All right. Now the, the big question or, um, next probably 45 minutes with the podcast, this is the last question I'm going to ask. So you guys can take it as deep as you want. What advice do you have for new parents or soon to be parents or me? Um, I feel so, uh, what's the word kind of, um, you know, my brain's, um, I wouldn't want to like tell people do something this way because you know, everyone's different, but I know you're a little bit lost. So I'm much more happy to give you advice than I would just go give general parents advice.

Good. Um, I think, uh, and also because we're probably similar in many ways, doing similar things with our lives, um, it's so important. Um, I think, uh, to look after KP and look after your child initially, um, in whatever way they need you to, not in the way that you think you should. Um, and you know, you won't do it all the time, but, um, you know, if you listen, you probably do it more often than not. Um, and it means that Virtus just can't be a priority in the way that it previously has. Um,

the good thing is similar to me, you're lucky that you've got such an incredible team of people, many who will probably be more confident, uh, looking after Virtus in your absence than, than, than you would be you doing it whilst also trying to dab at the same time. Yeah. 100%. Oh, geez. She's sick. She is. She is. Poor Nerv. Poor Nerv. Um, uh, so yeah, my advice would just be let people do things that they're good at to support you, um, and you just be there, um, and be okay with just being there and just being ready to help.

Not even necessarily doing anything. I reckon. Yeah. I like that. Eliza, do you think that that would be useful? Listen is a good one. As a partner. Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of left it pretty open with work and almost intentionally. So just to kind of like let things happen as they need to happen. Um, like I don't know, I was thinking of kind of setting dates and expectations about when I'm going to be back and all that kind of stuff. But I think I'm going to, like, I'm very fortunate that with the team we've got and with the time of year it is that we'll have a little bit of flexibility around when and what it actually looks like.

Um, but it's all up in the air. Who knows how things are going to go? Yeah. And that's, you know, one, you don't know how your child's going to go. But like, like these girls are identical and yet they're so different. So different. Yeah. Which is really great. Um, in the sense that you can, I don't know, like you're just going to, I think KP got the same happy back. Probably. Yeah, it's good having a backpack or at least when you've got two kids, I don't know, maybe it's different. But um, sorry. What was the question?

Advice from your parents or advice from me? Advice for you guys. Yeah. That's a bit easier because it's, um, I was talking to KP and she said something else. I was like, yes, it's true. Um, there's a difference between advice and opinions. And I think take on all the advice you can take from what you want. I say, yeah, but, and don't, don't feel, um, forced into someone's opinion. Yeah. That makes sense to do something like, yeah, I have to do things slightly different to get, you know, she's a talker, so she enjoys like music and things.

This one's a bit more physical, so I do lots more physical activities with her and, um, to get them to sleep. I have to do different things. Well, like people have opinions, like, you know, never use dummies, never let people be like, always use dummies. Yeah. People like, um, breast is best and if you don't breastfeed, you're a horrible person. There'll be other people who are like, you know, like, uh, never feel ashamed in breastfeeding you. In fact, if it's difficult, you shouldn't even do it and it's like their opinions, not really advice. Yeah. And it's up to you and KP and KP in particular, because it's her body, um, uh, what to take on board.

Um, and I reckon then maybe this would be advice for you from me is like, you know, going back to her, um, first and foremost, before you go into that for other people's opinions. You know, and you, and I don't know what KP's perspective is, but Eliza has been really, you know, like key for me to share my thoughts and stuff as well with her and we always discuss things. But ultimately, you know, like it's no one else's business, you know, by the way. And that, that goes like all the way from like, you know, you know, people like, you know, our parents all the way through to people who we don't even know.

I'll tell you what though, it's a lot of unsolicited advice, like from people who don't even know who you are. That's almost funny. I always noticed that beforehand, like before it's even happened. Yeah. My favorite one for Eliza, um, someone in a shopping center said to her, Oh, twins, that's really lucky. It must be so much easier than one. And I was screaming like she did it. Which made me even more surprised. I was like, what? I think she meant when they're older. Who knows? Because they can talk to each other. I do not know. I was too tired and frazzled cause I was trying to take two babies.

Also people never, if I'm walking them in a pram by myself or if I have them by myself, um, with the exception of other dads, especially twin dads or old men, no one stops to talk to me. I think it's like, I thought that I'd be stopped all the time. Because I'm stopped literally every two minutes. No one talks to me, maybe it's my beard or the fact that I'm successful or something. You're very intimidating human. Yeah. Someone did think he was homeless. Yeah, that's true. In their defense, I looked homeless. Um, and that was really nice.

I think I told, did I tell you this story? Um, it's just, just for anyone out there who's, who's, who's lost faith in humanity. Let me just share a story, but hopefully rekindles it a little bit. Good. It was the first really hot night. Well, I've got one more question on the humanity part. Awesome. It was the first really hot night of the season, um, uh, and over this year, and it will be the first night over sort of 30 degrees for these girls and they weren't sleeping. So I put them in the pram, grabbed

the beer, chucked on my vertices, a couple of beers, and attached my dog and, um, my dog, you know, he's a bit of a mutt. So I went for a walk down to, I went for a walk down to Mornington Pier. I mean, I would have looked interesting, um, and an old dude, um, with his young son who was fishing on the pier walked up to me and he just tapped me on the shoulder and he said, "Oh, just wanted to ask you, are you okay?" Um, and I was like, "Oh, no, I'm fine." And I, you know, like my, my girls wouldn't sleep, so I went and came for a walk and all this kind of thing.

And he said, "Oh, oh, cool." It didn't mean any offense. It's just that, you know, we thought maybe you were homeless and I wanted to offer you somewhere to sleep. And I was like, "Oh, like, I mean, I'm not, but isn't that the nicest thing?" This is local business leader Sam Keck just being asked if he's homeless on Mornington Pier. That's wonderful. Oh, I looked homeless. But, um, but I just thought it was really like, like a ballsy move from this guy. He wasn't a big guy. Um, and when his son there had to, you know, to just check to see that I was okay.

He saw that I had kids I guess. Yeah. I thought it was really nice. It was, it was the nicest thing a stranger had said to me, I think, since we'd had the kids. Yeah. That's really nice. So there you go, man. Like people, people out there looking out for people still. I think that's a really important thing is that like the, the big things I've got out of this is everyone wants to help and people are always willing to let you say yes. And just say yes. Yeah. Have you guys been able to accept help?

Yeah. We, we were, we were told very early on by a twin, the twins group, you know, like you might have a single baby and you might want to go out alone and you might survive. You might. With twins, every time someone offers, even when it's that like obligatory, "Oh, if there's anything we can do to help, just ask," just say, "Yeah, we'll do this." Actually do this. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Can you hold the baby while I go change the other one?" They shut themselves. Yeah. So just say yes. Yeah. And people learn really quickly not to offer for help.

If, if they know you're going to say yes and they don't really want to get it. But the offers pretty much still keep coming in. So people really do want help. They do. I think that's especially important. Most women, women are meant to be able to kind of do everything and especially parent, you know, "Oh, that's what we're made for," you know? And so it's like accepting help can be a bit counterintuitive. Yeah. And there were a few times where Sam, where I've said, "Oh no, it'll be fine," like, because I'm going to say, "Oh, it'll be all right," and then Sam's like, "No, no, no, let's do that."

Yes, please. "I'll take that." Yeah. Yeah. Oh, oh, my tears. Oh. My, um, my question that I'm not exactly sure how to word is going to be the last one, so these guys can go home and go to sleep. No, they're just getting up. They had their half hour. With the current, how can I put this? The world's a little fucked up at the moment and it's seemingly going the wrong way. How does it make you feel now, not only having to worry about yourself, but having to worry about these two, about what the future looks like?

That seems to, the children future type rhetoric seems to be in media a lot with climate change stuff. Yeah. So it is, it's on everyone's mind at the moment, I think, like in the public, but no, it hasn't changed too much for me because I know that I can at least do this little part to make these people little good people. Yeah. And so, um, I'm quite comfortable with that and, you know, yeah, the future is going to be leaders, um, or, or, or people who have, you know, a good person that has like a good perspective on, um, the way that they can interact with the world and I mean the people around them.

Um, and I think that's really important, like, so I'm a, you know, we're both really passionate environmentalists. Yeah. Um, and I think that, you know, people are saying, oh, we didn't want to have kids cause we didn't want to add to the problem. Um, but if the only people having kids were people who didn't give a shit, then it's going to get worse. Um, and so, um, I'm really proud of the current generation of sort of kids coming through what Jen said is or whatever they call it and their passion for, you know, like, um, like pushing back and just saying, no, we're not going to accept, we're not going to accept what you've given us.

We're going to change it. And if you guys don't want to be involved, that's on you, but we're not going to stop it. Um, and some of them, like, I think that's so admirable, um, and so like, I just hope that we can instill a little bit of that in these girls, um, and that they can be, you know, whatever that will be. You don't have to be, you know, Greta Thunberg or whatever, they could just, you know, be, you know, Hazel and Murphy, um, but, but hopefully they can, um, help create a society that starts fixing some of the stuff that we've sort of let happen.

Yeah. And tackling problems right now, um, and even, you know, like on the horizon, um, and you know, can help create a world that we do want to live in and that is, you know, um, provides opportunity for everybody. I knew I'd get an optimistic answer from you too. Yeah. Well, I knew it. I love it. I don't think anyone is going to be like having children are pessimistic about the future of the world. Cause otherwise you wouldn't want to have a kid. Yeah. And I think that when we, you know, try to get pregnant

that, you know, there's a chance that things will be tougher for our kids than they were for us, than they were for the generation before. But then there's also a chance that things are going to be better. It's consistently gotten better over the last few centuries. And the thing that always like perplex me is like the older generations kind of saying, like talking about back in my day, things were worse. It's like, they're almost upset that we're making things better for the future, for future generations. Like, isn't that the whole point of this thing? Maybe it will be those people when we're older, because it seems to be something that's gone through forever.

Like it, like I can't remember who it is, but some famous force, Aristotle, was it Aristotle? Yeah. It was complaining about, you know, kids are lazy, they don't want to learn, they don't spend time researching and reading. I'm like, this is the ancient Greeks, it's like, 2000 years ago, kids invented democracy it's a bit of an interesting, maybe it will be like that, maybe it's just human nature. I'll tell you what it is, and I always try and do this, it's because it's the thing that that next generation picks up and runs with that you didn't see coming.

So like, you know. But also it's because like our brains are wired to forget bad memories much faster than good memories. Hence the good old days, back when, you know, like World War II was going on and, you know, women couldn't work, child mortality rates were soaring, illiteracy was really, you know. We live in the best time that's ever existed and hopefully it gets better. Guys, thank you for coming on, thank you for taking an hour of your day to show me how parenting twins looks like with both of them, they've been bouncing around, you've swapped them about six times.

It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. No worries. Good luck. You won't need it. No. We've got all you guys to lean on.