S1E84 · Jayden Gardner: A Shift in Perspective

Hey Superstars, welcome to another episode of the Virtus Performance Podcast, very, very excited to share today's conversation with you all. Before I do that, please share, subscribe, review, do all that kind of stuff, the more people that can hear this conversation, hopefully the more woke the world can be and all those kind of things. Today's chat was with one of my mentors, Jaden Gardner. This is probably one of the more interesting conversations we've had on the podcast. To give you guys a little bit of insight before we dive in, we've been working with Jaden and

the Alchemy crew for a little over 12 months and in that time we've been able to kind of upskill a lot of the areas of our business and a lot of the areas personally and professionally. I think it was about 12 months ago where Jaden first started talking about Iowasca and his desire to dive in and he decided to go over to Costa Rica a little while ago and have a crack and he came back from that trip and had some pretty hectic stories and he's recently returned from a second trip where he was, well, having a trip, I guess.

So Jaden's had some pretty interesting experiences and today's conversation was all about kind of going into it with an open mind and diving into it and seeing from his experience what he got out of it, what he learnt, how things have changed and how it's kind of shifted his whole perception of himself and how the world works. It was a quality conversation, I really enjoyed it. We were lucky enough to have Coop along for the ride so enjoy the next hour or so of mind blowing stories. Let's do it. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day.

I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. What about doing sailors calls naked? Because I'm like, it's the ultimate informability test, like if you're there naked and you're doing a sailors call, what's the worst that could happen? Like on their end. You accidentally go video call? Yeah, true. Till the laptop little bit too much. But if someone's spraying you on a sails call and you're naked, you're like, you're fucking naked.

You might get kicked out of your co-working space. Yeah, yeah. It's like, fuck. You've got to stop doing sailors calls naked cafes. Yeah, you're breaking your own ice. My old coaching was standing up and using headphones just to get naked. I started already so good. Mate, Jayden, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for having me. It's good to see you boys. Yeah. I figured we probably should catch up. See you later in Sydney. We are. We're off to the Goldie tomorrow. Yeah. Drive off to the Goldie tomorrow and then have a couple of days end of alchemy.

Game over. Yeah. Won't be the end boys. It's been a good run. Has been a good run. How long has it been with you boys? A year? Yeah, a little over 12 months. Yeah. 13 points. Good hustle. Well done. Thanks. First question for you. Gives me our bed in the morning. Not much over the last couple of months. Been off work which is good. It's a dream. Well, it gets me up in the morning. This is an interesting question because it will go quite deep into what we just spoke about before, right? Yeah. So, I've just come off doing a second trip on ayahuasca which is really cool.

I think a lot of people probably know what it is but to cut a long story short on this answer. What gets me up in the morning is a really cool thing that someone said over there is what you do in the ceremonies and when you get hit with what happens on it is you're tuning the guitar and that's all it is. So, it's not a tool that you just use and it's the end, everything's sweet. When you're doing that work, you're tuning the guitar. So, 50% of the job, the other 50% is to come back and play.

In my head, that's what it's going through at the moment, it's like am I playing the guitar of life, quite easy every day and that's my only way that I can assess whether or not I am. So, a great example would be before this trip, I could easily be the kind of person who could flake this off and bring it down to like, "Oh boys, I've been working in the city for 10 hours today. I'll go back home, do the same routine, listen to something on the way home, go to sleep." So now, a lot of my decisions get made of like really every single day are you playing the guitar, are you showing up in that way.

So, yeah, that's something that really over the last couple of weeks has been what gets me up. It's really interesting, have you found that like it's manifesting in certain results or reactions from people in your life, like having showing, making sure that you're showing up all the time? It's only quite fresh, but it's more internal, like it's such a subjective thing, right? So, you know it in yourself. For me, my kind of big blocks have always been health, in a way, very much like we'll spike in, go hand sandwich on that, and all of that.

So for me, like what's playing is am I doing good work, am I, you know, working on my body, and am I doing fun stuff in between. Like did I give today a crack, and to me that's kind of what I see, is like playing the guitar and not buying into like that other bullshit of, "Oh yeah, I'm too tired," or like, "I'll do this." All the kind of things that I have been a shocker for in the past, so yeah. What drew you to IOIC in the first place? Yeah, it was something that I

heard, I've been researching it and stuff for years, years on end, and I actually thought about this when I was overseas, I'm like, "How did this all actually pan out?" Because I think it is something that calls people, and I don't even want to be that person who's like a preacher on it, to be like, "You should go do this." Because not everyone should. Yeah. I definitely think it's something that gets called to you. I think where I first kind of heard from it was around three or four years ago. So I did my first one about a year ago, and then I've done, I've sat eight times.

And I was listening to, I think it was a podcast, so I was listening to something on YouTube, and at that time in life, I was working ridiculous hours as a personal trainer. I'm talking 50 hours on floor, training people, doing all the marketing. Ain't nobody wants to do that. I was doing all the sales, like crazy. And so what I would do is I was in a really bad place health-wise as well, smoking ciggies, whatever. So my days really consisted of waking up super early, living off coffee, training people until I pass out, have a cigarette, go across and get something from the server, do it again, repeat.

So I went through this cycle of just living off that adrenaline, and I heard this woman speak about frequencies and vibrations in people. She's like, if you look at people from a vibrational state, a lot of people can be walking around dead. And I was like, fuck, I'm not at that stage, but in a way, I'm very close to that. And then they're talking about how plant meds and stuff like that can bring that out of you and like bring it up, you know, the fastest way of how in meditation they say it brings up your vibrations.

And I think that's where it really stuck with me at the start. I was like, I need something fast to get me out of this kind of hamster wheel that I'm on of just shit. Yeah, so did that, then I watched this awesome documentary called The Reality of Truth. It's absolutely killer, which then drove me to this place with me where I did my first one. How? Like from that kind of moment of realisation about the vibrations to like when you sat down and took the drink, how long was it? That would have been two years.

Was it hard to actually make the decision to go and do it? Obviously we haven't experienced it, but it's, from what I understand and know about it, it's pretty like an intensive thing to fully commit to doing it. Yeah, 100%. It's one of the most, it is the most intense thing you can do, I personally think. And it's something that you've got to treat with respect as well. So yeah, there is prep that goes into it, there's a shit tonne of nerves, like I still get scared before I do it because there is no, there is no one way to it.

If we all smashed a bottle of vodka right now, it would all kind of have the same experiences in a way. The three of us did ayahuasca right now, we could totally go different ways. So you have that nerve of the unknown and that's the kind of thrill of it as well, is like you fully go into the deepest parts of consciousness, if you want to. So yeah, I say when I landed in Costa Rica, when I did my first one, there were a lot of nerves. There were a lot of nerves as well because I didn't want to fully go through a massive change.

And I don't think many people do. And so I was a little bit scared of like, do I drink this stuff and then I cook it and I become one of those like, people that are just, you know, off of the fairies, off of the fairies. Yeah. And I was like, that could be a huge reality. And at one point in the first night I actually thought I was, because everything changes, the visions, whatnot, I was like, maybe this is life now, this is how I see everything. I'm like, this is going to be tough. It took a while to adjust to this.

Yeah, fully. That's kind of how I got drawn into it. That's cool. Well, I'm sure we'll dive into like the actual experience and like what it was like being there and stuff. But like coming back into normality in the real world and stuff, and I think we might have had a mastermind like maybe a month afterwards or something and I remember sitting there listening to you talk about it and like one of the first things you said was like, I'm going back and doing it again. What was like, was that decision kind of made for you?

Or had you already made that decision before you left? No, not at all. Not at all. Before I went, I thought it'd be something that I'd do and kind of tick off the bucket list. Like, yeah, you know, I can talk about it. I've done that for you. The amazing effects it has on everything - body, you know, I healed an injury, which I'd had for two years, which is crazy. Yeah. Because part of what it does is it works for your body and then brings up the traumas and then releases them. You do that through purging, crying, pissing, shitting, like it doesn't sound amazing and it sucks in those parts.

But yeah, it's quite interesting to think about how many like little traumas you go through in your life that are such on a subconscious level that you don't think about, but everyone has them and then you get hit with them and the after feeling of that is crazy. And I think it's in that book that you're reading, Ikkigai, or one of those kind of Japanese books where they talk about the Japanese do this, not with the plant meds, but something else in their life where they'll do one thing per year that changes the next 365. So it's like one really intense, difficult, physical thing where they might like, there's like a 60% chance they're going to fail.

Yeah. Who is it talks about it? Jesse Itzler talks about it. Cool. Yeah. And it's just like, okay, you got to find that one thing that like completely goes, whoa, I've got to make sure I maximize the next 365 days of my life. And then the year later, they do another one. Something different. Jesse Yeah. Yeah. And for me, a really good way to explain it is it's just the biggest awareness tool. Like that's all it is. So when you go and see it and you get hit with the awareness and you're going to hate

this comment like it, I won't read any kind of self-help books or anything anymore because it is the greatest self-help podcast because it's such a... Jesse It's saved me a lot of time. Jesse Seriously. And you get hit with your own truth and like what serves you in your life and what doesn't and it just, it gives you that, which is an intense thing. And that's something in a way that I fucked up the first time when I did it was because I didn't listen to those signals and you know, external things that were out of my control.

Like five of those things that it told me happened in the first week that I got back. And I remember sitting there on a Saturday night and messaging Drew and just going, dude, I've just realized that everything had happened. Which was, sorry, wasn't completely out of my control, but yeah, it was, it was wild. So now from doing it, you're like, cool, okay, that doesn't serve me. I need more of that in my life. A great example in my case was I was shirtless holding onto my skin like my fat boy was crying and going like, this isn't you.

Jesse Yeah, wow. Jesse And so, look, that's the motivation to get yourself trained. I've been training every day, every day since. Yeah. But that's some of the things that can happen on it is, you know, if you can read a book on how to get a six pack or you could fat chain yourself on it, on psychedelic and really go deep. Jesse Look, we're not recommending it, but it might work. Jesse Yeah, yeah. Still with training first. So stuff like that is where you just really go deep in like, okay, integrating back into the real world.

Yeah, you're not going to forget that in my own way, you yourself are against nothing else but your own mind and the medicine going like, what is this, like, something that you kind of know deep down when your health gets a bit off, off track, yeah, but to really get that awareness and intensity is something that you go, okay, cool. Jesse From a belief system point of view, what were the fundamental shifts you felt over the couple months afterwards? Jesse Oh, good question. There's a lot of beliefs that are still hard to, like, hard to swallow.

I'm not a religious person, probably one of the first people from it. But I saw and was speaking to Jesus in my last one. So that, like, things like that are quite intense to kind of have that belief system change and whatnot. My biggest belief system from this is I truly believe that it will change the world. And so when I was on one of the plants, because I needed seven, I need seven different types of stuff over there ranging from the ayahuasca to putting eye drops in your eye that they call the, what they call them, the drops in the sun, basically just meant battery acid getting thrown in your eyes.

Jesse Oh, yeah. Jesus. Jesse Yeah, so that was intense. But when I was on the San Pedro, that was one of the big things that came up. It was like, spread this message within reason, you know, doing podcasts like this, talking to people, not, you know, standing at the front of town hall with a big sign. So that's the important thing, right, is like having that conversation and people that want to listen, listen, the people that don't want to listen can, you know, yeah, fully. And that's what they talk about a lot when you do

it is like, that's how the ayahuasca still works in real life, like someone drinking and channel through and look, if one person listens to this and takes action, that's cool. If one person listens to this and goes like, hey, maybe I'm not playing the guitar, and goes and takes action, then that in itself is the medicine doing the work, which is a really, really like deep concept that they spoke about, but I believe it. So that's probably one of the biggest belief systems. The other one is, and this is would be hard to hear, and

we spoke about before was getting told that everything's already happened, like your path is already set, you know, having a spirit laugh at me, going like, you know everything's, it is what it is. Yeah, that's a hard one to digest, because like, everything, and like, we've had the free will discussion a couple of times, like on here, like our perception of it and all that kind of stuff. One of the things that I'm talking to Logan about it is that like, even if 99% is decided for you, if there's that 1%, then it doesn't matter, because, you know, at least you can alter change some.

Oh, for sure. And that's, I think that's kind of where, you know, everything's set, yeah sure, but whether you work hard or don't work hard or put in or whatever, it's still going to alter the result. Yeah, definitely. A good way for me to look at it would be, trust the process, it's probably a better way to do it. Not like, hey, everything's set, so sit around, you know, fiddle with your thumbs, and things will fall into place. It was more a fact of like, saying, actually a better way to look at it is like, be present in the moment.

I think that's the kind of message it was saying, like, you can like rattle on the path, or like think about the future, or whatever, like it's already, that path is kind of there, so just focus on right now, because, you know, it is a bit of an illusion, which is, there's probably a belief that I've, not a belief, but a pattern that I've come back into a lot more now is like, not worrying about the future, like still going for it, like still wanting whatever that is. Whatever happens, happens. But being more accepting and just being like, cool, what can I do right now, yeah, that's all that matters.

It's more like the difference between, like, ambition, and, like, fear of what's coming next. Yeah. And like, something we spoke about on the weekend at the summit was, like, things that are in your control and things that are out of your control, like if you trust the process, and like, work on, focus on the things that are in your control, then you'll influence the outcome. Sure. 100%. The outcome is, you can't decide the outcome, whatever happens, whatever it ends up, is where it will end up. Yeah, because at one point, in one of the ceremonies I was at, like, that all got taken away from me.

Like, I blew reality, I had no idea who I was, time-space, I've said to you guys before, and I think that was a great lesson to be like, well, if this is eternity, or whatever it is, like, this is now, which is a really cool thing to do, I think, you know, to pull back all those curtains and be in that space at one point where your job title, who you are, your past, who you think you are, what others may think of you, like, that just gets wiped away. Yeah. And you just have this deep conversation with yourself and multidimensional animals, and snakes, and...

Well, yeah, I kind of selfishly, like, I want, I know you've told us this story, but obviously the listeners haven't heard it, tell us about the first, the first experience, and like, go as deep and as many animals as you want, because I loved it. The first experience was the most chilled one, this last one I turned into every animal in the animal plant. I want to hear the fucking snake story, and the surgery on yourself. Yeah, fully. Fill us in. Before you get stuck in that, can you tell us quickly about what your preparation's like before you dive into these experiences?

Yeah. So what you want to do when you come into, depends what you're doing, you know, if people are on any kind of meds for depressions or anything like that, they say, get off them, I think it's about 30 or 60 days, so you want to be as clean as you can coming into it. So it's staying away from red meat, because like the belief system in that is you get the fear of the animals, and that comes up in your trip, so you can have chicken, they believe like chicken doesn't, they don't feel fear before they get their heads cut off.

Staying away from any kind of like coke or at least the drugs, if that's your thing. A funny one is you got to stay away from sex a week coming into it, because the energies can hide it, yeah, a week, 10 days, yeah, that one was one of the easiest, which is, you know, it's interesting because it can come off your city, especially if you're sitting in someone with a ceremony that you've been with recently, you can really go at each other on that. So the prep is just to be as clean as you can. It's a lot of stuff, I avoid a lot of social media and news and stuff like that coming into it.

Just to be as clean as you can, rather than worry about everything else. Yeah, like the external noise or all the shit that's happening in the world, because like I said, it's an awareness thing, so if you're seen and taken in a lot of like low vibration stuff, that can screw you around, because first one I did, it was probably the wrong time of the year for me to book because it was on New Year's Day, so myself and my mate being in LA the week before, we weren't the cleanest that we've ever been coming

into it, and it really took me the first night, what kind of happens in it is, you've got to be clean to enter the spiritual world on it, right, so I was drinking away on the first night and just spewing and seeing nothing, I was like, what the hell, this is G up, what's going on, flying all the way to Costa Rica, but the more that I understood it in process, it was like purging for me and cleaning because I wasn't right to go through there, so perhaps not too hard for me, I don't really

eat that much red meat, as it is, it's more, because this thing like milk and aged cheese and whatnot, there's a bit of a diet, but that's also very like up for debate with a few people. So the snake, yeah, this is an interesting one because also my perception of the snake story has changed since the second line, so what happened was, there's only four things that can really happen in a trip, is you get this thing called Pinta, which are the visions, like the intense visions, kind of like what's happening on your laptop right

now, oh hello, it's taken me back, so Pinta, that's where you get the visions and all the kind of stuff that happens within that, your second thing that can happen on medicine is you get the consult where you will see some kind of, you know, whether it be an animal, a spirit, a woman, whoever it is, and you actually have this consult with this person where you ask questions and you get responses, and trust me, you've got to ask real questions, like I was asking very materialistic shit questions at one point, and I was getting

thrown around, like I was getting slapped basically, like someone was slapping my face, I was like okay, I need to go deeper on this stuff. You can get absolutely nothing, which is a funny one, it's called NIDA, and so when that happens, the belief is that the ancestors and the healers and the medicine that's doing the work is doing such an intense session on you that you wouldn't be able to handle it in the real world, which is very interesting to see when you might have, you know, a small woman go up and drink three

cups and sit there in complete peace and just watch guys and girls vomit and spewing shit everywhere, or in one case on the ones I was at, a guy who would have been, you know, 110 kilos, big unit, take one cup and had to get dragged out of the room because he was just spewing so much everywhere and going crazy, so what happens is as well, when you're in that space, you stay in the space, because everyone plays a role, you can't, you know, take them and someone goes out and hangs on their hand and goes to their own room.

- So many different energies. - The energies do it, and the medicine plays its own roles within it, which is crazy, you could, you know, if you were sitting there with 20 people, and in the morning you go, hey, who got, you know, the sacred surgery or this or this, it's evenly split, which is nuts. - Yeah. - And yeah, the other one is the sacred surgery, which I got heavily, and what that is, it's funny because it happened to Gary from Zelos as well, one of the guys that we worked with at Acme went

over and tried it, and he got this sacred surgery as well, which was a good story, but yeah, what happened with me was I'd been holding onto a shoulder injury for, I'd say two years, at least two years, and it was an overuse injury, it was a bit of bursitis, you know, it wasn't just an innocent kind of thing that happened to me, and when I went to Costa Rica, I had no intention at all about going there and having anything to do with my shoulder, I went there more for the kind of experience, heard

a lot about it, and second night, I'm sitting there, and then all of a sudden, hundreds, maybe thousands of snakes come up to my face and start talking to me, and asking me a question of, hey, do I, do I want my shoulder to get fixed, and of course I'm going, yes. - Is this like, you're sitting there, eyes open, seeing them, or is it more like eyes, so eyes open, eyes open, yeah, so that's the cool thing about it is, yes, you can open your eyes a lot of the time, and you'll still get

that to a level, close your eyes, and you go to a whole different place most of the time, but it kind of plays that role with you as well, you don't have much control over that, it'll kind of play in and out, and so what's happened is I've seen all these snakes, they've asked me if I wanted to fix my shoulder, I said, yes, and before that happened, they said to me, in order for me to fix your shoulder, you first need to heal the room, it's like, oh, okay, here we go, yeah, so I,

in my body, I turned into a snake, and so I'm slithering around, I'm moving my hands, and I'm fully in belief now that I'm a snake, and I hit the floor and I start rolling around and slithering to people within the ceremony, and would sit at the end of their bed, and start snaking out, and every single time that I did that, they're laying down, eyes closed, they would sit up and purge, and I was energetically seeing all this trauma and throwing it out of my body, it was intense, and the shaman came up to

me at one point and he said to me, he's like, I know what's going on at the moment, and he said, you know, you're about to go through hell, but just know that you're doing it for the room and this is a good thing, and it was some of the toughest, I'd say, hour and a half, two hours of my life, just, you know, hairs out, spews everywhere, I'm just taking in all this intense energy and then vomiting it out into a bucket, like just consistently going, just rolling on my side, just going for it,

the cool thing was after that, I went back to my bed and just kind of sat there in my own stillness as one arm was going crazy, my bad arm, and it was just flying around, now you guys can't see this on the podcast, but it was just going in directions that my shoulder hadn't been in in years, and what I was processing, what was happening was saying, like, hey, this is how much movement you haven't had in two years from being in stillness because I wasn't using it or wasn't lifting weights, wasn't doing anything,

and it was throwing it, and it was going crazy, and as it was happening, it kept saying to me, like, we're about to tell you what this injury is, and so I'm seeing snakes getting wrapped around my fibres or this kind of shit, and then a big vision came up and was saying that you've been holding onto this injury for years because in a past life, when I was 15, 16, 17, I was a semi-professional tennis player, and tennis is a crazy expensive sport, and as soon as I realised when I was 17, I think

it was about 16, that how much money my parents were spending on me for tennis for a sport that I wasn't going to pursue, I quit it, and in this trip it was saying I'd been holding onto this injury for years as shame and guilt for how much time and money my parents invested for me, and I got to quite a good stage in the tennis, and then I just dropped it, and so as soon as I accepted that, then I started vomiting up shame and guilt, which is a really weird thing to explain, but

I was just purging and crying and just releasing all this stuff, and it's like, you can stop hanging onto that now, it doesn't serve you, like, they don't give a fuck, they're not sitting back going, like, I can't believe, you know, all these years, like, I can't believe he stopped playing tennis after all that money, but it was like the story I was telling myself, and this is what's interesting about what we spoke about before, like, those unconscious traumas that you take on, that you don't know on a conscious level, like, never in a million

years since I'm 17, really, have I thought, like, oh, you know, I feel guilty for how much money they spent, or sitting there at my shoulder going, oh, this will fix once I get that shame and guilt out, and it did, and it was just like, it's a really shit thing in a way, because it's such a subjective split test, I've talked to, obviously, been in the gym industry, talked to a lot of physios and kaios about this, very split down the middle, obviously, and like, the tough thing is, and it doesn't really affect me

because it's my own experience in a way, is it's such a pain test, like, give me, you know, what was it before and what was it after, like, I don't have, for me, it's like, I went from not being able to do anything overhead to doing it pain-free, which I think is the test, but for me, it went from, I'd say, about high seven, eight pain to zero overnight, which is insane. - That's one of the things, like, from a SNC, exercise science point of view, and from a rehab point of view, we can get

caught up in the, oh, no, it shouldn't work like that, or it shouldn't happen like that, but if you've gone from a seven to a zero, something's happened, and if it works, and it has worked, then play on. - It's a fairly, probably expensive mode of rehab, but, hey. - Well, it's cheaper than me doing the two years, but in saying that, like, I saw awesome physios and chias, and there's nothing against that, like, it's not, that doesn't work. - Well, that's the thing, yeah. - But I now have a belief system in, like, direct

pain and then indirect pain of, and I think I heard, I think it was Eugene or one of the boys on the Mind Muscle Project talk about this, when they're talking about people with back problems and talking about how some people can have slipped discs and have zero pain, and then other people don't and have heaps of pain, it's like this mind muscle kind of connection of, oh, I've got a lot of, I've got a sore back today, and then you buy into that over time, and create a slip. - You're the guy with the sore back.

- Yeah, whereas, you know, you could be walking around with a slipped disc at the moment and be pain free because of that mind muscle thing, and yeah, when I heard that podcast, I was like, that's probably the closest thing I'm getting to that description of what was going on with me, because I still obviously believe that injuries are injuries and direct suffering. - But we have no idea, like, on a, from a level of understanding for how a conscious to subconscious works, we have no idea how that interacts with our body, really, like, we've

got 2% understanding, and like, I have always been, and this is kind of the dogma that I kind of had, was that, it's science is science, what we can prove, we can prove, that's the way things work, like, the whole, like, any faith system's ridiculous, all that kind of, like, that was my belief system for a long period of time, and now, like, over the last couple of years, I've been, not, like, moving away from it, I still die back there sometimes, but reading books and, like, biology of belief and stuff like that, and having

conversations of, like, this, you start to realize that we've got no fucking clue what's happening, and, like, we are just, everyone's just trying to figure it out, and if something works, then, whether it's placebo, whether it's the snake spirit, whether it's just good rehab, it doesn't fucking matter, like, if we can, like, perfect world, we can bottle it, identify what it is, and then repeat it, but, you know, I think we get stuck in the needing to understand too often. - And look, I still very much am in the rehab world, in that space, like,

I, since coming back from that first time I fixed my injury, I've been training twice as hard on rehab stuff, because I'm, like, I now have a pain-free-- - Excuse me, capacity to do it. - Yeah, and I've got a pain-free way to do it, I'm now not gonna go crazy and try and get the biggest chest in Australia and fucking not use my back, coming from, like, probably what started the overuse or whatever it was, but the funny thing was, second time I went back this time in the U.S., I went deeper in terms

of wanting to go more into the realm of the consciousness, and I remember sitting there in one of the ceremonies, and one of the shamans said to me, he said, "Jaden, are you healthy?" And I said yes, and I kind of walked back to my bed, and was like, that was somewhat of a little bit of a lie, because I've had this shoulder, ah, not shoulder, this neck kind of injury that has kind of been playing with me for the last, you know, three to six months, especially on, like, ring dips and stuff like that,

like, it's just this kind of tension thing that can hold onto me a bit, and as soon as it kicked in on the first night, it threw me on my stomach, and was like, you can't lie to me, and it went through my body and just kind of shook my body crazy, and was pushing down on my neck and doing all this stuff, and it fixed my neck, and I was like, fuck, here we go again, round two. So yeah, obviously I'm not simply right in the right setting, the right injury, it can do some pretty wild things all in mind.

In terms of that, diving into that consciousness and the subconsciousness, it's obviously really hard to, like, articulate how it felt and what you thought, and then kind of, like, explain it to other people, what's your, just have a crack, like, what's your best explanation as to, like, what it feels like to be under, or on it, or whatever? Yeah, yeah, sure. I think the best thing to say before you say this as well, because there's probably people who have listened to this and have done it as well, and I think the one thing that you

need to take in respect with it is, no one is further along it, or like, at the start, like, I'm no better than someone who's only done it once, or like, I don't see someone who's sat 50 times, like, there now, like, no one's the expert on it, it's such a subjective thing, like, my mission with it is just to kind of talk about it, to share an experience, but it's not like, hey, this is what will happen, because, like, I've done it, you know? And one of the shamans did a really cool post about

this, it's like, every single experience is so subjective and so different, but my best crack at it is, and especially from the last one I did, the last one I did was very, like, it was a strong, strong batch, and not saying this from an ego place, but most people do about two to three cups over two days, and I went for it and did ten, so I absolutely, like, went there with the intention of taking to the deepest part of it. And the best way to explain it would be, you absolutely lose everything. You have no control.

You have no control of what you see, what your thoughts are, you go in with intentions, which is cool, and most people get their intentions, you sit with the right person, it's, you know, if anyone out there has probably dabbled in acid or mushrooms or some kind of those psychedelics, the thing is, you see a lot with your eyes on that, so you can sit here and be like, oh yeah, that picture looks cool, you know, you know that it's just your visuals doing this. When you're in the deepness of the ayahuasca, you're in your

own world, and you're kind of seen through your third eye, like, your third eye opens and you get put into a new world, which can be scary, so me, on my personal experiences, I see a lot of visions and I go into, like, backing time, or like, I'm speaking with aliens, or turning me, sorry, the biggest thing that I do is I shape-shift, so I turn into animals, turn into elephants, turn into snakes, turn into tadpoles, I go through the whole process. So, yeah, I think, like I said, it's a massive awareness tool and everyone's different, everyone's different.

Yeah, it very much comes down to, and this is a big thing as well, it really comes down to who's running it, like, who's been with the medicine, what's their background, and I learned that, like, the good way I would sit in with the guy who I sat with last title, who I'd heard so much about, and I'd done some other ones, which I thought were, they were all legit, right, but this was the Superbowl, and having a shaman that does intense healings, can hold a room, you know, he's so deep in the medicine that

he knows when a woman gets a period, because it hurts him, and it happened in one of our ceremonies, he kind of walked out just holding onto himself like he'd been shot, and had to move that woman upstairs, so if you find someone like that, then, yeah, but it's just a reset, it's tuning the guitar, it's getting everything served to you, good and bad, to accept it, you know, the stuff that you don't want to see will come up, you'll get hit with that, you'll go through pain, you'll spew it out, you'll cry out, you'll

piss it out, whatever, but then on the other side of that, you can end up in the most euphoric, utopia place that you just, the best description would be, if there was a heaven, you can end up there, and you just sit back, and you don't think about Virtus, you don't think about this, you just, this grand party of life, you'll think a lot about, like, the people close to you, but you don't think about, like, fuck, what am I gonna do, you know, I wonder if work's going okay, because you just get blown out

of that, you get past that level, and way, way deeper into the unknown, into a dream state, that's the best way for me to explain it, it's like, being in an intense dream that you're, can't, you know, awake to, yeah. - How did you find, like, surrender to it, 'cause I can imagine there being a certain amount of resistance, like, going into it. - Sure, I had that happen to me when I went and saw Tyta, because I'd, because I'd built it up so much, it kind of slaps, yeah, and so what happens is, a

lot of the times when you want something, it won't give you that, so if you go in and you're like, I wanna have intense visuals, I wanna have this, I wanna have this, you might get absolutely nothing, and it's kind of like, will give you a lesson in that, and so, going back to this one, like, the surrender, you just get to a point where you can't hold on anymore, like, the more that you try and fight it, the more that you'll get kicked around, so it's like, okay, I have to accept this, but inside

the journey as well, there are kind of paths that you can go, you can see, like, the dark side and the fucking rainbows, and it's your decision which one you wanna take, and doing it well is going into the darkness, because that's where the growth comes from. You could sit there if you wanted to, in a way, and just kind of be in happy land, but then you're wasting the experience, so it's like taking you to hell to see heaven, which is interesting throughout the process as well, you know, you're sitting there for 12 hours,

and at one point you just go, this is, this is mental, this is absolutely mental, everyone's losing their shit, why would you put yourself through this, why would anyone put yourself through this, and then you come to the morning, and everyone's buzzing, and glowing, and-- - Yeah, so you get to kind of see both ends, which is probably important, right? - Yeah, you've gotta, it takes all that stuff out of you, brings it to the surface, makes you deal with it, something that you don't do in your everyday life, you know, there's something that's going

on right now, you can easily pull out your phone, get distracted, and be like, nope, I'm dealing with that, I'm not dealing with that, but it's always gonna come back up eventually, it will come back up, and it's a good way to be dealt with it when it's just you and yourself, and going like, cool, okay, if this comes up, I've gotta deal with it, it's gonna fucking suck, but it's gonna be an awesome lesson. - Do you record your perception of the experiences, like write it down, or do a voice note, or something? -

Yeah, so one of the ones I did over there, which was really cool, we did San Pedro the next day, which is, you know, it's a heart-opening plan med, and it's kind of, it openly lets you talk, and so you write a lot of things down. I, on my first trip, probably would've liked to write a few more things down, but then I also think half that experience, there was a lot of like, how cool was this thing that I did? Well, the second time I went around, and after I did my first ceremony, went

back to it, and sat with people that are deep in it, and really, really respect it, I'm like, no, this is a tool, this is legit, this is something that needs to be taken with the utmost respect, and so from that, I had such insane experiences on that, that you would never forget, and I think a great example of this, and it's funny, coming straight after Logan, talking about truth was, one of the biggest things that hit me on that first night was, I got up and tried to take a piss, and I got there,

which was a struggle, I don't know how I got there, I was dragging myself to actually find that, and then as I came out to get back in the room, there was a mat on the floor, which had a circle inside it, and I just got dragged into that thing for two hours, and it was the circle of truth, and so every time I would step in it, which it would like, forcefully make me do, I would just get hit with truth bombs about myself, and vomit them up, so intense, I'm sure there's a lot

of what happens in the night that you don't remember, like, beyond probably two or three days, but that's the kind of space in between, the intensity of what you need to know, which is, yeah, a lot of people do journal, for me, I'm like, no, I want to process it, because the thing is, I'm still processing now, you know, I'm still on the diet, I'm still going through it, and that happens for a long time, so yeah, I think you could write it down, you could write for yourself, but now I'm kind of more set

on, like, cool, process it, take it in, this is what I'm going to do in my life now, this isn't what I'm going to do, and you kind of go on your way there. Yeah, that's cool. Was it hard to start taking actions straight after, like, once you've processed it, once you've digested everything that's come to the surface, like, we're talking about, like, the path is already laid out for you, but, are there things that you have been compelled to do, or, like, that you found difficult to execute? This time around, no, because a lot

of what I got slapped with was just my own health, so that hasn't been a tough one to do, because going through the whole fat shame yourself thing, like, that's a super easy action item to ask for me, like, that was a big takeaway for my trip, you know, I've got my 10 year reunion coming up in a month and a bit, and my role would have been to go there and get fucked up for two days, because that's kind of who I am and what I do, and it was said to me, it's like,

you're making a deal with me, like, you're not going, and you're not doing that, so a lot of things that happen like that, I'm like, you know what, I actually feel more balanced and in touch with myself knowing that, because it was, like, the old role that I would have played, so a lot of kind of, going back to your question, like, processing things like that, it's not tough, but it's just different, it's different from people who probably I went to school with, like, when they know that I'm not going and staying at home, and say, well, but that's cool, that's where the growth comes in, and that's where some of the big slaps and hugs come in.

Yeah, probably gives you more, I guess, ownership, because you can choose and decide, and I guess old Jane might have gone, you know, I'm going to go and get pissed two days and, you know, I'm probably not going to feel great about myself afterwards, but you, Jane, can be like, cool, I know where I'm at. Yeah, and it's a massive acceptance, which is cool, like, I'm not dwelling on her, I'm actually, like, super detached from it, I'm not stoked, I'm not unstoked, it is, and I think that's a lot of the stuff that comes from

it, it's just like, acceptance, I'm like, okay, cool, I get it, and hence why, you know, I'm going to do this now for the rest of my life, at least once a year, at least once a year, just to kind of fine tune it again, because every time you go back, there's something new, and it's like, cool, and I kind of had that come down from the last one, I reckon at about, like, the October, November, March, I did start going back to some old patterns, so it was great that I went back there, and

it's like, okay, now I'll get it, like, you'll ride out this height for a while, you'll do, like, the tuning thing will kind of go past, and if you don't play, you don't do the other work, then you're the same person, yeah, eight months down the track. Well, it's not like it gives you the keys to the city and everything's sweet, right, it just gives you that, like, little reminder slash here's a couple of tools to start changing things, and here's a slight shift in mindset, but if you decide to not do these things, you

just can go back to the thing, yeah, it's like any kind of habit, yeah, right, but the cool thing about this habit is it's not controlled by anyone but yourself, you know, no one is pushing it on you, like, hey, walk, you should really, you know, get back into your training, or you should be doing this and this because it's someone else's beliefs pushed on you, which only lasts as long as it lasts, so if you have your own beliefs slapped on you, it's like, cool, yeah, I get it, yeah, the shaman took a liking

to you this time, right, yeah, he did, so this is wild, and this is, this is just the power of how crazy this can all get, so, I'll tell you a story, I won't go for too long, love it, yeah, we got time, so to kind of frame out how this one went is I did four nights, so split over two ceremonies, one Saturday Sunday, took a week off, did another Saturday Sunday, first one I did with these two women shaman, who I've met before, they're awesome, and the role of that one was kind of

going into the feminine Peru brew that those women do, which was really cool, and then I had a week until I saw a tighter, who was the big masculine one that I'd heard a lot about, so this is kind of when it all changed for me, right, when I understood, okay, there is like a level above, and people are kind of playing on this level of consciousness that you don't see in everyday life, right, and going back to that story that I was telling you about, before we'd been stuck in that circle of truth, I

was fully stuck, I wasn't coming out of it, and after it was turning into a reality, like, into the truth, and I was just so over, just getting slapped in that and vomiting, I was like, oh, can someone just help me? I couldn't even yell out to anyone because I was so deep, deep in my journey, it then turned into hell, and so this circle was hell, and it was dragging me into it, and at that time I'm like, oh, I'm dying, I'm like, this is it, I'm getting taken away, this is hell, this sucks,

like, this is really, I started like shaking and crying, I'm like, I don't want to go yet, like, I don't want to go yet, just let me see it through, I don't want to go yet, and I'm sitting there, and I'm just going, please, like, don't, don't let me die this way, this sucks, and then as soon as that happens, this vision comes into my, into where I'm at, and it's tighter, and it's the shaman that I'm seeing the next weekend, and I obviously hadn't met him before, but I knew what he looked like, I'd

seen photos, all that kind of stuff, and then, I'm in this bathroom having this conversation with Dieter, and I'm going, I need help, he's like, good, he's like, I'm seeing you next weekend, he's like, I'm not gonna be easy on you, he's like, I'm gonna be stern, he's like, I'm gonna take you on, he's like, be prepared, he's like, I can help you get out of this, like, out of the hell trip that I was in, I was like, yeah, cool, he's like, I need you to give me something, though, he's like, if you wanna

get out of this, I need you to give me something, and so I'm sitting there, I'm like, okay, okay, I'm leaning over the bench at this time, I'm talking to him, and I'm like, actually having a conversation now, I'm like, okay, okay, okay, I'm saying that out loud, and then, one of the craziest things that will ever happen is, my hand started shaking in front of my face, and it's just shaking and shaking and shaking, and it gets drawn closer and closer to my body, and then it touches my heart, and then my heart comes

out of my chest, and it shakes, and it comes out, and I'm still shaking away, and then I kind of like, give it to him, and as soon as I gave it to him, I snapped out of it, I snapped out of the hellhole, and I walked back to my bed, and just kind of like, laid there, and just like, sunken in for a while, and sobered up for a little bit, right, and so that, that was a thing in itself, right, and that happened, did another ceremony the night after, and then the next week,

I went and saw Tyler, which was, which was awesome, and one of the things that happened was, I didn't tell him at that point what had happened the week before, because I didn't want that to play into it, like if that was just like a weird kind of coincidence, like, thing, I didn't want to be like, hey dude, just letting you know, you've got my heart, like, whatever, and so, the first night, I really set myself the intention of drinking as much as possible, to have an ego death, blow myself out, like really, if you're

going to go for it, how far can you, you do it, not from like, I want to be a loose unit, like come back, tell everyone out, I'm like, no, you've come all the way to see this person, this guy's the real deal, which he is, totally believe that, and so I did the five cups, blew myself out of reality, had the biggest fit in front of everyone, but everyone's going crazy, and what happens when you sit there is, the next morning, you can't let anything leave the room, so if you have a question, or

you have a concern, or you want to do something, you've got to speak with the person who serves you, right, you can't go back, you know, come back to Sydney, and be like, hey man, can I talk to someone about it, so I said to Tyto, I was like, obviously last night I went for it, did five cups, everyone knows what happened, had a massive blowout, should I aim for that again tonight, or is there balance, like, should I just have one cup an hour, like, you really went for it last night, just chill tonight

and do it, and he only speaks Spanish, so he's got his interpreter there, Carlos, and Carlos starts speaking in Spanish to Tyto, and then he laughs, and he goes, Jaden, last night was just the rehearsal, he goes, tonight is the grand party, tonight is going to be much more intense than last night, and I'd blown it, then I thought, at one point I was like, I've died, ambulance are in here, they're dragging me out, it's going to be on the news, I die, I wascathing, I'm in eternity, I believed that for a long time in

that trip, so me sitting there going like, fuck, that was the first one, and so what he said to me, he's like, tonight I want you to listen, listen to the medicine, the medicine will tell you how much you need to drink, ok cool, so I go and I do one cup, and I go back, and I'm laying there for about 20, 25 minutes, and it hasn't really hit me, and I was like, ok cool, I'm going to go for it again tonight, this is a sign, I'm going to go, I'm going to go crazy,

and as soon as that thought leaves my mind, I start purging, and I can't get it out of my throat, so at that time, it wasn't like a vision, or it wasn't like, you weren't hallucinating, I was literally choking on my own vomit, and I couldn't swallow it, I couldn't vomit it out, and so I'm there going, I'm fucking dying, the most gruesome death in the world, I would not wish I was my worst enemy, it was by far the most horrific feeling, slow death kind of thing that I could imagine, and so luckily enough,

I've been able to roll over and crawl to one of the healers there, and at this time, at this stage I'm crying, and I grab him and I bring him in close, I'm like Carlos, I don't want to die this way, this is gruesome, please don't let me die choking on my own vomit, and then all the healers come over, and they start pushing me down, and kind of getting myself over, and they're just going, just breathe, just breathe, and I'm going, just breathe, just breathe, just breathe, and then I lose control, vomit, piss, everything

just starts coming out of me, and my body goes into a fit, so I have this intense, intense episode, and everyone's still in silence at this point, so for the first couple of hours, everyone's in silence, and you just kind of process, right? And so I've had this fit, spewed everything, hit the deck, and then I pass out, and as soon as I come out of that, and come back into the space, everything changed in that ceremony, and I started communicating with Tyta, in the AOL skirt, so he sits in a separate room right next

to me, and he just sits there most of the night, and just blesses the medicine, talks into the medicine, sings like the Icarus into the medicine, you'll come in and get healings off him, you'll come drink when he's in there, but he stays in there to control the medicine, right? And this is by far the most intense thing that has ever happened to me, and there's been a few things in my life, the AWASCA started talking through me, and I started verbally speaking in a different voice, and so after I've passed out in front of

everyone, I sit up and I start going, Tyta, Tyta, and he's grunting back at me, and I'm going in this weird voice that I've just picked up, and he's going, Tyta, bring me more medicine, Tyta, and so I've just lost my shit in front of everyone, and I'm asking to drink more, but it's not me, I'm asking for it, and I'm there, I'm going Tyta, thank you for this gift Tyta, thank you, this is not for me Tyta, this is for all of us Tyta, we are all one, I would drink for all of us

Tyta, thank you, and this is happening, and in my head I'm like, what the fuck is going on, what's coming out of my mouth, I'm basically throwing myself on the bus and I'm taking the hit for the whole room, I'm going to drink all the AWASCA under the sun, and it's going, and I'm having this really intense conversation with him, and people are sitting up and they're like, what the hell is going on, and I'm just going Tyta, Tyta, Tyta, and then they're like, let me help you back to your bed, and I was like,

no, I will crawl, and I'm having these like servant things, I'm like, I will crawl, I will crawl for Tyta, I will crawl, and I'm dragging myself across the floor, I get myself into the bed, and from that point, it really understood with me what it meant by listen to the medicine, and so I went back and I did another five cups, another four, so I did four or five in Tyta, but as the whole experience was going through, I was just connected to him, there was nothing else, there was no like, you know, any

kind of consults or whatever, it was like I was playing on this level with him that was going at each other, and so when I go in to get my, and throughout the night I'm just like yelling at him at random points, just going Tyta, Tyta, and it's all happening, and then I go into the healing room, and as you go in there, they use these tools like agua, they drink and they spit it on you and do the healings, the fans, it's fucking intense, one of the most intense, beautiful things you can do, and

I'm sitting there, and then all of a sudden this vision comes up, and it says, Jane, you need to speak to Carlos, who is his interpreter, you need to tell him that I'm speaking to you right now, and I want you to honour Tyta, I want you to honour him and hand over your name, and that's one conversation that really can spin you, like he can throw you, it threw me out, and so I'm sitting there, I'm like, what do I do, do I not listen to what I'm being told, and go back to my

bed and just kind of act like nothing is happening, this whole episode isn't happening right now, or do I go and hand over and say this is what's happening right, and so I do, I'm like, this is too much of a thing right, and so I say to Carlos, I go Carlos, the medicine's asking me to honour Tyta's name, I don't know what this means, can you speak to Tyta, and so they go and have this conversation in Spanish, and then he comes over to me and puts his hand on my forehead, and he gives

me this blessing, he's like, yes, yes, and as soon as I accepted that, the whole world spun around, as I was saying to you guys before, this intense thing, everything spun, like the vortex just going crazy, I was like, what is happening, and it stopped, and as soon as it stopped, still right now, I've never ever felt so much peace and acceptance and understanding of everything right, to the point, I said before, I really thought that I could live off water, that I was so pure, I'm like, fuck, I've just become immortal, which obviously you

don't think an hour or two later right, and in that moment when that happened, you know, I've had a past where I've had issues with like gambling and all this kind of stuff, and I've always thought, and even in my deepest things where I've had those nights where I just lose the plot, drop heaps of money, get pissed, come home and kind of sit there and go, what the fuck is wrong with me, I always knew that there was some kind of imbalance in my life, and as soon as that happened, it wiped, which is

something I don't think I'll ever be able to explain, and long story short, after all of this kind of stuff happens, what I then find out is Taito isn't his name, it's a title, and it gets handed down through the medicine, so his name is Taito Juanito, and he's got that honor as a title, and there's only a handful in the world, and so what's happened to me is, through this experience, I've found out that I'm someone that can channel through the AOS guy, which is a really fucking hard thing to come back into the real life with.

- Yeah, I can imagine, it's different. - It is different, but I've never ever felt more right, and look, to me right now, it's not something that I'm gonna take up right this minute, I've still got so much unfinished business I wanna do here with businesses and whatnot, but I could definitely see, I will not see myself, I know that I will be doing this work in five years time, easy, and yeah, it's absolutely wild, and then to finish it off, he took me in the room and he grabs his hand and he puts it

back into my heart, he's like, you can have this back now, and I was just like, no, that's me done, that's me done, yeah, and it just blew, and it's wild, and the most magical thing about it all, really, was more the sense of how much that affected the room, more so than me, 'cause that's kind of what it was channeling, it's like, hey, this isn't you, this is me coming through you for this, and a lot of people who sit with him go on tour with him, where they might sit 30, 40 times a

year with him, and just follow him around, and having those conversations with some of the women, the guys there, saying that was the most ridiculous, beautiful thing I've ever seen, it's just a really, really overwhelming but amazing thing, yeah. It's so much to process, and I have a lot of different questions, but I guess, if we go past Wallace, and obviously some doubts and stuff come up, but knowing you and appreciating you and the journey you've been on and stuff, it obviously gives everything that you talk about a lot more weight than if someone on the street would be like, you're a fucking idiot, carry on.

So how do you deal with, I don't know if backlash is the right word, but there's obviously a lot of charlatans in the world doing fucking weird shit that doesn't do anything, how do you talk about that and address that? So this is like, I'll semi-answer that question first, that's also been one of the most intense things about what happened, was going through that after process of accepting what's going to be said about this, because to the untrained eye, if I heard one of my mates say this or whatever, I'd be like, he's fucking nasty,

which is a great acceptance because it's someone else's thing, and for me, it's like, if I'm completely, 100% still know that I'm in tune, I'm not off with the fairies, not anymore than I was before, then that's all that matters. And yeah, going back to the shamans and the real deal, it is one of those things where, like I said, I don't think anyone subjectively is better than the other one, I think the only thing where this goes wrong is where people don't treat it right. I spoke to someone post during my trip and they're

like, oh yeah, I've done ayahuasca before, it was real funny, we drank it, and then the shaman went back into his other room and was drinking whiskey and watching TV. I'm like, eh, it's like doing a fucking CrossFit class at fitness first, going, I CrossFit you. They're not the same thing. And I think that's probably the kind of, as this gets more open to the Western world, it has its ups and downs. A lot more people are going to hear about it and use it as a tool and fully believe it can really change the world.

And then the flip side of that is there are a lot of Westerners doing this, so there are a lot of cowboy shamans who can set up shop. And people would know the difference, right? They would know the difference. I think that's why you need to do the research. And if anyone was listening and wanting to do it, my best two recommendations would be a place in Costa Rica called Arithmia. That's where I first started, which is a great tool because you go through, it is a five-star resort, and so you have so much aftercare, you have so much information, you really get your hand held through it, especially if you've never delved into anything else before, right?

And it gives you the tools where they use medicines from across the world, Peru, Colombia, even Hawaiian brew maybe. Don't quote me on that. But you can find out what you like and you don't like, because some people love the Colombian and hate the Peru and vice versa. A lot of people don't like the Colombian one because it's the masculine one that is tough. And then the other one is Tita, who's at a place called Finca Abawasi down in Colombia, and him and his team are real deal. He's been working with it since he was seven.

His great granddad is still a shaman. He's 109 and does ceremonies still. So the lineage of that is amazing. And basically what happened to me on that night was like a rebirth for the medicine of Tita. And the Tita that I sat with, he's 29, and that's happened to him five times. And most people will be lucky to have it once out of the very small amount of people in the world that it happens to. So yeah, I would suggest if you do it, don't just bite the bullet and find someone in the Blue Mountains who says they've got a bit of it.

If you do, cool. All the same kind of thing. And once again, not rinsing on those people. They could be those people, but I think just do the research. It's so, so important who does that, who holds the energy, who serves it, that if you do take massive shortcuts for convenience, you're going to get a minuscule of what it actually is. And you'll probably go, no, I'm doing this again. Having experienced what you've experienced, do you feel as though in a certain way it's kind of like your duty to share the message? Yeah. It was my duty before what happened at the Tita thing.

So I actually have a bit of a notebook here from the San Pedro. So when I did the San Pedro after the first ayahuasca trip, I was writing down dot points and one of them was like spread the message. That's cool. Share your wisdom with the world. That was one of them. And that was just coming from like what happened beforehand. I was just going cool. You've spoken to a lot of people about your first experience, but you put a lens on that was probably you shouldn't have in a way, which was like, man, I

turned into a snake, you know, some guy, this and this, and then everyone's just like, oh, I can't wait to hear the loose stories and what not. So it wasn't given it justice. It wasn't given justice. And then when I went deep in this next one and worked with six or seven different medicines at one time and got the full depth of how it works, I was like, yeah, you need to come back and tell a different story. It's good to, you know, there will always be that funny side to it. Like anything that you do when you get in those states.

So there's always one way that you could, you know, share those other stories that kind of happened in that one that were funny. But if the purpose is to share the message and you know, maybe it affects one person, tell it right. Yeah. Which was cool. I got like a lot of things out of this journal that's here in front of me. It's funny to go through it, speak nothing but the truth. That was the first one. I think that was probably my biggest takeaway from the first experience I did. I'm sure we're all probably guilty of this is like adding a bit of GST to everything.

And it was like slapping me with that. It was like, you know, a lot of people will talk about, you know, where they are in terms of success or whatever, and then add that little bit on top. And it happens across everything. Probably happens in your gym with how much you back squat. So it was really kind of slapping me in that sense of just going like, fuck that. Like you have to speak absolute truth. That's the only support. That's the only way. 65 kilos for anyone asking. Two glues. I got five on top of me.

I guess that's really exciting. And like, obviously you said there's more to do here. Yeah. In terms of before you kind of explore that area. What is it that you want to do or that you have to do? Working on a new business now, I want to completely get that to where we want it to get to. Yeah. I want to walk away with, not walk away, but move into it with absolutely no burdens. Like financially be free, free enough to go on that. Like another funny thing that's changed for me, I'm sure a lot of people are in this boat, is like my success now is so different to what it was before.

Like my success was fucking making as much money as I can having the sickest house, you know, this, this, like that longterm goal for me is like the pole of the scenario. It's like being lucky enough to work with something which I fully believe is a healer and can help people. And if that means that I'm fucking living in Columbia for the rest of my life, then that's okay. But I want to be in that place where all my kind of like debts and stuff are paid off. I've got cash there to travel and do

all that, but it's not like, Hey, you know, you want to put a deposit down on your house or do this and just really play the long game with it. You know, I'll be going back in the next year or two to just go sit with Tyter again and just go through that and just really make sure that I'm still working with it and then go for it. Like I'm in no rush either. It's a lifelong journey. It is a lifelong journey. And I think if I went now, when I'm not probably set up to

do that, there would be a lot of negativity because I believe like if through the medicine I'm there to heal other people, I've got to be my best self as well. And so I'm not at the moment, like I've got work to do, fitness, you know, everything like you've got to be in abundance to do this kind of work. So yeah, it's a journey. Huge responsibility. At one point in my life, I need to change my name, which is, that's a hectic. Logistically, because when I was in it, it was like, your name is now just Tyter.

Like that's it. No last name. But then once I've come back and I started like, it's going to be really hard to find you on Facebook. Filling out my passwords and shit like that, I'm like, nah, I'm just going to move Jayden to my middle name. I logistically don't want to go through that nightmare. He's having it with old work email and not having that dot com. I'm like, that's a big enough pest as it is. This email doesn't work with our server. I was like, well fuck, not having our last name is going to be a bad thing.

And another wild thing that happened on top of that is, no offense to mum and dad if you're listening. Shout out to mum and dad. This is a, this is a deep thing and this is a really big takeaway from it, is all through life when I've had my name, I don't think I've really like walked into it with confidence and some great examples are like going to a cafe and like, what's your name? Jayden. Like Jason, Jared, this or this. And I think that like, there is something in that, that name thing. And I was catching myself unintentionally saying things like, if they're like, Jayden, I'm like, don't worry.

It's a shocker. As a joke, I'm like the amount of that plays on you. So that when this happened in that ceremony, I got onto that name. I was like on my bed, shirt off, like in this weird kind of like flex over pose. I was like, ever since I've accepted that I've felt more strength in myself. Plus my lifts have gone up. Yeah. From 50 to 60. To me, that's an interesting piece as well. And I think it can relay into more than just myself, like business and stuff. I think that's really important if someone's not vibing on the name, I think there's actually way more to a name now than what it is.

100%. So like, that's not, to me it's something that I'm really looking forward to, to my parents. They're probably going to fucking lose their shit. I haven't told them yet. So I wanted to wait a little bit just so it's not like I've come back from this trip and just be like, yo, mom and dad. Thanks for the last 28 years of it, but I'm dropping it. I know they're a big fan of the podcast. Yeah, man. That's good. It is an interesting thing. And it's something that I doubt not many people will experience in their life is going through a total shift in identity, but not as a person.

That's the biggest thing that for the few people I've told, they're like, oh, I don't want you to change it. It's not like, you know, I'm not turning into like a walk. But for me, like now I know every step forward I go with doing it. It's just a bit of an upgrade. I believe in that. So you know, you can push. I think there's some people who probably do it too much and they don't allow that play the guitar thing. And you always tune in, tune in, tune in. It's like always trying to find that next thing.

I think that goes across life as well with people who like diets and training things like never really set, set and work on something. It's like, oh yeah, I'll be jumping from that gym to that gym. It's like, fuck, why am I not getting results where I want to be? Because like, yeah, you seem pretty content about it all. I guess that comes from what you said before about it all, it all happened. I had to be content. Like I knew, like sitting there when it was all going down, I knew the amount of intensity behind that decision and like respect for him and his culture.

I couldn't just wake up the next morning, laugh it off about last night. Thanks for honoring your name, but not going to happen. So I think everything happens for a reason. That was the most crazy, crazy, but it feels right. You know, I never really believed in people like saying I've found my passion and my purpose. So like you found like a temporary purpose. But now, like me personally, and now I believe other people when they say it is like, yeah, you actually can. And I know now that this will be my path. Post getting the shit done here that I need to get done.

Yeah. It's going to be an exciting journey. A couple of questions for you to take wherever you want to take them. What are you proud of? I'm not proud of? Good question. I think I'm proud of owning my shit now and doing the work. Which is cool. I think it's probably one thing that the three of us guys do really well. You know, doing the work and owning it. You know, being vulnerable in those kinds of states as well. And yeah, I think I'm proud of a lot of things that have happened over the last couple of years.

Alchemy was a big one. You know, that was great to have an impactful job. I've come off a lot of jobs which were just kind of working for cash. Mine work, labouring work, you know, stuck in a way work where you just like, cool, this is a thing to pay the bills. Which is good. It's awesome to see you guys as well like your growth. I think that's got nothing to do with me, but it's good to play a big role. Yeah, so I'm proud of that to like see people that I've worked with now going on and doing huge things.

Which is cool. So that's probably what I'm proud of. What are you most confident on moving forward? Just back in everything that happens. Playing to yourself. It's a big thing. Like not playing out of tune. So I'm confident in that. Confident in like every day kind of resetting, going through and be like, cool, today's the day. Not planning for too far in the future. Not thinking about the past. Just being confident that everything is where you need to be right now. That was a great takeaway that I got from him. He's like, everything is where it needs to be right now.

Don't think about, you know, I even remember coming out of that last ceremony and Tyler was doing an amazing speech and he goes, what's going wrong with the world is we just think too much. And he goes like, that's what creates sickness and that's what creates this and this is the over thought. He goes, oh, you know, we just went on the biggest journey last night. We went through this grand party. He goes, all you should be thinking about right now is what fruit are you going to have for breakfast? Because we're just going to have breakfast.

And he's like, it's a joke. But he goes like that because that's been present. That's been in your mind. Not thinking like, oh, you know, what time is my flight to my night? I hope I'm not fucking late for it. Because like that wasn't there thousands of years ago. And I know that for sure. Like thought and that creates a lot of sickness. I know a lot of people would just fucking think too much. And when you're aware of it, you can start catching yourself and going, oh fuck, it doesn't matter what's happening tomorrow afternoon. For sure.

And it's a very internal thing. Like I would have found myself to be honest, like two months ago, being in this podcast, but not being in here, like doing it, but then like not actually listening as much as I should have been or doing this. Worrying about this and this and this. And then you catch yourself in this loop of going to bed every night and be like, what the fuck happened today? Like I was so far into like the next thing. And then you just go through the days. Yeah. Yeah. What excites you most about your, like this, like not the new found, but like this growth?

What you've experienced? I think it's probably going to be leaving like a true urgency. You know, getting out of those rooms in the morning, there is no feeling like that. And the amount of respect that you have for the people who, who serve that is huge. You know, so yeah, and it, and it is, and this is going to be the hard conversations that I have with a lot of people is it is the ultimate sacrifice in a way. Like you, you are really just working, you're serving others. You're not serving yourself. You're not going to be pulling $200,000 a year as a shaman and, you know, living in Eastern South Wales.

Yeah, go through the roof there. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just come back and do that. So yeah, that, that's what it is for me. It's like, I know what I'm in for. Yeah. I'm totally okay with that more than okay. It's amazing. Yeah. That's good. Any more for anymore? Good for me. Mate. Thank you. That was interesting. Yeah. I'm looking forward to digesting that a couple of times. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to have to play me some replays for my parents now. Maybe I'll just screw it off. Wait, what do you mean? Just listen to it.

Yeah. Just skip through the 40 minute mark. You get the shout out and then it goes downhill for me. That's awesome guys. Thanks for having me on. Thank you, man. Bye.