S1E78 · Jeremy Dooley: Why do you give a shit

Hey Legends, welcome to another week of the Virtus Performance Podcast, I have a very special episode for you today, even though they're all very special in their own ways. Today's guest is Jeremy Dooley, who you may potentially remember from episode 23 where we took a bit of a dive into his upbringing and his kind of journey through life. We talked about his work with the Reach Foundation, we talked about his strength and conditioning work, he's done some work as an actor, he was heavily involved in helping out at one of the less fortunate events that

happened in Melbourne a couple of years ago, so if you haven't yet listened to it, episode 23 is epic, it's something that touched a lot of people and there were some pretty cool responses from it, so yeah, dive back and listen to that before or after this one, our intention for today's episode was a little bit different, it was just to have a conversation, we weren't worried too much about what we each did, even though obviously it came up a little bit, we talked about meaning and connection and culture and all those kind of things,

connection kind of dove into a couple of different areas with other people, with ourselves and with the world around us, so if you're currently walking around listening to this, take your shoes off, jump into some grass and just enjoy it because it's something we take for granted a little bit too often, every conversation I leave after chatting at duels I always feel a little better, a little bit more relaxed and like I have a little bit more understanding about how the world works, so he's a great man, this was an excellent podcast and I'm very

excited to share it with you, however, before I do, I would like to ask for help, one of the things that I want to do in 2019 is grow our podcasts, listen and grow our numbers and one of the ways I can do that is by asking you guys for help, if you enjoy your episode, enjoy any episode please share it, that would be epic if you could subscribe to the podcast but most of all if you could leave a review, reviews are one of those ways that we get up the charts and get noticed

a little bit more, there's some epic reviews on there at the moment but it's something that I probably haven't asked for enough if you guys could take 60 seconds out of your day to give us a good review that would be ace, if you could give us a bad review that would be less ace but hey everyone's entitled to their opinion, alright let's get stuck in hey, without further ado, here's tools. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day, I believe everyone, especially normal people have a story to

tell, the Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. Dools, mate, welcome back. Thanks for having me, it's good to be back. Round two, 56 weeks later or something? Yeah, a while ago. It was, for those listening at home, this man has been on the podcast before, episode 23, geez it was a long time ago, it's been a hectic year. Shit's happened, shit's gotten real, big year indeed. I don't think I was asking this question back then so I've got a question to start off, I'll get you out of bed in the morning and you can't say culture and connection.

I think for me, you know, and you know like my background's a lot in martial arts and mates that whole, that kaizen, you know, the intention to improve a little bit more. Whether I improve or not is irrelevant, it's the intent behind it. And sometimes that's not even myself, sometimes it's, you know, can I run a workshop better? Can I be more present with someone? Can I help someone on their journey? So yeah, that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. I like that. So like last time we had a chat it was a little bit more kind of chronological, talking about your story, talking about like what you've done and where you've been.

I guess my intention for today's chat, and you may have a different intention or similar intention, is to kind of dive a little bit more into like why you do it and how you do it and kind of what impact you're trying to make on the world and what day-to-day things you do, things that you teach, how it actually makes a difference. So I guess, you know, I like the fact that you're so open book, it's like there's no fucking book, it's just a piece of paper. What's the impact or the mission that you're trying to create and trying to live up to each day?

Yeah right, so we're starting straight into it. My mission. I think for me, you know, on the back of my business card is the sentence "when was the last time you truly felt alive?" That's a good question. And so that, you know, when was it for you? I think, I don't know, I've went straight back to like training this morning. So I slept in this morning a little bit longer than I should have. I usually train before work, I've been kind of getting into a good habit of that. And then I kind of went "oh

fuck, I'm going to miss training for the day" and I went "oh no wait, this is going to be a cool learning experience for our interns who we've got two legends, Jasmine and Charlie, who are six weeks into a 12-week mentorship" and I kind of went "well, I'm going to get best of both worlds here, I'm going to throw them in the deep end because they're ready, they're well and truly ready to do a full session by themselves and I'm going to get trained". And so my, that feeling alive was when I was kind of like flying the wall watching them coach with a barbell on my back.

Awesome. And then like kind of external to that answer, my kind of brain went to standing on top of Machu Picchu earlier this year, snowboarding amongst the trees at the top of a mountain in Myoko with a couple of my best friends in the world, like little moments like that. You know, spending time with KP, like these are the things that come to mind when I last felt alive and I think the thing that, it can be in the most magical part of the world or it can be in the beautiful town of Tayav but everything for me comes back to people.

It comes to spending time with people and experiencing things with people and like this morning was a bit of a partner workout, like our version of a partner workout where one person lifts, one person like supports and gets around them and it was, yeah, it's fucking ace morning. Yeah, gets you up and about, you're jacked for the day, you're ready to roll. Yeah. It's funny because it used to be for me the want to have and to create moments where time stands still and those moments where it feels like just everything's slowing down. Yeah. You

know, that flow stayed back in the zone but I think now, you know, over the course of the last 12-18 months, it's still the same thing but now I'm just thinking about it a little bit differently. So it's not about time slowing down or standing still, it's about feeling as much as you possibly can and being present while you're doing it. I mean, that's an important way to look at it like feeling whatever you're feeling. Like the last time you fell alive can be the time you had really bad news and you felt devastated for someone close to you who's gone through something.

And like we've had like, you know, in our little community, we've had a bit going on lately in terms of that so like those things can make you feel alive and it doesn't have to always have a positive connotation around it like one of the books we were just talking about Tuesdays with Morrie which I read for the first time during the week and apologies to everyone that's read it 18 times but I didn't know it existed. So thanks to Alicia Kelly for suggesting it to me but I was reading that and like choking up

towards the end and genuinely, you know when you get that like wave of, it's like sadness but it's like euphoria and you just feel like tingling in the back of your neck. It's like this is feeling alive even though I'm laying down on the couch reading a book. It's feeling. Yeah. Yeah, it's feeling. Add to your book list. Stop suggesting books mate, I'm running out of money. Lost Connections by Johan Hari. I'd be listening to that on my way to work as an audiobook but crying on my way to work so you'd see me in

my car or in my truck when I still have my Ford Ranger just like a ball of tears streaming down my face listening to that for the same reason. Feeling alive doesn't necessarily have to be a positive thing, can be a negative thing, can be everything in between, can be moments simultaneously. Yeah. It's the same when people talk about defining moments you know and that's something I talk a lot about in my work is you know the moments that shape you and those you know fork in the road moments, the defining moments and a lot of people instantly revert to negative things but they don't have to be negative things.

Yeah. They can be absolutely truly positive things that set you on a different path. Yeah and I think it's important to kind of like to use your example of the Hero's Journey we were talking about before to be able to go full circle and have that, those periods of I guess struggle and frustration and pain and suffering and whatever and then to have that followed by triumph. Like another book we were talking about before, Principles, Ray Dalio, like that little loop that simple like if anyone hasn't read the book Principles, there's a 28 minute YouTube series on it.

It's elite. Otherwise like just Google Principles loop or whatever and it's just like a five-step kind of way to success. It's like identifying the problem, struggling with it, figuring out a solution and then just doing that on repeat and that's life and I think it's really important to understand that it's not always going to be sunshines and rainbows and everyone like is on this pursuit of happiness but I think the happiness comes from when you allow yourself to feel all of those different feelings around that journey. It's funny, I ran a corporate retreat I guess

for a leadership team in insurance and superannuation and they were all in that field and you know we're in Queensland like in the bush and they're like oh it's so great to be able to disconnect a little bit, disconnecting and put our phones down. It's like no that's wrong. They're actually going there to connect because they're so disconnected and a lot of people are so disconnected in their day-to-day lives. It's just reframing things a little bit. And I think yeah phones can be the most perfect tool for connection if we allow them to be but

they can be like one of those blocks to connection if we do the same like it's so easy and I like I'm guilty of it as much as anyone. There's a actually there's a really cool medium article about like how to disconnection proof your phone or whatever it's like there's all these steps in terms of like getting rid of notifications like getting rid of those fucking red little dots with the numbers in it like setting it up so that it goes on do not disturb at like seven o'clock at night and you know airplane mode

at eleven o'clock and all like all these different things and I sat there for half an hour with one of the boys from the gym and we did it every step. And since then I feel as though I'm like I still check my phone I still dive into it like I've done little things like delete Facebook app off it and in I probably had a month maybe two months ago where I was just on my phone all the fucking time and it like I was aware of it but not like not able to actually pull myself away from it yet.

That kind of got me started from it and I think now I try and look at connection through okay how do I connect with people and with others and sometimes that's through the phone right like we have a team zoom meeting twice a week fifteen minutes we just jump on and have a chat and that's connection with the guys that I may not be able to see every day or it might be catching up with someone on the other side of the world or whatever so if I can connect with people whether it be like

this like face to face having a conversation then that's a tick in that box if I can connect with the world around me like I've been trying to meditate outside and going for walks and shoes off just feeling the ground like simple weird hippie shit like that but it makes you feel fucking excellent like just getting down the beach all those kind of things. I tell this story a lot yeah it's a little bit of a tangent here about things that people take for granted and how you know many years ago I did some work

in a prison and one of the inmates was talking about you know the question that was asked was what is your perfect day look like yeah and it was quite an awkward like shit what are these guys gonna say yeah but the guy in my group all he wanted to do was stand barefoot on grass yeah well didn't care like if it was for 30 seconds or for 30 minutes all he wanted to do was stand barefoot on grass yeah that's um something that majority of people looking at right now could go and do straight

away and it feels pretty bloody good I haven't had shoes on all day until we fucking went over common folk now they're off I feel good yeah and I think like yeah the grounding stuff gets a bit hippie for me sometimes but that ability just to connect with the ground and actually feel whatever you need to feel underneath it's so so valuable but we don't value those things anymore that we have two inches of polyurethane rubber underneath our feet and it we've got that bounciness and yeah it's comfy but we miss such a big part

of I think what it is to be human and those little things are going to become even more powerful because people are so used to using using that as an example people are so used to having footwear on yeah um or only being really barefoot around the house or you know in little periods of time but if you consciously did that barefoot on the grass you know good grass as well not stuff with a shitload of bindi earlens in there you know like shout out to bindi earlens but if you're if you can do that

and do it consciously like the small flow and effect that it can have could lead to a whole range of different things yeah and like we we majority of the stuff we do in the gym obviously know like none of the impact stuff um and some of the bigger conditioning stuff we have shoes off and it's really interesting to see how some people just like can't wait to get their their shoes off and other people who come in fret like fresh and don't necessarily know how it all works they're like well why like oh you

know I have shoes on all the time like that's kind of the point um we can obviously understand from a movement point of view but I think it gets so much deeper than that just from a connection and we shouldn't count how many times oh there's gonna be a lot from a connection and from from a um from just a mental clarity point of view I think there's something to be said about having your shoes off um I wonder if there'd be a link between tradies who have work boots on all the time and mental

health I don't know yeah maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm drawing a really long bow but I think it's it's just makes I think it's calming I don't actually know I couldn't tell you the psychological benefits of it but it feels good so do it yeah absolutely absolutely what do you think um you know hearing you say that about you know tradies and stuff and hearing you talk about the community um like what do you do what is your do I do yeah so this is something like I like thinking about this stuff um and I'm

still trying to articulate it the best so the reason why I ask um you know in one of the workshops that I do one of the keynotes that I do um and that we do where I work um we tell the story of JFK going to NASA when he um comes across a janitor with the you know with the mop and bucket and stuff he's like oh what are you doing yeah and the janitor's like I help all people on the moon that's sick I love that so you know since then you know like I

do a lot of work I tell a lot of stories I hear a lot of different things like that a lot of different you know one lines that are really mind-blowing but that one's always stuck with me and it's something that I ask a lot of people now is yeah what do you actually do I use the uh the gym as an excuse to create community um like for me it started out loving sets and reps and loving deadlifts and all that kind of shit that comes with it and I think I wouldn't be able

to have used all of that to do what I do now if I didn't understand it to to whatever level I understand it and then to kind of dive into the the performance aspect of it that obviously like being a um being an athlete for a period of time that was really important to me and then it kind of will you know you start seeing the wider world and it's like okay health's probably a bit more important than well-being is a bit more important than it's like well connection between all of those things and community

is so much more important than everything else so now um one of the guys we look up to uses the term it's just a flavor and I kind of like that like the gym the sets and reps whatever we did today in in um in our group training it's just a flavor and some way to connect with both ourselves and everyone else um and you know I know that half the people who um trained this morning went and had coffee together um I know that a few of them sat around and talked shit for a

while um a few of them had to run off to work but you know I know that throughout the week there's going to be a lot of people that can have relationships and have conversations and connect with each other because of what we're doing there um and that's and that's a pretty cool feeling yeah so it's like you you you create a community but what you're actually doing is you are making people feel like they belong somewhere definitely definitely that sense of sense of belonging and sense of tribe and being part of something that's bigger

than yourself I think like I don't think I know it's a basic human need um and I think when we like if you go Maslow's hierarchy like when we find when we have our safety and when we know we're gonna get food and stuff that that's the next thing we need and I think having a place where people can believe in something and like there's a lot of polarizing areas of other like society and community but and the fitness industry but we're kind of in that we believe in something really strongly but it's it's almost

not polarizing because it's we take the best bits of everything in terms of like our um our principles and beliefs in terms of fitness we take bits and pieces of everything so we kind of believe in everything um and kind of created our own kind of I guess training style or whatever you call it um so we're not one of those like like we get jokes like we're a cult sometimes um and we love playing on our like you know merch is simply not a cult and stuff like that but I think the first like

that cult word I'd cheer at the end and like having that culture of people that want to be a part of something um that want to wear the merch or want to hang out on weekends or whatever um it gives them somewhere to go as one thing and that's always been a big part of that facility is even if you don't come in and train if you want to be a part of this and want to come here during the day like one of the boys dropped in yesterday watched cricket for a couple of hours

and like we have guys drop in before work or whatever and they don't train and they just come and hang out and like that's almost more rewarding than someone hitting a you know 150 kilos on a back squat or whatever um and yeah and it's all relative to different people like some people are there to train and that's it um and we got to respect that and give them the best possible training experience we can but some people are there to have a second family and to feel like they belong where you know some of

them don't feel like that in other areas of their life um and I think that's that's what makes it what it is and that's why we kind of do it and then like trying to foster that so it grows and evolves as everyone else grows and evolves too like we're never going to be the place for everyone but we've if we kind of understand what our beliefs are and and you know to not have to keep using that word but like that kind of what our mission is and to find people that are like-minded enough

to fit into that but also to challenge the people and challenge us that okay the people that aren't like-minded enough why are we missing something or are they missing something or whatever because anyone can yeah you know like I've worked in the fitness industry like I know a lot of people who work in the fitness industry who have a whole lot of different ideas so why is that something that's important to you that's a cool question like why do you give a shit yeah um I think I think we are like our sole purpose as

human beings is to is to evolve and is to grow in whatever way whether it be physically or mentally or socially is find those ways to adapt and I think doing it in that environment having the community around you that can support you too I guess I love the term transcend yesterday um it's kind of become a little mantra for me the second half of this year it's just like I want to be a better person it's kind of like the kaizen mindset right like I want to be a better person I want to improve

something or improve the people around me so that they're better than they were yesterday and it doesn't have to like you said it doesn't have to be me directly um but you know if one of the guys at the gym who's struggling to get moving and to lose lose a heap of weight if I can get them in an extra time next next week because that because he feels a part of something or you know that person that's been trained in flat naka for the last three months I can get him to hit a pb

and he's and he's dead or he's bench or whatever if I can do that then I'm playing my part in making the world a better place and helping us as individuals and as a collective kind of evolve um but the why why do I give a shit bit I don't know it's fun like it's um I think it's it's easy it's really hard to get stuck into that it's really easy sorry to get stuck into that desire to improve that mindset um and just focus on that and just hammer that in and not kind of

stop and smell the roses um so to speak so I think and that's something that I've I go through ebbs and flows of like hammering it and then forgetting oh shit those two months flew by and I didn't really stop and and appreciate it and I'll go through like a month of like what the major and the hectic times would say I've done fuck all but I've enjoyed every second of it so it's like finding that balance between loving what you do and making a difference um and creating that community so I don't know it's

interesting and like a big part of what I do is try and build team and like a core group of people who will help do that for everyone else as well um yeah it's a good question like why why should you give a shit it's um I think it's something that we probably don't think about enough no I um I was working Tuesday afternoon I was running a workshop um for a property development um company business whatever for all of their backroom staff yeah 60 people um and I asked them that same question like why

do you guys do this um you know what's the impact that end line impact that you're making and told them that JFK story um and I up until that point I was asking a lot of very personal questions of people you know what are you proud of and um you know people you look up to etc all those questions really easy for people to answer really beautiful heartfelt responses you know people were really honest and revealing themselves and we'll get to that one and it was crickets it rocks you a bit yeah people weren't sure

yeah um you know and so then you know you people will start on that surface you know I do this you know because um you're using that as an example you know people are talking about creating landscapes and being able to influence and but for me all these buzzwords yeah that's not the answer I don't give a shit about that yeah because that's not real what I care about is why is that answer important yeah yeah so it's like a couple of layers down yeah it's the okay you know using what you're saying about building

a community like why do you want to build a community and then you take that answer it's like okay why is that important for you yeah like where does that come from well I think like if you keep going layers like it makes me feel good like we're just pleasure monkeys right so it makes me feel good and I know that it makes other people feel good um and I think we need a place and and that that can be a metaphorical place like it can be a group of people we need a place we

can go when we don't feel good and that we know you know that that loop will come back around um and I had a really I read a really good I think it was a Sebastian Junger quote um during the week and it was just around like when you've when you look finally look back on all the pain and suffering you realize that were the most beautiful times of your life and I like I'm fortunate to have had some tough times but not like relative to some other people not even close so it's cool to

be able to look back at some of those times they go okay well I was challenged in so many different ways and if I wasn't then I wouldn't have adapted like go from a physiology point of view like it's just stress stress adaptation response and it's the same thing when we're going through a hard time and it's really hard to reflect on that or to see that during but it's really easy easy to reflect on that when the hard times are kind of done um that's the key thing there is like I've been through a

lot of shit like I've swum in the deep waters before yeah and I've also had really positive moments in my life yeah if you don't take that time to stop and reflect like they're just that's just time yeah you know like they're just bad shit or good shit but you can turn that into actual like growth shit yeah and but you got to take that time to reflect and if that is going to a place like your facility to you know hang out watch the cricket for a little bit and just completely center and relax

yourself like that stuff's priceless yeah I think it's having the tools and compiling the tools to be able to know how to reflect and know like what to actually reflect like we did a workshop with with Cameron Schwab um about a month ago and I still haven't called him back but I need to um thanks for reminding me but one of the things he did was every I think it was every six months he has like a bunch of questions he asked especially just reflection questions but he locks himself in a room for four hours

with nothing else and like I don't remember the last time I locked myself in a room and did anything for four hours so I think that ability to actually and four hours of nothing in the space of six months to be able to stop and kind of go okay well what am I most proud of achieving in the last 90 days or whatever or what am I most confident about at the moment or what am I most excited for what hasn't worked and how do I how do I fix that and if you're able to

stop write it down articulate it um like I guess I journal every day so I get a little bit of that daily but to be able to do that properly every three months can be so powerful in terms of looking back and going well fuck I've actually done a fair bit because it's really easy to to not stop and reflect and to go by and go oh nothing's really changed in the last 12 months where really like the whole world the whole the whole world can change it's like and I have a um alert that

comes up on my phone it'll come up you know this afternoon every Friday four o'clock um weekly review like what have I done that week that's cool what's been good what's been a little bit shit what have I learned this week what like successes like areas where I if I have my time back I'd do it better um you know the debriefing is hugely important in anything it's um you know it's the same as in footy it's you know the game like the game is really important like win or lose but it's the the next

meeting afterwards where you're like are able to actually distill the good things that you've done well and stuff where you could actually grow a little bit like that's the important part of it definitely um yeah so debriefing otherwise you just play the same game every week exactly um you know there's um I think it's ryan holidays um his journal um the daily stomach I think it's called um easy one yeah easy one that lives by my bedside yeah yeah it's um yeah I'll flick through it but I haven't I haven't kind of sat there and

read read a lot of it and I think being able to have those tools or the books or something that like it's almost like a tool to center us um like for me right now it's my journal that I just like I was walking around trying to find the pen before we were going to come I'm like I need this journal with me and it's just that's a habit that I've been able to kind of cultivate because I was like I don't have anywhere to put all of my thoughts or quotes or to-dos or whatever

um are there tools that you give for that debrief or that you use for that debrief or is it just kind of like how do I go um no like it depends on um like I probably have layers of it um so if I'm debriefing an experience um where there's people in the room um my big thing is like what is what stood out for you um you know so it's not about anything else it's more of a because I do a lot of weird shit in my work I do a lot of weird shit

I do a lot of really confronting shit um there's generally um emotion there's always honesty and vulnerability and that's really confronting for a lot of people um so at the end of it to start to give people to I guess leave the experience and you know almost do that game review meeting yeah it's what stood out to you what's going to be the thing that you're going to walk away with the memory the thing that you remember and then it's what are you going to take from that experience so from whatever that thing was that

stood out to you what's the learning there um and then it's why like why would I have done that yeah why would I get you to have these crazy intense conversations why would I get you to reveal yourself to your team who you don't know like why am I asking you to look beyond the email signature so much um so that's you know how I debrief an experience and then for me personally like I'll look at it and I'll make a checklist of everything that I did from you know start to finish and if that's

a two-hour experience or an all-day or a weekend yeah I'll pull every little thing apart what could I have done better where were the fork in the road moments for me where okay I zigged maybe if I'd zagged it would have gone somewhere different and then you know because it's easy to then get caught in the detail and I'll take a step back and cycle if I did it again what are the three things I'll do differently and if I was to give my work entire run sheet content to someone else what are the things

that I did really well that they should try and do as well we have those fork in the road moments like daily like every conversation is a fork in the road moment like every relationship we have with someone every interactions another fork in the road moment and it's like you know you see maybe people you haven't seen for a few years and like they've gone off on a different fork and they've traveled through fork after fork after fork and you've done the same thing and with every different person like I think it's really valuable to

be able to kind of stop and like look at where those forks have taken you and go well am I on track or am I off track it's like a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step let's hope that you're right walking in the right direction right like otherwise you're a thousand thousand miles the other way you get that extra thousand to get back to the starting point and then go the other thousand yeah and I think that's why I like like planning and reflection those two things together are so valuable because

then you make sure that okay well I am walking in the right direction and we talk about it before about the goalposts moving like if the goalposts do move while you're on that path and you're not kind of reassessing and reflecting then you're gonna walk the wrong direction but if you assess it and go okay well I need to take a little step to the right and then keep walking it's an ego thing too yeah because a lot of people you know when the goalposts move people are single-minded about their original plan their original goal

they don't want to deviate because then they think oh fuck like I've failed here yeah bullshit you've only failed if you actually keep going down the path and don't realize that the goals are not where they were at the start yeah it's like that like how long do you have to make a mistake before like continue to make a mistake before you kind of just take the ego out of it and change it like it's something that I probably wrestled with a little bit earlier this year was the last probably two years of business has

always been about okay how do we get bigger how do we get bigger like how do we get a bigger space or that kind of stuff and then it's like I don't even really want that anymore like those goalposts have moved I want to do what we're doing better and I want to do it in a bigger way and help more people but that doesn't necessarily mean we need to find a facility that's twice as big it just means that we need to get better at the way we do things and I think that it

was almost like a little weight off the shoulder like it was a breath of fresh air I felt so much better when I kind of finally articulated to myself well I don't even actually know if I want that anymore and that but that only came from probably 50 days of like journaling a full page every day and of me finally kind of like unraveling all those kind of thought processes absolutely because you asked me that question like six months ago what's next it would have been yeah we're gonna be a bigger gym but if you

ask me what's next now it's like well I just want to get really really good at what we're doing you used the word vulnerability before why is that so important for creating connection and culture yeah I use them both in the same sentence um because it shows that people are human good so when I walk into a room and it doesn't matter if it's you know the c-level leadership team of a company it doesn't matter if it's professional sports team I don't give a shit what your title is I don't care how many games you've

played yeah what I care about is human interaction and you know vulnerability it's it can freak people out it can be scary but as soon as you start to then voice that like you're being vulnerable then when you're voicing how scared you are of the vulnerability yeah like you're being human because you're down you're you're shining a light on it and you're showing people like your own fear um it's you know what happens when um people shy away from it and they run away from it is everyone's having the exact same experience yeah they just

don't realize it and as soon as you start to actually step into it the person next to you is like oh shit I'm feeling the exact same way yeah and the other person's like oh I'm feeling the same way oh I'm feeling the same way don't know you've got a team yeah yeah and everyone's on the same page starting point then you can start having those conversations that you need to have is there like obviously you do this a lot but you get a lot of resistance right like people not wanting to kind of open

up and be vulnerable what's your kind of like go to or or what's your focus when that that happens how do you how do you make how do you break down those barriers um there's a lot like there's a lot of different methods for me like you know it depends on a lot of things like you know what sort of archetype are they um are they a rebellious person by nature are they just scared yeah and if they're scared then it's you know how do I make it safe for them um a lot of the

times my approach is to let people self-select um and by doing that you get more and more examples of people putting themselves on the line yeah which means that the person who's scared starts to say oh well that person and that person and that person having great experiences and be scared about yeah and I'll ask the room like hands up if you respect these people all the hands go up it's cool I want to be respected yeah um sometimes I got to call people out you know if there's and you get it sometimes and probably

more so in in sport workshops um where you go is a bigger yeah you'll always get one or two people who their ego gets in the way and I'll call them on it yeah um if they're being destructive of everyone else like I'll be the first one to be like so why why are you ruining everyone else's experience yeah yeah you put the heat on them straight away yeah because they're not used to being spoken to in that way especially by the presenter or the facilitator whatever you want to call me I think as well

one of the um biggest things that happens in my work is when someone opens up and is really raw and really honest and showing huge amounts of courage um two things happen then in the room um one like the first thing that always happens is it feels like the whole room shrinks yeah and because everyone's focused everyone leans forward if they're sitting down or everyone's entire focus and intent and attention is on that person um and then the fork in the road moment happens after that where the second thing that happens is people either try

and offer advice or help that person and the thing that other that I really push is if you want to make that person feel okay and feel supported show them your vulnerability yeah be honest match what they're doing um because I'm not in the business of helping people sometimes it's a byproduct of what I do but making no mistake about it is not the focus of what I do what I do is about empowering people and creating teams and bringing people together to bring that group of people to life to be united bulletproof yeah so

when people go to help mode help mode help mode like the thing that fascinates me is okay why do you want to help why are you resistant to showing your vulnerability are they helping because they're terrified or are they helping because they don't know how to be vulnerable like there there's a whole rabbit hole that you can go down there with that yeah like so many of us go into that help mode because we're like oh yeah solution just fix it but the solution fee like it doesn't fix it because the other person is always

resistant to it so that ability for us to like it's almost I guess what with coaching a lot where I know what the person needs to do like to help them in a certain situation but me telling them over and over again ain't gonna help it's I've got to teach them to and empower them that's love that word empower them to to figure it out themselves and you know some people it takes five minutes some people take six weeks some people take six months but if you can empower someone to actually make this or to

to learn it and then execute it then they're going to get the result thereafter and they're going to be able to continue to get that result right thereafter when I teach a person fish you know it's the same thing like you know in my work you'll never hear me give my excuse me you'll never hear me give my personal opinion yeah on things is that hard it can be yeah because sometimes yeah it's like it's right in front of yeah the person or right in front of the group or you know I'm looking at the

pattern of the group and I'm the only one who can see it because I'm not part of it but the ego part wants to really throw that out there and be like well this is why you're doing that this is why you as a team are constantly hitting brick walls because you know you're all swimming in different directions but until they figure it out it doesn't mean shit yeah if I tell them that might be great for a couple of weeks yeah over the course of the season over the course of a financial year it's

not going to last um do you just kind of revert back to like asking the right questions yeah and you know it's so it's for me it's either asking questions or being vulnerable myself and vulnerability is not just about emotion it's just about being honest like if I don't know I'll say it I don't know yeah I'm like what do you guys think because they should know themselves better than I should yeah they're there all day with each other yeah um but for me like I sort of view myself as like the sherpa I guess

like I'm not there to do the walk up to the top for them yeah I'm there to support them and to walk alongside them exactly they still have to walk up to the top of Mount Everest whatever that looks like for them how's your ability to guide them evolve or guide your groups evolved over like the last I guess 6, 12, 18 months as you've been evolving yourself um it's funny like I've been doing this work weirdly I started doing this work since I was 20 I'm 33 now and 20 years old um you know

I had a 12 month secondment um from my work so I was working for a year at True Energy um which I don't even know if they exist anymore um and but at the time they were the biggest energy provider in Victoria um and I'm not sure if they were in other states or not um and I was there to run leadership and connection based workshops as a 20-year-old I had long hair I was this like little punk skater martial art kid um and you know when I look back at that journey to today like

it's a completely different person um you know I guess probably the big thing now is before I run everything um I always tell myself that I don't have the answers um and for me that's really important because as soon as I start to go into a room thinking that I know everything that's when I'm gonna fuck shit up and things are gonna explode and it's you know the participants aren't gonna get what they want and what they need that's pretty that's pretty important that's pretty powerful to be able to like stop and kind of go

I don't have the answers yeah but I'm gonna facilitate an environment where you guys can stop start figuring it out you said you used to be a punk skater martial art kid I like that who are you now um man I'm just a person who's um on the journey I'm just like every other person like I'm going through the highs and lows of life um I'm the person who you know like this year there was there's been a lot of curveballs thrown this year some self-inflicted some thrust upon me you know we've talked about the

Euro's journey there's been a lot of calls to adventure yeah this year for me um so place for me I'm a person who just gives a shit about people and that's my whole thing is like I give a shit about people strength and conditioning when I was in that world like oh you know when we were at Collingwood you would have known a lot more than me um you know when I've been at every club I've been at yeah um there's people who you know my interns and stuff know more than me have way more

technical knowledge the only thing that might separate me is that um I give a shit about the person who I'm working with and um and that's in strength and conditioning and when I was in that world that's in coaching which is sort of I guess what I consider myself now um and you know in all facets of my life like I'm just the person who gives a shit to flip your own question why why do I give a shit um I see what you've done there um you know I think because I think back to

um the impacts that I had on me when people gave a shit about me yeah and how that completely enabled me to transcend my existence and break out of you know bubbles that I was living in or potentially going to be living in um you know like we spoke about last time how you know Jim Stein's was one of the first people to really believe in me and he didn't care that I was from a shit area I was constantly like messing up at school like he just saw something in me and gave a shit

and so like that's really informed a lot of things for him what's kind of the next evolution of Jeremy um you know it's it's funny it's like the last um couple years has been a lot of roller coaster things so I think um for you know the next 12 months in particular um started to make a few decisions to enable a bit more space in my life to um you know there's a lot of external um outputs that I just had to do um but I've started to I guess set up structures to look after

myself a little bit more because I'm like I am my own worst enemy because I'm so giving to other people that sometimes I'm the last person on that list oh yeah I just wrote an article for like a business magazine that one of my mates is setting up and he's like can you write one on like your um like your specialty I'm like I don't feel like I have a specialty but sure I'll like I'll write one on like health and how to make sure you're maximizing your output through all that stuff and I'm writing

and I'm going to fuck I'm just writing this for like me like six months ago and it's it's funny how the people that are in positions of I guess coaching others or facilitating others development how you forget to look after yourself like I wrote a big chunk on sleep and like I read Matthew Walker's book um listen to his podcast and it's just like okay after reading I'm like here's my area that I need to work on at the moment I think that's really important for everyone to understand these people who stand in front of

you in a classroom or stand in front of you at work or whatever they're going through the same shit and then they're dealing with the same issues and the same problems they might be one step ahead in certain areas of their lives but at the end of the day everyone's like on that journey just like just everyone's on something yeah what are the areas I guess for you that you need to look after yourself a little bit better um oh man like my mental health has taken a hit this year yeah in the last probably

two years um so like I got diagnosed with severe depression um this week yeah wow so yeah working on that and that's been a like one of those things where I've probably known for quite some time um but learning um what that actually means and how to do that and a lot of people would be very shocked by that considering the work that I do and knowing the kind of person you are and I guess the work that you do can you articulate how that feels like not necessarily it feels to be diagnosed but how

it feels to kind of to know and like to what that kind of rollercoaster is like yeah and knowing's huge yeah knowing's knowing is is huge um knowing means that um you go from being in an empty room to um someone turn in the dark to someone turning the light on um so you can see where the door is yeah and how you get to that door like it might take you know years and years and years but you at least you sort of know that there's a door somewhere um you know so for me

that's what that's been able to do it was quite liberating um to be able to do that yeah um so so there's that that's something that um you know will just be ongoing um and then you know my physical health um you know like I spoke about it um you know off air a little bit you know like my stepdad's quite unwell um and which forced me to move from New South Wales back down to Victoria so yeah seeing um you know him sort of have to swim in some real deep waters and then mum

as well alongside that so there's um definitely like you know a lot of hospital food and a lot of drive-through runs this year for lack of preparation so um you know like this year it's been about you know finishing off this year has been about taking um some steps and setting up some structures to just allow me to succeed a little bit more yeah um and to you know it's not that I don't practice what I preach but it's to now really like live that so that I can look in the mirror after running a

workshop and be like yeah like I'm that guy yeah do you struggle like if you're not looking after yourself do you struggle with feeling like um an imposter syndrome or like feeling like you're falling a little bit yeah absolutely um yeah it's funny um I it's a question that I ask a lot in my work um about that sort of you know you feel like an imposter at work or like a bit of a fraud and stuff like that yeah um and how many people put their hands up for that oh that's insane isn't it

or relate to that or connect with that um I do because you know I often feel as though um you know like well why why am I this person at the front of the room like why are these people here listening to me why are they why is this company um paying for me to come to their work like surely there's other people out there um and then you know I'll start the workshop and then I'll be like oh yeah this is why um you know and oftentimes it's not until after the workshop where I

really understand that gravity but every workshop it's the same process I will get nervous I've been doing this 15 years I will get nervous running workshops yeah and it doesn't matter if it's my content or if I'm working with someone else running it on my own you're still nervous it's a good thing all the time all the time yeah it's it's a good like it's a good thing to feel those nerves because it means you give a shit um and like it's something I've gone through doing this like I have periods of time where I'll

do heaps of podcasts in like a three or four week period and I'll be six or seven ahead I'll be like yeah it's sweet and I won't do any for six weeks and I'll be like oh fuck I don't think I remember how to do podcasts anymore I don't know how to do it and then I'll do one and like feel like I'm flowing out like I'm just talking at the end of it I'll be like I need to do more podcasts like I guess that when you're actually in it doing it you're sweet but

it's when we're out of it and we're like our own worst enemy and I was listening to Joe Rogan talking to Henry Rowlands who Henry Rowlands is just fucking he's a powerhouse a cool guy he's just doing done and doing and heaps of shit but him and Rogan talked about imposter syndrome in their last podcast it's towards the end I can't remember which part but for about 20 minutes and I'm just sitting there like mouth wide open going how did these two people like feel as though that no one gives a shit like the two

people that you know I've never met them but I consume a heap of their content and they you look up to them so much and they're struggling with it and that kind of kicks me in the gear a little bit and just it was just a really good reminder is like everyone goes through that shit everyone feels they're not good enough like bring it up again kind of swab like incredible person like having only met him once and obviously you hear about all the stuff he's done like he talked about it as well and I

really struggling with that feeling like he didn't belong there and that he wasn't good enough and I go through the same feeling with my team and with like coaching people and stuff like that and it's like it's a good reminder to go okay well you know you don't have to know everything you don't have to know all the answers and if you just do it because you give a shit then you kind of do you ever tell your team that I like to think that I probably would have but I probably don't enough that I

don't sometimes I don't feel like I'm good enough as a leader or that I'm I never I never feel like I don't work at it enough like I'm always trying to make it better but I probably don't stop and articulate it to the team that like sometimes I don't feel like I deserve to be out in front of you guys like yeah which is which is it's a good lesson for me to create situations where I can be that open and honest and talk to them and sometimes as well it's not about you know because

this is where going back to that whole point on vulnerability like the effect that that would have especially on the interns like you know they're the they're the basement you're trying to raise their ceiling up quickly you know being that role model to put that out in front of them the impact that that can have and on the staff that you've you know that have been around for a little while and because it's a humanizing thing and you know one of the things I love about you and following you on social media and working with

you in footy is you know you're absolutely a real people person and sometimes the the risk in that is that you don't get seen because you're always seen yeah yeah definitely and I kind of go through stages of being like shit I'm posting too much or I'm trying to do the same things over and over again and I think like it's that balance between consistency and impact and it's just like well I'm not the kind of person that can kind of not show what I'm doing in any way like I'd like to be open book

everyone kind of seeing me for what I am so that like that consistency is just something that I try and keep up intentionally because that's me and that's and like yeah that's a really interesting point like always seeing never seen kind of thing and I feel like that sometimes like I feel as though like and I'll go through stages of being like fucking working so hard and like the needle is not moving but I'm almost measuring the wrong needle yeah a lot of the time yeah so it's what like for people in positions where they

where they are struggling to be vulnerable with a team or like it doesn't matter which part of the team they are whether an intern or running it or you know just one of the members of the team what's the apart from being vulnerable yourself because you said that was kind of your main go-to what are the things like the nudges and things that you give to create that environment it's about allowing people to talk or express things you know where they don't even realize that they're doing it half the time you know like one of

the questions I'll ask the most is you know I'll get people into I'll work with groups of people and I want something that you're most proud of yeah and the answer to that gives a huge insight into the person they're being vulnerable but they're also talking about something that has really positive connotations with it and what's surprising is in terms of bringing up emotion that question brings up a lot of emotion for a lot of people especially if you give yourself time to stop and reflect and actually give a proper answer because they don't take

time to stop and reflect yeah we've started implementing into it into those like two weekly huddles like sharing a win and like what do you what do you pardon me what are you actually proud of and that's it's sprouted some really cool conversations just around like little things sometimes like mum's part of our team and she'll be like I'm really proud that I asked for help the other day because she's super stubborn never asked for help and you know then it's pumped someone else up like caught being awesome like what's this other person doing so

it's kind of that joint one person sharing their own win and then them sharing for someone else absolutely it's a huge thing you know so yeah you're sharing wins and then it's like when that's done it becomes okay for other people to share their win yeah and and that's the whole thing that I work on is you know like all I'm doing is like opening up little things you know the whole room yeah everyone can do it together and sing from the same song book yeah how do we make the impact you're making in groups

in a wider community by community kind of scale that's a that's the great question yeah like you know and it's something that I think about quite a bit is how can I take I guess the feeling of participants at the end of my workshops and give that to the world and I'm not sure yeah it's something I'm still trying to figure out like you know there's talk of you know moving to digital platforms but then you lose the human factor and you're just another piece of content to consume right exactly you know we do large-scale

stuff and I do large-scale stuff I think it's about when someone comes to my work and experiences a workshop it's about them taking it into their lives and doing it then and that's you know the stuff that really fills me up the most is when someone sends an email from a year before who was in a workshop and be like since I did that I've done XYZ thank you so much yeah you know little things like starting a meeting at work and not going straight to business but talking about like what's front of mind for

you at the moment yeah some people fucking hate that shit I know right but if they weren't in my workshop what is this hippie shit yeah but I think that's just ego and fear of vulnerability fear it's fear of vulnerability fear of something different everyone's always scared of something different yeah I stole that line from cool runnings but it's so true yeah those things can have a huge impact like the little things like you know that touching base before you actually get to business can have a transcendent impact does those like messages and emails and

things do they help you kind of find something to grab onto when you're swimming in deep water yourself yeah I think I've always been really lucky in that like I work so consistently and running workshops and I make everyone fill out evaluation forms so I know what I'm doing is either going alright or areas where I can improve yeah so I do get that consistently I think the thing that helps me through those deep waters is giving myself the chance to talk and to open up and yeah to write and to get thoughts out or

to go to the gym and do something physical you know the iron doesn't lie like that sort of perspective hundred kilos love that shit yeah yeah you know everyone's talks about that shit a lot is like you know doesn't matter like hundred kilos hundred kilos yeah yeah I'm having a good day shit day you know that in that moment you're present because you have to be yeah yeah yeah I love I love that kind of like someone will get out of a second oh well that felt heavy didn't feel heavy last week and it's like

it's okay like you're not exactly the same person you were last week you haven't had the same day you haven't like there's so many different variables you probably haven't thought about and people get so frustrated themselves when they can't do something they could do a week ago and it's just like well you know look at the last few days like how are you feeling like up top like have you like you've had like knowing most of my guys fairly intimately it's it's helps with coaching because I can kind of say like just stop for a

second and have a think about the last two days you've had like and they'll be like oh yeah I guess like you know and it's that being kind of to yourself and being able to kind of go oh actually I'm doing doing pretty well like showing like I love the bouncing between two ideas one being yeah showing up is enough and the other one being showing up isn't enough it's like you just gotta show up like if you're struggling and things aren't going well you've just got to show up if you're pumping and everything's rolling

showing up isn't enough you have to be intentional and make sure you make the most of it and like it's almost fighting between two opposing ideas but I think it's really important to do both at certain times but to know yourself and be aware of yourself well enough to go okay so I just need to show up yeah you know the footy club that I work for that's our big motto is turn up yeah you know like we'll ask players like have you turned up today right yeah did you turn up and that can have

two different connotations can't it yeah exactly and so that's a real driver behavior driver and a metric that we look at you know we we look at a lot of different things um at Oakley um but turning up is a is a huge part of that physically mentally being present it's huge turn up and it's not just for yourself it's turn up for the person next to you yeah or any any team has to has to go in with that otherwise you're not a team you're just a group of individuals hanging out together yeah exactly

what's that kind of being present and like presence is like a big buzz word at the moment I don't know it's one of those things that keeps coming out what is being present what does that mean um you know I guess mindfulness is probably the buzzword um in life and society for the last couple of years um but it's just being very aware of what's happening in that moment so like right now I know that I'm sitting here talking to you um there's a bottle of water sparkling here the bubbles bubbles are popping yeah like

very aware of that as soon as you start to think elsewhere like bang you're gone you're not present anymore um you know and for me it goes back to like right at the very start of this conversation talking about those flow that being in the zone to feeling alive like present yeah yeah and it can be simple like you know I ride a motorcycle and like you can't be thinking of other shit like when you're riding a motorcycle in Melbourne like yeah do that bang you're gone yeah too much shit going on martial arts when

I was still competing like you have to be present every second yeah acting like when I've done that you have to be present because there's always direct results in those things when you're not um life you can get away with it a little bit but I guess the thing in life is then it becomes death by a thousand cuts you don't realize the cost yeah by not being present because it's just gradual little incremental things yeah and next thing you know the six months two years three years just goes like that and you don't really

get to experience it and appreciate it it's like how many relationships do you hear fail because one person will say they weren't there enough or I wasn't there enough and it's the same shit yeah I got a really good quote about that somewhere but I just swapped into a new diary so I think it's in the old one but it's about love love never dies like it's always it it's always um either you lose touch because you focus on other things or or something like that and I just thought that was the most perfect like

little analogy for it I don't think I'm ever gonna I don't think I'm gonna find it it's too much shit going on here a lot of words in your diaries yeah but okay not super important I've got three questions of you to finish off it's a little bit stealing from what we're talking about before but I want to kind of do one reflection one now and one looking forward what are you most proud of kind of like achieving or doing or experiencing this year the fact that I moved state very quickly to support my family

to be there for a support and left would have been really easy to stay living where I was doing what I was and so the fact that I did that without a hesitation and I do it cost a lot like there was a lot of collateral damage with that but I would do it a hundred out of a hundred times to be there for my family and that you know throughout the whole year and there's been a lot of moments where it's like I wish I had my time back but that's one thing where I

would do it every single time I like that it's good to be able to kind of know that you do that and know that even though there's collateral damage there's sacrifice to everything but to be able to and I'm sure your family knowing that you would do that time and time again it's pretty epic it's huge the current one what are you most confident about what am I most confident about um that's a great question I don't think I've ever been asked that question before so and that does not happen very often it took us

an hour and four days in general I get asked a lot of questions in my life and a lot of all sorts of things but um I think what I'm most confident about is that everything will be okay I don't know how long it will take um but it will eventually it'll be okay it's a really good answer yeah that's good what are you most excited for um I think um I'm pushing really hard to um have a holiday next year um I don't I that's one of my big things that um I really am

shit at is taking holidays yeah um and doing things like there's your chance for reflection yeah um you know if I have a sick day um I can't help but like lift up the laptop lid and start like doing work um just having a break um and getting out of my comfort zone a little bit with that so what's what's the uh is there a place or a an experience you want to dive into um I wouldn't mind going to I mean there's so many things on my list right now um you know from uh

going to South America um you know and spending a month in Brazil um jiu-jitsu in the morning surfing in the afternoon or vice versa yeah uh doing that for a month that sounds shit um not um I'd do that there to um you know going back to Thailand and um spending you know a month or two at a kickboxing camp and just like singularity focusing on one thing yeah every single day and just like sharpen the sword so to speak um to you know going to Malta um and you know catching up with family um

you know there's there's a lot of things um you know I'm trying to convince my cousin to um get a motorcycle license so that we can then ride a motorcycle from either the South to North of New Zealand or North to South um yeah that's something that's on my bucket list to do at some point so any of those things would be nice book one in me yeah I use the term positive pressure with that stuff it's like I did the South America trip when I didn't really have the financial stability to be able to

do it and we didn't have all the structure in place that was for me to be able to leave but did I did it six months out knowing that well I'm gonna fucking make that happen over the next six months and I did and it worked and like there were heaps of holes opened up and like not bad holes but we realized what needed to be filled and that has all it's done is strengthened everything and I think you've been able to kind of book that a period in advance we'll kind of go okay well

I've got that coming up now I've got to dive into some deep work or yeah there's um it's definitely it'll definitely happen in 2019 um I'll do that yeah absolutely um I've got some pretty exciting things happening um in sport I can't really talk about yet so hopefully next time I can tell you about that whole process um but yeah definitely I think I'm probably leaning towards the Brazil or the Thailand thing um and the thing that I'm not allowed to talk about I'm really excited about doing because that'll be um huge yeah um and

yeah I think I'm also just really excited to um work with different people um this year like I'm starting like I've cut my hours a little bit at work to um to just do a couple of days a week so I'm doing three days a week um and just facilitating and creating content um to then doing the workplace which you know that extra two days of the working week means I can do a bit more freelance stuff and going to other companies and sporting teams and do my own thing um which pump that creativity vein

yeah exactly and not have to do things to a certain structure yeah so I like that looking forward to that good how can people either book you to get into into their businesses or just get around you yeah uh hit me up on LinkedIn that's the um that's the thing I've been told I need to improve my LinkedIn presence so I've been doing that the last couple of months uh so just Jeremy Dooley um look for me on LinkedIn I've got a big beard um you can't miss it beautiful beautiful beard thank you thank you

I have I swear you shaved it and it grew back in like a week yeah yeah I had to roll the dice that time you know so I was either shave my head or I thought I'll shave my beard it's so good it's so thick so yeah I always I'm putting up stuff around like um workshops that I have run and focus on that and also like my sort of thoughts on coaching and mentoring um so yeah LinkedIn's the best best place to get me I'm getting you in for us yeah absolutely we're making it

happen for sure um I found that quote to finish off didn't mean to throw my pen in love never dies a natural death it dies because we don't know how to replenish its source it dies of blindness and errors and betrayals it dies of illness and wounds it dies of weariness of witherings of tarnishing ponder that yeah see you at the end thanks for coming cheers thank you