S1E63 · 15 Minute thoughts: Part 2 (Wallace, Terlaak, Cooper)

Hey team, so before we get stuck into today's episode, which is a part two of last week's episode, I would like to thank everyone for listening, I guess the whole intention of the podcast is to be able to have meaningful conversation with awesome people, so to know that there's a couple hundred of you guys listening every week is a pretty cool feeling. So thank you, if you are enjoying the podcast and you have suggestions for guests or topics or anything, please send me a message, let us know, hit me up on Instagram or email or

anything like that, or if you have other people that you think might benefit from these conversations then please send them a link, pause it for a second, jump on your phone, press that little share button and send it to someone who you think might get something out of these conversations. We are also on Spotify now, so apparently that's good, so for you Android humans, for anyone that, or iPhone as well, so Apple and Android, we're now available on Spotify for you, well you're already going to know because you're listening to it, so you're going to

know where we're available, but if you are listening on iTunes and you wanted to jump on Spotify, you can do that, if you're listening on Podbean, same dealio, but yeah, today's episode is part two of Coop and Tommy chatting about certain topics for 15 minutes, we got three topics today, heavily based around happiness, so I hope you guys enjoy it, let's get stuck and see. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day, I believe everyone, especially normal people have a story to tell, the Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests.

Alright, we're at week two of Coop and Tommy and Lockie talk things for 15 minutes, so if you missed last week, shoot yourself back to pause, pause for a second and scroll a little bit down in your podcast feed and jump back into episode 62 part one of this episode where we spoke about a bunch of different stuff, this is just a follow on from that, so we've got three more topics, we'll set the duck up, Samuel L Quackson to quack every 15 minutes and see what we dive into, so first topic for the day

lads, oh good, this is Tommy's, the Virtus podcast just got a sponsor, three exclamation marks, Made Up Travel Incorporated has given us $10,000 to spend on a trip for three of us, where do we go? What do we do? Good, let's do it, really good, awesome, Coop start, yeah, man, $10,000, three of us, good, so I think it'd be cool to do, I know Lockie's already done it, but South America would be awesome or Africa, yeah, yeah, I don't think any of us would be to Africa, I think we're talking about more uncharted, more, less

civilised, as we would call it civilised I guess, like western civilised, yeah, we can talk about happiness levels and stuff and obviously what we would as living in affluent first world societies, the happiness levels that we have as a society are lower than those of some third world countries and war torn areas and stuff like that, but that's for another topic, but I think what I'd love to do would be, and this kind of helps with my way of how I like to travel, but I would love to do a kind of, like we pack,

a package, like perfect world, we do a package, we all go to the airport and we just jump on one of the first five flights, but it needed to be to another continent, so I think we'd put it maybe in a hat, we go Europe, South America, North America, Africa, and go to one of them, or like Asia, and just kind of raffle it off, and give ourselves maybe like 10k, obviously we wouldn't go that far, depends on where you are, I feel like in Asia it could go a fair way, so we can dip

into our savings, just go, we're jumping on a flight, obviously there's got to be somewhere we can need a visa, and then we just travel from there, and then we just decide as we go, what kind of stuff would you want to do on the way, like what are things that you do on your travels, for me, I'm always looking for like coffee, obviously, that's a big thing for me, reason being, from my experience, I've always found that baristas and those kind of hospitality people are very plugged into the culture, they understand where to go

for drinks later, or where to go get the best local cuisine, what to do, and what not to get stuck into doing the touristy, generic version of that city or place, they're so plugged in, and like imagine if someone came to Virtus, or came to common folk, when I was working, and said hey I'm over here from Norway, what do you do on the peninsula, they're like oh man, you do this, you do this, you don't go to Jenny Road because they suck, no you definitely do, because Jenny Road is amazing, and their paella is

one of the best, you're welcome grip, it's not enough, because it's only 5.8%, but you would tell them so many amazing things to do, and you would get so excited and genuinely proud about your vacation, so trying to find some plugged in similar aged people in those places is such a great way to kick off, and often you'll see the sights, so for instance in New York, you're going to go past Times Square on your way to get good coffee and food, it's going to happen, instead of maybe intentionally doing those things, like obviously in

some places you have to, but yeah, you'll get a locals experience instead of going on the tour, or doing the generic version of it, experience how a local would see the Empire State Building daily from a different location than whatever else kind of does to see it, that's a great example, everyone got the Empire State Building to get a great view, but if you go up the Chrysler Building, then you get to see the Empire State, and you get that from learning from locals, there's this really cool rooftop bar which has an amazing view, and

really good cocktails, and you can see it from there, learning that from a local, you can build a relationship and a friendship and those kind of things. I just saw this guy take me on a tour of Bolivia, a tour of La Paz in Bolivia, so it's just like how cool is this, he's been here a week and a half, I'm like what are the best bits, he's been lucky enough to meet a few locals, and I've jumped in, we hung out for the day and just did some really cool shit, and it was just like, exactly.

I would have done none of this if it was just me, so I think, going on from that point is just, two kind of reasons I travel is just to experience cool shit that I haven't done or seen or whatever before, the unknown, because I guess I've got a fairly structured lifestyle, you'll find me in the same place at the same time most days, so having that lack of structure is really important to me, and just meeting cool people, so like, obviously you get to a point where maybe you grow out of hostels a little

bit, but I loved being in hostels and just sitting at a bar or having breakfast and just talking to people, like I met some, like I'll use my latest adventure as an example, but from when I left the group we were with for the last three weeks, I just did what I felt I wanted to do, like I knew where I was going, I knew three or four stops along the way, but how I was going to spend those last three weeks, I didn't really know, and the people I met and connected with still see

this stuff popping up on Facebook now and Instagram, so I've been able to connect with people from all over the world, so I think that connection is a big part, and that's what's important to me as well, but I think for the next trip, or the next big trip if we were to go, like I'd love to get a group of my favourite people in the world to do that kind of trip, so not as structured, we go here, we go here, we go here, on this day we do this, on this day we do

this, like it's just, you know, if we want to stay this place for an extra week we do, if we want to, you know, grab our stuff and jump on a plane to somewhere else, let's do it, like, I think the autonomy to be able to make those decisions will do that, but then the balls to be able to actually execute some of them, rather than just saying "oh, we should do this", and not do it. Some countries are easier to do it than others, like, so, trips I've done with Danny and Heath in the past, book stuff like the afternoon/evening, I'll be like "oh, we're off, like, where are we staying tonight?"

Like, it doesn't matter, very easy in America because so many apps and things that you can use and 24 hour check-ins is the best thing, that's big advice, find those at 24 hour check-ins, because you never know what time you get them sometimes. But yeah, just having that ability to go, the day's mine, I can start it when I want to start it, and I can finish it when I want to finish it, and I can get exactly out of it what I want, and to be honest, like, the things that go wrong, like, missing trains in Scotland with Danny and things like that, they make for the best stories and experiences.

You don't really remember the stuff that goes exactly to plan, like, as much, you remember the stuff that went a bit awry, a bit unexpected, like, if it goes exactly how you thought it was, why are you travelling? Like, you just stayed home and imagined it, to some degree, like, you want the uniqueness and the experience. Those unique experiences, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and being able to experience it and share it with the people you love is probably like the best part of it, but also have those experiences and those times when you can just

go and do it by yourself, I think I've talked about solitude a little bit, but I think it's really important to want to, or to understand what it's like to be by yourself and not necessarily need someone else there to enjoy it, like, I know that, say, if one of you boys or KP came with me on that trip, it would still have been amazing, but it would have been different, yeah. So, I'd love to go back and experience, like, Machu Picchu and Iguazu Falls and Patagonia with other people, because I get a whole different

look at it, and how people say, like, I'm guilty of it every now and again before I catch myself, but like, oh, I've done New Zealand or I've done South America, like, I've been to one percent of that experience, of that area. Yeah, totally. And, I don't know, you can go back to the, like, I could go back to the same hostels in Bolivia and meet completely different people from a completely different world and have a different experience. There's definitely value in doing things by yourself, and I agree, like, I went to the US by

myself, and I loved it, and I loved being able to just do my own thing and having the independence to, if I want to go somewhere one day, then I'll go and do it without having to check with someone else and make sure that they want to do that as well, but saying that, I'd love to go back, and I'd love to go back with some mates or with Sallyanne and do the same trip, and it would be completely different, and I think I would, I think I probably would enjoy it now a lot more than I would, than I did when I was by myself.

And it's knowing each other that you go with, so, like, I know that there's a good chance that we'd probably get on really well going on a trip because we believe the same things in terms of, like, we want to have that exploration part of it and not just everything locked in. We want to have similar experiences. Yeah. Some people are more compatible to travel than others. Some people like structured, organised, because that couldn't deal with the, I don't know, unknown. What's the thing? It's uncertainty. In some places you can't be that, as much as you'd like to be free and in the wind, you just can't.

Especially those, like you said, undeveloped countries where... Add a different language into the mix, and things like that. That's where it gets really difficult, right, like, I was really lucky for the first two or three weeks of the South American trip that we were with a bunch of people that spoke Spanish. Great. So we were kind of learning off them on the go, so by the time that I was by myself, I could comprehend what people were saying in certain situations, and I was able to actually communicate what I was trying to say. Then when I got to Brazil for a week, that was quite difficult because I didn't speak any Portuguese.

You could recite the Nando's menu, but that's about it. What was it like being not able to speak the language by yourself? I experienced it in France with Georgie, where we were speaking English, and they can speak English, but it's like, we're kind of isolated, and it's kind of a really different nice feeling to be just the two of us talking. What was it like being by yourself? I really enjoyed it, like, I was scared, not scared as in scared to my safety or anything, but I was like, "I don't know what the fuck I'm doing."

One time I got off a bus at 11.30 at night and jumped in a taxi and just kind of like trying to... I just winged it, I'm just trying to use hand signals and stuff as to sleep, and Google Translate wasn't working for Portuguese because I thought it would download, but it hadn't. So it was cool because they get it, that you don't speak the language, and it's not a "well fuck you, you don't speak the language" thing, it's like, "oh, just help." And I think I've always kind of had that belief that most people

just want to help, and yes, some people are going to take advantage of that, but I was fortunate enough to not feel unsafe and not feel like that was going to happen. But it was really cool because I was just stuck in my head, and I was able to experience... It's kind of like being a fly on the wall in a different country. People watch for a couple of days, I just completely zoned out of having to think sometimes because I was just watching, and it was hard, but it was relatively easy once I let

go of the need for control and the need to do it, because I think I could have made myself really anxious and really frustrated if I let it get to me. Become detached from your situation, and it's that acceptance of, "I'm in this environment which I'm familiar with, and maybe a little bit uncomfortable with, but..." Getting buses was hard, but yeah, I'd point to a map and go, "Iguazu," but they say it differently. They say, "Oh, such a creep." Yeah, I can't remember what the word was, but there was one word that we were saying wrong the whole time, and it was something really, "Oh, it's going to drive me crazy."

It was something really obvious, but I was trying to say it, and it's just like, "Oh, no." There was, when we were in Japan, Kyle and I got to the station, somehow bought a ticket. We were literally from Tokyo to getting on the Shinkansen bullet train to getting on the local train. We talked to a couple of people and had no idea what they were saying, and they had no idea what we were saying, but we were just trying to point to maps and stuff. But then we got to Myoko, where the Johnson's Hotel is, and so the hotel's called Refre, get around it.

So there was literally 11 or 13 at night, and I'm going to stop traveling places really late at night, but it was snowing, we had our bags, I didn't have any snow gear because I was borrowing it all off the dam while we were there, and we were like, there was one taxi driver. There was no one for a while, then one taxi driver pulls up, and we said, "Refre Hotel." We knew it was close, it's in the same little, I don't know if you'd call it a suburb, but it was like, no idea, we

had no clue, we couldn't find the address, we obviously didn't have any Wi-Fi or anything like that, Dan had just gone out and drank beers instead of coming and hanging out and coming to find us. Priorities. Priorities. But, so it turns out, it's really simple, Japanese don't pronounce Rs, it's not part of their language, so it's left leg, so it's an L instead of an R, and it took him calling another taxi driver friend, and that taxi driver friend calling another taxi driver friend for him to go, "Left leg?" I guess. Let's just leave there, I don't get it.

So there's the, from grade one to year nine doing Japanese, did "Fuck All" for me. But just like, it's such a simple, like such a simple thing for you to not be able to communicate basic things, but I'll remember that feeling of like, oh we're fucked here, we have no idea what we're doing. I had one in France, and I had an exchange with a French guy, and I made him believe I was French, because I didn't say a word of English, I was like, go back to the car, I was like, he thinks I'm French, like, did that please any English?

I was like, bonjour, merci, bonjour. He doesn't even know I'm Australian, it's like, I reckon you knew, he probably did, in my mind, I was like, didn't have to speak English, what a winner, just little things like that, they make, I don't know. Do you guys have like one travel destination that you want to go to, like before you, before you die, or before you die? So many. I think two many. I don't have one where I'm just like, that's where I want to go to the next level. Philippines is going to be our next

trip, and it's going to be awesome, but it's not like there's one place there that I want to go, like Machu Picchu was like one, Patagonia was one. It'd be cool to see all the seven wonders. I reckon that'd be something that, even though they're such, it's almost like, it's such a popular tourist destination that it kind of ruins it. Yeah, I realise there's reasons for it though, like, it's just down at the top of the Guadalupe Falls, or like, it's down top of Machu Picchu, you're just like, this is going to be, like people are going to talk it up too much, it's going to be one of those underwhelming things, and they're just like, wow.

I had that with the Grand Canyon, we talked about it so many times, like, eh, like cool, but I'd just come through, like I did the north side with Heath, and then back down through Flagstaff to the south, where you go into it, and I was like, I've just seen all these canyons, it's kind of like, underwhelmed me now, like, and some of the other stuff was like more incredible and more remote and more unique, like, I think, yeah, it's so hard to just like, have to like, yeah, it was like, yeah, I imagine like

standing in front of the pyramids, yeah, that would be pretty epic, and just to think that humans, a human civilisation, 3000 years ago, let's not open up a Pandora's box mate, I don't know if it was humans, well, if I edited my podcast, I could put the X-Files music over the top of this, yeah, I think I'd love to go to Antarctica, but it's not like, yeah, like rude, like pulling at me, yeah, and it's pyramids and like colosseum, I think it'd be really cool to, this is a bit random, but somewhere like Iran, yeah,

that'd be pretty cool, yeah, I've had people I've talked to who've gone there say that even though there's such like a stigma around it, that the people there are actually lovely, the food's awesome, but there's no real feeling of being unsafe, yeah, North Korea, yeah, imagine, there's a line like, I have no desire, I just like, what the heck's going on in here, yeah, like to be able to get in and out safely, it's like, what's going on, like, that used to be a Michael Jordan person, but now it's like Kim just like dunking, what

the heck, like what's going on in there, and you hear the joke about all those articles where I wonder like how much of it is actually true propaganda, what's actually happening on the inside, just to be like, yeah, you're kidding me, this is happening, yeah, it's a different world, yeah, yeah, that would be so weird, like my kind of desire around travel now, like rightly or wrongly is to experience more countries, yeah, so like, you know, it's not a like tick the boxes, just get there, but think of the 12 or 13 countries I've been

to, each one I've got specific memories from, either like who I was with or what it was like, yeah, and you know, if I can have, if I can add another 30 countries, so at least over the next 10 years, then awesome, yeah, next one, sorry, I forgot to start the timer for that, so it was like a little longer, but that's okay, play on, as you were, whose do I go with that, yeah, I might put that on, so the next one's something that, so this is a conversation, part of a conversation that we've

had and that it came up again this morning, so I was like, I'll just throw it in, it's reciprocity, so doing things because you either, like why do we do nice things for other people and why do we create things and why do we have certain conversations and why do we put ourselves in positions, is it for our own benefit or is it for the other person's benefit and do we do it, always expecting nothing in return, do we have that subconscious, I'm gonna do this nice thing because it might come back to me, yeah, what do you guys think?

- For me, I don't know, I'd like to think and I think a lot of people have told me it, but I do live my life very much trying to serve others and do everything for other people, probably, and you've told me this and other people have told me this, I need to look after myself a bit better, but I just, it's probably a lot to do with my faith and I just think the philosophy is if you live to help and benefit other people, they'll do the same and it will come back to you,

I get a lot of self-fulfillment and purpose from doing stuff for other people, so it doesn't feel like a chore, it doesn't feel like you're waiting for it to be returned or you're not keeping checks and balances, it's very much you do it because you believe that that's the best way to live and you're building up the community and making the community better and the world a better place slowly, just living selflessly for me is, it's how I've lived for, probably since like 19 now, consciously, all those years ago, so long ago, very clean-shaven back

then, it's much better now, I shaved it but it's coming back, you definitely did that for yourself because no one else wants to see your face. Wow, savage. But no, I don't know, it's like I totally get it and I think there's a balance, I think there's a balance but for me, I would skew more to looking after others and living to help build others up, hoping that that would then come back. Yeah, not expecting it but like hoping that by doing that, I'm making the world a better place and that I'll be lifted up, like what's that quote about like a rising tide?

A rising tide floats all boats. Yeah, so in that floats all boats, good, I paraphrase it but that's probably how I would think about it, if I'm doing my part to kind of build up everyone else, I'll kind of get dragged up with and be looked after in that kind of respect. I think all of our responses are going to be fairly similar in that our vision or our purpose is to help, is to serve others and make the world a better place and by serving others will be fulfilled ourselves and there's something, I was

listening to a podcast the other day with Logan again, I'm fangirling a lot at the moment, but he was talking about how to make the world a better place or how to be a better human and let that serve the community or the broader community is to give back to others but that needs to come from a place of self-respect and come from a place of truth rather than a place of self-sacrifice so you're not serving others to be a martyr and to be seen as someone who you're so selfless and you're such a giver

and such a good person, that's not the reason why we do it, we do it for the sole purpose to help others and lift them up. It's like a parent sacrificing their quality of life for their kids and in the end doesn't help because then the kids see that cycle and that parent needs to be looking after their kids but teaching them how important it is to respect themselves and to look after themselves and their time is valuable and all that kind of stuff because you see those certain relationships in our society where, we'll use a parent for example, where kids just walk all over them because the parent just wants to please their kids.

That's likely to come back later in life when they expect the child to look after them in their retirement or when they need the help themselves. I kind of look at this from a couple of different angles, you need to look after yourself first, you need to create your environment, cultivate your life first otherwise you're giving from a place where you're losing ground. If you cultivate your mindset, environment, work ethic, all those kind of things you can give a lot more and it's like we talked about before about not being money driven and I'm definitely not money driven, if anything I want less in my life to make it more fulfilling.

Minimalism was something I was going to talk about today but I forgot to write it down. I find more joy with less, I'm trying to find more joy in less and I am in certain areas of my life but if I don't have energy and time and things to give then I can't necessarily create momentum for anyone else, we use the example of our birthday bash every year, how we try and raise money for Ry. First of all I do that for Ry but I get a whole lot of happy, fluttery feelings when I see

that make a difference and I see our community get around those legends and see them actually help so I think everyone wants to help but there is no such thing as true altruism where you help purely for the benefit of someone else and without anything in return. You do need to be selfish sometimes I think. I think like you were saying it'll come back and it does but what we need to understand is that if I tip in and help say you with something for the next six months then I don't need to expect something back from you but it'll come back in other parts of my life.

It doesn't have to come back from that person. It's not a direct trade for trade. No, it's not a checks and balances either, and like we talked about with time, your time is more valuable sometimes than you realise. It's the act of sacrificing for someone else potentially or giving up something for someone else or trying to do something for someone else. It'll come back and someone else will want to do something for you and look after you and it might not be the same person, it might be someone else, it might be in a different way but that's how I feel and I want to live in a community that's like that, that looks after others.

I think flip it to a community that looks after, well it's not a community then. If you're just looking after yourself, that's the issue for me is looking after yourself first is important I agree but if you're always looking, how can I fix myself, how can I make myself better but then you're not sharing that outwardly. You might be a better person factually but if you're not then using that to help build your community back up, what's the point? It's just that ecosystem of people that want to help and want to support you and then everyone in your circle are getting around you when you're up and about but then getting up and helping you when you're not.

Like I mentioned before, grant someone that I see him struggling with shit at work and my first thing is I just want to help him look after himself a little better or give him a sounding board for what's going on and stuff like that and then a week later, I just do that because it makes me feel better being able to help and I know that it will help him but a week later he'll be like you look like shit what's up and it's just that honest ability to be able to communicate with each other and around what's happening and there's so many.

I find myself, the people and the circles that I'm portraying myself in with, people start to notice more when you're up and when you're not and you're actually able to, like I don't have faith like you have faith, I don't believe in a higher divine power or anything like that but I think one of the things I do believe in is this energy. The more energy that you can create within yourself and give out, the more it will come back to you. One of the nicest things anyone's ever said to me, most of us have

heard the quote "if you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's" and guess what they have planned for you? Not much. I really like that quote in the fact that you're responsible and you're in charge of whatever the fuck happens to you in life but one of the things that Greg said to me once was and he kind of said it to the team but he said "except for Lockie who's trying to design a mutually beneficial life plan" and like I remember he probably just said it and he probably

would have forgotten but it was something that I remembered and I was just like that is exactly what I'm trying to do because it's what's good for the swarm is good for the bee kind of thing like if I try by myself and fail then I fail, if I try by myself and succeed then I succeed but that's not enough for me like I want that group of people, that community, that family of people that are in it for the long term like it doesn't have to be in it for the long term in terms

of in the same position doing the same shit in 20 years but if it's a part of your life or a chapter in your life or a season in your life and you move on then hopefully in 20 years you can look back and say "I had a part of that" like every staff member we've had that aren't still with us had a big part in where we are now which is awesome and I hope they can look back on that fondly like if you decided in like say you loaded up a convo for the

next five years and you decided to leave you've left it in a better position than when you got there or if it's the other side and you're still there in 30 years you're like fuck how cool is this thing we've created yeah there's been a bunch of people through but that core group of people that you've been able to cultivate and create that with like how good your relationship is going to be and your respect for each other and your love for each other because there's that just that constant consistent tipping in year after year

after year yeah and I think it goes back to that sacrifices and stuff as well like there's times where you forego something or you you do something for the benefit of someone else or for the business or you do those things and you live in a way that's for others and there's an expectation that like one day it will be my turn and this will be the right one and it's gonna be so much better yeah that I foregone that prior opportunity which I could have selfishly taken or so like I've talked about on the

previous podcast with that New York opportunity with Roasting Coffee like it was there it was on the table it was ready to go but it wasn't right and I had to go with Commafolk and stick with Commafolk and yeah look at me now like two years on from that yeah but like I could have easily been two years into being in New York yeah might have been miserable might have had the money wouldn't have had any of this community that I currently have now yeah so many things so sometimes doing something for others and sacrificing

so doing something that I thought was the best for Commafolk and then probably me as well there's there's so many things that you've been able to grow like unintentionally but not expect like you did may not have expected to have these same communities yeah things like that but I think people want to give to selfless people as well it's you don't want to sacrifice something yourself to give to a selfish person yeah it's very hard whereas if you see someone else who's living to benefit others like yourself like you too yeah are both trying to

better other people at home I'm happy to donate time and effort and things to you guys because I'm like they're going to appreciate it so I think that's how and you do it out of out of love and respect rather than out of the need to get something whereas if it's a selfish kind of person that's receiving it you're like well that's going to fall on dead ears and they don't really give a crap because they're not going to then pass that on to someone else and I think like I want to create an environment

where people get a lot but also have to give a lot because then everyone's tipping into the well and rather than it just being a everyone's serving each other themselves everyone's serving the greater to serve themselves they serve each other yeah and it obviously is where it gets difficult right because everyone's got their own purpose everyone wants to look after themselves everyone you know if we have basic income then maybe it's not an issue as much but like one of the one of the like analogies I've used in the past is like the friendships like

a bank account and like friendship relationships whatever like there might be a six-month period where like say Coop's going through some stuff where I've got to keep chipping into that bank account like every week I got to make a deposit and I look after him and and then you know eventually when he's kind of working through it like he might start he might have a full bank account he's able to start giving to someone else and start filling their bank account and then obviously like you know he'll throw back into my bank account and then

you constantly yeah like constantly rising it up and you're not just take take take take take because friendships sometimes like it's take take take take for a long period of time but usually if you have that relationship with someone you know you know that this is just a season or this is just a period of time where they need they need my like my funds to fuel their bank account and then you know Coop might give someone else give someone else give someone else and obviously it's a big web of that but yeah and you know when I need help like I know that I've got people around me to help fuel my bank account.

Yeah it's hard to know when to on the flip side it's hard to know when to withdraw your funds and put them somewhere else it's so hard to help and that's why I think it's and this is a good group of people as well because I think we're very good at like if I see you down I'll like hey let's go to breakfast or let's do something and tell you hey you need to take some time for yourself you need to not do this or I think that's how we handle them a lot. Yeah. I will.

You probably have to shake your face and then we can both be clean skinned. Oh I think gross I might do it. But I think having close friends like that that you give and receive from you can then kind of tell them to withdraw some from the bank account as opposed to like just waiting for them like I'll tell you when you need when I need to give you some more time and effort and energy and yeah and you've got to know who's going to like who you can actually give your money to and know

that not necessarily that we give back to you but they'll be able to give back someone else right like if I'm struggling and going through some some hard times like my however many thousand Instagram followers I've got aren't gonna jump on the phone and call me and ask me how I'm going right same with Facebook like so we've got to understand that that human connection and actually the people around us they're the people that you need to ask for help like yeah like don't put some like a message like out there to the world because

you're just you know those likes aren't gonna like that don't mean no one's gonna tell you something exactly how's this serving how's this gonna serve anyone yeah well that's exactly like it's if I put out there like I'm not doing well maybe I'll get a couple of messages but if I come to tell me you'll come to the coupe or or go to someone at the gym like okay I'm like I'm struggling like honey it's real it's real and you can actually have that connection this is going to tie really well into the next topic

but a sense of like connection and community is what promotes our sense of fulfillment and happiness and so the next topic what is happiness to you so like this song that I thought the thing about a lot recently it's been in a lot of books that I've been reading and like what what is happiness and how do we define it and how do we another question is how do we quantify it but to me this is a theory I'm working on it's called the pyramid of happiness it's not really a pyramid it's more of a

triangle but coops gonna copyright this the dodecahedron of happiness so for me happiness boils down to three things it's connection fulfillment and environment and if you can cultivate those three things then for me I'll be I'll be happy and reading a lot about connection and having community and people around you that are serving you and you're serving others is just it like we kept coming back to it in this in this last conversation Lachlan's created a bit of a image which we might be able to share at some point but yeah I mean those three

things are things that we sometimes neglect like we might put ourselves in an environment which is detrimental to our happiness and detrimental to our sense of belonging and sense of fulfillment but if we surround ourself if we put ourself in an environment that there's no choice but to succeed or create connections then that's super valuable there's a book willpower doesn't work which is awesome and it's essentially just about how to create an environment that where there's no choice but to succeed or in this case there's no choice but to be happy so you've got to

cultivate an environment around you that that leads to that yeah what's your definition and like yeah what's important or what is it man like a lot of that is very similar I think being happy is more than just the light and fluffy like it's it's the recognition that sometimes it sucks yeah but being settled and happy in that as well like yeah I was understanding all of your emotions and all your feelings and all the situations and get into a point of like that's fine like cool I'm happy with that like yeah I think part

of yeah I was I was tossing whether to add two other elements in there make it a star but the stars but so under making it robust comes challenges and experience yeah like we've got a sense of satisfaction of overcoming challenges yeah yeah and the experience the experiences that we have that can contribute to the connection and contributes to our fulfillment yes it's super important I actually believe very similar to what you guys believe but I think from for me and like going through and working on like these kind of theories and thoughts I think

happiness is your ability to be going through a difficult painful like stuff like you're going through suffering and being able to whilst in that period of suffering be able to understand that it's just a phase and it's just a season it's just a learning curve that it's like the universe's way of challenging challenging challenging you to adapt and and overcome whatever it is that you're struggling with yeah and that allows you to be a little bit more aware a little bit more present in the good times and when things are going well yeah and like

actually stop and take a breath and like realize how far you've come in that that improvement gives you perspective perspective yeah yeah because I talked about this in my first podcast was like you need that very very bottom end to like show how high the mountaintop is like yeah yeah if everyone was always up up up like yeah it doesn't seem that up we don't you know look at the like you know climbing a mountain for example like there's that really difficult times of climbing a mountain and there's times where on the way up there's

those downhills where you're like yes we're rolling now we're feeling good but then and then you then you hit with another uphill and eventually gets to the top of the mountain and you and you and you have a look over and you realize that there's another mountain that's a little bit higher yeah but between that getting to the top of that mountain and there's that descent that you've got to go down and you know where you actually start rolling and everything goes well for a while but then usually there's a big valley in between and

I think if we understand that it's not always good and it's not always bad sometimes you've just got to consolidate and and and move forward yeah and then that valley that is sometimes some people deal really well with with suffering and some people deal really well with success but most of us don't deal very well with lack of progress or lack of like we when we're walking through that valley there's no real ups or downs it's just you've just got to keep stepping left yeah right foot yeah so we lose that ability to see progress

or see a challenge even though the challenge is just continually moving like that whole if you're not growing you're dying thing I think like that's a really important part of my life and I think to if I'm standing still then I'm going backwards if I'm if I'm taking steps forward then even if I'm not moving as fast as I want something that's an interesting point as well not attaching our happiness to either goals or external yeah external things there was a I think it was in the 70s that there was this study done so a

while ago but I think it's still relevant that they the experimenters gave a bunch of people a survey and the the participants were people from varying income income level so there were people who were who are very poor not very wealthy and there were other people who are ultra wealthy and they examined the happiness levels of all these participants and there was no correlation between material wealth and yeah happiness and even the so while the the possession of resources or material objects contributed to unsatisfactions contribute towards unhappiness yeah there was no correlation between the having

what having having these resources so it didn't make you any happier to have resources and there's materialistic things yeah so having being attached to material material resources yeah is not going to make you any happier no it's the it's the cultivation of relationships and meaningful experiences that make us happy yeah well I think coming back to like Maslow's hierarchy of needs is something that I think we've mentioned it look in 62 episodes we talked about every topic at least a little bit but like having psychological physiological needs as one making sure that you're sleeping and

eating and have water and then safety second so like having somewhere to live and make sure you're not going to get eaten by a lion or a drop bear if you're from Australia like having social needs having that connection and then having that feeling of like that self-esteem and being able to actually feel good about yourself and have self-worth and then from there it's like self-actualization which is just growth so like I feel like we have these conversations because we're at the top of that pyramid like we've got like we all feel pretty good about

ourselves most of the time you know we have that love and belonging like we've got somewhere to live with we're safe where we've got enough food we've got enough water and everything so we're at that self-actualization stage for the majority of time yeah where we can actually look at like improving where we're at and not just surviving and I think it what is it like 80 grand is like what most like that's the how much you need to be happy any more than that's just extra or something like that I'm not sure I know that

like if you had more than yeah if you're in more than 30 grand 30,000 US dollars per year you're in the top 1% of the world so I mean that's a wrong well think about how many millions are in like South America and Africa and Asia who live off a dollar a day like yes like a meal there costs only a dollar compared to here where a meal cost 20 bucks yeah but it's relative but that's still I guess I guess I just put a hole in that but it's still it's still an interesting point

that yeah it's just reinforces that study like the having material well make you happy doesn't make you any happier yeah and quantifying it is super interesting as well like how if you compared one of us living in a relatively wealthy Western country yeah compared to someone in Southeast Asia like am I any happier than that person because I have all these you can drive a car you can jump on your laptop you can you know like all my photos on Instagram there's so in Bhutan and I think the UK looking to do this as well

they're actually quantifying happiness so they've gotten a happiness index where they yeah it's awesome so they look at I'm just looking at something out but they the index is based off nine domains psychological well-being health education time use cultural diversity and resilience good governance community vitality ecological diversity and resilience and standards so I think how they they calculate this is a whole bunch of people in their country and they give them a questionnaire based on all this stuff yeah and then they I assume it's something to do like economically they try and create be creating

this national happiness index to to build policy around yeah but that's I reckon that's super interesting like you're quantifying how people a subjective feeling yeah it's true but like it's it's perspective as well like definitely yeah someone with those boxes ticked should be categorically happy yeah someone that has less of those boxes but it's not it's not a constant constant knowing right like so like I think you're more more likely to be happy and happiness is easier and more accessible with those boxes ticked is all I can say like I mean I mean what more

can a government do then provide you with those things and if you're still not happy there's this yeah something I guess perspective and gratitude like you said perspective but gratitude and being able to go well here's what I have yeah and I love I love having this and it's like I even the days where like I'm stressed about bills or I'm stressed about like not being busy enough or not being able to find time to spend with people that I love it's well I have the autonomy to to move things around and I have the

ability to change things and like I'm in charge in like like I'm the captain of my ship I get to decide what I spend my minutes doing yeah even if it doesn't necessarily serve me right then and there like I know I'm tipping into like a bigger picture that's comes down to freedom like you've got the freedom to do what you want to do and to put your efforts and your energy into things that serve you yeah maybe that's the thing like qualifying happiness is the point where you have the freedom to make a decision

on what you do next that's my one to just it's like my one thing that I'm chasing like I think yes I've been lucky enough last couple of days yeah last couple of days I've had two conversations with people that have sought me out and come to me because they aren't sure what they want to do with their lives and like that's a really cool responsibility to have like and I kind of go into those conversations with I still have no fucking idea what I'm doing with my life like I love what I'm doing every

day but I'm still trying to figure it out and my first question I ask is what do you want to spend your day doing money was no object yeah but just like just like no other information is what do you want to spend your day doing and if kind of like we think about it and talk about a lot of people don't like what do you want to spend your day doing and it's like well I don't know like think about it like for me it's I want to have the freedom to do what I

want to do so everything that I'm doing comes back to freedom and money is a big part of that community is a big part of that connection is a big part of that growth in terms of personal development and personal and business development are two big parts of that because if I can cultivate all these different areas in my life podcast part of it then I have the freedom to jump on it and record this conversation like I have the freedom to sleep in and have breakfast with you this morning like yeah a freedom to

go to footy tonight and you know even though I'm not necessarily going to be happy getting up at 3 30 tomorrow morning to jump in the car like I have the freedom to get in a vehicle drive to pick up coop go to the airport and go on a little trip that's going to help us improve what we do so I think these are the yeah my final answer to that what is happening this question is just freedom yeah freedom is perspective yeah I'm going to make a hexagon hexagon look I'm happy to two amendments

we do have the lucky Wallace annex to the it's actually it's not a triangle it's a pyramid so there's another couple of extra yeah it's gone three extra points yeah there's only one extra point it depends on what kind of pyramid yeah triangular square it's a good question to finish off that question we've got 15 15 seconds left on the on the timer but I don't know I've been in a real bad habit lately of jumping onto YouTube and just going down rabbit holes like late at night so TED talks have been a big thing

but then following like themes from TED talks I'll dive into other ones Bob Marley interviewed came up yesterday about happiness and about being rich and I'm just gonna I'll play it for the people and we'll finish the podcast on this yeah it's a good question have you made say millions of dollars no are you a rich man when you mean rich what you mean you have a lot of possessions a lot of money in the bank position make you rich I don't I don't have that type of richness my richness is life forever so some

be good you