S1E59 · Tom Olden + Jarryd Palser: Educating for the future

Hey guys welcome to episode number 59 of the Virtus Performance Podcast. Today I sat down with Jared Pulsar, Pulsi who you would have heard from before episode number 4. He also interviewed me on 19 and 20 and he was in the crew that sat down for episode number 52 the Squadcast. So Pulsi is a teacher, he's an educator, he's an elite human so today we sat down with one of our good friends and one of Pulsi's colleagues Tommy Alden who is also a teacher. He runs the outdoor education and the IT divisions of the school

that those guys work at so today we kind of sat down and had a discussion around education, where it's going, how technology can make it better, how it can impact our learning in a negative way. We talked about sports for a bit, we talked about life, we just kind of had a cool conversation so hope you guys enjoyed the episode. If you are enjoying the episodes please share, subscribe, do all that stuff. I would love it if you could push the podcast to reach more people, enjoy. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day.

I believe everyone especially normal people have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. I am a good athlete, yeah but it's cycling, it's chess on wheels, it's chess on wheels, it really is, it really is. But like how do you forego a couple of hours sleep to watch the tour? I think it's just like, it's a pinnacle of endurance. It is sports in the world. Is it like Kona, pinnacle of endurance sports? That's over three disciplines.

Okay. There isn't a marathon to do about 200kms a day for 20 days. Yeah it's impressive. It's just uphill like this. Bullshit. Are they still doping? Yeah. Have you seen Icarus? Haven't seen it yet. Have you? Yeah I know everything about it already. From talking to other people. It's insane. Because that didn't help you. It didn't, like in terms of results. No. Yeah. But you need good luck. Yeah of course you need, all the others. You went backwards so much needs to happen for you to win. But the thing with doping is it doesn't necessarily guarantee you the win, it just makes you a better athlete.

But then the technical and tactical side of the sports doesn't change. Yeah. Oh absolutely. And you've got to have the mental power. Yeah it just doesn't make it easier though. But all the Russian stuff is kind of insane. Yeah. But if you haven't watched Icarus, get around it. I started recording by the way. Did you? We're on. Oh we're actually on. Yeah. Sneaky. I think my favourite cyclists are like the Peter Sagan. He's just a rockstar that's amazing at cycling. He still has chest hair and a beard and wears funky glasses. He's not about being his aero as possible.

He doesn't care, it's all in the legs. You're talking to someone that if an hour ago you asked me if the Tour de France was on at the moment, I would have been like I think so but I'm not sure. It's gonna get swallowed by the World Cup at the moment. Well that's true, that's true. Did any of you boys watch it, watch the last two games? Not a fan of that game. No? I was giving up already for VGT this morning and it was on in the background. Yeah? Yeah. I don't know. Soccer's an interesting one for me.

Like I, when big events are on like the World Cup I watch it but struggle to get into it via like a domestic league as the A league is. Which is a bit of a weirdness for me because I'm like the sport's tragic. Who would go watch table tennis on TV if it was on but soccer was... You cannot get into that. Can't get into soccer. I'd rather watch lawn bowls than soccer. Really? There's something about the World Cup like the, I guess the excitement around the World Cup like the Olympics that just gets me up and about.

Like I won't necessarily get up and watch much of it. Like I only watch the Aussie games and I watch half an hour of last night's game. Sorry to all the bombs out there. Go Croatia. But yeah, I don't know. There's just something about that time of the year with those sports. It just gets me up and about. Makes me want to... Soccer's an interesting game. Very strategic. And I don't think, I think it's a game too where sometimes you can be the better team on the day and lose. Which is, I don't know if it can happen in all sports but it seems to happen a fair bit in soccer more than any others I guess.

It's low percentage play after low percentage play. And whoever makes the most low percentage plays will win. Yeah, I think the Simpsons episode sums it up the best when the commentator's going nuts when he goes, "Send it back. Passes to right back. Passes to center back. Holds it. Holds it. Holds it." And it goes on and on like that. That's great. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's a weird sport. It's probably the most played in the world but I don't know. As Australians, I think we struggle to conceptualise the importance of it. You're used to fun sports like AFL and rugby.

Just something that's more action packed. I think that the game moves more dynamically. Are there any other sports in the world that will finish at either 0-0 or 1-0 and it's like, "Yes, that was a fantastic spectacle for 90 minutes." Ice hockey. They score more than soccer though, don't they? Games can be 1-0. Really? Yeah. There you go. But it could be like a soccer score. They can punch each other in the head. I think with soccer, the amount of things that are stimulating to watch per minute is just so low. Like in ice hockey it could be low scoring but three guys per minute get slammed into the wall and so you're happy about it.

And it goes up and down eight times. And you're engaged with it. Whereas you tap someone with your toe in soccer and someone falls over and the crowd shows they're just staying towards the umpire. And you can effectively park the bus and play a real defensive style game. Everyone who plays FIFA is just going, "Yeah, park the bus." Great reference. Put eleven guys and ten guys in front of the goalkeeper and try and hold out for as long as you can. Which can be successful as well. Try and win on a counter-attack. Interesting. What's the best sport in the world?

That's a good question. Like everyone's going to have their, like, with no real way of measuring it, everyone's going to have their own answer. But if you could pick one sport to watch or play for the rest of your life, what would it be? Watch or play? Yeah. I'm a big fan of European handball. I've never actually played the game. Or team handball as it's called in Europe. I just think it's just a combination of a lot of different sports that you can take elements of the sports that I like into. So things like basketball and footy and those kind of things.

It's fast-paced. Like, scores are like 60 to 50. There's a lot of good elements to it. Tommy? For me it's the obvious choice, which is basketball, which I've loved playing since I was small. But on the spectacle level, when you watch an NBA game, you've got the sheer athleticism of the players, especially given their size. You know, we rave off, Brodie Grundy covers the ground and Max Gaughan covers the ground. But LeBron James is the same height. And he can handle the ball like a point guard and throw down. The ball does bounce straight back onto a guy.

Yeah. And the agility of it. I'd like to see Max Gaughan vs LeBron James in one-on-one. So you've got the athleticism and especially for the size. Then you've got the skill component. So executing, shooting, ball handling, passing. And then it's tactical as well. So how you run your offense and defense and that sort of thing. There's a lot to it. From a physiological point of view, I really want to get around NBA for the athleticism because they're just specimens of athletes. But I just can't get into it. I'll watch it and I'll be like nah. I mean even with the introduction of 20 second time outs.

It can be a hard game to watch. Yeah. There's a lot of breaks and stuff like that. It's very intense. What's in American sports and short attention span. Quick breaks or short breaks. It's all factored into the TV. That's where they make all their money. You can sell the advertising. That's actually not bad. Australian basketball has kind of gone away from that and shortened the game to 40 minutes and then less time at half time and these kind of things so it fits in a two hour window. Yeah. They've bumped it up for the kids. And basketball has grown alongside it.

Yes absolutely. It's grown a lot in Australia in five years. I think it's going to keep going up too. But big consumers of it. Yeah. Women's football is probably the best spectacle I would have thought. Haven't seen a lot. But I hear you. Well it's going to start somewhere. It does. It's going to improve and improve and improve. It's probably one of the highest growing sports in Australia if you look at population ones. Yeah. The thing with women's football, they expected a major increase in skill level across the board from the first AFL season to the second.

But the players became better athletes from the first season to the second and were able to apply more pressure on the ball carrier. So almost the opposite. They play on the same size ground with less people and they're less skilled at what they do essentially so they make it very difficult to transfer the ball down the ground. Well they're better athletes and they're finding better athletes. They've picked a lot of people that haven't been playing football for a long period of time. You ask or you get to a poll of all the men's AFL players at the moment and they've probably all been playing since they were six or seven.

Couple of them may have started mid-teens but you look at a lot of the girls and a lot of them would have started three or four years ago when this. But you're going to see the benefits in ten years time where the girls have been playing at a junior level since under 12, under 10. It's going to come. It's going to come. I read an article the other day that was like a crisis in boys football because girls football had 200% more girls being introduced to the game than guys over the last two years. Junior football's done.

It's pretty crazy to think that I look back at when I played juniors. We had like three teams at Seaford and there was like three teams at Mallarosa and two teams at Langley. Just go look at the under 18s numbers for a lot of the MP and FL clubs. It's probably five or six clubs that don't have under 19s. Why is that happening? What do you reckon? I don't think there's enough other sports out there now. Footy's not the be all and end all for probably teenage boys. Paul Roos on the Sunday Rub was talking

about the lack of skill in junior football in the TAC Cup and in the players that are coming through and he thinks that it's with video games and a range of other things. Esports is massive. When we were kids we were outside kicking the footy. Every Sunday. You kick your footy for hours and hours. We used to do it in our court every night. Street lights would come on and we'd go inside and have dinner. Be home before the street lights come on. Yeah that was it. We do that with cricket, with footy, with basketball. There's more options now.

Kids want to do other things and it's watch Netflix or play Fortnite and that's all the kids seem to really talk about. What is this Fortnite thing? What is it? A game? It drives me nuts because the kids at school are so tired and play Fortnite until 2am. It's just a game. It's just a game that you enter. I don't actually know because I refuse to try it. I don't want to try it. I think I've got a little bit of it. It's one ball in and the last left standing wins. The map's ever shrinking. So it forces you to...

So I think a new round starts at 9pm and if you're in the arena then you're in. Or something like that. Yeah but people watch the gaming side of things. People post their live gaming onto YouTube. And people watch it. Listen to the commentary. Yeah. It's just them just playing the game. There's 2018 in a nutshell. People watching other people playing video games. Yeah. They don't even participate in it. Yeah they enjoy that on YouTube. Watching gamers game. Bring back Super Mario Brothers 3. That was the greatest game of all time. I made the 10-0-6-4 done.

Yeah. Super Mario World. Back on the Australian sports stuff. Saw my accountant last night who was a lifelong friend and he's been a really good cricketer. And we were talking about cricket and he's part of a highly successful club out in the country that is always winning flags and stuff but at junior level they're really struggling and he said everyone around the club's a fair bit older now. People aren't playing cricket. Yeah. I asked why and he said it's just not sexy. Yeah. He said it's that simple. He said we went early with T20, probably the first sport to bring it down.

Yeah. And that sort of settled and now people are saying well how can that be more appealing to people and getting kids to play so. I think they're trying to change the rules of junior cricket to allow more of skill development rather than traditional methods where you're out, you're out. So I think a lot of cricket, it's a hard game to really build skills in if you're not actually skillful so I think they're trying to change the development of the skills within the game and giving more flexibility to then the traditional rules. There was a big thing about it last summer so they're starting to try and bless people too and smaller grounds.

Superites. Yeah. I don't know what it is but just having more of a pathway where it's more enjoyable rather than standing out there because I used to play cricket as a kid. Cricket was my thing and then I remember days where you'd field for 45 overs in juniors and then if you got asked to play seniors which was a regular occurrence you'd be out in the field for 80 overs so you'd spend 125 overs in the field in the summer. There's better things to be doing on your day. I did the same. I was a cricket nut in my teen years.

That's what you did and that's what was expected of you. If you weren't a bowler you might not get a bowler. You spent time chasing this red piece of leather around on a hot day. I quickly burned you out. I was very fortunate that I got into athletics early on because over summer my friends played cricket or they did athletics. To go back to your earlier question, if handball or probably athletics because you got a lot more variety, I could definitely just be involved in athletics for the one sport if I had to choose. I

mean every year like the new season comes around and I see some of our junior athletes that are running I'm like fuck I want to get back into it. I want to be that old guy running around the track with bare feet and long hair. See that guy at Boston? The caveman. Yes. That was fantastic. Immaculate. Well so back on the, so because we haven't properly introduced the great man over here. Pulsi, everyone knows who you are. Jack Puls. Yeah I hope so. I've been on it a few times. What do you do? What do I do?

Yeah. Do many things. Primary role is a educator. Yeah. TK, Tommy, welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm the same as Puls, I'm a teacher. There's a few strings to that bow, same with Puls. Different things that we do at work. Yeah. Whether it's leadership or in our own classrooms. Yeah. But I'm a passionate outdoorsman and that's part of why I teach outdoor ed. Nice. And then yeah a bit contradictory. So you've got the IT, the IT, outdoor ed mix. Yeah it's kind of hard because yeah I'm our person at school in charge of IT

and e-learning and improving that practice throughout the school and whilst I'm about focusing on using technology to leverage teaching and learning, in my own classroom it's how can we move away from that and learn in the outdoors. How does that balance work? Like how do you go with that balance? Or trying to find that balance, find the balance? You've got to work hard. Yeah. For one. Do you feel like you're contradicting yourself with the kids sometimes? Oh not really because you know we look at ways technology can leverage our outdoor experience as well. Yeah. And the role that that plays in our performance, in our comfort.

But does that take away from the experience? Yes at times it does which is why running low-tech trips is always beneficial as well. Kids go scat but you take their phones off them for four days and it's like their world's ended. Really interesting on that though when smartphones became sort of a thing where all students had a smartphone at first you know it was like you were taking the oxygen out of their body on a camp when you took their phone at the start. Yeah. To now it's they can't wait to hand the phone in. Yeah.

And not have it for days. Those yeah. They cannot wait for it. You train them up to be accepting of that for sure. Yeah. Do you think that's like and that that'd be a natural thing with a lot of guys that age now or do you think that's because they've been under your expert tutelage for a period of time? Could be that I think once they've had an experience away from it they see the value in it. They realize the sky's not going to fall in. Yeah. I think Tommy does a fantastic job with those

guys and they respect that but if it was anyone else out of our the group of students that we teach I think a lot of them would struggle. Yeah. How can we become less reliant on things like the phones like as a wider society like not just in an education sense? It's a real tricky one because obviously as Tommy said they can leverage your experience in what we do and to an extent they can make our lives easier but it's that tipping point is when it becomes detrimental to our life as well. So it's really

hard to balance and it was on Insight on SBS a couple of weeks ago about technology in schools and some schools are going away and banning like phones and stuff from the schools just to have more social interaction and these kind of things which has a lot of merit I feel like I think a lot of the problems that we face would be fixed with banning some of the technology. It will be. But obviously that's going to hamstrung what you can do and what you can expect to do in the classroom as well. Yeah it's

about tooling the kids with you know the understanding of when and how to use technology but as you know at that age from 12 to 18 you're not going to be so accepting or just not aware of the impact it's having on your life. Yeah even as a 30 year old like I have trouble if my phone's nearby I'm going to check it. I've found myself I'm so much worse like going away I got to disconnect from my phone and like I was really happy with and I really enjoyed it right like the kids love

the experience of not feeling the need to grab my phone every second and over the last like month I've just found myself going back to my phone it's like and having to check myself and be aware of it but like I'm like in the in the crux of a like genuine addiction at the moment and it's like messing with my head. How do I fix it? Is it an addiction though or is it something because you would do a lot of your work stuff on your phone? Yeah I don't know I've fought with that because

I think it's kind of a cop-out because like I will go on to do a work thing whether it be like post on social media or we'll send an email or you know reply to some client messages or whatever and like every time I'll go do the do like the loop I'll go Facebook Instagram emails messages yeah Facebook Instagram email messages and I'll do it like three or four times once you get it yeah you get through to the last one yeah then again time check the first one again because a while ago I took

all notifications off my phone so like I have to go into the app to see it to find it and that works really well for a period of time but now I've it's like I've almost like taught myself to I have to go into the app to check if it's there rather than you live in an industry where that's pretty important though too like you could get a lead or someone asking you a question that's directly related to your business and that yeah that response could be the uh the the difference between you getting a

new client or losing one as well so you've got to be aware of it yeah I guess for us I leave my phone in the drawer at work and yeah access it yeah when I when I care to have their phones on them they are yeah and if I were to apply the rules that the college has I would be sending probably four fifths of my class out on a regular basis to give their phone to the office so I kind of give them a warning kind of thing and if they continually do it then

I probably send them out yeah but if you lay your ground rules down and the kids know what to expect then yeah it's pretty good I'm pretty lucky I only teach senior guys so I don't get to really see it from the the bottom man yeah uh your rates are pretty bad they're worse than my seniors yeah when it comes to you see are they getting worse like are these sevens eight nines getting worse yeah I think so yeah yeah is that just because that's all they know yeah it is but by even I'd say

even by year 10 now the maturity's there that you know my phone distracts me I'm gonna keep it away for majority students probably 80 percent yeah and a lot of the year 12 guys makes conscious decisions and don't have a messenger and will leave their phones in their lockers and stuff like that or the the academic ones that know the importance of it yeah will do it it's just so hard with having phones versus not because they're so good yeah you can send kids off and they live stream something back to the classroom or they

will film something that's uploaded in real time yeah bang and because they are full-blown capabilities of them too they some of them rely on it as a as a personal computer yeah and they have the capabilities to do that yeah they'll search google on their phone they'll access our platform compass at work to download a file or stuff like that I've got facebook groups with my kids that find yeah and constantly give messages on or drop documents or links to go and look at I don't know if they're reading it but it's there and they're

going to see it because they're always on it you've got to take advantage of it from time to time as well yeah no that's right and with I think phones are the biggest talking point in all because they have replaced a lot of other technology yeah so suddenly I battled with term one this year there was a change in the VCE study design yeah outdoor and environmental studies and we're down to the prom and they had to collect data for their first sack and they had to take pictures of you know high levels of biodiversity

native species a whole range of you know management practices whole heap of different things like they have to do that yeah and I asked the class I said do you all have cameras does anyone have a camera and I looked around the school do we have cameras we have like good ones for the photography class we're not going to take those on an outdoor in camp because I wanted them to collect data but not have the notifications in their pocket and not have all that stuff yeah and you know I'm looking over some shoulders kids

were checking snapchat and you know it was raining one day and someone was fml get me out of here it's like cold you know rather than actually raising it yeah and then I thought maybe we can just say you've got our staff member with you and point out what they need to take the photo of but then you go back to the sac specifics it's got to be authentic individual students must take photos and yeah so there's a whole thing to wrestle with where sometimes we couldn't get away from it yeah so on that particular

camp it was I gave phones out for data collection yep but as soon as someone got it back it was check everything yeah then we'll go collect data yeah by then the brains just elsewhere okay the snapchat streaks a lot yeah that's all they talk about yep had a year 10 uh girl in hysterics on a camp because a 300 and something day streak was about to be lost can I please call my sister and give her my login so she can keep my streaks active and it happened and it happened oh yeah because that's

you know I asked what do you get from that yeah oh you gotta have it you gotta have it you just do well some of them can't explain it but I just do use them for good what was uh the last camp we're on reese goes oh he gets on has a look at his phone and he finds out that um who died and made an announcement to the group um who was that yes someone famous yeah someone yeah I was thinking yeah yeah then he goes on which then became a round the fire talking

point that evening but yeah yeah but that's the thing as well you're best not to know sometimes you could be three days into a 10-day trip yeah personally yeah and you find some bad news yeah where trips go on yeah that sort of thing so they only got those phones for the last probably last day the last six hours really yeah so yeah it's something we wrestle with but then as I say that's one side of my job and the other side is to leverage that technology yeah in the classroom sense but so like do

you guys do much like paper stuff for the kids now like is it well vce yeah which isn't you have to like you're gonna have to physically have to write your answers on a piece of paper and a lot of the assessment that tommy does at unit three four and i do it in for out the red and sport and rec and teaching year 11 maths as well it's all on paper so that's a skill that these kids kind of still need to have and until the vca goes away where it's all done on the

computer which i don't see happening in the currency happening soon yeah then the skills of writing on paper are still ultra important particularly for those vcs kids as well major flaw with vce is that it's a written test because of course there are multiple ways to assess learning and understanding and something i'm i've been working with um like our integration stuff at school is using microsoft learning tools and so for students that struggle to read and write you know using dictation in one note where they're explaining something and it automatically is just coming up in

their responses or something's being read to them if they learn that way and it really helps them learn through years seven to ten yeah and then they hit hit those exams it's not an option yeah so it kind of caught between a rock and a hard play but that i mean that's only gearing them for vcu success anyway which is only one part of it yeah that was one of the next question like how how are you guys changing the way you educate to educate for life rather than educating for to pass the tests there's

still a lot of flaws in what we've just said and we've it's come up for discussion a lot when i've been here in the podcast and we've talked about uh the model which we should adapt or there's things that we should be teaching rather than what we are yeah um it's it's an ongoing thing and if you spend too much time and energy getting upset about the things we're not actually teaching from our level it's really really hard to change yeah and that the curriculum and what you say just this week the i think termble

was trying to secretly rewrite the curriculum without any input from teachers and stuff like this and they want to make sure that there is a science or math degree person in the school now to increase the level of awareness of science and engineering and maths kind of thing so there's heaps of there's heaps of components to that question that it's that sounds a little bit pessimistic to think that um well we're mandated by what we have to teach yeah from the government and that's you know it's sort of uh ministry of magic you know and

the influence they had at Hogwarts it's exactly that so you've you know we have to teach and get through what great where it's over after making it relevant which is something that you need to do of course yeah educating for life but i think like a lot of the learning isn't related to the content yeah if you can do it the most yeah you can do that within a conversation you might have with the kid in the yard or that's what i try and get that kind of development from my students is that it doesn't

have to be explicitly taught in the classroom as a teacher you're you're aware of many hats yeah as well and if you try and give life advice or teach students things not related to the curriculum that's a bonus and you can see a lot of personal growth through your students that way as well yeah and i think you you've just got to go outside in what you value so with with every out the red can we do yeah i basically teach kids how they could plan and run their own experience that way that's cool so

if they were to hike what are all the things you need to consider and book and do um when we go to Mount Bull next term they need to go and talk to local business owners about what times of the year are most important to them and for what reason um and then they've got a planning document they've got a price everything yeah um you know distance and time traveling from Melbourne a whole range of things they need to consider so they could do it themselves when they leave and even just having the courage to

go and talk to a store owner because they think oh they won't want to answer that question of course they will of course they will yeah and that sort of thing and but i definitely do think there is scope within the curriculum to teach these life skills and it's important i think they're really really important yeah because we have the same old the same old kind of things that we say and that like oh how come i never got taught how to do my taxes how come i never got taught to change my tire how

come i'm oh they teach us Pythagoras but whenever i'm ever going to use that again like as a maths teacher that's really that's what you get all the time that's what i'm ever going to use this again i still haven't used it yeah yeah well you'd be surprised um i've got this triangle at home right yeah i was drawing this triangle the other day and i really needed to know the day the high five news of it i have a really good get out for that because kids will come in for maths or something oh

we had to learn about this and i don't get it and like why do i have to learn about this you know to say i'm not maths so i don't know keep going find a math teacher no thanks to me that's just you handballing off i got first time in my teaching experience said you're really like a dad you like maths i said i'm 30 what are you trying to say i'm old now come on washed up yeah that's it i said i'll just hand in my whistle and text us now and move on if

that's the case and look there's it's education in society's transformed we could do a unit on tax or there could be someone on youtube and his gun and we'll explain everything you need to know in five minutes but then why don't we implement youtube videos like more often to like as a part of the curriculum of course yeah absolutely and they're and the way that they're presented to students on different platforms yeah well you said whatever it may be is easy to do you say it first hand you've come in a couple of times yeah

the kids eat everything out of your hand but if i said exactly the same thing you're not going to listen to me because they hear my voice every day yeah well it's like it's like if i tell kp to do something and someone else tells kp to do something and she's going to have two completely different responses what is the part of the the unit four course in out to read is looking at the climate change debate yeah and analyzing each side of it and we used to what you say bc program can i change

your mind about climate yeah we're a skeptic um a scientist travel the world and show each other different pieces of evidence or talk to other experts in the field everyone watch that to try and change each other's mind about it yeah and you know that would last a period and then we look at some other stuff and we do a heap of things probably last probably four periods worth of work until i found this youtube clip titled guy with whiteboard and marker destroys climate change debate and it goes throughout four minutes and bang yeah everything

you need to know in four minutes and so that's that's a homework task yeah and the rest of the time talk about it yeah and discuss it yeah as a group and then you apply it to the you know second exam style yeah situations done in a in a short amount of time doing to enough teachers do that like do they do their own yeah i think research to find that stuff and find ways to leverage what they're teaching i think yeah i hope so yeah because otherwise you're doing a lot of the work you

said well not that you couldn't do the work yourself like sometimes it is good to just to have that break and have another voice in the room or yeah just to get someone else in to give their perspective or something like even if it's another teacher to come in and give their experience on wheel in the uh 90 90 8 tv and the vcr yeah the vcr and chuck on around the twist instead i think it's it's individual though yeah you know some people will be a more confident some people will be of the the

point of view that no one can teach you this better than i can yeah and can you swallow your pride and say i'm gonna teach you this but this clip will be better than i can of course i was trying to explain i did a couple of days of chism maybe a month ago and i was trying to explain a point around um around how like basic economics works and like i'm the last person should be teaching that and i just went oh i'll just use the clip that i use it's ray d'alio talking about

how the economic machine works the whole thing and i put that on for him and then we talked about it for 20 minutes afterwards why does that make sense now they're like yep yep yep yep yep sweet next next topic um and i think it's knowing as a teacher knowing what you're actually really good at teaching like your plenty of strengths yeah if you're good at something yeah but if you're not good at something then you've got to check your ego and say hey i'm not as comfortable as i'm talking about this stuff i'm gonna

get someone in this bit yeah rule five you go on the hook i'm pretty lucky though with uh vico you've got a bit more flexibility in terms of what you can really teach and really what you can really drive so um the curriculum is a lot more open to interpretation there's some set learning outcomes and goals but how you facilitate them to your students is a lot more a lot more rapid so i'm in a good position where i take full advantage of sbs and abc and we drive a lot of the content that we

teach through uh episodes and shows such as um you can't ask that um filthy rich and homeless go back to where you came from and these kind of things so and being able to use them and teach things about homelessness um indigenous and aboriginal australians yeah and uh people living with disabilities and these kind of things and using that as a platform my fans worked really really well it's almost a case study so you're related around yeah something central but rather than being a paragraph on a page yeah a real person and a real real

program to use one of the questions i've started i've asked occasionally at the end of the podcast is if you go back to school what are the two or three subjects you'd bring into it what do you two wish as teachers that you could it might be what you take out of the curriculum or what you put in like if you had if malcolm just goes tk pulse what do you want and you want to learn about yeah well what do you want to teach about um for your kids what do you what do you

want the uh you need something that's tangible and that's something that kids can grasp on yeah i think if you put something there that's too open to interpretation then we've had experiences at our school where we do these big broad projects but because it's not in that traditional setting the kids aren't used to it and kind of get lost it's only the kids that are really focused and want to do well take up that opportunity and i know that wheel could slowly turn in terms of what we wanted to do but for it to be

successful and meaningful i think it would have to still fit in like a traditional kind of model where it was learning and formulating the kids learning through it as well so it's a difficult question um i know what you're trying to say there in basic terms is learning how to learn yeah and that's you know there are programs at university the dots program at monash and whatnot that offer that teach you how to become a university student verse what are the research skills basic literacy skills well i thought that's like i look back at my

three years as an undergrad student the all the exociency stuff and the little bit of understanding around the basic terms stuff wasn't the most beneficial thing i got i got i figured out how to discern between correct information and bullshit more or less and you you learn how to actually think critically and determine what's true and what's not well is this a reputable source yeah yeah yeah how do we bring like i would love to have maybe i didn't wouldn't have had the cognitive ability to do that in year eight or year nine or year

ten but i would have loved to be able to start that process a little earlier yeah but i don't know if that's a maturity thing or whether it's a content thing i think being a critical thinker would be one thing that i would somehow like to instill yeah not just do things for the sake of doing them yeah um creativity is a big one because i say a lot of kids creativity gets sucked out of them yeah at school like you can't do what you want to do so if you can formulate that into a

sense where they do have some choice game they can play now that you've got to create stuff minecraft minecraft and minecraft education is massive yeah is it used is it utilized um it is in some senses um whether it can be um whether they need to recreate certain things a lot of people are still skeptical on it though they are but i i can see the benefit in it yeah but other teachers might not oh for sure if it's used properly but they're like minecraft education this is insane starts next turn for us really yeah

um so to teach students about illegal wildlife trade yeah they're going to log on yeah they're going to enter the lesson code and they have to walk around the docks and there's all these big ships shipping containers and stuff and they have to go up to different people on the docks and like you know press enter or whatever to get them to speak yeah and they'll tell them they'll give them clues about you know what's what's being illegally shipped where it's coming from what the implications are they'll have to talk to policemen that arrive um

to learn about you know what the sanctions are for illegal wildlife trade all sorts of different things they'll talk to people that are involved in importing and exporting the animals like full on so they've got to fill all this information out on this sheet yeah by going around and talking to all these people in this fake world that's pretty cool which is really cool yeah um because it's like simulating real world experience yeah they can do it from their device yeah from their device which we can get to the point in like 50 years we're

all just sitting on a couch that we're plugged into everything and it's just the light the world is lived through virtual reality a lot of primary school teachers gamification is becoming a massive kind of uh tool that primary school teachers use i guess in secondary school it's a bit harder because you've got a number of students coming in and out and it'd be hard to really structure that in a way that would probably be meaningful yeah so a lot of primary school teachers will run a game with within their classroom and that they students can

receive points and can level up and there's allies and one of my good friends is right into it and set up a number of classrooms and he has a different focus every term like this term you've just gone to and done like a marvel kind of thing and you could yeah it seemed really really interesting the kids were hooked on it so do you think education is heading in the right direction well it is but too slowly yeah however how receptive and adaptive we are to the changes can't keep up with that yeah like things

are just and that's where that's one of the hard things in my role yeah it's a slow burn change and we're at a stage at the moment where the system we've got internet generation students and we have some internet generation staff yeah many not that's not to say that's not necessarily a bad thing yeah but to understand that students live their life through this this vehicle and trying to slowly implement that change where technology isn't the be all and end all but it's used you know can be relied upon it's used frequently to leverage teaching

and learning but by the time you finally get up to a certain level it's the wheels just going again yeah the system's reactive rather than being proactive it's not ahead of the curve it's always going to be behind it it's always going to be that's the nature of technology how it's developed but yeah for something to filter down like i've explained before it could take a year and as tommy just said that year the wheels turn to the next cog and it's done again and it's you know i had the question teaching staff never had

to use one note and what they can do with it yeah i said geez this one note thing's good when to come out i said it came out first edition was 2006 and they just looked at me puzzled you know and it's through no fault of their own but yeah you know microsoft has made a huge push for education yeah and they've pushed all this amazing stuff for free to schools now i mean it it's somewhat marketing absolutely it's like hey love the microsoft ecosystem over at school and then when you leave you want to

go by mackel you know so um but it is fantastic but you know it's access to these resources and it takes within our within any school it takes to a point where something needs to reach critical mass and that's students teachers everyone use it yeah using it before it become an effective tool yeah which is hot using it and testing it and yeah like it's going to reach that critical mass where it's seen as the norm and as teachers as stupid as you say we get initiative fatigue because there's a new thing coming out every

three months that that wants from the top down that needs to be pushed and then teachers just know the system now they'll just sit on their hands for three months and then the next thing will come along and everything's changed again yeah i always feel the same like from a business point of view like there's so many apps and programs that should help me with what i do but i almost feel like sometimes it's like well fuck i've got four apps doing yeah what these four apps do and then i'm like okay i've got too

many and then you've got your one note and your google docs and your 18 other ones that are kind of similar but they all have like slight variations it's like which one do i pick yeah and that's that's almost the hardest thing because then you know in a month there'll be another one and they'll out develop each other and that's how it works yeah um personally microsoft is ahead yeah they've got the money they've got the right people um they're all over twitter just moved all my stuff onto google drive mate don't tell me that

that's a good backup yeah it's a great backup i guess i don't want to go back to microsoft you'd have to pay for microsoft yeah um whereas education it's a terabyte one drive storage downloading whatever you need it's good marketing yeah that's very much no it is good marketing but yeah there's outlasting technologies it's a tough one yeah because the wheels are gonna keep turning no matter what yeah look its role is to make things easier and someone out more efficient and yeah for plenty of people it's well i have to learn this thing and

it's tricky and it's different to what i know so it doesn't make things easier yeah so yeah a bit like there's there's enough of a case for just good authentic teaching yeah you know what does that look like what is like good authentic teaching was like there's too many there's too many variants on that i guess yeah you know i one of my mentors who's she's about to turn 60 at school she's got the motherly touch in the classroom and that's all it takes that's all it takes you know technology doesn't say she's plays the

mother over with us as well it's she's amazing technology isn't the be-off shout out to jill shout out to mrs lankton um just brilliant and she taught me so many things that you know if i'm all guns blazing about technology that i may have overlooked or i've just noticed this kid doesn't ride on even lines yeah like has a different space between each lines or can't can't do this or they appear to be having trouble reading or it just could be these little things that yeah that you really pick up on or just these little

strategies and games and activities to fill time or whatever yeah but they're just gold i think the hard thing with teaching is that everyone's gone through the process of school yeah and everyone has a and an opinion from the outside looking in yeah so 90 let's say 95 99 percent of people have gone through their education prep to 12 yeah right so they know what a teacher does know what a teacher is so they're there therefore have an opinion of what it should look like yeah which makes it difficult and i think one of our

good friends walk uses this analogy too that he says that like settle down mate sorry man shout out to walk hopefully he's listening is that it's not like as a as a doctor on because i've seen this happen on a tv show i can come in and make a comment about what you should be doing and what's right and what's wrong yeah which makes it very difficult from an outsider looking in as well but authentic teaching can be a number of things as as tommy said it's it's the way you want to set up your

classroom and how you relate to your students and i think yeah that's a big thing for me if you can build that rapport that's going to repay you back tenfold later on that's the biggest thing yeah and look the outside of the secondary sense it's you know it's a bit of a a bit contradictory at uni that we learned that chalk and talk is not the way and you've got to be innovative and do all this yeah but they teach you through that exact method you know what i mean yeah that's the only way we

can get through everything time and so yeah it's is it yeah that needs to transform but at the same time university teachers they don't have a time to build rapport with students they don't know them too many too many yeah so that whole system so is a big part of your job just connecting with students and just getting to know them at least on some sort of personal level absolutely first lesson with new classes um with juniors i know them by the time they're seniors usually um is yeah just getting to know each other and

what their strengths are and just through a range of can be games different activities can be yeah you know a simple activity where they've got to set things out all that lovely one where you give them instructions on how to fold paper those weeks um it's a good moment you can find it online everyone gets a piece of paper and they can't see anyone else in the room and they've just got to follow instructions on how to fold it a certain way and then when they all come back at the at the end there's like

15 instructions yeah though they often have something different really that's yeah just based on their views and some of them which are just completely out of whack categorize students that way yeah i like the other one where there's a big list of instructions and the kid reads through them he set them up and the last one said don't do anything but they've done all this stuff leading into that's always a good one and get them started as well that's always good in in ads already when they start at year 10th you know they'll students will

come into the room and they've they might have clicks and little groups that they're a part of and then we have our four-day hike at wilson's prom and surfing and that and they've all been in different groups and then like the buzz in the classroom the next time they're back they all work together and yeah you know it's not just teacher student student student more than anything yeah if we want them to collaborate and learn off each other and and even have the confidence to speak out in class absolutely they have to be on that

level and you know can be hard when they come out of grade six and there's a whole heap of new faces in the year seven classroom and everyone's a bit shy and you know some people can even just be a bit pigeon-holed from there i guess yeah so do you find Agilead's an amazing tool for them to be able to kind of all get on the same level yeah absolutely yeah it is um it's just through the timing activities um it's at a real strength but finding time to do that stuff it's a team yeah

they go to a struggle yeah you see the benefit of what Tommy does in outdoor ed like he's got some fantastic results from a vcu level but you can see the friendships that these guys bond through outdoor ed probably other things involved too like a lot of them come from a year nine program that they're all together get a lot coming up which is based on an outdoor ed experience a lot of it is they get a taster of what that is yeah but yeah those kids are some of the better kids not better kids

in the school but they just seem to have their heads switched on yeah and i think that does help on the results side of thing with you know if i lay down an expectation that this work's done by this day yeah they'll do it yeah like don't let me down and kids that have let me down and felt bad you know yeah yeah we're sort of putting a hard bone on camps now if you're not if you're not pulling your weight and things like that then you may not be going on the snow camp yeah

eligible yeah you know it's a privilege just because you're in the subject doesn't mean you're doing it yeah it's cool you know so it's just a standard thing yeah and it's the same with pulsing in sport and rec as well yeah why should you get to do all the fun things if you're not pulling your weight and that's but that's that is in itself is a life lesson yeah yeah don't go through life being a fuckwit and expecting everyone to bend over backwards for you yeah and help you um i'm expecting others to do two

things for you yeah which this you know these kids are coming down to the start and they they're in their pairs or they're freezing they've got to cook and they all look at each other like oh we have to cook for me who's gonna get the water for the transient and who's gonna like wait what do we do yeah who's carrying this who's carrying that and probably mum's the kid that's got my mom didn't pack this or mum put this in the wrong spot or whatever flames everyone else yeah so when i was at uni

and something like um with the great bow miles on a sea kiking expedition shout out to bowie podcast number 20 something maybe i'm pretty sure pretty sure it was both down at niramanga yeah he said no matter what it was for whether it was one day or the whole trip you can't talk about someone who's not here oh at all that's a good one so and it doesn't mean you're talking about someone in a bad way yeah you know you know my brother and i did this can't talk about it yeah you can only talk

about yourself and that you know the people you're talking to and that was interesting yeah you know i guess any bitching or negativity or things like that just cut out just gone you can't do it and i've tried that with the students and they've struggled a lot but it's an interesting exercise you can't talk about someone that's not here who told you that that was bow oh mate you've already you've already failed oh it was someone i know yeah so yeah it is really hard can't talk about someone who's not here because we don't we

betray a lot of the stuff based on past experience that would be really hard particularly if you're in a group of new people that's a really easy way to shift the black like the blame or like the reasons why things didn't work or worked or whatever it's really easy to just handle it off to someone that's not there even if it's not like you said it's not negative you're still yeah that's really interesting i might implement something like that like a like a staff meeting or something like that would be really interesting and it's an

interesting way for in the outdoors for kids to look around yeah and have authentic conversations with the people around you rather than relying on past experience yeah that whole sort of thing so yeah i learned a lot of what's shaped my practice from my teachers at uni in bow and in particular a man named al al threlfall he was the tech officer around the shed and equipment and stuff and he was my leader on some camps and just the things i learned about group management and our world as a place was just incredible how much

of your teaching persona and philosophies are from the people you've looked up to and how much of it is from your experiences um well that goes back to when i started university yeah and in year 12 um our after ed teacher we called him skip chris beard was his name but all the boys loved him you know he was the captain of the local football team he was our teacher he was a cool cool young dude he was a mountain biking and skiing gun and just did all this cool stuff and like man we want

to be like skip like he's just so awesome yeah and um and he talked to each of us individually on camps where do you think you're going in the future and what do you want to do and stuff and i said i just love it i love all this and he said you know you'd make a really good teacher i think and i think you should go and do the course i did at monash and that's what i did so that's why you became a teacher like that one of those conversations yeah i was already

sort of heading that way but that was the real oh yeah i want to do this now and that's the course to go do yeah um and i some of my students are now doing that same course good feeling like yeah do what you do because of more yes basically yeah and that you know the wheel goes around and that was the reason he got into teaching originally yeah so a lot from him a lot from people at university of course well and even other teachers in school you know um walk has taught me about

discipline you gotta give a little red to the kids i was probably a bit soft to be honest when i started yeah um but that develops i mean it does develop it does develop yeah when it yeah it's a weird job because you essentially get given the keys to this new shiny new car on your first day and there's like no i'm watching you if you're fucking up yeah it's really you get no feedback on what you're actually doing and you really struggle for that as because any any other job you'll get some feedback saying

oh that's a good job but essentially you're given the keys to this car and whatever you do to it it's a pile of kids don't fuck them up yeah pretty much have you ever filmed yourself coaching no i want you to try it because i've yeah i reckon it's probably the second or third year um when i got an ipad um i would just i'd film myself teaching and there's a few times i went geez that's you know i would have gone about that differently i talked too long or could have been the way i

spoke it could be a number of different things that i thought that's not quite what i want to be doing yeah but you don't realize and we we did a thing and can probably start again in the future at school called triads where you're in a group of three and it was just objective feedback feedback in classrooms so not on whether you think this was a good quality lesson this is what you did but this is what this is just what you saw yeah and we'd ask for students to observe so it could be whether

you seem to speak to the left side of the room or to the right did you get to all the students what were students doing while you were talking or why they were meant to be doing a certain thing and the other the other person's role was just to write these things down write their observations down and then you'd have a meeting afterwards and talk about what was there and what could change and you know that sort of stuff i think it's confronting for people but yeah but it's just like it needs to be radical

transparency right like it's just going and it's being completely truthful about what's actually happened like there's no blowing smoke or or bullshitting about how well someone's done because it's just like here's what you did it's not about don't hurt feelings or anything because for the teachers that want to actually improve and get better than it's like thank you for doing this it's not a i feel shitty because you just told me that i that's right stared at one kid for majority of the class like okay i'll look at one kid from majority class if i

want to be a better teacher i need to spread my gaze out like little things like that well i guess what and you're probably in a similar industry with coaching yeah as well as what what makes you a successful teacher yeah what what what's the drive what's the if you're giving a tick at the end of the name saying they're doing a good job what is that but i can't answer that myself that's a hard one really to puncture down because there's so many different skills involved like i think i know i think i know

what it is but that's only in my opinion like if tommy come and witness what i was doing he would pick up things that i need to work on as well yeah well this is this is a greg day quote yeah or a quote or like a prod just like what's the definition of educating comes from the word of juice which is to bring out or to develop so what makes a good teacher is i guess some or a good coach or a good any educator in any way someone that can bring out a result

or to develop autonomy in certain things yeah but then it's a really hard thing to measure for your x-men kids in in a certain class or from year 7 to year 12 when they get through so did i do good yeah i think so i think they're going to be semi-functioning humans or a set of us yeah but how well do we know them you know we're it's students um that are funded and whatnot will have an individual learning plan where it could be something really basic for them where they need to complete three out

of ten learning tasks for the semester or they need to rule their book up you know or access their resources each lesson online it can be you know simple things whereas everyone else is just measured on the same performer and first you've got to know the kids and where they're at yeah that's a bit and then you've got to you know then they're they assist you know on this uniform sort of performer really and yeah i think we're caught in a bit of a cycle at the moment where we celebrate growth but even if that

grows not to standard okay so a lot of the system's gone so seven or seven or ten prep to ten the standards where we think you need to be out yeah all right and we're celebrating the fact that a kid might be two years behind but they've grown six months that we celebrate that more much the fact than we're actually celebrating getting kids at standard yeah i think it's a bit of an issue do you guys like stay in contact with many of your students when they finish i've got a few that i talk to

um they only some sometimes get a facebook message here and there just see how we're going sometimes you see them at school events they'll pop in and say good day and stuff like that there's a couple of students that ask me some questions from time to time about their future and what they think and which is cool i don't mind that yeah at all um you've told them once you kind of take them take them you want to take them under your wing and those kind of things to make sure that they're successful throughout their

whole life i think that's how i mark my teaching if i can change one kid's life i'll give them one good piece of advice that goes goes on to make them a better person then i think i'm doing my job right yeah if it's only one it's one but if it's hopefully more it's more yeah i've had the odd occasion just other more more so as people asking for resources like i'm doing this at uni have you got any sort of resources i can use or you know i'm meant to plan a unit have you

got some some advice or whatever it may be um yeah that's probably about it yeah yeah i guess my question came from i guess wanting to or seeing how well the majority of them would be going and whether it's like whether you can see the progress for the ones that you looked at when they were finishing your 11 year time and you're like this this these group of kids are going to do really well yeah not sure about these guys like would it tend to match up with what you would expect we get the data

that comes through at the end of the year 12 about halfway through the next year about what the percentage of kids of what they're doing yeah and like what they've gone on to yeah um you don't really get to see names with that yeah um but you do get an idea of who what who's doing what and where at the end of that year year 12 kind of cycle but outside of that it's a bit hard sometimes we get ex-students back to talk which is a good experience like they particularly to the year 12s and

the older guys we get them to come back and talk about their experiences and what what made them the person and what tips they have that would be incredibly valuable right oh absolutely um yeah meaningful conversation it gets back to the point where he said it's not covered for your mouth so they're eating from their hands what do you find like some of the main i guess points of advice are from kids that finish up and then come back and and talk to the kids um i just try the major message they just give everything

a go that you can cliche but it's yeah make the most make the most of your opportunities because they say once you leave school and a lot of the a lot of the thing is for kids at school is that oh i hate school we don't want to be here kind of thing but i try and tell the kids that it's actually not that bad you get to hang out with your mates for six hours a day um and once you finish like you don't get to do that anymore like that's that's growing up and

you get to realize that hey school wasn't actually that bad i wish i actually did a few more things right like it just takes that time cherish it stay as long as you can but it's a bit cliche but and they just say make sure you use all your available resources like if you want to stay back after school stay back after school with your teachers and these kind of things because a lot of kids don't take that opportunity up you would have more than anyone yeah stay back for help yeah i i really enjoy

that part of it because it it's essentially the the bare bones of what we do as teachers you can help that kid individually one-on-one struggling with something or a concept and you can clear that up for them that's a massive vindication for me and it makes them feel good makes me feel good i said oh i'll do that all the time but the kids don't want to take up that opportunity because they're probably back when i go play fortnite or something or watch netflix but yeah that's i get the biggest buzz out of that within

the classroom teaching students knew something and when you see that light bulb moment go off that's that's the best part of teaching i think i love those like a coach people feel they can't ask questions i feel they can't like grab me and sit down and talk about a concept or talk about their training or talk about their goals or whatever and it's like that's probably one of the things like you give me the biggest buzz it's like well if i can help you move from like thought process a to thought process b in three

minutes where you could have been stewing out for a week like i think i just come to maturity and being comfortable with that level of authority that you're in i guess that education system set up where it's always that authority figure at the front and it's seen as someone that you probably don't want to talk to about certain things too but as kids get older you're not going to get all the kids come and ask you these kind of questions but the ones that do we're going to have those meaningful and conversations with you yeah

yeah you realize that the person at the front is just someone doing this like that's being in the same position you are absolutely leverage your life experience into your teaching you know i've tommy's done this before too he's using a heart rate data from exercise events yeah that would be shown in class and i've gone into speaking to the year 12 classes about nutrition for endurance events and these kind of things it's just things that you can bring into your teaching that make it interesting and make you seem like a human yeah more human you're

not just like this computer just sits there and lives at work and like we go out and have lights and stuff like that great segue you guys have just been on holidays you're about to finish up your holidays what's with the old teachers getting like being absolutely cactus by the end of the term being sick burnt out or oh it's it's more of a term two thing yeah um term two is 11 weeks it's always the longest it's been 12 13 in the past yeah just depends on how the year falls um winter the fact

is you daylight you get less daylight as the term goes it gets colder as the term goes so automatically you're down on vitamin d germs germs in the school that shit guys get around germs in the school are a premium yeah there's a lot of bodies coming through the doors yeah for me personally um being an out to read teacher terms always broken up by camps and i'm always building towards that next one and even though it's it's more tiring going on a camp the logistics and just running it and stuff yeah annoys me when

people say how was your your holiday because it's so far from that you know oh you're at mount puller you know you must have been having the best week ever but and that's not the case yeah you can have a bit of fun but you're looking after people yeah you're not you're not there carving the slopes for eight hours at all you know you're babysitting and it's frustrating at times too yeah it's like when you go to outdoor head camps with you people ask me you know is it i didn't lose anyone that was a

good step but you're always on bud like you're on edge 24 hours a day like it's really like oh crap is everyone in their tents is everyone eating right is everyone going to the toilet it's something that it's yeah it's a really strange kind of experience that to know that particularly on outdoor head camp that's exactly right pops it's and i was talking to billy about this set or not um just a bit of pillow talk she um she was just asking about that sort of stuff and and when it's on camps like what i

meant when i said that it's not you know a three-day hike at the prom it's not just a glorious hike yeah you know to the best beaches it's it's monitoring how much water students are drinking like actively watching them drink water yeah eat are they going to the toilet a whole number of things does this kid look overly fatigued are they a bit red in the face yeah looking at the group dynamics and yeah it's just so many different things you're constantly on the first aid decision making attention yeah like it's you're like it's huge

yeah should i go this way should i go that way how's the group traveling yeah and there's there's always so many concerns and um you know should something happen here yes we've got satellite phones and things but it's still a big deal and there's a lot riding on everything that you do and um really the only time that i ever get to marginally switch off is once they've all gone to bed yeah and then even then i'll sit there reading a book and just and do a few walking and just making sure that you know

sort of everything's under wraps and you're looking at the sky open they're not under any trees or anything like this stuff and yeah it's great to be in those places but it is dark and you can't really go and do anything yeah um but yeah it's just go take it take a slight but further each time sit on a rock and one of the kids did ask us out they said remember that time do you actually enjoy coming out to camp with all that i was like yeah it's really good because it would be better

if i got to do it with my own group when we went down that time last year yeah that's what i was saying to you guys this is just unreal yeah i'm actually here but relaxed yeah yeah i'm actually i've set up the tent and i'm just winding down yeah now i'm just doing it yeah you're like i'm looking around like me it's really good you're right mate yeah there was no looking at a watch or anything whereas it's i need to get these guys cooking i need to get all this happening and that's not

to say i don't love it i just really love doing it um and watching the kids grow but it is a really different thing and you know i've been running the same introduction hike for seven years yeah the same three-day loop at the prom well it was different and it's yeah it was a bit different for your for your group this year um and i look still breathtaking yeah problem we love it amazing but still um there's some times where you realize and for anyone wanting to hike from sealers code to little waterloo bay is

not 12 k's as the sign say it's 17 and a half it's massive and just knowing that we're so far away and the kids look at the signs oh there's four k's left this has got to be the last beach and you know this sort of stuff and thinking and you're just like we are still so are we there just up the hill man yeah the hardest thing i ever did was going up the telegraph track to the car park yeah with two packs on the front more on the back in about 35 degrees oh

and just double packed the 3k ascent yeah and yeah that's solid yeah that was solid but um good from you now we do love it and and that's you know a big part of it is just getting out to nature and nature therapy and troubled youth yeah um is a movement at the moment and there are more organizations that are sort of popping up here and there to make that happen for kids and not just kids um you know there's groups that go out from corrective facilities for adults yeah as well that's cool um and

things like that because it is proven that green spaces and time are important for our mental health yeah even obviously our physical health but our learning so i think going back to your question about sickness for me it's just a it's a cyclical thing like it happens to me every holidays i think your body just gets to a certain point and it knows it's almost at the end it just starts to relax and i i generally thought my body was shutting down is it a self-fulfilling prophecy now this happens so much i can't i i

would i hope i hope it doesn't happen but it happens more often than it does it happens more than it's true it's interesting at the minute um i've been i get up in quarter past six usually yeah um and billy gets up at 6 30 to head off to work and i've been getting up with her to cook her breakfast and get her stuff ready good from you but i've been so tired and she said oh you do it all the time you got to be used to it but i don't feel that i am

like because i don't have to be at work yeah and i finally have that time to just chill what do you guys spend your holidays doing like do you have like pulsy just kills up in a ball and lays down for a week but what do you what do you guys spend those two weeks doing and then the bigger i six weeks at the end of the year those two weeks ones are just investing in yourself i feel as i said before like i'm doing the recovering from sickness so i like to just just be

able to not have any anything in your diary and you're free to do what you want so if you want to sit at home and read a book all day you can do that if you want to go to the gym more often we've talked about using the the two weeks as a bit of a training base to really up your training and i was really uh a firm attributed to that when i was doing that on my iron man stuff i'd use those two weeks to really launch into some training you can set up

your term really well if you if you want to do a little bit of work you don't have to but if you want to you can really set yourself up for a smooth transition it's just yeah i just do whatever i feel like i want to do catching up with people that you don't normally get to catch up with you want to go see your parents these kind of things yeah you can just have just got more time to do the things that you really want to be done just fill your cup yeah that's it

fill in the cup yeah there's probably four things friends and family catching up particularly family like to go down to the country fitness just being able to go to the gym or go to runners with the great man do some like i've been doing i've been you know i've been getting on the bike on swift you know in the lounge room yeah you know and just that's enjoyable um a bit of the block so we're doing our place up at the minute sort of one step at the time but um just having time to whether

it's paint or do some work in the yard or you know that sort of stuff yeah um do a day or two of work i've done that in the past once i get the go-ahead from the interior designer bill yeah i make poor decisions on decor so everything has to be run past her she's got a great eye for it um which is fine she picks out what needs to be done and then i'll do it like the painting good unless because i'm the world's worst handyman so whether i get tom probably out there whether

i get tom over or something like that to help out yeah good um and then but i'm a bit i'm a workaholic and i've done so much work this week in particular and tomorrow there's about eight hours worth pending really yeah building up the pd program for stuff next term and having it fully resourced for staff meeting first day back so you know work next week yeah you can say you can set your term up or you can get if you can really knuckle down if you want to some people just need that time out

it just depends on how you're feeling as well if you're burnt out there's probably that's the last thing you want to do but one thing every teacher will tell you though is that at the end of the term they go yep i'm going to do all this stuff on the holidays and they've got a huge list of things to catch up on marking planning whatever it may be and they may do none they may do one part they might do all of it it just sort of depends people yeah you always work you're always doing

something i always think you should be doing something i think the three of us are the same in that mold have to be doing something yeah have to like there's gonna be a program you just cannot on the road yeah it'll be done something yeah whether you're making the house neither kp will be sitting there listening to that bit going oh yeah doesn't fucking done any of that holiday sweet yeah yeah yeah nice very nice all right finish off the podcast i want to do a quick little like favorites so a couple of topics i'm

going to throw i want you to tell me your favorite and tell me why like the all favorite best in the world best ever kind of thing favorite movie go batman dark knight why oh five girls one policy wants to give an arbitrary scoring system to everything yeah so five girls one all right five girls one oh i think just the way that's made and the actors score and just the brooding nature of that film it's um and not being the biggest batman fan before that like as a kid batman was kind of popular but

to see that just the way it was made it's just done so brilliantly um i really like inception too but i'm not a big movie guy but if i get asked that question my answer is always batman that trilogy there what do you got mine's actually the same so no it's true it's true but i'll choose another um i'm a bonnet bond tragic a bond tragic love james bond um and sky fall is my favorite of those you'd make a good james bond yeah maybe i'm too tall to be james bond i think um i

just enjoy that because there's a lot of twists and turns i think daniel craig's sensational but on a sort of movie critic level they strip james bond back in that film they take the gadgets out of it they dig into why he's he's not just this high flying you know this high role that solves the world's crime and gets the girl in every movie he's actually an alcoholic that's depressed and over the loss of his parents and it all goes back to you know their residence in skyfall the name of their property where they grew

up and this sort of stuff and it's yeah it's quite interesting it's very different to any of the other the bond films good i like that lost in translation it's my probably favorite movie of all time okay scalia hanson yeah obviously bill murray double obviously what a man but i think it's just a really cool like insight into the human experience and loneliness and being in a foreign place and how we deal with culture and deal with things that aren't normal and all aren't is in our own environment and how we deal with other people

how we do it ourselves when we're by when we're alone and then how we interact with people when we're in those situations and i just love love love the movie favorite book or favorite book of all time policy what do you got for me um favorite book of all time almost impactful read policy's just getting back into reading yeah i'll jump back on the horse that's always um i don't know i'll let you think pops you go i love autobiographies yeah good um and it's a toss-up between these two chris jones probably second but um

the great man our illustrious coach bucks i love his book because i love his book because it it just it paints a picture of who bucks really is yeah you know and the whole fig jam thing is something that he is not but the best the best thing i took from it was there's a line where he says when he was running extra 400s at training or that sort of stuff or he was chasing i think it was shane o'bri or one of the players who was more experienced than him yeah that he used to

chase his tail all the time he'd think to himself like if you're willing to compromise like just this one 400 effort while slacking off you know what else are you going to compromise and you can think about that in every sense whether you might say oh leave this for tomorrow yeah you can think that to yourself and think well then what tomorrow what am i going to compromise or how easy is it to just keep putting things on the back burner yeah and just because then eventually like you add you take five percent off everything

in your life quality quality of your life is going to be significantly detriment to compared to what you would be yeah so that's good what a man like that from buddy up for us uh mine's probably going to surprise you a little bit mine is the perks of being a wallflower oh great movie haven't read the book and book um uh and i saw it we saw weights we saw weights heater and he's just come here stung his finger up shout out to weight anyway shout out to weight um but we didn't actually stole it

we actually uh we actually took it because he had it left on all night so that's what you get oh that's not good not the first time either oh you know what's worse what's that mate smell of this room tk has been uh a couple of so oh it's very you smell like a bag of cheese corn chips you just had a bag of cheese corn chips no i didn't no i don't need cheese i'm not allowed if you said i wasn't back to posse posse sorry thanks wade um yeah perks of being a wallflower

i think i i really read that in an important part of my life and i probably should go back and actually reread it probably something i just probably um just thought of then it's that it just taught me to be proud of what of who you are that book and then like and i know it's a bit tragic in some parts too but just to be happy with the skin you're in i know it sounds pretty cliche and a bit fitspo and stuff like that but i think growing growing what i went through and then

reading that kind of um validated of what i was doing and how i was feeling so i took a lot out of it that way good i'm really struggling to answer this but because you've read 900 this year now we're up to like 44. i'm pretty happy i'm pretty happy with with the books that ticked over this year but i think there's the like the normal ones that i go for like principles and sapiens and stuff like that but i think one of the best books ever is the hungry caterpillar that's fantastic what's the rainbow

the rainbow of fish remember like yeah that one that was pretty good um is the alchemist by paulo colelo i can't even i don't know coelho i don't even know how to say his name but for me it's just it's just like like all the shitty stuff can happen like you can but if you maintain on the path and keep taking steps forward then you'll eventually get to where you want to get to like it's just that really simple story about not needing external validation not um not letting all the all those negative things get

to you um but just like if you're heading somewhere no matter what happens no matter what people say just keep taking steps forward never that climb a mountain outage comes with um no that's miley saras uh the climbing mountain thing how you climb a mountain one step at a time i think that might that might be a greg thing i think the dayism yeah dayism yeah yeah he's he needs to write a book it's also physiological that's the way to get up it's just that's actually that's actually okay yeah well that's actually how you do

it yeah um yeah good favorite podcast like can be for deep learning or just entertainment until a year ago i think i could answer the question for the both of us but it's there it ceased to exist it was the jock reynolds some fantasy some fantasy football podcast unfortunately the boys have we've gone away from that which me and tommy used to find ourselves in fits and laughter and talking to at work and no one would actually know what we're talking about good which was good um i really like uh philosophy with will anderson but

unfortunately he wasn't a bit of a role with his content that he was putting out but it's just something something's happened and he okay um you got it yeah and then it just happened recently and he i just he released one last week and he kind of explained that some of the stuff that was said in the podcast has been spun and turned against him or one of his guests too so he's really questioning if he's gonna continue with those conversations well if you're listening wilbur give us a call let us know why why are

you like yeah it was interesting to hear and i just think the conversations that he has with people and then some of the people you don't even know that they're quite meaningful they're authentic and i learn a lot from them because he get back on it talks about topics that policy is learning yeah that's what we want i've recommended a few tommy probably yeah and i'll listen to him good yeah uh for me i like mark howard's howie games yeah good i don't think anyone doesn't like those just um good insight into all the athletes

and people that that come in mick fanning was particularly superb made me cry made everyone cry that listen to it um he polarizes a few people who are howie a lot of my mates hate him so i'm really i said oh have you listened to his podcast and they go nah i said what go listen to a few of them before you make a judgment on him um yeah listen to the mick fanning if you can he just goes through the night he lost his brother which he'd never told anyone so yeah on the focus

that's that's pretty something he doesn't can't really talk about and it was pretty yeah pretty deep stuff but pretty inspiring and um and you just learn a lot about people just everyone that's on there yeah so that's cool mine's pretty obvious it's just joe rogan it's i think it's the ability to like he's like 1100 1150 1100. oh i don't you've you've given me a few and i just haven't really that's all right i had the time to suck you obviously i'm not you know giving you enough value now that i've moved or about to

move yeah 40 minutes a day to listen to some more content 11 43 is is up to and most of the podcasts are two to three hours and it's just that i don't know there's something about that long form communication where they just sit and talk if you're not time constrained you can just let things roll out organically it doesn't have to be yeah it's a really genuine conversation like there's no agenda it's just let's just have a conversation and talk and like like you were just saying about will aniston's podcast i don't actually know

what's happened or whatever but um or like your mates not liking howie day like they've never actually sat there and listened to him talk about what he believes in or they're going on what they say on the radio radio yeah you get a short little clip and yeah and and we all like we all do it we all like create a bias an idea about someone or something based on like a tiny little morsel of information right i really like how rogan's podcast you can just sit down and just listen to him talk listen to

him and whoever guess he's got on talk about what they believe in um and you can you realize that feel great i hate that guy well you might hate 20 of what he says but 80 of what he says you're like yeah i kind of agree with that and i find myself agreeing with rogan on certain things and just going no i disagree on other things but it allows me to kind of reaffirm what my beliefs are about life and stuff uh last one favorite joke what did the fish say when it ran through the

wall damn good that's my guy that's my guy that's your go-to everyone needs to go to joke if you're listening you need a go-to joke that's my go-to i wouldn't say i have a go-to joke um you're gonna google it now yeah but i'll just sort of make sure i tell it properly if you don't know it off my heart it's not your home all right i'm gonna have a crap day probably my i'll give you my favorite office line yeah because i love the office which one when us yeah when michael scott says and

i knew exactly what to do but in a much more real sense i had no idea what to do just i find him so funny good as a character all right i'm gonna butcher this you can edit it out no you've got a rule don't edit um all right so there's this highway patrolman sitting on a notorious stretch of road uh just this big long stretch where there's always people speeding in sitting there pulled a couple people over that day and there's this white dude flies past me he goes oh there you go way too

fast chases after him pulls him over starts going do you know how fast you were going and the guy goes yeah yeah sorry i'm in a rush and then before the cop can starts asking for more questions he looks in the back and there's 12 penguins sitting in the back of the ute and he goes oh just before we start talking about the ticket that i need to give you why are there 12 penguins in the back of the ute he goes oh mate i've got these penguins i don't know what to do with them

um you know they're you know they're a bit of a pain to handle they're a bit hard to deal with i'm just not really sure um where i should take them and the cop goes okay well you know you're obviously in a bit of strife let's uh there's a there's a zoo about 10 minutes down the road taking the zoo um what's that is this a joke or a monologue i'll let you off the ticket and uh and you know and you can just take take penguins to the zoo he goes yeah perfect no worries

so he drives off cop sits down about a week later the cop sits in the same position same white ute flies past pulls him over there goes the guy he goes mate the penguins are still in the back what are you meant to take them to the zoo the guy goes yeah we took him to the zoo i'm taking the beach this week no that's so good that wasn't even good i don't care i love it is it why is it real funny i need to tell it probably yeah there's a real funny guy at

work and he tells he's got the best jokes grigsy yeah he's out it was it is and this is one of his favorites and it's a bit crass so what's the difference between a uh pickpocket and a pebble tom don't know this is gonna be the end of the end of the podcast so make sure it's good it's gonna be the tagline on the podcast what's the difference one snatches watches the other one watches snatches thanks lads