S3E05 · Caitlin & Gemma from Fusion

- Hey team, so for today's podcast, I sat down with Caitlin and Gemma from Fusion, a local community organization who help at-risk youth. Now it's a phenomenal conversation. I highly recommend you stick around for the next 60 minutes and pay attention to it. But before we get stuck in, something I want you all to know about, and we talk about it during the podcast, but this is the Sleep In Your Car event. So very keen to get Virtus and the Virtus community to get around this event and support it. It's on the 6th of August at Mornington Park.

Basically, we spend the night connecting with our community, eating some good food, listening to some people talk, enjoying some music, and at the end of the night, we sleep in our car. So basically it gives us an opportunity to take a step towards empathy, to get a little bit of experience as to what it might be like for this at-risk community, not only in Moreton Peninsula, but nationwide and worldwide, what it feels like to not necessarily have the same bed to sleep in every night. A massive opportunity for us to connect with our community, to do good things, and to get the Virtus family out in force.

So I will put some links below. We talk about it in the podcast. Enjoy, really, really important episode today, so make sure you get around it. Be amazing. Love you lots. - Alrighty, beautiful people. We are back for another episode of the Virtus Performance podcast. I'm here with Gemma and Caitlin from Fusion. Welcome. - Hi, thanks for having us. - Hi, Lockie. - Thanks for coming. And I had to twist your arm a little bit, Caitlin, to come on. You were very apprehensive at first, but how are we feeling now? 'Cause you don't look nervous at all.

- Oh, that's great. - Good. Banksy's here. - Yeah. - We're on the couches, we're comfy, we're ready to go. So plan for the next hour or so. We just wanna dive in, and I wanna chat to you guys about what you do, what your day-to-day looks like, what Fusion is, and we'll round it out by talking about the Sleep in Your Car event we've got coming up in a couple of weeks, because Virtus family, get around it. It's going to be wonderful. - It's gonna be cold. - Yes, it will be cold. But that's the whole point of it, right?

There's a little bit of discomfort to experience that. - That's right, yeah. - Yeah, we can't all have a nice warm bed every night, and some of us unfortunately truly can't have one. And we know that not everyone can experience homelessness by going to a sleep out experience like this. But what we do understand is it takes really trying to see life from another person's point of view to do something within yourself that we call empathy, and I think it's a very healing process for all of us to enter into, not only for those that we are seeking to know what life is like for, but for ourselves.

- For sure, yeah. So, I mean, let's start from the start. What do you guys do? In a nutshell, if you were elevator pitch me, what do you guys do? - We work with young people at risk and young families. We're seeking to help our community to thrive by supporting those around us that are most vulnerable. - Good answer, great elevator pitch. Anything to add? - No, that's pretty much it. - All right, so as a whole, tell me about Fusion as an organisation. - Okay, so we're a national organisation, so we've got centres right across the country, and each centre identifies the needs of its community.

So what we do here on the Mornington Peninsula will look a bit different to what they do on the Sunny Coast or in Sydney or across NWA. And yeah, so coming out of the needs, Fusion Mornington Peninsula has been around since late '70s, early '80s. And through a process of connecting with local council and local groups, we landed in the centre that we're currently in, which was the, originally the Balcombe Army Barracks. And so, yeah, so the team back in the '80s started as a drop-in centre in Main Street. I think the building where Subway is, is that right?

Maybe? - I say that a fair bit, and to be honest, a few people correct me, but look, there's- - I say that. - Yes, look, there's not enough of them around, so I think we can still get away with it. Roughly in that district, Arrow's drop-in centre. Occasionally folks come out of the woodwork that say, "I used to go there when I was like 16," which is really cool. - Yeah, that's awesome. - So it started as a drop-in centre. And yeah, and then as I said, it sort of snowballed, and then the team moved into the building, really just in a kind of caretaker role.

Then there was an incident in the city where two young boys were sleeping in a dumpster, and they actually got tipped into the back of a compactor truck, and they were only able to rescue one of those young boys, so one died. And that really impacted the team here, recognising that that could have been the young people that they work with. So yeah, it kind of went from there, and we've been housing young people ever since. - What is something that you wish was common knowledge around what you guys do day to day? - Just one?

- 'Cause I guess, yeah, and we can spend the next hour talking about all of them and things like that, 'cause I guess most people would look at the sunny, shiny, morning to the peninsula, and not see the underbelly, and not see the homelessness, and not pay attention, but it doesn't take much awareness to start to notice that, hey, everyone isn't living in a multimillion dollar house on the beach. - Yes, so across all sorts of research programmes, ever since I've been around Fusion and young people, there's always been a really strong disadvantage message that comes through.

So whether that be the Mornington Peninsula has 10% higher average of young people experiencing depressive symptoms, that's one, for example. We have some of the most disadvantaged communities within the peninsula here. And those of us that live here, we know where they are, but it might not be the whole region, but those pockets really struggle. Now we're seeing what we're seeing within the housing crisis. Those folks will be struggling more. And what we're seeing after lockdown with the rises in family violence, more depressive symptoms, we have a very fragile cohort of people that every day all of us are rubbing shoulders with.

The way that we behave around those folks can be pivotal to their being able to get through that day. So when we throw around words like being kind or looking after your neighbour, it can be like something that you say just to, 'cause it seems like a good thing to say. - Feel good about yourself for a second and carry on living your life, right? - Yeah, but to be honest, it runs a lot deeper than that. - Yeah, 'cause I guess like from our perspective and part of this conversation is I want it to kind of be an awareness piece, but also a kind of what can we do to help or what can we do about it piece.

So yeah, what's the, I guess what, oh, let's maybe start with what does your day-to-day look like? What do you guys spend your days doing and advocating for and working on? And how is that working towards improving the problem and how can the community, why the community engage in this to not just have a big problem on few shoulders? Big question. - Oh, look, it's a pretty glamorous life, Lockie. - I can imagine. - You know, we just get up in the morning and tiptoe through all these folks that are getting housing now and it's just so wonderful.

No administration at all, no compliance to burden you. - Yeah, so my day-to-day is, so my role as the business manager, which also encompasses, you know, fundraising, managing volunteers. So yeah, kind of, I guess, backend sort of stuff. So not, I'm not, I don't know, on the frontline with the young people as such, although working from our offices, which is in the housing service, I'd certainly get to know them. - And they move in with you at times. - And they move in with us. So I certainly do get to see, yeah, see lots of stuff.

But yeah, my role is really about, yeah, largely about the resourcing and communicating. So making sure we have enough money to do what we wanna do, what we need to do, and yeah, communicating that the best way we can within our broader community. And Jemmy gets to do all the hard stuff. - Yeah, what does your day look like, Jemma? - I'm not too sure, can you come back to me in a week? No, so I live on site, and I generally start my day with a cup of tea and just sort of walk around the building and make sure everything's where it should be.

Nothing to, you know, someone might hate be having breakfast, say good day. I think the most important part of my day is making sure that the people that I interact with feel seen and valued, have someone smile when they enter the room. And at times there's a whole bunch of crisis that's floating around that. And now we have a very incredible team. Caitlin isn't the only member of it. And connecting with those guys and each one carries, it's a lot of responsibility. We don't accept a large amount of government funding because we want to be here for another 40 years.

And we also understand what best practice is for people that are at risk. And sadly, sometimes government funding can limit what you're able to do. And so there is, it's a big risk. And so making sure our team are also seen and valued. But yeah, and keeping that overall harmony, making sure that we all know what we're doing and why we're doing it. Because some days it's pretty heavy. - I can imagine, I can only try to imagine. How big is your team? - I think we have like six, I would call department leaders. And then there's other folks who are still core.

They might not be leading something, but they're a core part of the team, which they probably have another, I would say, if you include the op shops as well, maybe another six on top of that. And then we'd have around 30 active volunteers, 30 to 50 active. And then other folks that come out of the woodwork for events like sleep in your car or around Christmas time. And it's a growing beast. We're looking at building units for young families experiencing homelessness onsite. So there's always this, feels like sometimes that we're really greedy. We want more, more, more.

It's not that we're greedy, Lachie. It's that there's, we drink big. We think that we can help more people. Yeah, Caitlin, there's more needs. - It's what we want, right? You guys wanna be in that position where you're constantly trying to level up the amount of value and the amount of help you can distribute. - That's right. - I mean, that must almost be the hardest part of your job. I know Caitlin, we've spoken about it a little bit that constantly feeling like you're asking for resources in different ways, shape or form. Can you speak

to what that's like, knowing the impact it can make, but then also not wanting to, I guess, keep going back to the same way all the time? - Yeah, it's really challenging. Yeah, I mean, we have sort of, I guess, two major fundraisers in the year and then two appeals. So we have our big fundraising dinner, then we have Sleep in Your Car. We have a tax appeal and a Christmas appeal. And then we also have people who are regular monthly donors. So yeah, and then we're, but that doesn't cover everything. So we're applying for grants, but it is, yeah.

It's like a constant need. We need to continue to raise that money. And yeah, look, it is really hard some days and we, some weeks you'll look at the bank balance and go, "Oh, okay, this is tight." And then a grant comes in and that gives us a boost or some person just comes out of the woodwork with an amazing donation or what have you. So it does all get covered. But I don't know, I think for all of us who are on team, we just, I don't know, we just believe in the work so much.

Like we, I don't know, you just see the changes in a young person or an opportunity that comes. Actually, we were just at a home ground cafe, which does hospitality training for young people. And they were just, we were just watching them learning how to carry multiple plates and cups of coffee. And it was just like, it was actually just really heart warming watching them. And they were all taking it so seriously. And they were like, first they were just carrying a tray and then they'd add one cup or they'd carry one cup and then they'd add the next one.

And you just look at stuff like that and go, that's why we do it. That's why we keep asking for the money. - You see the, you see all the emails and all the calls and that presented to you in an action in the growth of an individual or group of individuals. - And I think one of the things we've been trying to do over the last couple of years and Gemma, probably, had been doing this for years, but is trying to more and more, I guess, bring people on the journey or get them to

engage with the fact that if we can make life better for these young people, or once we build our little village for young families, if we can make their life better then that actually enriches our whole community. - Oh, for sure. - So we're not just asking people to support us, whether that be financially or through volunteering or what have you, because we, just because we need it, but we actually believe that that will have a long-term benefit for the whole community. - Yeah, which I guess that's what we're here for, right? We're here to grow community and build community and help, not only help the people who are most at risk, but help them contribute back to their community.

How did you two both get started with Fusion and how long have you both been a part of it? - I was hoping you wouldn't- - Origin Stories. - Yeah, Origin Stories, yeah, my favourite. Okay, so I've been working for Fusion for around 15 years, lived on site for 15 years, probably a bit longer, knew about it. I actually used to run, manage the Video Easy store in Benton Square before there was a, before video, DVD went to DVD heaven. And I got out before that happened, but I used to run the store. And so I worked for a group of stores and I was often not at my store, but training managers or doing stuff in other areas.

And I trained my young staff, 'cause you know, labour hours and labour costs, and to operate the store without my presence. So I had, you know, 16, 18 to 18 year olds receiving stock, processing stock, dealing with customer complaints, opening, closing, all the things that were required to operate the business, follow up with distributors like Paramount, if there were problems with the stock delivery, all those sorts of things, ordering items. And then we used to have these customers come in at least once a week. There was a couple of folks that seem to be in

their, you know, late 20s, early 20s, they seem to have their act together, but then they'd have like six really intimidating looking young people with them. And they'd walk around the store and they'd get stuff. And you know, when you're working in retail and you've got things like Xboxes and PlayStations, you keep an eye out and you think, this is a problem. But then they had like a carer with them when they were in a group. So I started asking questions. I reasonably blunt when I meet people and started to work out what they were connected to.

And then one of those guys came back to the shop and said, I'm gonna run some little community engagement programs around to build community. And he's standing there with one of these young people with him and a balloon animal that he'd been making. And I thought, you're off your head. And the next thing I know, I'm going along to a community meal there, sussing them out and seeing folks do life together with this cohort of kids. At times he couldn't even tell which one was the worker and which one was the young person. And I thought, this is powerful.

I wonder if there's something I can do to be part of this. And yeah, I got really in over my head, really. Ended up moving out of a nice home with an in-ground pool in Matalyza and into a refuge with an eight year old daughter at the time. And yeah, wondered if I had anything to bring to support young people. It wasn't until I started doing some youth work training, I realised I'd been doing youth work for a long time. And yeah, then a few years later, I'm the team leader and the rest is history. - Yeah, wow.

What was it that kind of, was it just curiosity that made you start asking those questions and dive in or was it something? - I was looking for the kind of meaning in life that is not equatable by a financial bottom line. And I wanted to choose to live by those values. I wanted to demonstrate to my daughter that life isn't made up with the rule book you're handed in school. And I also, I have a strong faith and I believe that we all are part of making the world a better place where we find ourselves.

So all of those things, and I'm a passionate headstrong person gets me in a lot of trouble. So that's kind of- - Caitlin's face when you said that you're a couple of things you've said, I can sense that, I can sense that already. - Yeah, and I'm not making any apologies. - Good, which we love. Yeah, awesome. What about you Caitlin? - Yeah, so I came across fusion when my kids were, I don't know, I keep saying a certain number of years, but as they get older, that timeframe is changing. - And there's a few of them Caitlin.

- Yeah, I know. So yeah, so probably when Soph was maybe in about year nine, I'm guessing, she went to one of the local church youth groups and it was really through that. So at the time fusion and this church, did camps together and what have you. So it was really through that connection just as a parent initially and the kids going on camps. And it was really interesting because I, growing up and the choices that we'd made about where we lived on the peninsula and what have you, we hadn't really rubbed shoulders with a lot of the kids that we now support.

And I actually just really loved like sending Soph and Em off on smash camp, which is like this camp in September, which was mental really. And it was just this weird blending of, I don't even know how to describe it, but it was great. It was really good for all the kids who were on those camps. So yeah, so it kind of just sort of went from there, sort of floated around as a parent for a few years. And then I had some time where I offered to volunteer. So I was volunteering in the office. - She came to me and said- - To training.

- I'd like to help and do some things. And I thought, do you really? (laughing) I don't know what, you seem really functional. Are you sure you? (laughing) I'm really sorry in advance. (laughing) - Yeah, so I think that was, I don't know, maybe about five years ago, I'm not really sure. So yeah, so now I'm kind of stuck. - Well, I'm truly entrenched, yeah. - Yeah, and obviously Peter as well running the op shops and yeah, so it's a bit of a family affair. (laughing) - True love. - But yeah, I just think that,

I don't know, I just recognise that every young person deserves the opportunity that my kids have, and we don't have everything by any stretch of the imagination, but we're relatively functional family. We've done okay and so I guess, I don't know, figured we might have something of value to offer. - Yeah, it's fascinating. I find it fascinating how, like we live in such a wonderful part of the world and we're so lucky and when you have the perspective of working with people that you guys worked with or just being in different parts of the community, you start to realise how impactful, how much of an impact the birth lottery can have on your life, right?

Like people talk about, I've worked my way from X to Y and I did this by myself or whatever. By the end of the day, it's purely a lottery. We either get lucky or we don't. But to know that there are people like you guys in the world who are actively trying to make your communities a better place, it's brilliant. So bravo, good from you guys. Could you, and I guess this is, I kind of know the answer to this question, but do you feel as though you could go back to living the life you lived before?

- I'm so disinterested in chasing money. The capitalist world is a puzzle to me, why we bother. I've been helping my mum who's become quite fragile and she needs help with her shopping. I don't go to shopping centres and none of us did during lockdown. But walking around one of the local larger shopping centres with my mum to get her stuff, I can't believe all of the things that go into the shop. People buy the things and then there's more things that come and every few weeks there's different things and every single shop is filled with them.

What are we doing? What a waste of our time and energy to put these things in our house. And then all those things come to our op shop. Now keep bringing those things to the op shop 'cause it really helps our bottom line. But what are you doing? What a waste of a life. You know who, I don't know what your spiritual background is but from a lot of our points of view, you get one. I don't wanna do it accumulating crap. - Yeah, and then you've got too much crap and you can't move and-- - And you have arguments and bright bust up relationships because you want more money for more crap.

It's just, it's nonsense. We are blind to our own nonsense. So yeah, the thought of being in any sort of a corporate world or a bottom line, makes my skin crawl. At the same time, we're trapped in it where we have to ask for money. - Yeah, do you feel that resistance against, I mean, 'cause you've kinda gotta play the game, right? - Yeah, it is a game, yeah. - You've gotta play the game and you've gotta be part of the rat race to drive the contributions in the way that allows you to do the most work.

But at the same time, you despise the system that you need to contribute to. - Yeah, we spend a lot of time thinking of people like yourself, Locky. Thank you for Lock. Thank you for him, his heart. He really wants to help the community, that's great. What a great person. Just so we can see the people within the system that are also part of the system and value those people. 'Cause it's not the individuals, it's what we all get stuck in, that's the problem. Not that we have a problem with you. - Yeah, I know, but this is it.

Like I journaled on this yesterday that like everything, like the cities we live in, the pathways we take, the roads we drive on, like everything is man-made and everything is made up. And from a, I find this whole circle of influence thing fascinating, right? Like my circle of influence is so small. What I can control and what I can't control is so minute and the insignificance of that. I love that from a what do I get to do today and how can I make my world a better place? But we all kind of just fall into living the way we live, right?

And it's not necessarily a bad thing or a good thing. It's just the way we do it. And it takes people like you guys and people who are actively going, you know what, like I see the system, I've become aware of it. And I understand these certain rules that we've set or even like, almost like frameworks that we built on the fact that we built, like they're there because we've decided that they're there. And you guys are actively going, okay, well, this is a system that's not working for a whole community of people. What can we do about it?

There's no question. I'm just kind of like roofing to get my head around it. But yeah, what's the, so if, you know, outside of, I guess there's a volunteering side of things, but what can people do to help contribute and to help? 'Cause this is a community wide issue, right? Like it's not more than, you guys are more into peninsula centric, but it's universal. So what can people do to build those actions into their lives to help? That's like the million dollar question. - Yeah, so I guess there's, I don't know, I guess there's a few core things, but one is education.

So understanding what's going on in your community. So I mean, the peninsula has a beautiful facade and it's really easy to ignore what, you know, you scratch the surface and find out what's really going on. So yeah, so I think education, understanding what's going on, I guess. Yeah, from a practical level, we're always looking for volunteers. People can, you know, donate money, you know, like there's all the obvious kind of stuff. But I think, yeah, I think, I don't know, I feel like that education one is really the biggest 'cause that's when I think all the other things flow from that.

So once you understand and start to be impacted a little bit by what you're saying, what you're hearing, that's when you start thinking about, - I need to do something. - Am I doing, you know, my life in the best way or am I contributing? Am I using my resources, all that sort of stuff. - And I think considering the values that you live by, that your family lives by, really checking out what they are, challenging those, is this someone I want to be? Is this, you know, and you start those thoughts, you create them into, you know, habits that then has that transformative impact to change your character that influences those around you.

That, and that, and particularly parents, you know, are you raising children that have the capacity for compassion or are you raising children to be part of the capitalist society? Because we don't need more of them. It's been a problem for a while and it will be a problem in the future. Or are you bringing people that have the capacity to bring healing and joy and love to themselves and live happily with whatever they have? Or are you just gonna, you know, insert another rat into the race that, and for me, it comes down to the core of your person as the values you choose.

- Yeah, yeah, and I'm massive on values. I think being able to identify and articulate the things that you value is incredibly important. And, you know, the fact that some people get to 20, 30, 40 years of age and can't articulate their values, I think is part of the wider problem because it kind of, you leave yourself almost blind to a whole, you know, a whole experience of actually doing the things that you love to do. And I guess there's that, you know, there's that push and pull in the, like I said, the capitalist society

that we live in where it's like, well, okay, well, I've got to go to school and I've got to get a job and I've got to buy a house and I've got to do X, Y, Z, and I've got to follow the path. And then you get to, you know, a lot of, and I'm in a very fortunate position here where I'm lucky enough to be able to talk to so many different people in the community. And just the, it seems like, and you know, we attract a certain type of people into a place like this, but so many people don't love the life they live.

And I think that's almost like the crux of the issue. If you appreciate and are grateful for and have perspective and are able to enjoy the life that you live, then your capacity for giving and capacity for contributing to everyone else grows. What's, you know, with the journey that you guys have both been on and are still on, what are the things that you think have helped you shift from, like we mentioned before, kind of like your pre-fusion life and your post-fusion life? Like what are the things that allowed you to make that transition and then kind of go, well, there's not a chance in the world I'm going back?

- I think for me, just realising that just none of that stuff matters. So I guess over Peter's and my, you know, like our married life, we've gone through the different phases. So we've gone through the, you get married, you buy a house, you have your babies, and then you buy another house. And you think that that's a new, decide you're gonna send your kids to private schools. And then you realise that was a really bad decision. Then you have to sell your house and then life goes to shit. Then you have to kind of regroup and figure out what's gonna happen.

And in the middle of all that, you go, why are we doing any of this? You know, which bits of this matter? And I can remember when we were selling our house and people were like, oh no, don't sell your house. You'll never get back into the market. Oh no, but what about your family stability? You've got to have a house and all this stuff. And all along, we were just like, we're like really solid as a family. And as long as we're all together and we've got our health and whatever, like none of that, it'll all just figure itself out.

And so, you know, all these years later, we still don't own a house. Not sure that we ever will. And, you know, like, you know, I look at our kids, they're all doing fine, not without challenges for sure. But yeah, you work out really quickly when you get thrown a couple of curve balls, what matters and what doesn't. And then I think that gives you the capacity to think more, it certainly did for me, think more about the other people around me. Yeah, so, yeah. - That's a good answer. I think you've got to work out what your purpose is.

What drives your passion? And I don't think the education system sets people up to work that out. I think we squash our dreamers and our visionaries with rules and, you know, banking information into them that they can repeat like little puppets. But we need to release the dreamer from us and find our purpose. And what is that? And I believe for a more whole world, it's the dreamers that can bring that compassion and care for neighbour in a way that really matters and is tangible. And I think you've got to find your tribe that also

sing that same song in their heart, that then you can take on the really big monsters that are around us 'cause there's a lot of them and homelessness is just one of many. Yeah, what is your why? Why are you doing what you're doing? And if it's some sort of, and work out what it is rolling around in your head that is your why, then pull it apart and work out where it came from. 'Cause if the first thing that comes to your mind is to pay the mortgage, to have security for the house and all that laugh, that's been banked.

- Yeah, you've banked that in by the system that you're in. There's more to life than that. - Yeah, I think like asking yourself the question, like you said, is this useful and why am I doing this? Because I think all, for lack of a better words, big word for it, but all enlightenment comes from awareness. Once we start to build awareness, we can then kind of answer those questions with our eyes wide open, rather than kind of just going through life with tunnel vision on and going, well, yeah, there's all of these things I could experience, but hey, I got to pay the mortgage, I got to pay the bills.

Which is obviously, yeah, not necessarily a mortgage, but bills and cost of living is part of life. So we've kind of, like we said before, we've got to play the game. But I try and make sure I make all of my decisions based on what my values are. So during the lockdowns, Jim was closed for a big chunk of time. Like my two biggest values are people and place. Like I want to be in places that with people I love in a nutshell. So when we were kind of going, well, what do we do with the gym?

What do we, do we open it? Do we close it? Do we do online programs? We do X, Y, Z. Everything came back to, okay, well, how can we support and contribute to our people? And how can we make sure that the place is here ready to open back up when we're ready to? And that just, almost that purpose or that why kind of gave us the strength to keep going and to keep showing up and keep finding different ways to contribute. Do you guys have, and I'm sure you do, but do you guys have days where you go, this is all too hard, I don't know what to do anymore?

- Yeah, they have them from Sunday through to Sunday again, every week. - Yeah, what keeps you going? Like on those days and on those harder days, what keeps you going? Is it leaning back to that purpose? Leaning back to that why? - Yeah, yeah. And just spending time with people and really seeing them. I think a couple of years ago before lockdown, or maybe it was during lockdown. Lockdown and COVID is such a, just wanna say, such a helpful thing for us in the topic that we're talking about. Suffering helps you to pull apart all of the structures that you've put within yourself that have created the little robots that we become and we need to pull them apart.

And one of those greatest, the greatest circuit breaker I can think of is suffering, which is a bit of a shame 'cause none of us really like it or wanna do it. - It's where all the growth comes from. - Yeah, a little handball of suffering is helpful. But during that period, I really started to spend about a lot of time considering how each person is gift. And there's never gonna be another version of that individual ever, ever. And that's such a powerful thought. So to spend time with someone, even someone that annoys the crap out of me, there's a lot of them out there.

You've seen society, haven't you? Yeah, and recognise that and just be present with that and the understanding that this is gift. And I then wanna get a bit more fight in me to make sure that that person has every opportunity to experience healing, experience acceptance, a life that has more to it than the fear that they've been living with and doors shut and all of those horrible things our young people have experienced. But yeah, so being present and truly listening. Not all of us have developed the skill to listen to another person. Often when we're talking to folks or someone's sharing themselves, we're thinking about what we're gonna say next.

And it's just something that we do, we're human. But the problem with that is you miss the person. It's a bit about you then, it's not about that person. So finding ways to really consider the gift that is the others around you. And maybe you might not be quite as upset when they cut you off in traffic or walking in front of you 'cause they realise they got stuff going on. Their life isn't easy. They're dealing with a dose of that suffering right now or whatever it might be. And it allows us to be a little bit more humanising.

- Yeah, I've got a friend that whenever we hang out, he'll send me a message afterwards saying thank you for sharing time and space. And I just love that, just that whole idea of when you're with someone, you'll be with them. And it's something that I struggle with all the time 'cause there's 17 messages going off at a time and emails and there's all of these different things. But I think that that's something that, whether we're good at it or not, we can always come back to that of, okay, be present, share the time, share the space and engage in a way that drives curiosity and drives interest and drives learning and introspection as well.

Yeah, let's talk about the Sleep In Your Car event. So obviously a big part of this is kind of an awareness play but let's talk about action and what you guys are doing from an event perspective. 6th of August at Moynton Park, tell us everything we need to know. - Okay, so Sleep In Your Car has been around for how many years? How many years have you been doing it? - Well, we had those gap of years that I think they might've been 20 years in three, but I'm pretty sure it's around six, seven years. - Bit of fuzziness.

- Yeah, so six or seven years. So yeah, so in a nutshell, it's an event in Moynton Park and it's at the end of Homelessness Week. So it's a week where a lot of orgs really focus on the issue of homelessness. So it's very deliberate that it's in the middle of winter. We ask people to come out on a cold, often wet, windy night, but it is, yeah. It's about coming together as a community, learning some stuff. So we draw together other services that we work with. So we have speakers, we have entertainment, we have food.

And then, yeah, then we ask people to sleep in their car. And that's part of the empathy aspect of it, to build some awareness of what that might be like for somebody who has to do that on a daily basis. So yeah, so it's awareness and fundraising. - Yeah, how do people get involved? - Yeah, so you jump on our website. - Yeah, which is? - If you Google Fusion/Moynton/Moynton/Moynton, you'll get there. It's gonna be okay. - Don't ask me URLs. Yeah, so it's a GoFundraise. It's all pretty standard fundraising. You create the Virtus team, you sign up.

- Just for me to do, that's a today job? - Yeah, yeah. So, and yeah, you get your friends and family and your mates to support you. - Yeah. - But it really is a great, it is a really good night. Despite all the things that appear unpleasant about it, it's always just really fun. And there is just something really special about, I don't know, just that coming together. - Yeah. - That's good. - Yeah, and I guess that empathy, ideally we don't have to always experience what the other person have experienced to be able

to develop empathy, but this is an opportunity for everyone to, for at least 12 hours, put yourself in the shoes of people that aren't as fortunate as we are. - And challenge yourself. Now I've thought about these things. What could be different about my life? What changes could I make? - Yeah. - How will I appreciate what is around me? Those sorts of things. We're calling this a first step in empathy. It's not gonna solve all the problems of the world, but what it can do is get a bunch of people, open their hearts to caring about someone that's not themselves.

And that's a massive thing for our society. And in that action, you actually will be paying for a roof over people's heads. That money goes directly to our local centre. And it's also a community event. So you can invite your mates to come down. We've got free Burma cafe, get some Burmese curry. So good. And listen to stories and things that might help you to consider how you live your life differently that can benefit those around you in your sphere of influence. - And I think also over the COVID years, we were still able to run the event.

Wasn't in the park, we did it online. And the great thing about that was it was a really good way for more people to be able to engage with it. So there were families who perhaps weren't able to sleep in their car traditionally as we'd been doing it. So people slept on the floor in the lounge room, they slept in a tent in the back garden. They got really creative with just doing something different than just sleeping in their bed at home on that night. So that's still a possibility as well. So if there are families who wanna engage but don't wanna all sleep in their car at the park, they could go home, sleep out in the lounge room.

Like there's lots of ways you can interact with it. - Just a shift away from the norm. - Yeah, again, just about that. Yeah, thinking about it. - Yes, and we named it sleep in your car because a lot of the social awareness is someone that's homeless is in their forties. They've ruined their life through alcohol and drink, gambling or something, and they're somewhere down in Melbourne in an alley smelling pretty rough. And the reality is that that's only what, four to 6%. We haven't seen the new census data on this yet, but traditionally we say it's four to 6% of people experiencing homelessness in Australia.

But it is those overcrowded homes where someone said, look, you can stay here tonight, but there's the couch or there's a roller mat on the floor or someone's sleeping in their car with their family, or they've managed to pay for a caravan at a caravan park for a period of time. Homelessness is about the stability of the housing that exists for someone. And for a large percentage of those folks, and a lot of those are young people in our region. Yeah, the stats are quite shocking. And I would say that when we start getting the census data out this time round, we'll be a fright.

- Yep. - So those misconceptions, what are the, you know, from I guess your pre-fusion life to your post-fusion life, what are those misconceptions that you were kind of, you know, dumbstruck by that kind of just whacked you in the face 'cause you're like, I didn't realise that, this or that. What did you learn? - Oh, look, I think for me, I mean, I grew up in a pretty middle-class, Eastern Melbourne suburban kind of life. Yeah, I didn't really have any concept other than the stereotypes. - 'Cause that's, I guess that's where my brain definitely goes, right?

We talk about homelessness. - Yeah, you absolutely do. The, you know, person on the, yep, definitely, you know, working in the city in my early, you know, early 20s, you know, the people in the doorway or what have you, that was definitely, yeah, my view. And so, yeah, I think, yeah, having that challenged and seeing the people, like when you start to look beyond what the challenge might be and recognise that this is a young person who is of value and of equal value to any one of us. And that, just with a bit of help, that their life can just get completely turned around.

And, you know, I think the stereotypes of, I don't know, drugs, alcohol, socioeconomics, certainly some of that is, you know, part of it, but not always. Yeah. I think we'd all be surprised at, you know, like one significant thing going wrong in our lives can set us off on a completely different path. So it could be, I don't know, dad in the family getting injured at work, can't work anymore. And like the snowball effect of what that could do to a family. So like, there's just so many scenarios of how things can change so quickly. Yeah, and most of the time in your experience, is it not the fault?

It's obviously not the fault of the person. It's the, you know, being part of a system that doesn't support when things like that happen. - Yeah, it's tricky, it's tricky, Lockie. I haven't yet met a single person that's never made a mistake. And a lot of us have benefited from our mistakes. Some people don't have the kind of stability in their world to deal with one or the multiple that come their way. And so strengthening someone's capacity to live in a complex world is what we do. And that might be helping them to know who's who in their community that is stable and helpful.

And to help them to develop skills to be able to work, attend school, attend whatever medical help that's needed until they can operate a little bit more independently. But none of us should be existing in a society independently. We are interconnected, but we turn our backs on certain people, certain ones. And I think that that's the ugly, ugly part of it. I think I'm often shocked that someone can get to the age of 16, 17, and have so much hurt, that their behaviour comes out in such an intense way, but all behaviour is caused. You know, I think 16 years ago, this was a little bubba in someone's arms.

Tiny little sponge of a brain, ready for life. What happened to you? - It's fascinating, almost like a thought experiment, right? Is like, you know, the person that flips you off when they cut you off in traffic, when you cut them off in traffic, or the person that you know that's really annoying, or the person that you just can't stand, like everyone at one point in time was that little, gorgeous, defenseless little baby. And every single person on earth was that way. And it's easy to look at different people and kind of go, they've always been this way.

But we are a product of our environment and we're a product of our upbringing and product of where we're born and what we do and the decisions we make and what we choose. But so much of it is outside of our control. And I think that it's, you know, that starting with empathy and being able to go, okay, well, this person was a little baby. Like even just to think that is kind of a mind blowing thought process that surely kind of gives you an opportunity to go, well, maybe they haven't had the same level of support.

And even safety net that so many people have and a lot of people listening to this podcast would have, you know, they've got the, I know if I fuck up and make a mistake that there's a community of people that are here to help and support and things like that. And some people just are not fortunate enough to have community. What advice would you have for people who are struggling to engage in and be a part of a community? - Yeah, reaching out is really hard for so many of us, isn't it? There's different things that you've got to learn how to be.

Some of them is about vulnerability and transparency. - Yep. - But just keep knocking on those doors, look for places in your local area and go and talk to people. It might be some of us go and check out a few church mobs. There's community drop-in centres. There's a great one down in Main Street, Mornington, the information centre. You can get a free coffee from Monday to Thursday, free and a toastie. There's folks that will chat to you. Homeground cafe, brilliant place for that. - Yep. - Yeah, where others gather, where other people gather. And it might not be the first place you go to that is your fit, but you've got to keep trying.

Just like when you go to a doctor and the first one isn't your vibe, you've got to try another one and get a second opinion. Keep getting those second opinions, but you're seeking ways to be connected and work out. You prioritise that as a value, really. - Yep. - Yeah, and sometimes it's a give and take. - Yeah, for sure. - I think that give and take's really important. You want to be a part of community. I look at community and friendships even as like a bank account. We want to be able to make withdrawals when we need it and we want to be able to make deposits when we need it.

We want to be able to contribute back in different ways and it almost helps us drive that quality and drive that connection if it goes both ways. I guess a big part of being a community is the support that it gives you and what it enables you, but the big part of it is you being able to contribute and make that community better and make the world a better place through your own actions and things like that as well. Are you both, and this is a question for both of you that I want you to

answer independently, are you, with all of your experience and all that you've seen and been through along the journey, are you inherently optimistic or pessimistic about the state of the world and future? - Oh, I'm optimistic, yeah. I don't know, there's so many reasons why, but I don't know, I'll just give you one example. So we have a young girl who lives with us. She's been with us for, I don't know, nearly a year. She's doing year 12. She'll be the first person in her family to do year 12. - That's amazing. - She has so many challenges, but she's smashing year 12.

She's got a part-time job. She's part of the LTP driver learning program that the council supports. So she has a mentor driver. She drives, they've worked out how long it's gonna take her to get her hours by the time she's able to get her license. She's just achieving all these amazing things, despite the challenges that her life threw at her. And that makes me feel optimistic. Like I think if she can be overcoming all these things, and in the midst of just being a normal 17 year old as well, yeah, then there's hope, definitely hope. - Yeah, there's always hope.

What about you Jemma? - Yeah, okay. I'm an optimistic person and I gravitate towards, let's get this done. But I think that I've seen enough monsters to know they're not going anywhere. But I also truly believe that with true compassion, you can absorb the hurt from the monsters that then brings healing to others. So if the more of us truly learn how to be compassionate people, truly learn how to empathise more swanton families that can have young girls stay with them or boys or whoever, non binary folk, whatever, to be that host family can do something that there is a sacrifice to themselves.

So another person can find life in a more whole way than they've had it before. That absorbs the monsters and the pain that they will continue to put out. They're not going anywhere. So compassion needs to stay present amongst us. And that's the battle of good and evil. It's why we like Star Wars, you know? The empire is hard to get rid of. It's probably not going anywhere, but we've got to keep being present with hope, with love, with compassion and kindness, empathy, and it's hard work. It's painful, but it's worth it. It's worth getting up in the morning.

- 100%. Yeah, I'm optimistic knowing there's people like you guys in the world. - Well, you're one of those people, Lachie. You've got that too. - Anything else you guys would like to add before we finish up? - Thank you for having us. Thank you for listening. It's a long time of us talking, you know. I'm not gonna say crap, but you know. - It was very important. It was very important. And yeah, there'll be a Virtus team first, leaving your car event. So, you know, if you're sitting at home, listening or watching this or you're driving your car, let's tee it up and get down there on the 6th of August and make it happen.

Thank you guys so much for coming. - And I also, just a very small incentive for people to join the team. I've got 10 beanies here. So the first 10 people who joined the team get a free beanie. - Excellent. And if anyone's listening and they're like, "You know what? "I want to talk to someone about what it might mean "to rent out a room in my house." Contact us, have a yarn. We can support young people that are at that step ready for that. And it will change your life for the better and change someone else's life.

And any other ideas that you've got, give us a buzz. - Awesome, love that. - Thanks, Lucky. - Thank you. - Have a good day.