Automatically transcribed, so expect the odd wrong name or word.
Hey legends, welcome to yet another week of the Virtus Performance podcast. Before I get stuck into today's guest, I would like to thank all you guys for listening. Please keep sharing, liking, subscribing, all that fun stuff so more people can listen to me talk rubbish and drink gin and stuff like that. My guest today is Dan McQuinn. Dan is a lawyer by trade, he's an entrepreneur, he's a world traveler, he's someone who has uprooted his life a bunch of times and come out from each move and change with new life experiences and new learnings and he's a very insightful, legendary human who is also 12 out of 10 in the looks department.
If you don't like listening to him just look at the pictures and stuff I guess. There he is. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day. I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. Dan McQuinn, mate. Hello. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Great to be here. It's good to have you on. You've been a highly sought after guest and managed to match up our schedules and get you in.
We've locked it in. First question for you, what gets you out of bed in the morning? I can start with being cheesy and say my alarm. Everyone gives that, food or coffee, so in a more philosophical sense. No, in a philosophical sense. That's a very good question, Lachie. Gotta start hard and then it just gets easier from here. What gets me out of bed in the morning? I think… Let me rephrase it. Why do you do? Why do I do what I do? I think I want to answer one way and I'm going to answer the other way.
The real reason I do what I do at the moment is because I need to and there are bills to pay, but the reason I do the things that I love is very different and the things that I love are the things that are important to me. The reason I do the things that I love is obviously because I love them but also because they fit with my values and they're things that I feel passionate about. The reason I get out of bed in the morning when I want to get out of bed in the morning and I think that's probably where the question is leading.
When I want to get out of bed in the morning, I'm doing something or I'm going to be doing something that I really want to do because it's something that fits with my values and in particular I think my values of… I'm going to answer your question in a very long winded way. Mate, go and answer it. That's the whole point of the podcast. I was taught from a very young age and I've realised this only recently that my mum always said whenever you borrow something you return it better than you got it and for
that reason I think it's always stuck with me that I've always wanted to return something better than I've got it but I've also wanted to take something and make it better than when I took it. So when I'm doing something that I'm really passionate about, I want it to be better than when I got it and I guess that's sort of where passion comes from for me and what gets me out of bed is to make something better. Make things better. I like that. Fuck, that's good. That's really good. What are your other values? You
seem like the kind of person that would have sat down and thought about it and probably written down your values and what are your values? I think my key value and this is the reason that I'm a lawyer is justice. I have a really, really strong sense of justice and I think probably most of my values stem from that so I think if you ask anyone close to me my strongest cause is the environment and that comes down to environmental justice and again it comes down to leaving something better than you found it and that's
the world that we come from and the world that we live in and the world that we're born into and the world that we'll die in. So yeah, justice is my key value and then environment is probably the one that sticks out from there. Awesome. I don't know, what are my other values? Passion, justice and environment is a good place to start. Yeah, I think it is a good place to start. We'll stick with them for now. Talk to me about, and this is going to be a very long-winded answer to a very simple question, but talk to me about what was it like growing up and were you always going to be a lawyer?
Alright, what was it like growing up? I grew up in a, I was very lucky to be born into the family I was. There were never any issues, Mum and Dad love each other very much, they're a credit to one another and they're very inspiring in the way that even in their 60s, sorry Mum did tell me that at a real age, in their 60s they still cuddle and they still love each other and it was really great. It was a good childhood, it had its interesting moments, I impaled myself on a star picket when I was 16 and almost died, we can cover that later.
We will come back to that story for everyone that's listening. I think there's five near-death experiences, but overall I was very lucky to survive there. Where did you grow up? Mount Eliza. Mount Eliza, awesome. Yes, your work peninsula, sick. And was I always going to be a lawyer, I think when I was 10 I first wanted to be a lawyer. Really? That's pretty cool that something you said to yourself when you were 10 ended up coming true or being a thing. Yeah. What was that journey from, talk me through the steps from being 10 and going, you know what I think I want to be a lawyer and I want to know why, to actually be a lawyer.
I don't think it was ever even a conscious thing, I really believe if you genuinely want something you can make it happen. And I think being an innocent 10 year old and genuinely wanting something just was almost so instilled into my subconscious that it just made it happen. There's a quote when you, I'm going to paraphrase it, but it was Paolo Coelho, the alchemist. Yeah the guy who wrote the alchemist. We were talking about it before. I always struggle to pronounce his name, so I just say, yeah just call him PC. Yeah, PC. So PC. Shout it out.
If you're listening. That's a shout out, pal. But paraphrasing one of his quotes is when you really truly desire something the universe will conspire with you to make it happen. And I just, that's not a quote, but I love that quote and in his words it's even better. And I think the innocence of a 10 year old is you don't let limiting beliefs, you don't believe limiting beliefs and you have a reason to sort of, you don't even have a reason to listen to them let alone sort of entertain them. And I think from 10 until even now I just sort of had in my head, yep, I want to be a lawyer so I'm going to be a lawyer.
That's cool. Yeah. Do you feel like that belief and that I guess drive to make that dream a reality has come a lot from your parents? Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So Dad's always been a professional, I've always known Dad as a really hardworking man. Mum worked in finance as well, she was always an incredibly hardworking woman. But I think, yeah, where Mum and I had a really strong sort of mother-son bond and I think Mums always have a good bond with their sons, Dad and I always had a bit of a, like a really great relationship and it was always filled with love but I also sort of had that admiration for what that did.
Yeah. Not that I didn't for Mum but I think it was sort of, I didn't see Dad as much but I always admired what he did. That's cool. And I didn't see him. Yeah. Yeah. What are the main traits that I think that you have, I guess, downloaded from your parents or learnt from your parents? I actually think I've probably inherited more from Mum for whatever reason. I think Mum's a very cheeky woman in a good way, Mum, if you're listening. She's a lot of fun, she's very caring, really empathetic, sometimes to a fault and I think I've inherited that as well.
And just a lot of fun, she's a bit of a joker and doesn't take anything too seriously and then from Dad I think I've inherited professionalism and sort of the typical corporate success sort of elements of being a straight shooter and being good on the phone which I'm really grateful for because I think a lot of our generation is missing that. I always admired Dad, I remember sitting in the car and I was probably around when I thought I wouldn't be a lawyer. He was on the loudspeaker on this old mobile phone and I just remember him talking and thinking like that's really cool that he's just making things happen and he's driving his car.
So I think probably, yeah, professionally from Dad and personally from Mum. I like it. Yeah. It's really cool. Talk me through the process. Were you good at school? Yeah. You were a good student. Yeah. Yeah. I was smart ass, but I was smart. Not surprised. So becoming a lawyer was more about just knowing that's what you wanted to do and did you have to work harder at school because you knew you had to get certain levels? No. Yeah. I don't think I was mature enough to work harder at school. I didn't quite get the marks for law but I went and did a year of commerce to get into law.
Yeah. And I was so dogged in wanting to do law I actually ditched the commerce. Yeah. Just did straight law which in hindsight I probably could have kept the extra degree but that is what it is. Yeah. But yeah, I always enjoyed school. I wasn't particularly popular. I was quite overweight until I was about 15 or 16. Mate, you're a pitcher of health and fitness now. That's cool. Thank you. 12 out of 10. I'll make sure I put a photo of him as I plug it. I'll do a quick shred for a few weeks. Mate, you're looking good.
No, I think I was more studious and I had friends, I certainly had friends but I wasn't by any stretch a popular kid and that helped probably me focus on studies. That being said, I was a bit of a smart-ass and didn't always do as I should have in terms of studies and everything so I think I'm lucky that I've got a pretty good head on my shoulders and was able to get good enough marks to get into at least commerce and then transfer to law but it wasn't really, I think again it was more
the subconscious that was pushing me through in terms of, you know, I had that in my head that I'm going to be a lawyer so I made the right decisions and then the conscious might not have always helped. Where did you study? Monash. Monash. What was uni like being a law student because I think as a excited-sided student and someone that's, I guess it's a, I'm not, I don't love school, I don't love like the education side of what I do, like I love learning but I don't love the sit down, do assignments kind of thing.
It just seems to me something that would be so far out of my comfort zone I couldn't deal with it. What was it like? Was it something that you just got done? Boring. Yeah, boring. Awful. Just ticking boxes? Yeah, it was. How long was the law degree? Well, I did it in four and a half years. Yeah. Yeah. It was, no, there were some subjects that I really enjoyed but overall it was, I don't think the education model is right the way it's doing at the moment, sitting in lectures and taking notes and then being examined for three hours to test your knowledge.
I understand that people that, and like a lot of the most successful people in the world haven't been to uni, don't go to college or whatever in the US, and it's just like, well that's it, you understand why, because it's, sitting in lecture theatres just trying to absorb information where most of us aren't built that way. Yeah. What would you do to change it? The education system. Yeah. Because this is something that comes up, tends to come up fairly regularly on the podcast with people not really enjoying schooling and not necessarily enjoying what they do at school but then getting out into the industry that they've been studying and loving it.
Yeah. Yeah. What would you change about the school system? I think I'd just make it more practical. I think exams are terribly outdated as a standardised test. I think I'm a lawyer again now after a bit of time off and I've never been put in a position where I have three hours to write my answer to a legal question as a collaborative, it's got to be about collaboration and just challenging one another and I think practical experience trumps book smarts every day of the week. Yeah. And I think that's not industry specific either. No. I think that's right.
That's everywhere, like it's across everything and as soon as we start to realise that maybe the way we used to educate in the 1950s and 40s and 30s when I guess the need for what's the industrial side of the education system, like we don't need that anymore, like everyone's so, it's so fluid in terms of what jobs and things we can do that let's start teaching people to think on their feet and think critically and be a little bit more proactive about what they're doing rather than fucking sitting there listening, like I couldn't think of anything worse.
Yeah. And put them into the situations that they'll be in. Yeah. And that, you know, I was so ill equipped to have met with clients and do that sort of thing but for some volunteering I did at uni and I learnt more on that volunteering than I did in probably... Everyone says that. Everyone says they learn more from internships and things like that, well, yeah, of course you do because you're learning on the job, you're not learning by... The actual things that you'll be doing. Yeah. But I think there's, I don't know, it goes both
ways, right, because there's a part of the theory that you would have learned at uni that would have been important for you learning on the job. Hugely, yeah. Yeah, so you've got to kind of get it from both worlds. Yeah. I think also, particularly with a law degree, I'm really grateful for that because it's taught me, basically the job of a lawyer is to always think about the other side of an argument. Even if someone says the sky is blue and you try and think of why it's not and you just like, even if it's your argument, you've got to think what would they say on the other side.
So it makes you challenge everything and I think, I don't know that I'm the typical law student in that respect because I kind of extrapolated it into other areas of life. Yeah. But I'm glad that I did a law degree for that but I think it could have been taught a little bit differently. Yeah. Talk me through all the things you've done since finishing law because it's, you've done a bit. Yeah, I've done a bit. Yeah. I haven't followed the standard course. And I'm coming at this from not actually knowing a lot of these answers.
So I've had a few chats with people that know you and obviously I've talked to you about bits and pieces but I haven't actually, like, this is new to me as well so I'm going to ask questions not knowing the story which is kind of cool. It has been, if there's a straight line between A and B, I think I hit every other letter in the alphabet before I hit B. Good. Actually, I hit B and then I bounced back to Z and then I sort of messed that up again. Take me through that process. So I qualified law, did well, got a, I was quite lucky.
So the route for a lawyer is once you qualify or the year before you qualify you apply for clerkships and that's kind of your foot in the door at a big firm. Yeah. Everyone says you have to go to the big, you have to go to the big firm so you do that. I didn't get any interviews except for the one I spent the least time applying for and it was the most beautifully succinct cover letter, it was dot points, like, everyone was saying you're an idiot, why would you put bullet points in the resume and all this stuff.
Got the interview, got the job. So I went straight out of uni into a graduate year at a firm in the city and it was really good. It was valuable. The actual work itself was interesting but the lifestyle was just horrendous. I was working until, well, depending on, so I went through four different practice areas but some of the worst ones were back in the days when there wasn't 24 hour trains, I was missing the train home because I was working past one o'clock and there was just no real. What did you do, nap under your desk?
Well, I got a cab charge from the firm, yeah, sort of a $120 cab. Lovely. Paid for by them so that's good but sort of reached a point where I was actually washing dishes in my kitchen and I burst into tears and I was just exhausted and unhappy and at that moment I just went, there is so much more to life than living this sort of life so I quit and I had nothing. How long did it take for you to get to the point where you went, I'm a new grad to this sucks to done.
So from the start to the finish was just under two years, for the honeymoon period was probably six months, after that it started feeling stale but necessary and then it was at the point where I was, you know, just completely broke down that I realised that nothing can be worth that. I like that. Yeah. Do you think it took too long, do you think it didn't take long enough or do you think it was just the right time? I think it worked out well enough for me because I had enough on my resume that if I ever wanted to go back to it, which I eventually did, it was okay.
I think if I had left it any longer I would have probably spiralled down really quickly. Was it hard making that decision or was it an easy decision because you were self-aware enough to go, I'm done. Yeah, I felt like a completely different person after that night, I felt like it just hit me and I was like, there's no option, it's either you quit or you're depressed and you're stuck in this forever and you don't want to do that. So you quit not having anything lined up? Yeah. And then I got a job, actually no,
I stayed in law for a little while and then that was pre-breakdown, I felt like shit, got another job for three months and then broke down and just completely quit it and just had nothing to go to. So what did I do from there, I worked in some hospitality, went travelling, lived in New York for just under three months. Did you travel because you didn't know what you wanted to do? I think I travelled because it was almost a quarter life crisis, it was like if life is that bad then make it good and I just took it to the extreme.
I inherited some money from my grandparents because they passed away and I think that probably contributed a little bit to where I was at and I just thought they gave me this money because they want me to be happy and so I applied it to something that I thought would make me happy and I went overseas and just lived, didn't need an income, just sort of set myself up in a brownstone in Brooklyn and wandered around and got to know some people and just had a good time. That's cool. What did that period of your life teach you about the world and about yourself?
About the world, I think it's that you can, I don't know, I found like I didn't know anyone and I'd walk around and I'd smile and I'd just start talking to people. It took a while but eventually it was like you're not going to meet someone unless you talk to them and everyone has their own shit going on but overall I think everyone's good and you can have a chat to someone and generally they'll happily chat to you back and I think that was kind of like this really good turning point because I got over a lot of insecurities and I would highly recommend living by yourself for a while for anyone that's sort of under the age of amazing.
Especially overseas. Especially overseas. It's completely foreign. Yeah, I found myself driving a van for this guy that owned a cafe and I was driving his coffee cart around because he'd been there for more than two years so he couldn't have an Australian license that he could drive in New York and I was driving this van through Manhattan like one of the busiest cities in the world and almost crashed about five times but it was like having a good chat with him and it was just an amazing experience and so I think just overall it was
just like getting out of your comfort zone and I think probably realising that generally people are good and they're happy to help you if you need help and they're happy to chat to you if you want to have a chat and if they're not then they've got their own shit like it's not a personal... Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. It's usually a projection of what they've got going on now. Yeah. Not you. Not you. Yeah. What did it teach you about yourself? What did it teach me about me? That I'm capable of doing more than I think.
Oh, good. Yeah. Even if that's sort of talking to someone that I'm not as comfortable talking to. Yeah. I think it taught me that I'm... without wanting to sound big-headed, I think it taught me that I'm... This is your chance to pump it. No, no. Everyone listen to me. No, I think it taught me that overall I'm quite a likeable person and I don't say that because I want to pump myself up but I say that because I definitely didn't think that before then. Okay. I had quite low self-esteem before then I think. Yeah. I faked it but before then I think I was quite insecure.
Well, mate, since getting to know you I can definitely attest to that. Somewhat. Thank you. Most of the time. Yeah. I think it just sort of... it was a confidence boosting experience that taught me that... What did it teach me about me? I'm not that bad a guy that I can achieve things that I want to achieve. And just that like life's good. I just had a really good time and it wasn't like I was... I wasn't achieving that much and I didn't feel like I needed to... I'm interested into kind of like your mindset when you went over and decided to do that.
Did you put pressure on yourself to meet people and learn stuff or did you just kind of let it happen? No. I wanted to make the most out of it. Like I needed a bit of time to sort of unwind and just come to grips with the fact that I'd just quit a very stable career and just jump ship and I had a very supportive girlfriend at the time so that was good and I mean sort of she left before I did and then I was sort of exploring myself and that's when I kind of... that's when I was sort of throwing myself in and there's the gym.
And yeah I just sort of thought well you might not be here again, you certainly won't be here on these terms where nothing comes to you like you've got time, you've got some money in the bank and you don't need to work, just go out and explore and help. That's cool. What was one of the two best things you did while you were over there or while you were living in New York? Because I haven't been and it's on the list. It's my favourite city in the world, I'd highly recommend it. Every time I talk to Tommy T about New York it's like we've got to go, we've got to go.
Mate, I'll come. My favourite cafe is in New York, it's called Sweatshop, it's in Brooklyn, Spiney, spy guy from Melbourne I think, I think, actually I won't tell you how he got around the migration wars. I don't know, I had a party with my ex's best friend and we were just sitting there and it was just like the ultimate American party with just like all of these really cool people and it was just fun and it was literally just her and I sitting there just watching it happen and that was cool. And then we went
upstairs and we were on the roof of this building and we could look at Manhattan and it was just the whole of New York in front of us with a beer in hand and that was really cool. That was good. And probably the other one, I don't know, driving through Manhattan with a van and almost crashing the back, it was pretty fun. It was a pretty good experience looking back on that now and going, yeah I did that. Yeah, I don't know that many people have actually driven, it was literally from the east basically on the water to the west basically on the water, straight through all the chaos.
That's awesome. How long did you stay there for? Just under three months. Sounds very nice. Yeah. Awesome. Then what? Then what? Came home and that's when I started, so I came home and I started a business and it is, it's still going, it's Flinders Lane Coffee and it was through, so I was working in hospitality through this time because while I was studying and while I was at high school I had a lot of experience in hospitality and I did quite enjoy that. And I came back and caught up with Sam Keck who we both know and I think he's been on this podcast.
Shout out. He did actually yell at you 20 minutes, half an hour ago, to shout out but we'll just keep it rolling. So yeah, I had a chat with Sam and I had been working at Common Folk and their other cafe mentioned Omega for a while and I had just sort of been thinking I really wanted to do something like I had a bit of money left and I thought I just want to do something to see what I can do. And it was business, like I wanted to start a business and see what I
can do and I was thinking about what's important to me and at the time I was working as a barista and good coffee was important to me and I was thinking right well where, what's a problem that I've had that hasn't been solved yet? And I was sort of in the supermarket and had a look at some coffee pods and I went oh coffee pods yuck and I was like well I love coffee but coffee pods suck and sort of thought well why don't we try and get good coffee into coffee pods and that's where that one started.
So started that, started it with a mate of mine from high school, took it to some good places and yeah in between that just did a bit more travelling and then eventually found myself back in law. Awesome, talk to me about the kind of entrepreneurship side, is that something you've always had? Yeah, yeah, never, I think it's always been in the back of my mind, like I've never really explored it until I think I needed that tipping point of essentially having life as a lawyer and giving everything up and then I just thought you know
what I think I needed to work out that from a position where I felt like my life wasn't very enjoyable, that really taught me that life is far too short not to enjoy it and then I started exploring what inspires me and going back to sort of where I started you know taking things and making them better and that sort of thing that's what I wanted to do so I think yeah underneath it all I've had an entrepreneurial spark but I've never really started or lit it until I've flamed it. What are the kind of the failures that come to mind that helped you grow it and build it and keep creating it to be what you want to be?
Yeah I think if my business partner's listening to this with all due respect I don't think it ever did become what I wanted it to be and I think when we go back to our values at the start of this podcast, the environmental value is just something that's always been in the back of my mind and it was always for me kind of like a good idea and sensible money wise but it didn't actually fit with my values and I think that really stifled my sort of drive to make it big and you know I
wanted to make it maybe compostable and then it was too expensive and by that time when the compostable technology was around we were already in some supermarkets and we were getting squeezed for margins already, we didn't. I think probably one of the biggest failures is just, yeah I don't think any of it was a failure. I think of Clinton's Lane as like my own MBA like I don't think I could have ever, I don't think I could have learnt it if I had done the unity rate. I learnt the most basic things from like marketing
to supply chain and distribution networks to working out margins, I didn't even know what a margin was, I understood the concept but I didn't even know how to calculate it. Well it comes back to what you were talking about before right, like uni should be more practical. Yeah. Alright here's year two you're going to start a business and we're going to have a crack and see what happens. Yeah. Like that's probably not the worst way to do it. Yeah I think it would be great. I find myself some days and I always start with the
premise that I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about but I find myself some days giving people business advice and things like that because I asked for it because all we did was I had a crack and tried things and I've been asked to guest lecture and teach business courses at Chisholm and stuff like little things like that and I'm just like what has happened, how is this a thing? And I think this is all I teach, I teach, well you try things and if they work you keep doing them, if they don't work you try something else, there's business.
And you learn the ins and outs and how to do it all along the way and that's a cool way to put it, you don't personally behave like just like having a crack. Yeah and we're trying to sell it at the moment and it's at this point where my business partner and I don't have the time or really the drive to pursue it and I think the time one's a bit of a cop out and that's more the drive. Yeah it's a time thing, as soon as you get a time it's like well it's not a priority.
No exactly. Which is okay. Yeah and as we were mentioning Mr. Ferris, Tim Ferris but I think one of his guests, yeah shout out Timmy, if you're listening, I'll be happily on one of your shows if you want. Good. No he, I don't know if it was him or a guest of his but it was like if you're never too busy it's just a case of your priorities and it's just gotten to a point where I think. Can you repeat that just for everyone listening that says they're too busy sometimes? Yeah you're never too busy, it's just that it's not a priority.
And it is, life's all about priorities but I think the coffee business at this stage is probably not a priority and it's because neither of us, I can't talk for my business partner but certainly I'm not passionate about it anymore and I think it's got, it's at this kind of position in its life, I wish podcasts were visual so I could draw it but if you imagine a dot in the middle of your vision, it can go in a fork so it could go down or up and I think if we sell it now it could go up if someone has a passion for it but we just don't.
Yeah, so what is the, I guess the plan or the idea behind where Flinders Lane Coffee goes in the next 12 months or 18 months? Yeah so I think we, like my business partner's potentially going overseas so I think he wants it gone pretty quickly and I would probably rather focus my efforts on something else as well so he'll probably flub it off. Cool. Yeah. There you go. This is someone, doesn't dust it but at the same time you know I sort of think of it as it didn't go where I wanted it to go
but I learnt so much that I don't care, like I could, if I close it down today and I didn't get a cent from it I wouldn't really mind because it's a lot cheaper than an MBA and I learnt a lot from it and it hasn't killed my spark, I've had really, there's so many more ideas that I've got and I think it's helped me work out how to pursue them and also how to choose them more wisely because I think one of the key concerns I had with Flinders Lane was that coffee ponds are
so bad for the environment and it was always in the back of my mind so now I know if I come up with an idea it's got to explore it a bit. Tick those boxes. Yeah, see if it fits with my values. It's really important because a lot of people would miss the need to have it match up to their values for the sake of profit and success and things like that and I think if you've already been there and realised what it's like if it doesn't match up then that passion probably would never come back unless you had it ticking about.
What, I'm deciding whether to go back to you being back to a lawyer and what it's like or whether we talk about some of these ideas and where you want to go in the business world. We'll do both. Mate, we're going to do both, but which one do you want to do next? Let's go with law because I think I can cover that off quickly. I think I went back into law, so I started back at a firm in Melbourne. So actually I went, I worked at the council for a little while, it was a six month contract and I worked as a planning compliance officer.
Oh fun. And that means you go around, so people will call up the council, they complain about someone reaching their planning permit, you go around to that place and you tell them off for doing the wrong thing. And that really showed me what I was talking about earlier about some of the things I inherited from my mom is that I'm really empathetic and it always was from a place of negativity that job. And I'm sure it's for a lot of people and I really respect all the people I work with, they were great people and they were able to cope with it, but I think I'm just a little bit too much of an empathetic person for that job.
It was complaints, so people weren't happy and we would investigate those complaints and tell off the people that they were complaining about, so they weren't happy and then the person who complained was really happy with the outcome anyway. So no one really wins, right? No. Just lose, lose because everyone gets shitty at each other. It's a hard one, it's like being a parking inspector. Yeah, it is a lot like being a parking inspector. What was it like being in that position? So I think it's an interesting one, everyone kind of goes, I could never be a parking inspector.
What was it like being that guy? I think it taught me, so my mum always said, and this is the second time I'm bringing up something my mum said. Mate, keep going. Mum always said that, actually she didn't always say, she only said it recently, when her mum was really sick, it's that not everyone's going to like you and you can't take it personally. And I think that job really taught me that because I went in at the start and I was like, I'm going to try and please everyone, take a complaint, try and please them and try and solve it, try and please them and it just didn't work and sometimes you've just got to take it.
Did your mindset go from trying to please everyone to just, I'm just going to do the right thing? Yeah, and it wasn't always, I'm going to do my job because there were often situations where there were two or three or multiple options, but yeah, you're right, it came down to sort of what's the right thing to do here. Even if you make someone unhappy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good, that's important. So you left that job? So I left that job, so that was a six month contract. I got offered to stay on, but at the same time, my girlfriend of seven-ish years and I broke up and I was a little bit rattled by all of that.
Understandably so. Yeah, so also found a job in planning and environmental law and environment is kind of a passion of mine. I was up in town, so I applied for that, got that and then sort of didn't renew my contract to the council and then was moved up to Richmond, like packed up everything. So I went from a job in Mornington, a girlfriend in Mornington or Mount Martha, and a fairly steady life to a completely different life that's in a lot more fast paced environment, working in Melbourne, living in Richmond. And did that and really
enjoyed the legal side, but found myself in the exact same situation from when I was crying over some dishes and was just working pretty bad hours. It wasn't as bad as it used to be, but it was still long hours and felt like I didn't have time to have a life. Because I'd discovered that entrepreneurial spark and because I'd realised that there were things outside of work, I just couldn't sustain that. You kind of went full circle. Went full circle, but then stayed in law and found a job in Mornington, which I'm really enjoying in law and I think it should be able to work in that I can pursue some entrepreneurial pursuits as well.
That's cool. So what are you doing now? So I'm working as a commercial lawyer in a firm in Mornington and I've taken over from a guy who was there for 14 years, so just sort of working on a lot of his old files and trying to bring in my own. It kind of feels like there's, it's kind of like a rocket launch, you've got first and second stage. First stage is getting on top of everything that I've inherited and then second stage is kind of building my own brand down here and trying to be, my goal is to be the best lawyer on the Mornington Peninsula.
That's a big goal, but you know. I'll back you in. Thanks. So yeah, that's sort of where I'm aiming at and I just need to keep sort of focusing on that goal and working hard at that. What are the main things a commercial lawyer does? So varied. Yeah. Yeah, so down here, if you're a commercial lawyer, you also work in wheels and estates because there's a very old population down here and you've got to keep the books topped up financially. So I do a lot of wheels and estates, but the focus on commercial is anything from selling and buying a business to just basic contracts, commercial tendencies, renewals of leases.
I'm trying to explore a little bit more into kind of some entrepreneurial stuff. Cool. But yeah, basically and realistically commercial law is just contract law and it's just because you've got two commercial entities and it might have things to do with shares, which go to a constitution, but ultimately a constitution is just a contract between the shareholders. So it all comes down to basic contract law. And then if you get into a dispute, which I quite like, then you've got litigation and yeah, I don't mind sort of trying to find - I like litigation because
you have an opportunity before it reaches court to find a solution that isn't just - like you can try and find a solution that meets everyone's interest. That's what we were taught in sort of negotiation at law school and I think a lot of people forget that is that it doesn't have to be one or the other. Yeah, so you're trying to get the everybody winning result. Yeah. Which would be hard because everyone wants them to win. Yeah, and just emotions. Emotions are the worst thing, which is another good lesson I've learned from being a
lawyer is if you keep your emotions in check, you don't have to not be - not show emotion, but you've got to always sort of question where it's coming from and - That would help with personal awareness, right? Definitely. Yeah. You've got to deal with other stuff happening in your life a little bit more if you're a little bit more aware of why you feel a certain way and why certain things happen because you go well, at work I have to take emotion out of it and yeah, that's an interesting one. Yeah. And also it
means before you make a decision you stop and you think why and I guess from a kind of nerdy lawyer position it's like yeah, if I was advising myself on this, would I want me to do that or is that not the right sort of - Yeah, that's a pretty good skill to have to be able to do it. Yeah, I think the law degree has really helped me in a life perspective, yeah. Awesome. Talking about your ideas, what's next for the entrepreneurial spark? So I can't with so many ideas and I've got a girlfriend
now and she's amazing and she's very supportive and she mentioned to me, she said it would really shit me if you just kept on saying this would be a good idea, this would be a good idea, this would be a good idea because it would just be your dreamer but you always come up with how it would work as well. So it's like a saving grace, that's very nice. But I also sort of am conscious of from what I've learned in the past into keeping things in line with what I want to do, it can't just be a good idea but it's got to be something that I feel really passionate about.
And one of those things is actually very, very early stages but it's a concept whereby I will hopefully in the CBD at least start tackling the disposable coffee cups issue. We're in discussions, well I'm in discussions with a sustainability manager of a large property management team, well I don't know if he's a manager, he's on the sustainability board of a large company that owns and manages a lot of CBD high rises and they all have cafes in the bottom. So anyone out there listening please don't copy but I don't think there's any, there's no point hiding your ideas when they're eventually going to come out and I'm excited by it.
So the idea is that we will source reusable coffee cups. Talk to me about, because it's something, I guess it's an issue at the moment right, because we understand how much coffee people drink, how much coffee I drink, and what impact that has in terms of disposable coffee cups. Keep cups obviously become a fairly big thing, a fairly strong thing, awesome. But we, and then you hear like this eco cup, this is disposable but is it? I don't know if it is or not because you hear things from both sides. Well even, you know Sam's
done a really good job of getting compostable cups in there but in reality, sorry Sam, they need to be sent through a commercial composting facility that hits certain temperatures which aren't, you know you couldn't throw them into your compost hobby. So that's what we need to get to. Yeah I think so and I think, I hope we get there but I think in the meantime we've got to find another solution because we can't just sort of hope. But like you're taking action trying to find a solution. So the idea is essentially that we just replace
disposable cups with reusable ones that, I've got a keep cup and I had one in the city when I was working in a law firm and it was just, it would sit on my desk and it would get a bit mouldy. That's genuinely, like most of my coffees are sat sitting in a common folk but a lot of my coffees aren't, like they're ones that I bring to the office and bring to work and things like that and I am aware of it but to be honest, like convenience wise it's so hard for me to
get a keep cup because I know I'm not going to clean it enough, I know I'm not going, I'm going to lose it, I'm not going to have it with me all the time, like I struggle to keep my keys on me at all times so I am not going to be able to add a cup to the equation so yeah, we need a solution. So even, I was walking from the law firm up to a barrister and I was meeting with a barrister and I went to grab my keep cup and I thought well
I don't want a dirty cup on the table while I'm talking to a very respected person, I don't want a dirty cup in the way of us so I got a takeaway and I thought there's just something wrong with it, but how do we do it? So ultimately the goal is and I've got some contacts that can put me onto some other contacts but the goal is to just have enough disposable cups, sorry reusable cups in the cafes in Melbourne and then just bins scattered around for the disposable cups. We use recycling bins all the time.
So adding another bin. Just another bin and then the service, so the company that I'm setting up at the moment will actually offer the service of cleaning the cups, cafes will order them as if they're disposable cups and they'll be delivered on a daily or weekly basis. What are the main challenges you're going to face? Getting the bins. So I'll need Melbourne City Council on board but I think it's, from a PR perspective I think it's a pretty strong case and meeting the right people and I've got some friends who know who friends do. Most Liverpool city in the world just became a little bit more Liverpool.
Coffee capital of the world so it's a good example to set. Darraven City Council just banned single use plastic at their council sponsored events so that's one more step. But that's the thing, everyone looks at this and goes oh no it won't change but it's one thing at a time. Well that's the other thing, I think the biggest challenge is changing people's perceptions but I think the answer is, so the first idea I had was a membership option where people get to choose and be a member, they pay a nominal fee a week and they get to use a reusable cup and put it into the bins.
But now I'm just thinking it's all or nothing and it's just completely replacing them. So I think overall people are willing to do it but they need it to be as easy as possible. Well that's it, I think people want to do it but it needs to be something that's relatively easy to do. The problem is if it's something that costs people money or time then they're going to be less likely to do it. So the idea is that the cost of the reusable cups these days, if you get them bulk wholesaling from China, they're still BPA free and all that business.
That's actually quite close to the cost of a disposable cup at a cafe. So the idea is-- Cost won't change too much. Yeah and even, we've done the maths at 30 or 40% loss of cups and it still makes financial sense if we can get a high enough quality. And the idea is just you want to incentivise the cafes to stop them instead of disposable cups, they don't have to clean them, we do. And people can walk around and they can throw their reusable cups, trying to make them do a positive change without even realising essentially how they're doing one or by adding a few extra levels of difficulty.
And it's just a change of behaviour so you've just got to get people to understand the reason behind it and then that slight little change of behaviour makes you different. Yeah, it's a different bit. I don't know, I'm still having objections in my head to it. Surely it's 2018, how have we not figured out some sort of material that is compostable like everything else? Yeah. Like surely we're there. I don't know. Surely. I think it's the heat. So coffee hits. Ah true. In a lot of places. Brew coffee at 96 or something degrees. So if we hit something, yeah, gotcha.
And if it can compost in a-- Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I don't know, it's interesting. Anyway, I'm hoping to-- because it's very early stage, as you can probably tell by my inability to explain it. No, I like it. It's a great idea. I know, like you're feeling a void, you're feeling a hole, solving a problem. Yeah. And give it a try. But what it looks like in six months is probably going to be completely different to how you explain it now. Yeah. You'll adapt and you'll grow and you'll figure it out. Yeah. It's a good idea.
I really like it. Yeah. So we'll see. I think that's the biggest thing, the biggest difference between someone who's like just a bit floaty and ideas-oriented and they're just in their head and they're just sort of a dreamer. The biggest difference between a dreamer and someone who's successful is just taking that first step. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the biggest thing is just if you're able to take action, then you figure all that other stuff out. Yeah. Just go. And if it means something to you and it's fulfilling, then you're going to put in the work and put in the time.
Yeah. The biggest difference between stuff like that and the times of working for the man, so to speak, how big a change is that to your mindset and how likely you are to actually love your work? What are the changes to your mindset that you see between when you used to work in the big law firm to now following things you're actually passionate about? Yeah. I think coming from a place of motivation instead of obligation and that time flies when you're doing something that you want to do. You just lose track and you're just doing it and you're doing it because you want to do it.
Yeah. You never feel like you have to. Yeah. It's a good feeling when you're in that position too, because I'm lucky enough to be in that position daily. Every minute of every day, even the hard stuff, I love it and I look forward to, I can't wait to work for the work tomorrow. Yeah. It's going to be the same on Saturday. It's going to be the same on Sunday. When you want to do the stuff, you want to do it because you're either helping people or building something bigger than yourself or making a difference like you are, it's so easy to come to work.
Yeah. Yeah. It's so easy to jump out of bed in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. I don't know what the numbers are in Australia, but I know the U.S., it's about 70% of people don't feel fulfilled by their jobs, which for me, that's a travesty. It's good. I love talking to people like you that actually genuinely like what they're doing. Yeah. It's cool. You too. Where do you get the drive and vision from? Have an idea and execute on it and put in the work. Yeah. I don't know. I think drive is just that life's too short.
Yeah. It's the longest thing you'll ever do, mate. It's not true. But as in, as far as I know, I'm not particularly religious and as far as I know, I'm on this planet once. I completely agree with that sentiment. Yeah. And I just think if you think about what's the worst thing that can happen if you try something, very rarely is it as bad as what your fear is telling you. And people always have a chance, unless it's going to cripple you or kill you, then you'll always have a chance of making it right or giving something else a go.
So I just think you've got to give it a go. It's really easy for people to get stuck in fears of, "Oh, this could happen. This could happen. This could happen." But one of my favorite kind of sayings is that the past and future are literally stories we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better or worse. Yeah. But the only difference between the two is one's fixed and one's fluid. So every decision we make in the present now will affect what happens in the future. Yeah. And I think then you kind of go, "Well, shit, I'm completely in control of where I'm headed."
Yeah. And everyone is completely in control of where they're headed. It's your choice, what you want to do. Yeah. Whatever action you take will get you there. Yeah. And you wanting to make the world a better place by decreasing some of the coffee cup pollution, that's fucking awesome. Yeah. It's happening. Yeah. Good for me. I'm excited. Yeah. I like it. I'm obsessed with coffee. Yeah. And I really like the environment. Yeah. Well, you've made putting the things you love into and finding things you're passionate about and making things happen. Yeah. That's good. You've obviously someone that's gone through kind of the chronological story of the last 10, 15 years.
Yeah. You've uprooted yourself and moved places to places and changed a lot of things. How does that relate to, I guess, your pursuit of happiness and your pursuit of being fulfilled and content? Yeah. What are the things that it's taught you along the way? Because a lot of people probably listening to this or a lot of people who are listening to this know people that just aren't happy. Yeah. How has that contributed to where you are now? Yeah. I think or if we think about chronologically, if we think about today, I think I'm still in
a little bit of a state of flux in that three months ago, I was in Richmond and working in a big city law firm and now I'm in Mornington and pursuing another idea and quite excited by it. I'm actually living with mom and dad and applying for a new place tonight and all of this stuff. So it's all up in the air, but I think overall, life's good and there's nothing not to be happy about. I think when I went through the breakup, I was pretty down. I probably had gone to a doctor, I might've been prescribed some meds, but I got through it.
It's a whole other scary thing. Yeah. We'll talk about that. We can talk about that. But it was obviously a huge change. I had settled in, I've been living in that house for years with my ex, we've been setting up a life together and then that all stopped and then I literally packed up everything and moved to what's essentially another city, living in Melbourne and working in Melbourne. So that was all a bit dysfunctional, but I think overall, while I might've been depressed in the way that someone might've said you need some medication, I don't
think I ever lost sight of the fact that life is good and it might be a speed bump, but no matter where you are, there's always opportunity and you can always choose which way you're going to go. Until you're in the position that you can't, life is good. Yeah. That eternal optimism is really important. Because then no matter how hard things get and how fucked up things get, you always know that it could get better. And that's something that people you talk to who are struggling with depression and things like that, they genuinely can't either remember a time that they were happy or look forward to a time when they might be happy in the future.
And I've talked about this multiple times on podcasts, but the advice that I've had from people close to me that have been through depression and worked through it has been filling your memory bank with happy memories and finding the things that you like doing and doing them and just adding to that and adding to that and adding to that and I'm more than happy to be repeating myself for three podcasts in a row on this because it's so important to just find shit that you love doing and do it. And then you can build that bank of happy memories back up if you are in that space.
Yeah. And it's a hard space to live in. Yeah. I've got a question from Jack Jeffery, "How do you deal with being drop dead gorgeous all the time?" Well, it's a lie. It must be hard. Coming from Jack Jeffery, the handsome man himself. Shout out to Jack Jeffery, my Jacky boy. First of all, I'll just say Jack actually gave me my favorite quote and I'll quickly give that and then I'll start being self-serving and start talking about my drop dead sexiness. So, Jack gave me a quote, he lent me the book from the thank you founder.
I can't remember the name of the book. For sure. No? It's interesting. And he put in the margin of one of the pages, I think it was his favorite page, he put in a quote and it is, "No doubt the universe is unfolding as it should." Good. And I read it and I'm like, "Shit, that really talks to me." And it's not that it talks to me because I think that the universe is unfolding and I've got no control over it, but it talks to me because I think if you, regardless of where you're at, the universe, like it's like, you know, universe conspiring kind of quotes.
Regardless of where you're at, if you set your mind to something the universe will unfold as it should. I like that a lot. If you're on the wrong path, I believe that barriers will be presenting themselves and if it's too hard, then it'll go away and you'll find something that's there. Yeah. That's the deepest answer that's ever come from why you're so good looking. And then back to Jack's question, I actually think I probably have, if he thinks that, I don't. Thank you, Jack. I appreciate it. I hope your tie is up. No, I think
it's interesting because I did, used to be a bit overweight and not very popular and I think people, if people think I'm attractive, then I'm very flattered, but I think, yeah, overall my, my own self-image, I don't think I'm, I don't have, I don't think either way. I don't think I'm unattractive, but I don't think I'm attractive. I just think I'm me. Play on. Um, and yeah, it's nice to hear that he thinks I'm a sexy man, but. Good. All right. I've got a bunch of, uh, short, sharp questions for you to answer to finish up.
Go nuts with as long or as short as you want to answer them. Okay. Have you had a defining moment? Yeah. All right. Yeah. I reckon it was crying. Yeah. Crying, washing the dishes at home. Yeah. Will you remember it and see, I could put myself back there right now if I close my eyes. I have to ask you, you told me about impaling yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I got away with that. Nope. I was, um, playing footy at school and there just happened to be a star picket behind the goalposts. I was, um, protecting the cricket pitches, the turf cricket pitches and yeah, I was running with the flight of the ball.
Probably the only time. Courageous. Only time I've been courageous. Like, what are you having to eat at lunch time? Lunch break. Um, yeah, it was lunch time in high school wearing the shirt and the shorts with the shirt tucked in and socks pulled up and um, yeah, just sort of put my head over my shoulder and ran and jumped up and as soon as I was sort of on the way down, there's a star picket in my chest and gravity pulled me down. So I've got a nine inch scar on my chest. Geez. Full nipple reconstruction.
Hey, treat yourself. Not very cute nails or a full nipple reconstruction, but very useful for us cause it doesn't really do anything. Put that on your resume. Yeah. That should be on your LinkedIn profile. Nipple reconstruction. Yeah. What was that like? That's um, that's pretty heavy. Yeah. What was that like for you and your family and uh, I, I really remember mum when she walked in. So interestingly and no criticism, no judgment, but for some reason the school nurse decided it was a good idea to put me in her car and drive me to the local doctor.
Um, and it actually worked out really fortuitously because the local doctor knew a plastic surgeon who was able to stitch me up really well. So worked out well, wasn't the best decision, but she was in a very, um, high stress situation. Probably not something that a school nurse would have to deal with too. No, exactly. And you know, people deal with stress. Yeah. It would have been a very, very uncomfortable and hard decision for her to be in. So no hard feelings there, but ideally an ambulance might be better called next time if that ever comes up again.
School nurses out there. Um, but I remember I was sitting on this, like this cold, I think possibly stainless steel operating table in the local doctor and this old guy walks up and he's got his shaking hands. He's like, I think I can do it. I was like, no, I don't think you can. Wow. Um, 16, 15 and mum walked in and I remember her looking at me and I've never seen her look so sad and I was just like, I didn't say something and I just said to her, it's all good. It's fine. Don't worry about it.
And I just like, I just wanted to go out and I wanted to be okay. Like I was more worried about her than I was about me. Um, it was shit. People who tell you shock sets in, they might be telling the truth for them, but it didn't happen with me. Um, I was in a lot of pain. It felt like I had my chest sort of dragged if I was being dragged behind a truck on a gravel road. That's what it felt like. It doesn't sound pleasant. Yeah, it really hurt. One little bit. Yeah. Um, but you know, it was, it was interesting.
I sort of, I hated it for a couple of years. I had a scar and I thought it was the most obscene, ugly, you know, just made my body look awful. And then I just thought, well, it's interesting, it's different and I've got it. It's a fucking awesome story. It's an elite story. It's uh, yeah. What was the, was there like a chunk of rehab and stuff you had to do or was it just literally letting those screens spin? Not really. Yeah. So it was, um, it was stitched up. I can't remember how many stitches, but it was like a lot.
Yeah. I thought it was 50 and mum was like, it was a lot more than 50. I was like, wow. Well, you just got to pick it like a number and just stick with it because it's a great, to be honest, I had 376 stitches. Well, I remember the doctor saying something about, well, I thought it was 50 layers, 50 stitches in four layers. So I used to say 200 stitches and then mum was like, I don't think it was 200, but it was definitely layers. Mate, I think you've earned the right to kind of just pick a number and go with it.
Whatever it is. Um, but yeah, the rehab, it was just literally, I had a big bandage on my chair, like a straight bandage over the stitches and they were all dissolvable except for the ones on my nipple. So I got them cut out and like overall my range of movement was a little bit tight for a while, but the scar tissue stretched and yeah, it's all fine. Mate, life's good. Playland. Good. Let's start lining up a little bit. What's your favorite fun fact? Favorite fun fact? I really like, I guess it's a fun fact. I like the guy, what's his name?
Neil deGrasse Tyson. What a man. And he says everything, like every single cell in your body is like originated from the big bang. So it's like we're all, yeah. We're all just startups. Yeah. Have you read his new book? No. It's amazing. It's uh, what is it? Astrophysics for people in a hurry. It's elite. Yeah. It's um, it's super cool. Very deep and very things along those lines, but it's good. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. It's a great fun fact. Yeah. What advice would you give a 15 year old self? Ooh, uh, 15 year old Dan.
You're almost there with the weight loss. Good job. Keep it up. I think, yeah, probably stop trying to impress everyone. Stop trying to please everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah. I've been doing that early on and I've given that up and I think I've seen a lot more developments and things. I like that. If money was an issue and you knew you couldn't fail, what would you do with your life? This should be what I'm doing. Really. Uh, what would I do? I actually, I think I would open my own law practice and I would probably do it three days a week.
Nice. And I'd do it sort of from a community or social justice perspective and on the other four days a week I'd pursue my own kind of endeavors. I think I'll never scratch that entrepreneurial itch and I'll, like some people have the share market. I think I just have like throw money at a business and see what happens and hopefully develop it to a point where like I'm passionate enough about it that it takes off. I can't help but feel that law practice is going to be a thing soon-ish. Maybe. Yeah. Good. If you could be remembered in one sentence, what would it be?
Like Dan was something? Mate, it's all yours. I don't know, I think I want to, I think it can go down, go back to where we started and I want to... Make things better. Yeah, make things better. But I want, you know, if people know me then I want their life to be better. Good. Alright. And not, you know, in a cocky way. Make things with people better. Yeah. Yeah, good. Yeah. What is success to you? I think being happy with what you do. I think five days a week for most people as work, if you're not happy in that then I don't think you can call yourself successful.
Yeah. I think family, having a strong family is something that you should strive for. I'm amazingly proud of my dad to be able to keep the family that we've got together despite how hard he worked. But I think ultimately success is just being happy with what you're doing every day. Good. I like that a lot. What are you most proud of? What am I most proud of? This is always a hard one to answer. Everyone struggles with this one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm proud of, I get really proud when good wins, like I'm proud of the world overall because things like...
That's a good answer. That's a really good answer. When gay marriage passed I was proud and like I was really excited for that and just things like that. I think I'm, overall I'm proud of humanity in its general form. It's a very altruistic answer. I like that a lot. That's good. It's really easy to focus on all the negative shit that happens with humanity, but I think accumulatively we're doing a pretty good job. Yeah. I think overall we're good. There's just some very... So this is a shout out to the seven billion humans on earth. Yep.
Great work. Keep it up. Listen to this podcast. Keep ticking boxes. On the flip side of that, what are you most ashamed of? That's a good question. Appreciate it. Yeah. I'm most proud of my good questions. All right. What's yours? For most ashamed of? Yeah. Oh wow. You can't ask that sort of hard question without answering it yourself. See the funny thing is most of these questions I've properly thought about and probably unanswered at some point because I get these thrown back at me every now and again. That's one I haven't answered about me. What am I most ashamed of?
I don't think it's too curly not to be able to answer yourself. I'm most ashamed of times where I didn't treat someone with the respect they deserved. So when I didn't listen to someone when I should have, when I wasn't present with someone when I should have, when I didn't live true to my values, which is I won't bug you with all my values now, but one of them is connection and it's the ability to stop and listen and things like that. I'm most proud of some of the times where I've actually sat down or
actually spent the time listening to someone when I could have just blown it off and kept talking and found and being that person where someone can talk to when they haven't necessarily had someone. On the flip side of that, I'm ashamed of the times where I wasn't that person or I wasn't able to do it because I was entrenched in something that I was thinking about that was maybe serving me but wasn't serving other people. So what's yours? I think that's a brilliant answer, how do I follow up from that? Look I think the reason
that answer is so good is because people are ashamed of things that don't match up with their values and that don't match up with who they want to be as a person but they've done it. So I think, yeah, situations where I've done something where it doesn't match up with who I want to be, one actually sticks in my mind when I was with another ex-girlfriend and sorry to my current one for bringing up all the exes, but it brings up, Mum went to my Grandma's funeral in Tasmania and when she came home I just
hadn't even thought of the fact that she would be really down and I was sitting there with the current girlfriend at the time and we were sort of laughing and joking and I hadn't even offered to sort of go to Tasmania and be at the funeral because at the time, like the day didn't line up but it still would have hurt Mum that I couldn't go to that and then I was sort of there and just sort of joking around and it really hurt me to think that I'd hurt Mum and I was really ashamed of that.
When you've just, yeah, because you just forget, right, but you realise how much impact that has on someone. Yeah and I think I was too caught up in my own world to not appreciate that there was something really important for someone else and I think being quite an empathetic person hurt Mum's hurt or someone else's hurt really hurt me. In the same way, my most recent ex-girlfriend, I think her and I, that was the first proper relationship I'd been in and I think there were a lot of times when I let her down and it
just, I think it probably hurt me as much as it hurt her, but yeah, ultimately all it is is just, and even, you know, if I wake up and go to work and don't put in all the effort, I'm a bit ashamed of that, like it's just - Yeah, it accumulates. Yeah, but it's just, it's always something that, and I don't want to sound like I'm ashamed of a lot of things I do, like I think overall I'm an alright guy and I'm pretty happy with where my life's going, but like it's just when your
values don't, like your actions don't line up with your values and so I think you can try and combat that by focusing on, you know, what's important to you and trying to live that. It's awareness and knowing what your values are so you can keep working towards it. Yeah. For those of you guys listening that haven't actually written down your values, sit there for half an hour and think about what do I value, why do I value it, put it down on paper, and it's really easy because then when you're not sure about where you're going or what you're doing, come back to those.
Next one, who is someone you know, who you look up to, who's doing great things? Probably quite a few. Just pick one. Well, if I'm completely honest, you, Lockie. Stop it. No, honestly, I think, you know, I've sort of haven't really got to know you that well but I think we've done each other well enough. Yet. And I'm like, I'm inspired by how you just, you actually live what, you know, you read all of these books. For everyone listening, there are dozens of books on Lockie's wall and you don't just read them, you put them into practice so that's really, it impresses me.
I appreciate that. And what you're doing with Virtus is really, you know, it's inspiring. First session on Monday? I know, it was great. That was a leak. I felt like I was going to vomit, in a good way. For those listening, vomiting after a session is not good. That's not what we want. No. Feeling like it. You got the job done though. Yeah, I do. Who else? Can you tell someone else? I've got a mate, James, who has just done all of this stuff and I don't know financially how he's doing. Like, I don't know if he's actually made it.
I think he might have, like he's doing well, but he's just got this dogged determination to do something and try it and if it doesn't work, he moves on to the next one and do it. And like he's worked in a startup that like seemed like it was heading along the Snapchat route and then just completely blew up and he was like, all right, cool. I'm moving to Sweden with my girlfriend and then he's got this advertising agency and now he's working for the Formula 1 and he's doing all of it. And all it is is just like this overwhelming positivity that like, I can do this.
Things are working out. And it's like, sometimes it's almost perceived as arrogance, but if you look underneath it, it's just like, he's just trusting it. Like he's doing it. That's good. Yeah. I think him. Good. If you could have, if you could invite three people to dinner, dead or alive, who would they be and why? This could be anyone. All right, I think I'll just try and think of them quickly because I think the more you think. Yeah. The first people that come in your head. Yeah. All right. Uh, I think I want to say Elon Musk, but I feel like that's a callback cause he's obviously someone.
He comes up a bit and I would love to have him at dinner. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that answer. Why? I just think the way that he thinks must be different and I want to know, I'd love to have just a proper sit down conversation with him because I think for him to have achieved what he's achieved and he takes things that everyone else has dismissed. Yeah. So his mission for SpaceX is to go to Mars. Yeah. Another private company has come up with that before, as far as I know, and he's doing it like he's just totally living it out.
In his last round of interviews, I was watching a bunch of them cause like obviously he just kind of like comes up for air and does like five interviews and then see you in six months. One of the reporters asked him, why do you do this? Why are you doing these things? And his answer, and it's like the most Elon Musk answer ever, was to be useful. How fucked up is that? He's literally like changing the way we look at three industries, four industries, if you count the boring company and he's changing the whole way
four industries work and are looked at and the way people will be able to consume these things and experience these things and his answer was to be useful. It's fucked up. Yeah, it is. It messes with my brain. And that's why I'd love to just chat with him because I think his mind doesn't work the way I ask it. What question would you ask him? What's your first question? What would you ask him? I don't think I'd start with, well, I think I'd start with something simple to try and build up the rapport to be honest.
I think I'd just be like, what's going on, have a chat. Try and like break down his back because I'm sure he would get it so much, but I just want to, like, I think I'd just want to have a conversation with him. I don't think I'd want to know anything from him, but I'd want to know about him. Yeah. And just let him talk and see what happens. Yeah. That'd be the big thing. Just letting him talk. Yeah. Number two. Two and three. I think my AUPAR, so my Dutch grandpa, just because there's a lot of unanswered questions.
I never really got a chance to get to know him and I just feel like he had more to his life than he ever let on. Like I reckon he had a few interesting stories and he was just like an interesting man. Yeah. Um, and I think it's more also to do with the fact that just didn't have that opportunity to really get to know him the way that I did probably with every other grandparent. So I think that'd be good. Okay. Uh, number three. God. I reckon Henry Ford could, yeah, because I think he obviously had a huge influence on the world.
Crazy. But also I just love that like he did what he did and he is attributed the quote, whatever the mind can, whatever the mind can conceive and achieve or something like that. My favorite quote from Henry Ford and have you read Think and Grow Rich, Napoleon Hill? That's one where he just like pumps up Henry Ford for the whole book. Yeah. But my favorite quote is, if I ask people what they want, they would have asked for faster horses. Yeah. Like that, that epitomizes him and I think he probably probably, I don't know, it was a while ago now, but he's probably underrated in terms of the general population.
So how big of an impact he actually made. Yeah. Because I don't know, I really believe that if you, I think if you want something, you won't necessarily get it. But if you want it and you believe that you can get it, you can make a way to make it happen. Definitely. Yeah. No doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Exactly. Mate, thank you very much for coming on. Thanks, Lachie. You got any more to add? Uh, no, I'm a little bit concerned. I brought up several ex-girlfriends. I hope people don't think I'm a slut.
I'm good. Hey, you do you right. Love your work. Thanks for coming. Thanks, Lachie. You're welcome. Thanks, Lachie.
