S1E34 · Rick Mirabella: Loving every moment

Hey team, welcome to the Virtus.Performance podcast. This is week 34. Today I sat down with the great man Rick Mirabella and we talked about all things business, all things life. We talked about creating a culture and creating an environment where you want to be every day and allowing yourself to attract the sort of people that make us smile and that help us chase our passion every day. Rick runs Runners which is a running studio of sorts but it's the first of its kind having the group training setting with 30 treadmills in front of him and a bunch of really cool people as well as strength and conditioning and all those kind of things.

This was thoroughly enjoyable. It was a great chat. He's a great great man. I really hope you enjoy it. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day. I believe everyone especially normal people have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests. Rick Mirabella, welcome to the podcast. G'day Lockie, thanks for having me mate and g'day to all the Virtus listeners out there. It's fantastic to be here. And hopefully a few of the Runners listeners after today will be plugging this one.

First question for you, what gets you out of bed in the morning? Gets me out of bed at quarter past four every morning. This is good for me. It wouldn't be the same as you mate, I would imagine. No, I'm a little late on. No, no, just definitely I love what I do. I've loved what I've done for 11 years and a bit over mate. Just every single day. The ability to work with people which is one of my main passions and to I guess running physiology and just like impart a little bit of my knowledge but also I feed off of those 30 people waiting for me at 5am.

So it's an addictive thing, big fella. Bloody earth it is. Bloody earth it is. Is it just the group time that gets you out of bed at 4.15 or because that's a fair thing to do every day. Get up at that time. I certainly don't do it easily as my fiancé show would attest to it. There's a lot of snooze buttons. Been there, daily. Yeah, it's hard. Mate, to be honest, five till seven is just cranking with us and it always has so I've had it, it's a no brainer for me to be there and I genuinely love being there at that time of day.

As hard as it is for the first few minutes. Yeah, well that's the thing I've kind of identified. I never get to 7am and I'm shitty because I start at 6, so I'm up at 5. But once I get to 6.10 I'm all good and you see all the smiling faces or half smiling, half asleep and they give you the energy to get up. It definitely makes our job a lot easier and I don't think any of us, if we weren't that way inclined, would do it for as long as any of us have done it before.

So look, I love every single person I work with as do you. So we're pretty lucky. I don't think many people go into work and genuinely love everyone so I, because it's our environment, we create the environment so we can, without knowing it, I guess we've manipulated who we work with because they came to us, don't they? We don't go looking. So we're very lucky and I certainly wouldn't change it for the world. Yeah, by 7am I'm really up and about and ready to launch. What does a normal day look like for you? You're obviously not straight through till 9am?

No, certainly not mate. Since we've moved into HQ, the newest, the big building, at 7 I usually get half an hour of, if I'm not obviously a little bit of talking, a little bit of recessing, I've already knocked out two runner's sessions by then. Awesome. Or S&C sessions, it depends on the day. And then 7 or 7.30 I'll do a little bit of planning, book work, whatever I need to do, programming, a lot of remote programming. So that's only half an hour, then I'll roll in a couple of PTs and then there's usually the mid-morning stuff and then by midday I'm pretty much done for coaching.

Awesome. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday I'll go back and do it all again for a couple of hours at night and roll through on a Wednesday and Thursday some footy clubs as well. So that's my average day, like I'm certainly, I don't do as many hours as some of my tradie mates and my fiance works heavily in the headquarters as well. She probably does more hours than me. There's nothing sure about that mate, she's the brains behind it all. I'm just at the front of it. So I definitely am lucky enough to have a nap and try to get a session done and just get the planning done.

I think people like me, I knew if we get the planning done when we can, I think it makes 5am, you can be there and you can be yourself. You can roll in it and be yourself and show the personality that, to be honest, 90% of them are probably there for. Obviously the physiology and the structure is so important. If it wasn't enjoyable, people wouldn't keep coming. We have to plan that so everyone keeps progressing and we keep planning, then we can be ourselves. We can relax and we can be a little bit politically incorrect and just have fun with it because we know that everything's taking care of itself.

Exactly, I love that. Talk to me about runners and the idea behind it and how to get started because it's a little different to, it's probably one in its own. Yeah, definitely one in its own when it first started. Yeah, so footy background and endurance running as well. But yeah, I started strength and conditioning model in group stuff but more PT and running groups. And then at the start of '07 I was thinking, "This is just too hard." Because I loved, as everyone does, you love working with all kinds of athletes. I love the general population runners that wanted to do things that they never possibly thought possible.

And on a track it was just too hard. So to succinct it really quickly, it's a quality workout on a track session, indoors on treadmill. We run on a system and it's been pretty similar for a long time. You obviously tweak it and stuff falls by the wayside, but we try to get the quality programs in. So the VO2 power quality, the lactate threshold stuff, fartlek, hills and speed endurance. So we'll tick those in a month and then the volume running. So if I've got runners or triathletes, they will do their volume outside on a structured program obviously from us.

But the reason it works, so I brought it indoors at the start of '07 is because of that reason. So if I've got 15 guys and girls at Ballon Park, athletics track, and obviously you might have lucky training for a VFL season, you might have a couple of guys training for a sub-three marathon, you might have a couple of ladies training for a real fast 10, and you might have a fella that wants to drop 20 kilos and might be training for mental health. It's really hard to do the prescribed session for many reasons, the weather.

But more importantly, you don't want people feeling insecure about, you don't want people going, "Oh geez, Locky's killing me. He's doing 72 second laps." And my 90%, quote unquote, is, I shouldn't have done the fingers. I just did the fingers. I just did the quote unquote. This is audio, mate. We're not a video yet. Where's the video? No, no. My 90%, quote unquote, is going around in two minute laps. I just hated that. I didn't want that. More to the point, as we all know, number one rule in performance is continuity. And I feel like outdoors, with what we needed, the continuity just wasn't there.

So yeah, I brought it indoors. I started renting space at a commercial gym. The systems was the same. They've certainly been tweaked in 11 years. I've improved a lot. I would hope. I hope I've better than last week. But that's just why it's worked. So the continuity of it all enables these guys, and some are at the real pointy end, where every single week we get a couple that are really nervous, and haven't ran much before, and are intimidated by big groups of 25 and 30. Once they come once, they very rarely leave. And it's because, I believe, it's the structure and the environment.

So real quickly, the percentage ratings, I guess, that's the biggest questions. Because we have got some intros out. They're about to launch online with an app we're doing. But it's really simple. So if Locky's running 70%, that's what we call marathon pace, but it's sustained effort. So it's still below aerobic threshold. 80% is half marathon. And I guess you'd call that tempo running, or aerobic threshold. 85 to 90 is getting up to 10 to 5K race pace. And we use, for people who've never run before, that 90%, you really can't talk too much. 95%, we call 1,500 pace.

But that's a pace that you're really working. So you can do it for shorter if it's real, even above VO2 pace. And then 100% or maximal and above is like you're running an 800 meter race. And as you know, with your background, that's agony. But we might only do it for 40 to a minute or 70 seconds. So most of it's time-based. So it just works. And jeez, I wasn't expecting a lot. I started this all those years ago. I wasn't expecting to do what it's done now, that's for sure. Well, you've filled in a little niche in an area of the industry that, like I said, is done one way and it's done on tracks.

And you brought it indoors, which is super cool. And I haven't been down, and I apologize for that because I've been meaning to for like fucking three years. I'm the same, mate. Yeah, there you go. It's top notch, by the way. First time it's beautiful here. Stop it. But like seeing, you know, you can have, I love the idea of having five people that are all at different levels, all doing their own thing next to each other. And you stay next to that person the whole session. And regardless of whether you're working at, one person's working at 15Ks an hour or 13, they're going to be running together with each other, against each other.

And it's a pretty special environment that you've created. And it's cool to share a few clients between the two gyms because we tick off both boxes. We certainly, and we do that. For the listeners, we do share a few, which is awesome. And I love it. I do love that because my, yeah, I love the fact that they can improve at their own rate. And we're always big, as you are, on the do the work, but be patient. And patience is so, so bloody important in physiology and everything. Like we can't afford to rush these things and especially the aerobic metabolism.

It's going to take two or three years for these guys to even think about being near their peak. So it's real cool to see them change. And when we flip the switch that finally says, okay, listen, I don't have to push as hard as what I think I should, because should and what I should be doing and what I want to be doing is a lot different. I've got to hold back. I hope Pulsi's listening to that, to that little bit. Pulsi, rewind, play again, rewind, play again. Pulsi's one, you can have that and repeat. Maybe put that as your snooze alarm, Pulsi.

Pulsi's a good example of, during some of his preparations before, like he's broken a couple of times, but he's done two iron men. We've just had him way below 5K pace and it's worked. And it does change. I promise you ladies and gentlemen, it will change your physiology if you do it smart. You don't have to always go out at what we call supramaximal and stuff. And Lockie can, the best thing about it is if say Lockie's had a big week on the track and he might have done a 25K easy yesterday and now he's got a backup on a Monday.

I've said, Lock, you're really tempo paced today and Lockie can talk a bit of shit and talk about the weekend and help another fella out. Well, while Lockie's getting the workout that he needs, but maybe the fella next to him, it's his quality of the week. It's his session to really go to the well. So I want that fella next to him to really go balls to the wall. And that's where it's exciting because you can manipulate everyone in the room and you don't have to... And it creates an incredibly supportive culture and environment because you've got the guys that are doing the tempo stuff that can egg on the guys that are, like I said, balls to the wall.

It's exciting. Yeah, it's pretty amazing, I guess, environment and culture you created. When you first started it, did you set out to create what you've done now? Not on purpose. My two passions are certainly endurance running and Aussie rules footy. And I've always been in both of those environments. So I guess I tried to look with running and some of my absolute idols in the coaching world, we can get to that later, but some of them are really good. Some of them probably aren't as good as Articulating. And that footy, I believe if it's a footy, I was a battler, but the football has probably made me the coach I am, to be honest.

The running physiology is what I'm probably passionate about. But the footy culture is just the greatest thing on earth. That ability to get all those people around. I think you know that more than anyone. So that probably married in '07, '08. And then Chell was a founding member at the start of '07. So Chell's my fiance. And she, before even we got together, she certainly was involved in a couple of big companies and probably saw the potential of it way before me. I'm certainly not creative. I'm really struggling. You say you're not creative, but you've created this thing.

Yeah, this is one of my very few talents. I stick to what I'm good at. I certainly do. I'm good at that. I know what I'm not good at either. So Chell's done a lot of that, the building, because as you would know, mate, you go through a lot of ways trying to branch. We knew we had something special. We knew we had the first in the world. New York did one similar in 2014 and then Boston followed and a couple others followed. But to branch it out was tough. Initially, we thought we wanted to

franchise it, but we spent three years on a-- now, I knew the industry wasn't great, but those three years-- Just reminded you how not great it was. That's why we did a runner's course that was accredited by Fitness Australia. That course was a lot of labor and money for us, but that was OK. But we trained 25 guys, and it just wasn't-- we've got a couple still going well, and they're great people. But the other 23, just to remind you about the industry, but I don't think we're here to talk negatives, but that's part of the journey.

Yeah, and it's understanding that that part of the industry is not the whole industry, because there's a lot of positives in what we do. But that part of the industry where it's really low-level entry, and people just do it because, oh, yeah, that's something to do, or that sounds cool, or mum thinks I should do it, or whatever. But the people that are in the industry three, four, five-plus years are the ones that actually live and breathe it and love it, and they're there for the right reasons. Yeah, and that's exactly right. And that's why we-- places, I think, like ours and yours-- and there's a few other really good joints around.

I think it's getting better. I think it's almost done a-- all that stuff was 2013, '14. I honestly think it's getting a lot better since then, and that's why-- the more that-- I think people are smart, too, in 2017. They look for coaches-- They're getting there. And they're able to find coaches that actually understand them, or want to understand and know them as a person, rather than a number, which is-- Certainly not a number, and certainly not-- what you see a lot of these guys trying to make a quick buck and that kind of stuff, which I think people see right through that as a rule these days.

Yeah, and if they don't at the start, they do pretty quickly once they get started. I can't see it lasting more than six months. But yeah, so that course was our first point of call, which took three years. We did Mirabella Mountain, which was a fun run at Mount Buller, which took-- Awesome. Which was another three years, which was a lot of logistical work, but it was great fun as well. And then we needed to branch out. We started developing this app, which is any week now. Awesome. It's going to be in your iTunes store.

And then-- which is a bit more authentic, so it's me on video with a few runners behind us, and take you through, again, the four systems-- fartlek, aerobic power-- That's cool. --hills, and speed endurance. So you can do it any treadmill, any track, any trail in the world. And then we-- eventually, we had to open up the big headquarters, but we needed the treadmills. You can't lease them. You've got to buy them. So it was a process. Yeah. It was a fair-- as you would know, it was a fair old process. And we needed space. We needed a massive crash.

And we needed the strength and conditioning set up. So we had to find the right-- Tick all the boxes. Yeah. But look, we've been very blessed. We've got a beautiful building. And we found where we needed it, and we-- the crash room and everything. So it's worked out perfect. Awesome. Awesome. When did you know that it was the right time to move out? It was probably the right time in-- from a business sense three years or four years ago. We only been in this building for a year and a half, guys. But it was purely the capital with us, because-- like most people in business, because-- purely because of all those treadmills.

And yeah, look, it's not easy. So we had to really do a lot of work. Plus, we'd spent shit loads of money on the app and in the course and everything. So the app-- at least the app's got a line at the end of the tunnel, whereas some of the app-- so you spend a lot of money in business, and you make sure-- you hope that it all works out. And in this business, I knew that we'd have-- but then you got the-- you got to make sure everything's right. Yeah. Make sure it's actually what you want to spend.

So yeah, probably three years ago, but we opened up a year and a half. So it was probably 12 to 18 months of-- and again, like, I was always a bit hesitant going, oh, geez, we're going to get all that to get those treadmills. But then Shell was like, no, no, we'll be all right. We'll get it. And we're confident that once you open the doors, it was going to be mayhem, just because you had-- because we're in the area, the same area. We weren't moving 30K away. And I was confident that would-- that would be OK.

And you've got a service, and you're a big part of this, that people are willing to travel. Like, you've got people going from all over the shop, right? Yeah, we have. It's awesome, yeah. And it's-- these guys travel a long way. Like, I don't know if I'd travel as far as to see my ugly head at 5 AM. You know, a lot of them do travel, which is beautiful. Yeah, there's a few. We've got a couple of futures of travel. And yeah, it's really cool. So really motivated people to get up that early and drive 30, 40 minutes to get to us.

What have you learned running your own shop as well as business in the last 18 months? What have been the main takeaways? So much luck, I reckon. The last year and a half has definitely been-- it's been the best year, but it's certainly been-- you learn every day. Number one, I guess it's just to be prepared and not to overreact to anything, because stuff's going to happen. When you're dealing with 250 people a week, and those people aren't the issue, but little things will always go wrong. Not overreact. Everything that happens or happens in a business is-- that goes wrong-- thanks, mate-- is out of your control to some extent.

We try to control the controllables, as you would, and-- but things pop up that you don't expect. So you probably don't overreact like anything. Well, that's exactly-- you can control how you react to a situation, but you can't control that situation happening. Totally. You can-- that is-- that's awesome. And that's been a big-- it's the same as anything, same as sport. Never be too high, never be too low. And just try to take it in your stride. And I guess be-- every time you're having a bad day or a bad week-- and when I say that, it might be just things like-- little things like a couple of car parking issues or-- we've all got them.

We've all had them. Different things, the bills pile up, whatever it might be. You've just got to learn to just sit back, take a breath, and really be grateful for this experience. Like, there's so many people that won't ever do what we're doing, and that's fine as well. But we put ourselves in this situation. So we can't afford to-- Exactly. It's our fault. We can't afford to be too high or too low. And I tell you what, if you're having a bad week, I tell you who doesn't want to hear about it-- your athletes. They don't want to hear about it.

So you've just got to-- and that's actually a good thing. The fact that I can rock in at 5 AM and be happy because I've got 30 people that need me to be is actually good for me. 100%. And you, obviously. Yeah, well, that's it. It's when people come to us and to you guys to kind of escape all the shit that's going on in their lives, they don't want to hear about your shit. And a lot of them-- I'm sure you can say the same-- have become really close friends now. And then you can confide in them when you have a bit of time just with them.

Definitely. And it's one of those-- Yeah, exactly. Because it's one of those things that if you come in and feed off the energy of all of your clients, then you're probably going to have a good day. And that's the way I look at it. So true, mate. And we're very lucky in that facet as well. Because imagine we're at-- here, this is why we're in the best game in the world as well. Because imagine we're in these companies that are stressful, yes. But you're in an industry you don't really like. So we're-- I love my staff, as you do.

Love all the people I get to coach every day. So we're-- it's super hard. But yeah, that's probably the big one. Don't know I'm reacting. Because it only makes it worse. And things are going to go wrong. Yeah, absolutely. And there's a million things-- you got a million balls up in the air. And you've got to just try to breathe and juggle them, I guess, is the biggest thing. Definitely. What's-- obviously, the app's on its way and very, very close. What's next for runners? What's the next two, three, five years look like? Yeah, that's a really good question.

The headquarters at the moment is obviously-- it's definitely where we want it to be. And we've got a couple of strength coaches coming on just to help me a bit next year. Because that's just Chelsea there. The app is definitely number one. Because that's global. And it's the way to authentically get the brand out. And then definitely, it's funny, we had a bit of this conversation last week. Definitely, in the CBD would be-- but definitely not the size that we've got. And we're definitely structured a little bit differently. We don't have to be there as much.

And I'd love to get our product in Melbourne CBD. We had a fella come down from Sydney last week. And he goes-- he's a team fella and just looking at our setup. And he goes, well-- I can't do his accent. Even though my surname is Maribel, I'm no good, am I, mate? He goes, well, may I ask Rick, why here? And he looks around Chelsea. And he goes, why here? Why not in CBD Melbourne? I said, mate, I started when I was bloody 23, 24. I just wanted to be close to home at the time. And we couldn't afford to set up without the cash flow in Melbourne.

So all those things-- but yeah, definitely let enough rent out. But I want to do it slow. I don't want to do it too fast. It's a hard one because you want to keep moving forward and keep progressing. But at the same time, if you go too fast, you could fuck the whole lot. Quality control is massive. That's one of the struggles I'm going with at the moment. It's just like, well, we're-- some days we're at capacity and we're bursting at the seams. And it's just like, well, shit, where do we go from here? It's a tough decision and tough-- It's hard.

You want to grow, but you want to make sure you don't ever sell out either. Spot on. It's a really hard one. So I just think the quality-- as long as the quality remains high and you can train your coach and you've got lots of good ones as well, there's a possibility. That's why I'm getting a couple of SNC guys in. The runners are working on a couple of things that we can work-- so the virtual and that kind of stuff, which means they can follow the treadmills or the screens. But the coach in the SNC side of it definitely need a few fellas in.

So you've done that really well. You've got a lot of-- Yeah, I just tried to get people in to do the things that I was shit at, which we're getting there. And I'm sure you're probably similar. I hate delegating. I like doing everything myself and getting it done my way. But when you can allow yourself to uncheck the ego for a second-- That's when you grow. And I've had a few really good coaches over the years, and you do have to leave your ego at the door, because that's the same as any industry. But definitely with coaching, I think it's really important that they know your system because they're under your brand.

But you've got to let them do what they do. And that's not easy for some of us. And it's certainly got a little bit easier for me, but there's time when I couldn't do it at all. Because you're so passionate and proud about what you have produced, and you want to make sure that not one day goes by where someone has a bad experience. So you need everyone to have the best experience every single time, and also be ticking the boxes to be moving forward, as linear as it can be in a sports science world. And you want to make sure everyone's got the same passion as you, as far as coaching.

Some of them, a lot of them do. But it's hard. It's bloody hard. Definitely. Who have been the big mentors and people that you've looked up to that have allowed you to get to this point? Well, definitely. I've got to say Mum, Dad. Mum, Dad and Chell. Definitely mentors and just massive support. So those three, definitely. And then early days, I guess, I was a couple of people, minus you, as a young runner myself, Tim Wallace and Chris McCarthy. So two super runners themselves, Chris O'Olympian, Bronze Medalist, Com Games. Tim was a gun, ran in America.

So those guys I learned a lot from. And then now it's more, as you might be now, it's more the best coaches and the best physiologists, possibly not even alive at the moment. But people like Arthur Liddy, Jack Daniels, Renata Canova on Big On, an Italian coach who's, a lot of their methodology really rings true to me. And whether I meant it or not, I found myself really, really excited with them and a lot of their views. Those three, the big ones, Brad Hudson, I love, Alberto Salazar, even though he's under a bit of a cloud.

Those five or six running coaches, and two of them are really good sports scientists. As far as, yeah, the mind to him when I was running, and I had a few really good footy coaches, like Patty Swaim was a big influence on me as well. But yeah, that's pretty much it, brother. That's cool. That's a lot of incredible people. Yeah. That's cool. You keep it. You're awesome. I've listened to yours, a few of these now, when I'm yours going to be on. You've got a really wide range of guys. I never look it up on your bookshelf now.

They're so much different, so different. Yeah. And I'm probably not as wide as that, like Richard Branson. I've seen Tim Ferriss. I'm probably not as wide as that. I'm probably more, I'm not sure if this is just my personality, but I'm just obsessed about these two or three things. And I really want to read and read and learn every day about what I'm really good at, and then probably 10% of the weight work on my weaknesses. And I don't know, it's obviously worked so far, but I don't know if I can't retain. I just don't know if I can't retain.

Like dietetics and that, I always hand off. Return to sport, I've got a lot better at, but I still hand off to some good people, so. Yeah. But that's like, you're a, not perfect, but you're an amazing, I guess, practitioner as soon as you can go, you know what, I'm good at this, but this person's better, and you can handle it off. As well, it's a lot better. But it's such a simple thing. It is simple. That a lot of people don't understand. And I think that's why, like that's, to not want to talk about

negatives, but that's one of the reasons why the industry struggles the way it does, because PT courses and teach their PTs that hey, you can do all this stuff, whereas really, like, you come out of a PT course, you can teach someone how to do three or four things, and that's about it. Yeah. But. And I think if there's, if there's listeners on this podcast, no doubt there will be, that might be doing a cert four or their undergrad at the moment, I think it's crucial that you just, we tell all our guys, just continue to read every day, and maybe you pick two or three, two or three things you really want to be good at.

Yeah. It was easy for me, because I kind of knew already. I think that made, and it just made it easy to know who to follow, who to read, who to research. But when you're genuinely interested in it, it's how easy is it to pick up on an article? And the retention is so much easier, I understand that. So if you're not genuinely interested in it, you possibly might move towards another topic or area of expertise. But yeah, certainly mate, they're my big ones, I would imagine. There's certainly no one off the top of my head.

A lot of, the good coaches that mix a little bit of science, I love. I've never been big on, like, just, I love a bit of facts and. Yeah, well coaching, like, for me is just art and science mixed in together. Sometimes you need to load up on the art side of things when someone just needs the motivation to get out of bed in the morning, or sometimes when they're right at the pointy end and they need to get that last little, you know, ten seconds off their 10k, like, what are the things you can do?

Then it's all science-based, so. And that's something like, again on your environment and culture you've created, like, that's something that's really, really evident from someone that hasn't been there, but talks to a lot of people that come to you guys, because you're so, you're so able, you're able to pick and choose when you push the art, when you push the science. Yeah, yeah, thanks, mate. And it, look, you would say it as well, there's, you got, in a room of 30, you might have five, like, this is obviously, everyone's got individual stuff going on, so

you might have five or six dealing with genuine mental health problems, five or six that might be struggling at work, five or six that are really struggling for tea, and another five or six that are flying. So, all of a sudden, that's a, that's 25% through the room, bang, bang, bang, it's like, and not one person knows the other person's issue. Yeah. So, it's cool, because they can come there and forget, like you said, forget about it for 90 minutes or so, and, and hopefully start to train their psychology to work through whatever they're going through.

And like, yeah, I'm certainly not a neuro, like, not a psychologist, or, or even a neuroscientist, but I think that there's been so much proven with, with different serotonin levels and that, and, and. Well, movement creates energy and creates happiness, and, you know, all the endorphins and the hormones that are released from you just moving, getting out of moving and out of the house, and yeah, it's not a, it's not a difficult thing to understand why so many people love running and training and things so much, it's a really simple one. And I think we,

like those, those neurotransmitters that are released and that, but also just the social aspects as well, that, that, that, that release, and you, exactly the same environment. It's a community of people, right? And they feel apart, and it is, we are, we are a really, and sporting clubs are like family, and that's exactly what I guess we've done in a way, and everyone's got different goals, which is really cool. So, and that's, that's exactly what you, like you guys have got so many different team sports and team sport athletes, and you get around who's racing

that weekend or who's playing that weekend or how did a lot go at the footy or, and you talk about the game, and that, that's the coolest thing, that's what I love, yeah. If I, what do you think of the term work-life balance? Yeah, it's a good one. It's, it's a lot of a struggle. It's something I struggle with as well. Yeah, I guess when I was racing properly, I, I struggled to switch off, and now the last five, six years business-wise, I struggle to switch off, and yeah, it's a tough one. I think it, I think if you can prioritise throughout four things in your life, I think you go a long way.

I've only read recently a couple of real good gurus that have, that work in the 90 minute rule. You've probably read it as well. 90 minutes of real intense, this is not when you're, not when we're coaching, sorry, not when we're planning or programming or whatever. 90 minutes of real intense work, followed by 90 minutes of something else, leisure or, or even sleep or something, and we all know sleep is the greatest tool that we can ever use. 100%. I'm getting better, but what I was saying about prioritising, sorry, is obviously family is always first,

and then family and business and friends, I think those three things, not necessarily in that order, family, friends, business, and then your own training has to come in there somewhere, because you can't possibly coach in our game if you're not at least fit, and I sit here not very fit, but at least I can still do what I'm preaching, but I'm certainly not anywhere near the level. But you've lived all that. Yeah, and we've all got, I'm 10 years older than you mate, but we do definitely want to keep getting better, don't we? I've got

in the back of my head still things I really want to do on an individual basis, but I don't articulate that often, I just want it to, I know that it's there, and one day I'll have that balance to be able to go work, train, plan, family, friends. It's never any battle to find that balance. Don't get me wrong, I've got a lot better, and I think the headquarters, because we're such a session-based as you are, I don't have to be there all the time, because if there's no sessions, the gym might be open, I've got a staff on, I can get out.

I can see all the kids' sport, we've got three kids, I can get to most of their sports, and that's the most important stuff for me, not missing that. Certainly don't get out on the town like I would have used to, but we still socialise, because in our game, we're done on Saturday mornings, we don't work Sunday, so we can still go out and have fun. I think the training as a coach takes a big, takes a massive hit, and I think it's definitely number one. The number one thing, it's the first thing to go.

Definitely, definitely, and I've found, obviously, you've listened to my podcast, the one that Polcie interviewed me, but I was just all footy, footy, footy, footy for so many years, and then as business started edging footy out a little bit, little bit by little bit by footy. My training is, like you said, the first thing to go, and it's going, "Well, shit, what's the priority now?" For me, if I've got an hour free, I'll come down to the office and do some work, which is, if you told me that five years ago when I used to love training, I would have been like, "No."

It's funny and making myself, kind of like we talk to our clients about it, it's making myself actually do the training, because that's going to make everything else better. It does, but because you're such a high achiever, and before it went on air, I was not a pumpy star, but I was saying what a great job. I've watched Loggy from afar for a few years, and to play VFL senior football at such a strong club as well, and run the business is ridiculous. I didn't know how he was doing it, because I knew how much

my performance had dropped off in all assets of sports, so to be able to make good on you to be able to play that level of footy for so long, because most of those guys, as good blokes as they are, haven't got the business stress that you would have had, and I'm sure a couple have, but not many. Not a VFL level, it's just too hard. Yeah, exactly. It's just way too hard. It's a pretty cool group at Vifiers with a lot of the guys that, you know, they'd be working 14, 15 hour days trying

to fit in footy around it, but that's why VFL, I guess life spans are so short, because most guys are in there for a year or two, and they go, "Holy shit, this is tough," and go back to local. I really love the VFL boys, and worked with many of them, and the way they did it after they'd been on the tools for 10, 12 hours, and the load they had to do, especially in summer, but even in season on Wednesday nights, the load you've got to take on the body, and then the VFL boys,

obviously, both work with many that they can go and sleep, or they go on the chill out zone and play Xbox, and they're the first to admit that, and they're all great blokes, but they know they've got it good. Yeah, they definitely do have it good, and yes, they do all the extra stuff, but that's not the same as working 40, 50 hour weeks. So I guess, back on that, with the work life, someone like yourself, I hope to still be seen play footy for the next 10 years, you'll end up playing 200 more MPFL games.

So that, then, how are you going to manage that, and hopefully that, then, have you got something in the back of your head that you want to ... At the moment, it's hard, but you can still get the best out of yourself. Yeah, I'm just balls deep in work at the moment, and I know I'm okay with that, and what I've done, because it's my first year out of AFL of next year, I booked a holiday for the first couple ... I'll miss the first couple of games, I'll be in South America, because I was just like, "If I don't give myself a break now, I'll probably never have one."

So next year's going to be a little bit of a ... I'm still going to ... I'll still be training, I'll still be going footy, and loving footy, but I'm just going to try and enjoy it. Just purely do it for enjoyment next year, which I see a lot of my athletes and clients, and whether it be work or sport or whatever, I see them get burned out because they don't allow themselves time to rest, and I figured if ... I've had years that it was maybe one year in the middle of AFL there, or

I just didn't want to play footy, like I just didn't enjoy it, and at the end of that year, I went away for a month, came back, couldn't be more excited to play footy, so it doesn't take much for you to kind of rejig that enthusiasm, you've just got to allow yourself time away from it. Especially when you have been at the Pawnee Inn for so long, and it was nearly a job, you were that close to ... it was seven years at that level, so it's a job. It's a job, mate. Yeah, add up the hours a week, it's definitely a solid part-time job.

So you need that break. It's funny you say overseas, this is one thing the work-life balance that Shell definitely would probably listen to this game, or what about ... we haven't had an overseas trip since 2012, and that stuff takes a back end because you put so much energy into the business, and don't forget, we're thinking, this is the first of its kind, we have to get it right, we have to get it right, and you pay good lawyers to trademark everything. You cover all your bases, but you make sure ... so you sacrifice holidays, you sacrifice time away because ...

so we need to really take the kids on a holiday next year, and we definitely will be doing that, but that's the stuff that I've been really shit at, is actually saying, "No, fuck it, I need a week off," but then I'm obsessed with getting better, so it's not a good mix, but I've certainly improved. I've certainly improved, but yeah, I think probably most people would answer the same way. I think most people in business would answer that. Yes, well, I struggle with that work-life, just that mindset of, "Well, I'm either resting or I'm working."

I like to try and mix the both, but I'm not naive enough to think that if I don't give myself some time off, I'm just going to burn myself out, and my goal, I want all my staff to be going away a couple of weeks, a month, a year, to be able to reset and rejuvenate, because then they're going to want to get up at 5 a.m. in the morning and train everyone. It's funny, we talk about so much recovery and regeneration in physiology and that, and then we don't regenerate from it, but I'm not very good at regenerating from a business sense.

But if I was doing a quality workout, I'd definitely recover, I'd soak it up on a team. But it's no different. Your body's soaking it up. I'd love it at an easy recovery run the next day, "How good is this? I'm soaking up yesterday's set." But you don't do any business, because you don't think about life, but it's so true. No, but when you allow yourself to and step back and take a breath, your business wins from it, because you allow fresh ideas and all that kind of stuff. Which is what we've ... Business mentor,

because I've had, I guess, Shelley and a couple of people around, is one thing that I think is really valuable, which I need, because I'm not ... I'm certainly not a business-minded person, so I'm not sure. Have you had a few ... I've got a business coach now, a couple of guys that help us out with heaps, heaps of different things. I've had ... I've been ... That's probably one of my strengths, I've been pretty good the last four or five years, is seeking out mentors and going to someone, "Hey, can we just sit down and chat over coffee?"

I've been lucky enough to have some pretty amazing people. Yeah, that's cool. Like my accountant, Chris Ting, has been amazing, like Lincoln Bart, like Geordie Kerwick, I've had heaps of, I guess, people that I've been able to send a message to every now and again and just say, "Hey, what do you think about this?" Or catch up with them once every month, and they challenge me on what I'm doing, and it allows me to check to make sure that I'm putting my ... You and I both pour our heart and souls into our businesses. You

make sure that that's actually going to the right spot, and that it's actually going to benefit in the long term, and you're not just baying your head against the wall. Yeah, that's the thing. You don't want to be absolutely wasting, not wasting, but I guess spending energy every single day, and feel like you're banging your head, but I think a bit of an outside of respect is always good. Definitely. That's for sure. Yeah. If you could summarise your philosophy on life, what would it be? I reckon this would have changed a fair bit over the years.

If it's definitely today, I just think we just enjoy every single day, and really try to ... I always say, try to make the most of every single day, and that certainly sounds really corny, but just try to be happy with the people around you. Gratitude is one thing that gets thrown around so much these days, but I really think it is the key to success, and that's take it or leave it, whatever you be. I've just been grateful for the vision we're in right now, and the opportunity we've got right now, and not ever dwelling, just no worry, because it's never ...

The stress hormone and all that, you're never going to ... Nothing's going to flourish out of worry and concern, so whatever the situation may be, we're grateful for whatever we've got, and we move forward. Probably 10 years ago, I would have said just hard work, just work, work, work, hard work, and that doesn't really ... It doesn't suffice, because you need to be able to deal with the situations. So much more to life than just hard work, and we want to be working hard at times, and we want to be letting ourself relax at times, and we want to be having fun.

My way of having fun was always going out and having massive weekends, and that isn't ... It's great to have a few beers with mates, but it's certainly not the right way, because I was so intense with work, training, drinking, work, training, but- It's going extremely fast. But I've got a lot better at ... And just being happy in every ... I just love to smile and laugh, and I think we all do in headquarters, and obviously Virtus as well, because it ... And I think there's some science now that says that if you are racing a 1500, and you literally just fucking smile and embrace it, it's actually got a bit of ...

I don't think it's tempest though. I can't remember the data. Look at that paper form going ... Hopefully it was a sample size of three, and it was a bit bigger sample, but there's- And if you don't run as fast, you'll still be happy because you're smiling. Yeah, you'll be happy. Yeah, while you're throwing up. Yeah. But it's definitely just to be happy every day. And look, don't waste your life so short, and all these analogies that all of us hear every day, but it is true. Like, let's just ... You could easily make the worst of a situation.

I think if you're feeling like, "Geez, I'm tired," or, "Christ, I could do it for a break," or, "Jesus, what in such and such do that," or this, you just really embrace each day and go, "Geez, I'm so stoked just to be sitting next to Lachie talking shit for an hour." Yeah. "Well, life's great." That's the worst way to spend it. Yeah. He's looking good too, ladies and gentlemen. Stop it. His hair's looking so good today. Fuck. I love you. Yeah, one of the guys, probably my favorite person to follow at the moment is Dr. Perry Nicholson.

He's just an incredible practitioner. He's Stop Chasing Pain on Instagram, if you want to jump on him. He's been strong fire every day, and I've literally screenshot every one of his posts for the last week because he's just been on fire. But one of my favorite things he said is, "Worrying about health will destroy your health," and it's just like as soon as you start worrying about being stressed, you're probably going to be stressed. As soon as you start worrying about not having the rig you want or not running the times you want, you're probably not going to get there.

If you focus on the – you move that mindset from what I don't have or what I'm not getting at the moment to, "Well, here's what I need to do to work on it and what I actually need to do to be positive," you're going to get to where you want to get to. For me, that's so – I've been probably lucky that I've surrounded myself with positive people that help instill that into me, but it's just, yeah. Yeah, that's so true, and that's beautiful. That stuff is what you need to see, but you can't just see it and forget about it.

See it and act on it. You're someone that sees it and acts on it and also helps hundreds of others act on it, and I'm definitely the same, but, jeez, I wasn't very good at it a time ago. The process is the one thing that I really try to instill, because if you're listening to this podcast and you might be having an average day, you need to know that, yeah, let's control the controllers and let's help – process is everything. Motivation can be a real fleeting word. I think we both know that, and I'm not massive on – I know you're not either on motivation or crazy about weight loss and all that crap.

It's a process-driven thing, and if we take care of the processes for months and months and months and months on end, believe me, physically, mentally, emotionally, you will be where you want to be, but it's – unless the athlete's buying in, and they do buy in. If they come to see me or you, then they're buying in. They're not getting into a 12-week challenge or another fad on Instagram or another bloody franchise. They're coming to – they've got purpose. They're going to – from where they are now to where they are in 12 weeks or 24 weeks or 36 weeks, they're going to be in a better spot.

I say three years. Yeah, three years. Yeah, I say, "Look, you've got to give this three years," and regardless of if they want to run a marathon for Boston or they want to bloody emotionally feel better, they'll feel better every day. The byproducts are, yes, you'll feel better every single day. Yes, you'll be a much productive employer or you'll be so much better at work. You'll be so much better mom or dad. The byproducts are all those things. You'll feel better in your jeans. You'll look better. You'll feel great in photos. You won't feel bad about getting in the pool, but the actual main goal, the group A goal – I did the fingers again.

The group A goal is that marathon in three years or two years or 18 months, and that's pretty cool. The byproducts are the aesthetics and all the other stuff, the emotional health, but the group – the A goal, which we – They get that sense of achievement when they hit it, and no one would spend three years with you or me and go, "You know what, I regret the last three years," because they've actually spent the time and put the effort in to actually achieve what they want to achieve. The data doesn't lie. By the way, it's obviously not legal, but the output trends don't lie.

It's really, really cool. I think that's what me and you take out of sport and coaching and all the research and just general team and athletic sport that this is where we want to be in September. You're at the end of September. How am I going to do it in November? This is what I've got to do. You don't just win flags. Here's the process. You don't just drop 10 kilos in eight weeks to look at your bikini body. It's a process. It's a process. A lot of the stuff you might not think is fun, but you can make fun because it's part of the journey.

Yes, exactly. You start enjoying the little steps along the way. One of the things that I hate almost more than anything in this industry is six, eight, 12-week challenges. We're going to throw our take on an eight-week challenge next year. It's a piss-take? I love it. Not so much a piss-take, but it is because we want to piss on everything that they stand for with eight, 12-week challenges. You're the body of a king. We want to teach people. We're going to market it like an eight to 12-week challenge. I didn't know this, by the way. This wasn't a segue.

But we're planning one for early next year, which will be- So your take, which is a lot more- It's just completely our take. It's all movement-based. We want to teach people how to move, and then we can add the capacity stuff as we go. So, yeah. This is the best. Movement over muscles, ladies and gentlemen. Exactly. This is why this play is the king. You're doing better as well. It's a bit heavy. I'm really excited to be a little bit abrasive and to throw a little bit of shade at the way the industry has run

because it's like everyone, yes, 12-week challenges, rapid weight loss, whatever, for 5% of the population can be the thing that sparks them to get moving, but it doesn't instill the discipline and continuity, like I said before, that gets people where they want to get to. I think that's really important. I guess the analogy I use, I probably use it on these podcasts a bit, and I used it this morning when I was talking to one of my clients, is everyone wants to stand at the bottom of a mountain and look at the summit and go,

"I want to be up there," but very few people, unless they actually commit to it, will commit to taking every little step along the way. When you're able to enjoy the journey at 100 meters and 200 meters, and you're able to enjoy the view halfway up and three-quarters up, you start allowing yourself to actually enjoy the process. It's so much more about the journey than the destination. That is, if you can take one thing out, forget about what I'm saying, if you can take one thing out of that, listeners, bloody hell, that is dangerous. I've got goosebumps now.

I just blacked out for a second, I can't actually remember what I said. I think he was in what we call the flow state, ladies and gentlemen, he was in the flow state, he went really hard, but I love that, because looking down and saying, "You know what, look, we always say how far you've come, appreciate how far you've come," and all this, but that's actually not cheesy, it's actually real, enjoy each day. That's what we tell our guys, we're going to be having a good day. Some days you're going to be thinking, "Oh, everything

is just easy," and then you try to diarise what you've done, why is everything easy, but it just could be one of those days, and then some days, obviously, it's a chore, but you really got to avoid making it a chore, because it's not a chore, it's still a bloody privilege. You can't have those easy days without putting in the work on the days where you feel shitty or don't want to go to bed. One thing I said at our presentation a couple of weeks ago is we've given out the awards and a few of

the award winners hadn't done any races this year, so not one race, but just such good people, and you know what, 52 weeks of the year, so they were there front and up. Now, possibly 22 to 25 of those weeks, on average, they probably felt physically like rubbish, whether it's work or whatever, but they're the most important weeks. Those 22 weeks out of the calendar year where you don't feel like doing it is when you've really got to do it. The 30 weeks that feel great, of course, that's average, that's not obviously continuous, but those

30 weeks in a calendar year, and that's just going off someone like me physically, the way I might feel, and a lot of the guys, when we get deep into feedback, but yeah, those 22 weeks listeners, they're the ones, so that's the money, and that's where, when you've got a race or a game or a sport, they're the ones you're going to be strutting around, because you know you've done the work, and maybe your opponent took a few easy weeks in those 22 weeks, and it's very exciting. - To steal one from Snares, which he's probably stolen from you, to be honest, money in the bank.

- Ah, Snares. - Money in the bank. - That's, yeah, I don't know who stole that from who. That might be his. - He'll tell you it's his. - That's the only thing, if it's his, it's the only thing that's his, I reckon, and he's stolen a lot from me over these years. - And just ticking the boxes out of yours, surely. - Nah, that actually, fuck, that's two, there is two. - That's all he's got. - Nah, I'll give him those two. - And that's it, but it's just, yeah, finding those little wins along the way.

- Invest in now, and look, all the best coaches say, look, invest now, and look, it's never, ever, ever not going to pay you back, like, you're not going to get to game day, race day, or even just the weekend feeling average, like, you're going to be, even at work, so right now, it's one o'clock in the arvo, we're going to feel more productive, you know, so life's great if you move, simple as that. - Just get moving, and if you don't want him, doesn't matter, just do it. - Just bloody move. - Just do

it, and yeah, I think that's a simple one if you can't get out of bed in the morning, just got to do it, count to five, by five, your feet are on the floor, and carry on with your day. - That's a great way to do it, I often say, just put your phone or your alarm in your shoes and just go. - Oh, that's a good one. - That's a good one, isn't it? - That's a really good one. - I think I made that up. - There you go, you've got one. - I've got one.

You put the phone, and you just have to, because if you think about it, or if you go, oh, fuck, I've had three hours sleep, or this and that and this and that, I'm not going to get home till eight o'clock tonight, just get up, because you'll never, ever, ever, ever regret it. And if you've got a coach or a practitioner that's worth his weight, he'll play it by ear on the day as well. So he'll adjust on the fly. - Everyone will be like, you need to chill out today, or you need to do this, or today's a day to go hard and step it up and let go.

- Yeah, it's fantastic. - Yeah, that's really, really important. I've got a bunch of questions for you that you can be as succinct or as long-winded as you'd like. - Okay. - Now, I feel as though this one's going to be a long-winded one. What is your favorite or the greatest Olympic moment ever? - Oh, Christ, there's a few. It's funny, the one that comes to mind, instantly, I'm not a swimmer, but Kieran Perkins in '96, in lane eight, he already had four, but I was 14, nearly, 13, 14. And that was, and again, there's so much else, but that was unbelievable.

It was written off by everybody. Daniel Kowalski was the favorite, and Dennis committee, I just remember the commentary so vividly saying this is rare gold, and it was lane eight, which means he qualified its lowest in the final. He had a bronchitis or a bit of a flu. And I just looked at that in year eight and go, "This prick is what it's all about." The mental toughness to not only overcome the physical ailments that he was going through that week, the mental ailments that every bastard was writing him off, the fact he couldn't see anyone because he was in lane eight, and again, I'm not a swimmer, but I think that's hard.

So lane eight, and he's just, do you remember that? - Especially over that distance. - And he's 1,500 meters, 1,500 for the guys that don't know Perkins, and he's just done, just mentally, just got him what we said before the flow state, and just refused to believe that he wasn't still the best, because he'd been the best for four years. That one, and look, as a meal Zadopec guy, we've been running, I can't not. So Zadopec in '52 did the triple that no one else will ever do, the 5K, 10K, marathon gold medals. So no

one will ever do that again, and I know it was 1952, but you still have to run those three races, and the times would still, they're obviously 60 years on, but they're still not bad times. It was a free Zadopec, but yeah, those two, I reckon, mate. - Good, very good. That was for Palsy. - Oh, was it? (laughing) - What were you like at school? - Geez, I loved what I love now. I loved exploring performance and physiology, I loved year 12 PE, I loved all that, but not great, I guess I struggled to mature early on.

I loved my mates, I loved footy, I loved partying far too much. - Nothing wrong with that, mate. - Yeah, I know, but yeah, it definitely distracted me, I wasn't, yeah, PE and footy, I had an interest in helping people in leadership roles, but unfortunately, academically, probably wasn't given those roles, just 'cause I was too much, I was probably playing up too much, but I love school. - Second part of that question, if you could add five subjects or subject areas to the school curriculum that you wish you were taught, what would they be? -

Yep, I think, that's a very good question on the off the cuff, I think a couple more that are real life would be great, because someone like me, I didn't know what I wanted to do, I didn't think there was a future in what I did, especially not a viable future. I think a career's pathway, I don't know about five, but just two or three different career choices, now, just to show me that no, you're actually not cut out to be a trainer, 'cause you're quite useless, but anyway, maybe I could do that. - I'd be exactly the same.

- I think I've got VCAT and that stuff now, and all VCAL, but not when I was young, definitely a couple of, four or five more choices, maybe some screening in year 10, to say, where your passions lie, because I think we all really flourish when we're working with our passion, that could be anything, cars, sport, hair, whatever. - Just finding out what you're loving. - So if we can get that early, and I think we would have got that coaching physiology early, 'cause I just remember loving the energy system so young, and just how do you work on this?

How do you manipulate these energy systems to be better? That was always my passion, still is today, so it's weird, if I'd have known that in 16, 15, maybe they could have gotten into 17, 18, but because it was just the basic maths and English and science, I as a young, naive 17-year-old thought, well, maybe I'm just gonna be a traitor like all my mates, which is not a bad thing, they're killing it and they're all my best friends, but I wasn't that good at that. - That wasn't you, yeah. - No, it certainly wasn't,

and everyone can attest to that, so probably a career-based thing, and I reckon a passion finder, if you can find your, and even if the kids are totally oblivious to their passion at the time, maybe there's a process to help them. I know Pulse and a few other real good VCE teachers are so good now at finding it in 2017. Certainly wasn't like that one. I went to school, I finished in 2000, it's a long time ago, so they're a little bit different. They just wanted to get you in and out, get you in and out and get your VCE.

- Exactly, exactly. If you could invite three people to dinner, dead or alive, who would they be and why? - Okay, so we won't, so I'll go celebrities, so I won't go family and friends, we'll go family and friends, definitely Vern going better, we spoke about him earlier, just because he's 70-something, and he's still such a ... - Mate, I love reading his posts every day. - I love him. I love everything he stands for, and that's why I'm really looking forward to what you're doing next year to that challenge, because he would love that, he's the kind of person.

So Vern's just a movement expert, and he's been an SNC and science guru for 50 years, maybe more. Started in swimming, track and field, but he's brilliant. Just to pick his brain, because he's forgotten more than I know. I think Alberto Salazar, as a distance running coach for many reasons, I think he's the best coach in the world currently, but he's under a lot of suspicions, so I'd love to ask him what the hell's going on, but I still believe his physiology and that's top notch, but he's definitely hopefully not doing something dodgy, but everyone

seems to think he is, and someone for a bit of fun, that's a good question, someone like David Boone, just to see if he can replicate the 52 cans he did for Melbourne or London. - Yeah, that's pretty elite. - And if me and him can go beer for beer and see who dies first, that'd be my three of them. - I think it'd be you. - Yeah, that's a good mix. - Yeah, that's a great mix. What are you most proud of? - My family, definitely my family, number one, and number two, obviously the community I've created, I think they're the only two.

- That's huge. - Yeah, you don't look back at awards and all that stuff, I think you look back at the people that you've met and the people that are still around, so definitely family and community friends, 'cause if you can have a coffee and a beer with some good people and enjoy their company, that's really what you want, isn't it? - 100%. Flip side of that question, what are you most ashamed of? - That's a good question. There's been many evenings on the pisser, I'm probably not proud of myself, but I probably wish I

had have knuckled down a lot earlier, I know, like I'm 35 and we've built this, but yeah, definitely that, definitely, and just footy and other things I feel like I had unfinished business because I probably wasn't looking after myself in the way I should have and you can never regret stuff, but yeah, definitely I didn't look after myself anywhere near enough, and even when I was a good level of running, I wasn't looking after myself, so I've learned a lot since then. - If money wasn't an issue and you couldn't fail, what would you do with your life?

- I couldn't fail. Well, I definitely still don't know what I'm doing now, but I wouldn't be doing possibly the hours, but I'd definitely be coaching the same group of people, I love what I do, I love them. - It's good to be able to give that answer. - Yeah, it's pretty cool, and that's with every, all my hand and my heart, I couldn't be more honest, definitely coaching, I'd travel a lot more with my family, and I would, I'd love to, I'd love to, I'd love to take a experiment, like a, I'd love to

just dabble a little bit, because money is an issue, I don't need the money, and I believe I still have a little bit to offer in Football Commission and I feel Aussie Rules Commission, but that's just an old passion on the side, it's got, no, you wouldn't do it, it just gets so hard to make money and all that kind of stuff, but I feel like, I feel like that's still a bit of unfinished business as well, but that's, yeah, it's certainly just for a bit of fun. - Nice, do you have a mantra? - I've got a few mantras people could quote for me, Jesus, how many, there's a kick again, there's a-- - Just load 'em up.

- No, no, I can't give you-- - We've got time. - I got all my catchphrases, there's too many. I think, I think work hard, recover well would be the generic one, 'cause, and just enjoy every single day, whether it tills, or whether we're doing mile repeats, or whether we're doing a 30K long run, or whether I've told you to recover, or like he's doing off-leg stuff in the pool, just embrace every person that comes into your life, because they're all there for a reason, I feel. - I love it. What is success to you?

- Well, I think it's happiness, I think, I don't think, I certainly don't think it's money, I think it's definitely been happy, and everyone's version is different, but stop really, if you're listening and you're not happy, you've got to, number one rule is to stop comparing yourself to other people, and that, if you can not compare yourself to Joe Blay down the street, who's putting on Instagram six times a day, you'll be fine, that is number one. Number two is, your life will, as long as you've got that attitude, the rest will come, like Locke

said before, that's what he said about the focus, like the negative focus on, oh I can't, I can't do it again, I've got to do it his way now. - It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. - So true, and that, what he said before, I was nodding, again, no cameras in here, which is disappointing, I was nodding my head in total agreement of the great man, but yeah, just to be happy every day, and it sounds so easy for me to say, because I just said that I love what I do, but if you're in a

job that you don't like, let's work on things to make you happier, and let's work on a process to possibly get you out of that career, or how can I make this work for me? - That's exactly it, like one of the questions I love to ask is, well you're not happy, okay, that's fine, you're aware of it, what needs to happen for you to move into something you love? And then it's just a step-by-step process, like it might take five years or ten years, but. - But you know you're working towards a process, and

like exactly what I was gonna say, well it's not gonna happen tomorrow, but just the fact that you've got something, and like I know you're really good at this with your conversation, you have with your guys, like how can I get you to be happy in your life as well, which I think is fantastic, and we often have the same conversations, just if you're not happy, if there's something bothering you, you come with, let's have a coffee, and let's nut it out, and it might take three coffees or three different times to try to come

up with a resolution to work towards, which is pretty cool, hopefully people walk away a lot more, a lot more intelligent for the conversation, just say, you know what, I don't have to live the way I've been living for the last 20 years. - And that's a cool thing, 'cause we don't have to give the answers, we just ask the questions and everyone figures it out. - Yeah, and I feel sad for people that don't have someone to help them through that, 'cause there's many people that aren't involved in sport that don't have that, I wouldn't imagine, like the amount of people we come across in a week, they're awesome, because they've got networks that work.

- They put themselves in the environment where they can. - And they might not have wanted to at the first, but they do now, and they love it, but the people that unfortunately just work, go home, go to bed, and hate it, they're the ones that want to help, and that's I think, things like you're doing here, and everything's really cool, because anyone can listen to this, and hopefully it helps, hopefully it helps people that we might never meet them, but yeah, that's brilliant. - Alright, last couple, a few favorites for you, or for me, I'm asking you for a favorite, favorite movie?

- Favorite movie? - First thing comes in the air. - Rocky IV, but Varsity Blues. - Favorite song of all time? - Jesus. Yeah, this is Bogan Somerville, I mean, Paul Kelly, To Her Door. - Oh, great track, very, very good track. Favorites joke? - Oh mate, I'm not good with this, no, it wouldn't be G-rated. - That's okay, mate, it's a podcast, you can do whatever you want. - Okay, sorry. - Favorite book? - There's a few, Jack Daniels, Jack Daniels' book is brilliant. I love Steve Magnus, The Science of Running, he's really, really good, Half a Lydia running to the top, and Pete McGill's got a really good book out, The Runner's Body, look at those four.

- Very, very nice. Favorite way to spend a Sunday afternoon? - Yeah, so, feeling good, maybe a long run in the morning, so you feel good, and in the afternoon would definitely be with, definitely be with, what have you just tried to spend? - Got it, got it. - So, in the morning, so you're feeling good, like, you've ticked the long run box, family, the kids, and a few mates around, with a few cold beers watching the footy, or the cricket, and just having a barbie with 10 or so mates, and the kids running around, and just enjoying the people in your life, while you're watching a bit of sport, that would be the perfect day for me.

- Love it, favorite piece of advice you've ever been given? - Just don't worry, don't bloody worry so much, and I was big on that, and I still have to work on it, but yeah, just enjoy every day. - That's a cool thing to identify, that you're always, all this stuff that all our clients struggle with, we struggle with the same shit. And we've still got to work on it, but we've, because we're constantly reminding ourselves of it, and we see people achieve it. - Every single day I've got to work on it, and I

don't shy away from that, we don't talk about ourselves in a day, me and you, but we remind ourselves internally, and I think that's why we can help. - Definitely, definitely. Last one, favorite quote? There's a Steve Prefontaine quote, this is a bit off the top, Steve Prefontaine's been my favorite runner of all time, got a massive thing of him at HQ on the wall. - Awesome. - He's, he's a quote, now this is probably not really about coaching or anything, but I just stuck with me forever, and it kind of made me feel like

when I was racing, I obviously didn't have visibility, but he said, "I can tolerate more pain than anyone else on the earth," and I don't know why that's the first thing that comes to my head, there's a million, we've said a million cliches today, but that one there, just the ability to say, listen, like his VO2 max was 82, mine's 60, he's run an economy for some, mine's probably not, but, at the end of the day, when it comes to tolerating pain, we all can be equal. - 100%. - We all can be equal, so I love, I love that quote.

- That's cool, I love it, mate, how can people learn about runners and find out about runners, and when's the app out? - The app's out Christmas day, it's been a process, yeah, Christmas day 2017, so. - So when this podcast is released, it'll be out. - It'll be out, fantastic. - So download that shit. - Yeah, so runnersapp.com, runnersapp.com is the, it happened, and we're at runners.com and all our social networks is runners, but yeah, mate, it's been a pleasure, yeah, one of the great men. - Thanks for coming on. - No, thanks, bud. - Love your work.

- Love you. - Bye.