S1E33 · Pat Pedicini: A Life of Adventure

Hey legends, welcome to the Virtus Performance podcast. This is week 33. Today I sat down with an amazing, amazing, incredible, inspiring lady, Pat Pedicini, who some of you would know as Katie Gray's amazing mother. We had a really, really honest chat about adventure and family and the importance of living in the moment. Pat's recently been diagnosed with Parkinson's, so she's had to kind of recheck the plans for the rest of her life and how she wants to live and how she wants to get the most out of it with her amazing family and amazing new granddaughter.

So yeah, it was a really, really honest open chat and something that I would definitely listen back to multiple times. I hope you guys enjoy it. If you do enjoy the podcast, do enjoy the stories, please rate, review, subscribe, all that kind of stuff and get around it. My personal and business goal is to be just a little bit better every day. I believe everyone, especially normal people, have a story to tell. The Virtus podcast exists to help us all find small ways of consistent improvement by discussing the journey and experiences of each of our guests.

Pat, welcome to the podcast. Hello. Hi. What a start. I'm stopped talking. How's your morning been? It's good. I just had a session with Lachie and my daughter Katie and that was great. You're my favorite client, one of my favorite humans. Thank you very much for coming on. This has been a few months in the works, me trying to get the courage to ask you and you finally saying yes. It's magical time. It is. I'm still not sure what I'm saying yes to, but let's just try and see what yes means. Awesome. First question for you.

What gets you out of bed in the morning? What gets you out of bed in the morning? Wanting to be healthy. And so therefore that has been my life, but more as an older woman that has been my life. 32, 33? Oh, I wish I would have. I wish I would have wished. But it would have started when Adam was born and I was given a gym membership for the first time in my life. And so, and I was really stuffed up after his birth, he was a big baby. And so I went to this gym and it's been from then, so Adam is 38, since then I have run or exercised all the time and not...

And when you say all the time, you mean all the time. Yeah. You know, but it's not big, you know, big stuff, not major things, but you know, it's getting up, going for a run or going to the gym or doing Pilates or doing yoga or going for a bike ride every day of the week. What's it like, sorry, where do you find that motivation to get up every day and move and to just explore movement and exercise and things like that? Because you feel so much better. You just, you know, you just feel better

when you don't, you know, if you've been away or something has happened and you're not doing it, you just feel heavy and slow and lethargic. Yeah. You just don't have that sort of energy to do it. And it doesn't mean I get up and I love doing what I'm doing and this doesn't hurt or, you know, I think, shit, why am I doing this? You know, there's always those times, but I'm always coming back, you know, I'm so glad I got up and just went. Well, yeah, it's that old thing, you never regret a workout once it's done.

Yeah. It's a simple one. So those mornings when you wake up and you're just like, I don't want to get out of bed or I don't feel like doing it, what do you tell yourself? What is the, what's the voice at the back of your head saying? Get up. Because you're not going to go back to sleep now, you know, anyway. So you're awake, you know, you're sort of half awake, you're not properly awake, but you know, some people can drift back to sleep. I'm not a person who can drift back to sleep properly. And so I might as well just get up.

I remember that, you know, there's a bucketing rain outside and I always used to run the dog that we had then and the kids are up watching TV, some cartoons or whatever. And I'm looking out the door and it's bucketing rain and they said, you're not going to go out for a run, are you mum? Well, Dodger wants to go for a run. So I went, you know, and then you came home, you know, and you just drenched. And how did you feel though? Yeah, because you went past the elements, you know, you just, you

know, you're in the rain as, you know, it wasn't howling gale, it was raining, pretty heavy, but it was raining and you come back drenched and you think, shit, I did that. You know, I wasn't a mere female, a mere woman or a mere, you know, person. And I just, yeah. And you just do it? Yeah. And so the kids saw those things, you know, that I'd do it. Yeah. Just always do it. And you, and you've raised two very active, adventurous kids in Katie and Adam. Yeah, very much. Do you think that's purely because of your sense of adventure and love for movement?

Yes, as making it part of their everyday life now and how they eat and what they do, absolutely being my influence from that, not my husband, Kerry, at all. You know, he's not that way inclined as well, but he has had a huge influence in that sense of adventure and other things. I was a single mum and wanted to do something different. My life had been pretty traditional, you know, something like that. And a teacher at the, I was teaching maths and science and stuff, and he wanted to go on a camp and he didn't have a female teacher to go with on this camp.

So he said, you know what, I go on the canoeing camp with year 12s, of course I'll do it. I can't swim. Why not? I can't swim. Just don't fall out and you'll be okay. Yeah. And he said he'll be fine. Yeah. So we paneled down the Yarra and we were going really, really slow and going to be really, really late. So there's a tunnel in the Yarra called Pound Ben. And he said, let's take a shortcut through the tunnel in the Yarra. Yeah. Okay. Why not? Why not? You know, we do that. So we go down this tunnel and all of this water is converging off the walls.

And students, you know, are just going all over the place, totally out of control. And then we get to the end of the tunnel and there's this huge rock that the water is pummeling off. And so we, you know, there's kids just things, capsizing, swimming, or we'll just, like if it happened now, you'd be in space. You'd be in a lot of trouble. You'd be really in a lot of trouble. I'm sure I taught the kids a lot. I did. And me. And so, so this guy's name was Mick and he, he said, oh, you did really well.

I probably did well keeping my calm, that was all. And, and he said, let's do this more often. And he put me on a training course to have a canoe, which is when I met Kerry and he was an instructor. And, and then from that time on, we, I took up canoeing, whitewater paddling. And I'm totally, I'm still a non-swimmer and I'm totally freaked out with the top of the, say a Mitchell rapid, this huge, huge water. And I would be, you know, freaking out, say, sick, really sick because I was, I pushed myself much,

much too far, but, um, so I learned the love of adventure then and going camping and being in the outdoors and just, you know, going places that I'd never been to before in Victoria and Australia and, and that, that's what changed me. That's what gave me from being just an ordinary mum, you know, who's, he likes to be, he likes to run and ride and stuff to adventure to adventure. And that's when that, that came in. And then I met other people and women who were like minded in that way. And so I had all

these other role models, um, you still have, you know, little Adam and, um, and he, and then when he, you know, when he was just in it and, um, he just did the same thing. So that's, he grew up seeing adventure daily as it was like it was normal. Yes. That's right. Yeah. What, what kind of, I guess, role models and the people you surround yourself with, how did you seek out those people? How did you find them and what drew you to, I guess, chasing down people who were doing crazy adventurous stuff like that? Yeah.

I didn't see it crazy, I just saw it as adventurous, so there's a difference, you know, I never saw it sort of crazy. Um, so Kerry was a part of the canoe board and, um, instructing people on how to canoe. And so then I, um, learned to become an instructor and also teaching people how to canoe and it's just that community of people. And it's, and even in our sailing that we do now, um, it's the community of people that you're mixing with that makes it, so it's not an individual seek out in, it's a like-minded group who like to be in the outdoors, who, um, just like to hang around at, you know, a campfire and you're, yeah.

And just experience everything rather than sitting at home in front of the TV. Yeah. Like we just, um, this weekend, the last few days went to Wilson's Prom and, um, and it's the same, just, you know, I got, I'd get up and be still asleep and, um, get up at seven and then run to Squeaky Beach or run back and, you know, I just, that was to be just, I love it. It's really, really nice that you come back feeling so good and energised. For the people out there that, I guess, struggled to take that first couple of steps in the run and to actually get moving, what advice would you have for them?

Um, when you think you, you know, you're going to roll over and go back to sleep, don't. It's that simple people, it's that simple, just don't, I love that because, but that's all it is really, like it's, it's really easy. It would be really easy for you to, you know, half of your week go back to sleep, but because you've got that understanding of how much you enjoy it and how much you benefit from it, it's kind of a no brainer. Yeah. Yeah. And you, like in holidays is when I look forward to waking up and going for the run, and so holidays I don't have, um, time off because in wherever you're going, holiday's a really nice place usually.

Um, so when you go for a run, you, you see, you see places and you, you're seeing the city wake up or, you know, wherever you're in the car. And you see it from a different point of view than you would in the car or on a bike. Yeah, you do, yeah. Tell me about your first half marathon. Oh, well my first and only. First and only. Yeah, yeah, that was Katie, um, you know, just saying you can, you can, you can, you can, you can. When was it? When was it? Oh, blah, blah, blah. Was it two years ago?

Two years ago? That's, according to my research, it was two years ago. Um, yeah, so Katie nagged me and I was wondering, well, maybe I could, maybe I could. So over, um, quite a few months, I didn't say anything to Katie or Carrie or anybody. Yeah. And I just started running a bit further and a bit further and Carrie said to me one morning, "You've gone a long time." Like, he hadn't even noticed I'd been doing this for months. And, um, yes, I just kept on going longer and longer and longer to seeing how long I could take and whether I could do it.

Yeah. Before I said anything to anybody because I don't normally compete, you know, I've done fun runs and, you know, 10k's and stuff, but not the half. Yeah. And I wasn't sure, I didn't want to do it if it meant I was going to stuff hips or knees or create chronic injuries because I value being able to do my, you know, 45, 50 minute runs or whatever. And you know, working out. Yeah. I don't want to do stuff that's going to, um... Well, I guess it seems from my point of view, it seems as though

you want to kind of push the boundary slightly, but not take the step over because you want to be able to keep adventuring and keep doing all those things. Yeah. That's right. And I'm not sure how much longer I'll, you know, be able to run. Um, so... I'm sure it'll be a lot longer than most people. Probably, but you know, I'm hoping that's the case. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. Talk to me about your sailing. Is that something that you took up recently or you've been doing for a while? No, I took up, um, Adam was a, Katie is a newborn baby and, um, and we need, I want to do something with Adam.

So Adam and I did a sailing course together, and we, again, not a non-swimmer. Coolest mum ever. Non-swimmer. Going down sailing. My mum's a coolest, sorry. Oh, yes, of course. I have to say that. Of course. I'm not sure if she's been listening, so maybe I don't have to say that, but anyway, carry on. Yes, good. Um, yeah, so Adam and I did the sailing course and we were hopeless, absolutely. I had no idea. I was fearful. I had no idea which way the wind was coming. I knew, no, no, I... That's not a normal thing for people to do.

Just go, you know what? I want to start sailing. Well, Adam wanted to do something with Adam. Yeah. You know, he had a new baby. You know, the baby is dominating all the time, and he was missing out. He wanted to give some time to him. Yeah, he is missing out. Yeah. So that's why we, that's why we got into, um, sailing and, um, and that worked out really, you know, it was, it was good, because again, as a community there, Adam had heaps of kids that are the same and, you know, playing and sailing and doing all of those sort of things.

Yeah. You've done a little bit of competing. Yeah. Sailing of late. Yes. Yeah. So did, um, sailed in the worlds in Japan. As you do. In the worlds. Okay. Good. And I'm really proud of it. You should be. Because there was 97 boats and we got 18. Well done. And, um, and I was sailing with a guy called Alan. He's from Macrae and, um, Kerry wasn't interested in sailing in a world. He'd done a few and, um, he, you know, he just, you know, it's not what he was interested in. Yeah. But I was, I still was really keen to do it.

Alan, um, wanted to sail also, but his kids wouldn't lose weight or wouldn't train or wouldn't do all that sort of stuff. So I asked him would he be interested if I did it with him. Awesome. And, um, and so we had a year, 12 months, really strong campaign, sailing nearly every single weekend together, doing theory sessions and lots of discussion and, um, it was a fantastic experience. I learned heaps from him. It's good, you know, going or meeting somebody, you know, I knew the guy, but didn't really know him. Yeah. And, um, and that

was a huge challenge, not just for learning how to sail together and improving how we were going to sail, but we're making a commitment, both of us are married, both of us are going to be travelling overseas to Japan. Yeah. How is this going to work? You know, spending a lot of time together, making sure you're ticking all the boxes. Yeah. And coffee delivery. Thank you, Mitchell. Good for you. Same time around. I've done that now. Yeah. Hopefully we can keep it up. Thanks, man. Um, yeah, so like he was, his family wasn't happy, but that's, but that's kind of the really cool sense of adventure you've got.

Like you've just taken someone who you've only known or known slightly or known a little bit and spent 12 months with your campaign working towards achieving something pretty marvelous together. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, it was. And I need to give recognition to Kerry because there's not a lot of husbands who would be happy about that. Yeah. Good from him. Yeah. Very, very good. And all the other things that I've done. Yeah. And, you know, he's never said no or you can't do it, you know, whatever. What I guess has driven you or what is the reason why you've gone, yep, I want to do that?

Is it just a... Well, I know all the, um, there's, well, like the sailing, I always felt like I wanted to learn more because I started, I didn't started learning sailing when I was 36. So I was, you know, a non-sailor, absolutely non-sailor, non-swimmer. So that was late and the other doing the walks of the world was because I was, um, talking to a guy and he said he had done this walk, Mount Kilimanjaro, and he'd done these others. And I said, oh, this sounds really, really interesting. He said, yeah, one of my goals is to do all the major walks of the world.

It's an amazing goal. It's an amazing goal. And I was just talking to him and he said that, and that's perhaps my interest. Awesome. That's what I want to do. That's what I'm going to do. And I knew, I felt I could do that because I've jumped all over the place here. But through canoeing, I met this most amazing woman, Gillian Wild, and she's got an amazing adventure husband who's just over the top there adventurous. But we had a lovely friendship together and she was a really capable and done lots and lots of overnight hiking. So through her, we, she and I started experiencing everything.

Yeah. Yes. What's your, what are the, I don't want to ask for one because I think there's probably lots of them, but what are the five, five best walks you've ever done? Oh, five. Give me five. Oh, Kilimanjaro. Talk me through that story. Patagonia. Talk me through Kilimanjaro. We'll get to the other four. Oh, Kilimanjaro. Well, we did Kilimanjaro because Adam was turning 30 and that was his birthday present. Awesome. We did a walk with him. That's pretty cool. What was the walk like? Because that's something I want to do. It's definitely, it's definitely on my list.

Yeah. Well, do the whiskey one because if they call it the whiskey because you know, you savor it and you go a bit slower, you know, you just don't drink it down, you just do it slowly. And if you do that one, then you take more time and you climatise better. Yeah. How long did it take you? Eight days. Eight days. Awesome. I was just like, I always shall remember the start, you know, we've got our pack on, you know, we're ready to go and ahead of us, there's this huge group of people carrying stuff,

tents and food and that was all, I just thought, I normally just carry a pack and go somewhere and we've got this entourage of just people and we start up this really steep hill and there was a, you know, you think, shit, this is going to be hard and we've only just started, what's this going to be like? And then the first night, we're out there and the tents are set up and everything's there, they're carrying a portaloo for us, a canvas, so they had this canvas. They could have just had a little shovel. They

could have had a little shovel, but then they said they can't because there's so many tourists on the route, it would, you know, not be very long before. It only takes a couple to stop following the rules to a T and then... Yeah, and the number of people and the, you know, the crappy record. So besides, that was just having, we had a tent, they had a card table, they had chairs, they had all this sort of stuff that we sort of needed for that and that's why I had so many people. And you'd be used to the bare basics when you did your walks?

That's right. And so, and they put up your tent, you didn't even have to work with your tent. That's, you know, that sort of part of it, I think was a big part of the wow, this is another country, you know, we're paying a lot of money so that they can work. Yeah, and it's, and you feel, you've probably, I know I wouldn't, I'm sure you'd probably feel the same. You're almost guilty or bad that they're lifting, carrying stuff for you, but then you've got to kind of check back to the fact that you're paying for them and kind of driving their economy and allowing them to have work.

So it'd be a tough one, it'd be kind of a mental dilemma, I think for me. And some of them wearing city shoes, like city, you know, business shoes. And not proper, you know, here we've got all this proper gear, you know. And they're just kicking around in whatever they can put on their feet. And then they're carrying all this heavy, heavy load on top of there. And we're struggling to carry, you know, what we're carrying. And then, but the walk itself is, it was a bit cloudy, so we didn't have great vistas as well. But it was just, there's lots of moonscape type walking in the rocks and I think always those walks are just, you have a rhythm.

It's not meditation, but you just, you get into the flow and you just walk in. It's almost a different mindset because you're not thinking about, you know, whether you lock the door at home or what work you've got to do, you just, you're really in the moment. Yes. But yeah, I like that because you're not, it's not meditation because meditation's I guess a little bit different. It's almost like moving meditation. Yeah, yeah, you just sort of move along and you're going to get to the next spot and you know, and it's hard and your shoulders hurt or, you know, things need to be readjusted or you're cold, it's cold, it gets really cold up there.

All of those sort of things, but the memorable part of the walk is the actual climbing the mountain on them. And so they, we were walking with this, as it turned out, we were so fortunate. There was Adam and I and a British mum and her daughter. Awesome. And so the chances of that, but she was hopeless, hopeless. The mum or the daughter? The mum, she was so slow. Not all mums are like you, mate. I was thinking you wouldn't go and do this walk if you hadn't done some training and she talked about the training and it sounded like walking around just the streets.

So she was hopeless. So they, we went to bed early, but as soon as it got dark, then they woke us at midnight. We packed our tent and we had some hot chocolate and then we started walking for the summit and they were going so slow. Is that so you can get up there for sunrise? Yes. And so they're going so, so slow and said, oh, we're never going to get there if we go so slow. But it was all part of doing it in climatising and doing this last bit to the, to the summit. And so we're going up and it is super, super steep in that, in this part of it.

And it's, it's snowing, the snow is really deep, you're getting, you know, you're cold. You can't, I'm too, it's freezing cold. So they even helping and taking off the gloves and putting some chocolate in our mouth. So they're all food or doing us. And and I was struggling and there's one bit, you know, it's just slipping. You'd go up one and you'd go down one. Yeah. And you just weren't going anywhere. Yeah. You're just really exhausted. How did you work through that? I guess? Altitude sickness. Adam, Adam was really good. He, he was like come on cheese, come on, I'm the old cheese.

Great. I love that. And I said, come on cheese, you can do it cheese, keep going. I said, give us a song Adam, sing us a song then we can. So in this high altitude, then Adam's trying to sing a song to keep us going. So it was, it was just fun, that was really fun. And just the last part before, I don't know what time of day, night it was before we go to the summit. They stopped us and they gave us some Red Bull, I think it was Red Bull because it's got all the caffeine to get us to, you know, I like that.

It was the most disgusting drink in 10, 15 minutes. We're all vomiting up the Red Bull because it just, you know, it's just not what you want. We were doing okay before that. Yeah. Just a little bit of water would have done that drink. Yeah. That's all it was. Yeah. And so then we get to the top and the sun came up and it was, it was just absolutely amazing. It was really, really good. It's cool. I think that's really, it's really important that you've kind of gone through all the struggles that you went through

to get up there because I think a lot of people sit, sit at the bottom of the mountain and look up and then want to be at the top straight away and then want to, you know, whether, like whether it's a metaphor for life or business or business or work or relationships or whatever, everyone wants to kind of just go, yep, hang on at the top. But I think there's a real beauty in just enjoying the journey and enjoying all the struggles that come with it. Because if it was a train ride to the top or a tram ride to the top, you wouldn't enjoy it like you did.

No, no, not at all. Yeah. Because it would have just been, oh, I'm here, you know, it would be anywhere in the world as well. Yeah. When you have to get on your two legs. I think the other thing, which we didn't realise had happened at the time, is to savour that moment and just be, you know, you can, we're busy taking photos, doing all that sort of stuff. What we didn't do was spend enough time just being there, just being, you know, really reflect on that time. And they, now we know why, it's because they were hurrying us to get off the mountain.

They said there was another storm coming through, we need to get off the mountain. But it wasn't really, they were really clever about getting the tourists the next wave of walkers coming through. Yeah. So they can have it to themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really important. I try and make sure that whenever, and I haven't done anything as awesome as that yet. I'm going to South America next year, which I'll hopefully get a few of those awesome moments where I try and sit down and just take a couple of breaths and just smile and enjoy it.

Because it's, especially when you put that work in it, it's a pretty amazing feeling. Yeah. It is really important. I think that's what, as I've got older, that's what, you know, I probably didn't do enough of, you know, just really, I enjoyed where I was and I enjoyed the process, but I didn't sort of say stop and just really, really reflect. Yeah. Yeah. You've been go, go, go all the time. Yeah. You know, and you finish that, you get home and you enter the next, you know, whatever thing that you needed to do, but the, it's the walk down from the mountain, which I had no idea was going to happen, what it was.

So you finish, it's, you know, about six o'clock in the morning and then we walk then till five o'clock that afternoon down and it was, we were walking a lot of the times through an old creek bed over rocks and boulders and rough, scrambly stuff and we started walking at midnight. So you've been walking for 20 hours. Yeah. And it was rough and horrible and hard and terrible and the, this English woman, she just got further and further and further behind. In the end, they had to pay some local villages to take all her gear

and then they, two other people went up and had to get a torch cause now she's, it was really, really late and was in the dark and she, she was just taking one step at a time. Yeah, that's pretty scary. She was totally stuffed. But it's, oh kids, if you're about to go on a big hike, make sure you train, make sure you make sure you're in a physical, physically capable position before you do it. Yeah. Cause it'd be pretty scary, especially for a daughter, like if she's worried about her mum and things like that. Yeah.

Yes, that's right. But you know, the, the guys, the guides were really fantastic. They're really, really good. I'm sure they'd see it a bit. They must. They must see that. But I just don't know how, um, people can do things without feeling, having a certain level of fitness because you're not going to enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. And I think you've got to earn the right to do those things. You've got to have put in the work and things like that. Yeah. Talk to me about Patagonia because this is basically all for me because you're just going through my bucket list, all the stuff you've already done.

Yeah. Well, I did the, um, the W circuit it's called, um, and, or the, sorry, I did the O, um, which is means the whole mountain range from start to finish. If you do the W you're going through all the major peaks, but then lots of tourists can access that. And so you've got lots of other people around where if you do the O you get into areas that you can't, and it's just spectacular views, those glaciers, um, that I just shall always remember. And, but again, I had this really good fun experience. Um, it's, I said, I had to start at Porta Natalis is where I had to meet the guide and the group that I was traveling with.

So, um, I get there and I meet the guide, um, Polo, his name is, and he said, well, um, I've got some news, there's, you're the only one on the walk. And I thought, oh, so does that mean you're canceling? Because like, that's a huge, um, expense and said, no, no, no, wait, it's just you and I, are you going to be comfortable with it? And I said, yeah, I think so. That's all right. I didn't know. You know, you don't know, give me somebody. And um, so he, so that's what we did. We went off together, and I'll tell you the whole, that was really funny.

He then said to me, well, it was just you and I, do you want to share the same tent? And me being me said, oh yeah, okay, that's all right. Making friends. That's right. And then my sister that night said, you don't want to do that. You might want to get up in the middle of the night. You don't want to, you know, you don't know the person, you don't know what it is. So next thing, we didn't share the tent, but I got this huge two person tent, which we know is plenty of space and then Polo had a single, just little micro light and he had, and he carried all the food that we needed.

He did all the cooking. Good for him. I have never been looked after like that in my whole life as much as Polo did. He would go, we get to a campsite, he would put the tent up, or first, no, before he put the tent up, he would sit me up and he would have some olives and cheese and biscuits and he'd sit me down and I'm all comfortable and we've walked all day. And then he goes and sets the tent up, he goes and cooks dinner, you know. Good. And you can just keep back and relax.

Absolutely. There's one day he said to me, you've got that book you're reading, aren't you? And I said, yeah. He said, go and get it for me. Oh, okay. And so I got my, and he said, bring me a lilo, you know, bed mat. So I brought the bed mat and the book, you know, and I didn't know what he was talking about. And he said, now I want you to go and find the bestest place in the world. And just go and read. Just go and read. Like, he just gave me permission. Isn't it

silly how you've got to ask for permission, but he gave me permission just to really be there, where we were in these most wonderful places of the world. That's amazing. And I didn't have to think, oh, I should start dinner, or I should be helping. You could just be in that moment. Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. And I hadn't ever experienced that. And I hadn't, you know, realized, yeah, giving yourself permission. I'm always asking, I'm not asking, feeling I should contribute, you know, clean up, do whatever it is. Yeah. I get that. And I didn't really, really just be there.

And I just, so we just had this best time. That's amazing. I think it's really important to be able to allow yourself to just disconnect and just focus on right now and not worry about having to cook dinner or having to set up a tent or something like that. Like, it's pretty amazing. Like, I was talking, I sent a message to all my staff a couple of days ago, I'm just like, I just want to make sure that all of you guys, if you're not going away over the next couple of weeks for Christmas, that

you're at least planning your next holiday so that you can, because I think making sure that we all take time for ourselves, even if we don't want to. Like, I don't like taking a break, but I've forced myself to, and it sounds, it probably sounds a bit obnoxious, but I've forced myself to book holidays because I want to be at work all the time. And that holiday, whether it be a hike or a one-day hike to Wilson's Prom or up in Dandenong or something like that, that allows me to disconnect from work. And I think that not enough people allow themselves to do that.

Disconnect from their responsibilities and just focus on surviving and just being truly important. It is, isn't it? Yeah. And uncluttered and just being, you know, not shops, not stuff, yeah. And just enjoying the world for what it is. Yeah. And that's what I learned from Paula. And so I think from each of my trips – How long did you spend with him? So that was a ten-day. Ten-day. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it was. That would be an experience that not many people would have ever. And because he's done it so many times, he knew the

route and he knew so much about the geology and the geography and the history and, you know, I mean, we just, all of those things – oh shoot, it's a challenging walk. You know, it was howling, howling, gale on the pitch, like on a ridge. And I'm not very heavy and they're my pack. And it was just blowing me down, so I'd have to crap. One point, I had to hang onto Paula's back on his pack so that I didn't get knocked either. So windy. So I didn't get knocked either. So scary. So it's really scary.

So you go from windy, then you've got this snow up to your knees. And you're, you know, ploughing through up to a mountain top. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. And, you know, just there's lots of dangerous bits, but it's not necessarily dangerous, dangerous, but it is pretty big days, long days. A lot of walking. A lot of walking. A lot of time for thinking and then zoning out and not paying attention for a couple of hours, which I love that feeling when you just stop thinking and you're just one foot in front of the other.

Yes, and you just go into that sort of rhythm, but, you know, we had, I had, because of Paula, you know, he had all the food you ever wanted and he carried and had all the, so that made it easy for me, really, you know, in what we're doing. And he was just this amazing, amazing sort of guy. That's awesome. Couldn't have been better. Walking number three. We'll go, we'll go through three because I've got other stuff I want to ask you. Oh, the other one would be the south coast of Tasmania. Ooh, so you fly in there to Mallaluca and, and then you walk for eight days along the south coast walk.

So there's no mobiles, no satellite connection, there's nothing. So if you, if you stuff up, you're in trouble, you've got to just wait for somebody else to come along and then for them to walk out to say, get a helicopter in or something scary. That's right. And there was a couple of guys who were running it. You know, they had started off it just before first light and were doing it in a whole day and you know, they could have slipped so easily. Like it's just really, really hard. There's one of the hardest parties at

a spot called the iron bounds and you get up at about five and you start out and again, it's, you know, getting to that summit and he's just going up and up and up. There's just unrelenting going up and up and up. That's why they're called the iron bounds and again, you get to the top and there's, you know, whether it's raining or windy or there's always going to be something that's not a perfect, you're not going to get your perfect view after you've done all that, you know, walking. Yeah. But again, it's just being

in that place, you know, and I did this with Jillian Wilde and I would have never, ever, that was my first big one, you know, and, and doing it with Jillian. So you're able to find that person to pull you along. And what I learned from her is that everybody else, you've been on walks when people get up early, get going, walk all day and, you know, probably walk 15, 20 kilometres in the day. Then they make camp, eat dinner, next day fall asleep, repeat, repeat, repeat. And so we didn't do that. We every second day we would have a half day off and we both took books and we'd share the book.

Ah, nice. So that, you know. So you could talk about it? Yeah, you could talk. Oh, we didn't necessarily, but we meant we had two books to read. So we had things and we would have then a half day when we just lie on the river or beside the ocean or go for a swim or whatever we would. So again, we enjoy being there and that's what I learned from her, you know, as well. If you go, go, go all the time you miss it and then I think that allowing yourself to stop you remember

why you're actually doing it in the first place, which is just to experience a different part of the world and, and, and treat yourself to something that you haven't done before. Yes, yeah. And it's a pretty simple thing, but it's hard to, and I find it hard to stop and slow down when I'm hiking sometimes, but it's really important just to go, you know what, stop, breathe, have lunch, enjoy this magnificent place you are. Yeah, yeah. And that's exactly, exactly right. Like you've, you've done all that planning to get there, to fly in, which sounds, you know, you're flying in to start a walk, that's pretty, that sounds really good.

It does. And, and the first time I heard that, I thought, oh, that's really good, that's what I'm doing. So that was, for that reason, you know, it was a tough walk, it was a, you know, heavy walk. But we had these beautiful moments when we're just there and so if you haven't ever done the south coast walk and the isolation of it and... It's on the list now. Yeah, do that, it's really, really good. My list is getting bigger, quicker than I can tick things off, but it's okay, it's okay. What about Spain? Oh, yeah, I didn't mention that one, yeah.

I've been told to ask you about Spain. Oh, yeah. Do it by yourself. Yes, I do it by myself. What was, what was different doing it by yourself compared to doing the trips with Adam and Polo and Jillian? Well, Spain was hard because I didn't speak Spanish. Yeah, well that's probably one part of it. It was, but I, it was, it started off pretty tough when I was by myself, I didn't speak Spanish and it just sort of started on the walk and I really wasn't sure how it was going to work out. But I

happened to meet up over a beer, one on the first night, with this group of four, and one guy spoke English and the other spoke, you know, no English and I spoke no Spanish. So I just joined in with them. Awesome. So that was fine because then they told me, you know, we came to ordering food or stuff, you know, they just did it and I just paid whatever I had to do. So I really wasn't by myself. I was with these. You met some new people. I met some new people and, and then we had this, you know, really good time and it was great.

So if I hadn't had met them and had to struggle with their language and what I was doing, I think it would have been, it wouldn't have been nearly so much fun. But you might've met someone else or you might've met someone else. Yeah, might've met another group or did something else. And that's a thing, like I've never travelled solo. I was very close to doing Everest Base Camp by myself this year, but I didn't do it for a couple of different reasons, but that's kind of the plan for next year. And I want to

be able to say I did it by myself and met a bunch of people there because we're going to meet people wherever you go in the world. You're going to meet people. And I think that there's always going to be someone that wants to help. Yes. And I think that allows you to kind of fly by the seat of your pants a little bit and just hope that someone's going to be there to help you. Yeah. And I never thought that would, you know, I didn't expect it and it didn't win. And that's exactly. That's almost the best part about it.

Yeah. Yeah. And without them I wouldn't have been able to, to do it. So it was really, really, really good. And yeah, that was just, they were fun and great drinkers and, you know, lots of beautiful beers and it was, but it was hot, it was really hot. And but how I came to do that one again, somebody talking to a friend, she and her partner had done the walk and they started in the south and went north, not the traditional east west. And she said it was better because it wasn't as touristy and that would be my attraction to doing that.

But the disadvantage of that is that there wasn't many places to stay. And so you had to walk the 20 or 25 kilometres every day to get to your next. You had to load up and leave early and get in late and have big days. That's really cool. You said before that none of that's, none of this, not much of the stuff you've done is crazy. What is the craziest thing you've ever done? Oh, I think going whitewater paddling when I'm a non-swimmer. Yeah, that's fair. And I'm not very good and I'm not a very

good paddler, you know, I would capsize and, you know, I couldn't roll up and, you know, and so Kerri is, you know, there's lots of times I've put myself in lots and lots of danger and so that is going whitewater paddling and not being a swimmer. Yeah, that's pretty scary. It's pretty scary. Even, you know, even sailing is not nearly as scary because there's usually somebody else around and, you know, they can pull you out of the water and all that sort of stuff. So, you know, you don't really. But then the whitewater stuff's pretty hectic, can get pretty hairy.

Very, very, very. Have you had any close calls? Oh, yeah. Yes, yeah. So, you know, I was, I'd capsized, had gone down a few rapids, you know, just bouncing down them and, but anyway, Kerri, all the other people that were there got me out and pulled me out but, and I don't remember all of them, but there were lots of times, you know. Yeah. I did it. Yeah. I'm sure there were plenty. Now, you've recently had a little addition to your family. Yes. Little Sequoia. Yeah. How old is she now? It's three months. Awesome. Awesome. What's it like being a grandma?

Being the world's fittest grandma? Yeah. Well, I've got to stay fit because I'm going to walk and run with her. I'm going to do things with her. I don't want parents around. I want to inspire her. So she remembers, she remembers me as a fit, strong, when it's so... I'm sure she will. Obviously, for people in the podcast, I've just been diagnosed with Parkinson's. Pretty recent, yeah? Yeah. And so here I am, running, bloody fit, doing everything, you know, that you're going to... Well, you called me like two weeks ago and said, "Hey, I can't train today.

What am I doing?" You were doing the great big bike ride. That's right. As you do. Yeah. That was pretty cool. Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Yeah. So, yeah, I haven't given up. But yeah, my little Sequoia, she is the... I always thought grandparents will be all besotted by their child or, you know, get real. It's not... But you understand it now, right? I understand it. I understand it. And she gives me joy where I'm struggling to find joy. Yeah. And she gives me joy. And, but yeah, she's going to be a lovely, beautiful, gorgeous woman.

She only will be. She'll be independent and capable and... She's got a pretty amazing tribe around her. She has, hasn't she? Some adventurous humans. Yes. Yeah, I think she's going to experience more in the next 10 years than most people in their entire lives. Yeah. So she's been on four flights, you know, come from LA. She's in Sydney now. You know, she's been on the beach. Jet setting. Yes. Yeah. And we've taken her swimming. She's been taken to the beach. Oh, she's just been everywhere. Yeah. So she's absolute joy. It's just the joy of, and

seeing Adam and Jane, such gorgeous parents, you know, just being beautiful parents, and it gives me a lot of joy about how, you know, I didn't... I've, you know, raised Adam, and then he's found this partner who he just loves to death. And she's the most wonderful woman, all of it, you know. I think there's a time in your life when, you know, we're talking about reflecting on the mountain. Yeah. It's now, you know, reflecting on being a parent a little bit. And it's just, I just love seeing them all together. It must be a pretty amazing feeling.

Yeah. And everybody wanted to go camping and... Yeah. Well, I think that's something that not a lot of families can do. Just take a week and spend it together, like at Wilson's Prom, pretty amazing part of the world. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys were able to experience all that together. And wanted... Yeah. And we all want it, you know. We just love... That's what we love doing together, and... And that comes from you and your sense of adventure, because you've instilled that into Adam and Katie. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, to go camping is much better than, you know, going motelling or some resort or...

Yeah. 100%. Only all of those sort of things. Yeah. And you can run right on the Tidal River campgrounds. Yeah. And I, you know, I did that as a child too. That's where we went. I was one of seven. Yeah. And, you know, that's where we went, camping heaps and heaps and heaps. So it brings back lots of gorgeous memories. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty cool. So did you have like a big chunk of your life, like you obviously grew up camping and doing those kind of things where you just didn't do that stuff? Or you still kept doing that throughout your life, all the camping and adventure and stuff?

Because you said you kind of joined the gym when Adam was born and started from there. Did you? Yeah. Before that, I was just traditional. Yeah. You know? So I was one of seven, very strong Catholic family. And we'd go camping, but not no real, and I wouldn't, they're not adventures, it's just what you can take seven kids camping, you know, in a caravan. So there was nothing that was really different, but what was different is growing up in the sixties and, you know, mum was a great mum and, you know, looking after us. But I rebelled, rebelled against, I want to be everything she's not, I'm going to be independent.

I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be just looking after kids all the time. I'm going to do my own thing. And that was really powerful for me growing up. My brothers and sisters not, they didn't have that, but I was second eldest and I was determined to do, be different. I was not going to be the same old looking after being a parent, but I didn't know what that was. And so, you know, I went to uni, you know, just working, did all those, had Adam. And it was once I was a

single mum then that I thought, I'm going to do, I'm going to take this opportunity now to do those things that I thought I wanted to do. That's pretty amazing. And that's sort of those things that came, you know, if I hadn't ended up single mum, that wouldn't have happened. It just stayed as, you know, a new job and you're doing a job, got your friends. I don't think I would have ever taken what I inspired as a teenager, wanted to be something really different. I like that. And it's, it's cool that you're able to

identify that now, like I said, reflecting on, on everything and it kind of sets you up to, to experience, keep experiencing everything like you have been. Because like, from my point of view, you certainly inspire me to, to do all of this, this amazing fun adventurous stuff. Yeah. Sitting here, I'm just like, I just want to book my next trip, even though I'm going to Tassie next week. I do a couple of little hikes. Yeah. They're pretty cool. That's right. And it doesn't have to be, you know, one a year or not even one a year.

Just when you can. But, you know, your plan, you know, the big things, maybe with work, you can only do it once every second year, you know. Nah. I've got like three times a year. I've tried to anyway. But I think that's like a lot of people and I've found these say they want to do certain things and then don't actually take the steps to do it. I try and if I say I want to do something, try and book that holiday. So then I've got to go, well, I've got three months to figure out how it's going to work money wise and time wise and how I'm going to get away from work and things like that.

And I think that's allowed me, like I've got four holidays booked for next year without like before I've even thought about it. So. And you go and do those things that you love. Yeah, exactly. And I like how it's going to work, not sure yet, but I'm going to work out. Yeah, it always works out. It does. You know, like all the things I've done, you know, eventually it works out. You know, you just want to make that commitment, you'll be there. Yeah. And you can kind of move heaven and earth to make sure it works really well.

You just need to bucket list of, you know, which walk or where are you going? You know, you have New Zealand's gorgeous, you know, all this place. Did that this year. Yeah. Yeah, it was two of this year. It's a pretty amazing place. We spent on the crazy and exciting thing. We walked up one of the mountains adjacent to Mount Cook and stayed like we hadn't planned it. So we had like runners and things like that and it was snowing and we got to the top and we stayed in the little hut, like just slept on the boards because we didn't have a bed.

But it was an amazing experience and because we wanted big, it was awesome, it was amazing. And like the moon was out, stars were out, we're sitting there, me and Reece, and just looking out at the glaciers and going, this is incredible, this is amazing. And that's something that we just went, yeah, let's do it, let's experience it. And that's what you've done over and over again. What are the, what do you want to, what are the things you want to achieve now? What's next? Because I'm sure it's going to be pretty incredible. Yeah, well, probably that's, yeah, I haven't got a what next and that's probably- But that's okay.

I had, you know, was going to be in New Zealand, a bike ride on the rail trails in New Zealand. Awesome. Just with some friends, but I'm not sure now how much I'm allowed to push, or can push my body or should push my body. That's when I, you know- That's the hard bit. Yeah. And if I burn up all this energy, do I make it, do I make my, you know, I don't want Parkinson's to define me, but I really don't know that. It's going to be a big learning curve, I guess. Yeah, well,

I don't know, yeah, because like even Katie, you know, she's suggesting, you know, us doing this podcast and she's really proud of the things I've done. Yeah, she should be. And, you know, not just doing something really different and, you know, she's, and I, that is who I am as well. Definitely. Well, I'm struggling with this, so I was going to say where I'm heading is that this is what it makes me the saddest part of having Parkinson is actually, is not potentially being able to have those goals and have those physical challenges and doing things that I might, you know, really want to do.

Yeah. And I don't want to be ordinary. Please, you're never going to be ordinary. I know, but I know that, you know, I won't let that happen to me, but I'm worried that that's what will happen because I don't know how quickly this will progress. Yeah. I don't think it's just a bit for you. It seems like you're getting a really, you're doing all your research and you're trying things and you're talking to people and you're actually allowing yourself to experience what you're experiencing and you're not kind of going, nah, it's not happening. I'm just

going to keep smashing myself, but at the same time, you're, you're, you're in a really cool, I think you're in a really good mindset of, you know, I'm just going to deal with it as it comes and it might not mean, it might mean that you can't do a lot of the things that you want to do, but it might mean that you can do a lot of other stuff that you realize you want to do. And the goalposts just move, which is probably accepting that it's accepting that, you know, the goalposts have moved. Yeah. And there's going to be some days where you don't accept it.

And some days you do. And yeah, I want to go on a walk with you one day, we should, we should book something awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's some, you know, again, New Zealand's quite manageable to do that. Yeah. It's pretty close. And it's pretty close. And you know, we've got some great places to go and you've got the huts to stay in. Yeah. All that sort of stuff. Yeah. Even, even stuff around Victoria. It's, it's crazy how much stuff we've got now back out. Yeah. Like, I'd love to jump into the Grampians in ages and ages.

Yeah, I haven't been, I haven't been for a few years. We were trying to go, we were trying to go a few months ago, but it was one of the busy weekends and not a chance, between a thousand people there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I went one time. I was, anyway, there's a story while I was there by myself doing it and I'd left the sleeping mat and my sleeping bag at home. As you do. As you do. Yeah. So probably the two things you need the most. That's right. That's what you need. So I just got newspaper and I went to the op shop and got a blanket and that's what I slept on.

I love that. That's amazing. I thought, why am I doing this? Did you have a good sleep? Not really. No. But it was an experience? Yeah, it was an experience. And you can tell the story, yeah? Yeah, that's right. And you do it. And there was this one time I slept on newspaper. So that's when you sometimes are really emotional and you just leave home, pack your bags and not really think about what you're packing. Yeah. You've got two pretty amazing kids, right? Yeah, I have. I'm the best. What was it like watching them both do their first Ironman together?

Oh. Scary? Yeah. Yeah, nerve-wracking? Yeah, scary in that I just hope they don't stuff their bodies. As a mum, that's all you, but so proud of the effort that it took to get there. And then to execute on the day and get it done. Yeah, mental capacity to overcome that. Yeah. It's far from an ordinary feat. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. People look at a marathon and be like, "Wow, that's incredible." And then add a marathon in the water and a marathon on the bike and it's pretty hectic. Yes, it is. So yeah, very proud of what they've done, but I just think to do Ironman is so, so tough and it just takes so much out of their body.

Yeah. I think it's not something that you can consistently do over and over and over again and not have to pay it back somehow. Yeah, yeah. That's probably how I feel about it. Exactly. Yeah. And I want them to be, because my mantra to them is that it's okay if you're still running at the same age as me, then that's okay. You're going to make sure you're still able to. That you're still able to. Yeah. It's a hard one and I think it's a balance because it's part of your brain, especially for Katie for one, she just wants to run.

She wants to run. She wants to do all this stuff, but she's got to check herself sometimes and I think any athlete goes through that stage where it's just like, "Well, maybe I'm not ready to do this." And it was pretty cool to see her do a half the other day and to achieve it and she was pretty sore for her. I think she's still sore, but it was an achievement and it's something that she worked incredibly hard for and it was pretty cool. She does, doesn't she? I'm always amazed about how she tries so hard, but her body lets her down.

It does, yeah. I'm not sure, just it's her body and everybody's got something different that's happened, but she keeps pushing through and wanting to- She's a pretty inspiring, very inspiring human and I guess, again, my Monday mornings of late have been you and Katie at 7 a.m. for an hour. It's a good way to start the week and it gives me a little kick up the butt and make sure I'm doing cool stuff. Yeah, yeah. Now, Katie said that you might not want to talk about this, so we'll see how we go, but what have you learned through raising Katie and how she's struggled with mental health since being a teenager?

What's that taught you? Oh, it was tough to me. Yeah, I can imagine. She was a really tough, I wish we really knew then what we now know. I don't know what it's taught me, I do know, it's just how to, as a parent, you're hopeless, you're feeling hopeless because you don't know how to help and whatever you say is wrong. Dealing with teenagers is probably hard enough, as is. Yeah, and Katie was just, she'd gone from being this such an easy, easy child and just fitted in, it wasn't any problem at all and Adam

was quite the reverse and then she had all these changes at school, friendships were breaking down, nothing was ever right, and that's become a pattern in her life too and that's something I'd never experienced, I had not come in contact with, I had no knowledge about what to do. I'm not sure, you know, what it's taught me other than, yeah, don't know how to. That's completely fair, I think it's a hard thing when you feel helpless and I can only imagine what it would be like to feel helpless as a parent but I think it's,

I think it's credit to you and Adam and Kerry to be able to have that supportive environment where she's able to work through it and I think she has good days and bad days now but she's always been able to, and like she told me, she's always been able to have that support network around her and look up to you and have that drive to look after herself, which is pretty special. Yeah, yeah, but you know, she's done it really, you know, self-taught and she's done it, yeah, I don't think it's, we're there, we're a

back up, she knows we've always got the backstop but it is sometimes like a steam train, you know, it's gone through and it's gone through, she's got it off the station and she's okay but we're still on the train. Yeah, that's a heavy analogy, I like that, yeah. Alright, book club, 30 years, talk to me, because I was talking to a couple of guys at the gym the other day about starting a book club because I love books, my bookshelf's looking a bit sad at the moment because everyone keeps borrowing them but what, so first of all why did you start a book club and second of all why did you keep it going for 30 years?

Yeah, well, we're sitting around the sandpit, Katie's in the sandpit, we've got little babies, little toddlers, little two-year-olds maybe, not even too long maybe, and I said to the other woman, I just, my brain is, needs to be doing something, you know, this is, I was bored, you know, from having little ones and I said, does anybody want to join a book or with me? And so the other similar mateys around the sandpit said, yes, let's do that, and so with the CAE at that time you'd get a book list of all the books you

could choose and we joined to see the Council of Adult Education book club and that's how we did it, we just started from then because other women were also feeling bored out of their brain when nobody was talking about that, you know, we're talking about babies, you know, there's a limit to how many you talk about babies, and so that's how we started, we'd rotate month to month, you know, and we'd rotate the role of who was ordering the books and doing all that sort of stuff. That's cool. And every, yeah, the beginning of the year we'd...

Did you catch up once a month? Once a month, and the beginning of the year we would choose the 12 books or 10 books that we're going to read over the year and you just learnt, you know, it was about the different women, their style, we read poetry, we read novels, we read lots of different books that I would have never ever, and we had great discussions. That's cool. What was the format of the catch-ups, how did you do it, did you all just sit there in a circle and talk about what book you're reading or?

Not that book, that book that we had for the month, so we all had the book sample. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so that's why we joined CAE, because then they'd provide you the books. Then later on we found that the books were getting a bit boring and so we chose one we'd all agree to buy or borrow from the library or do something like that, so we changed over time. And we've had a death from the group, we've had, you know, babies being born, people coming and going. It was a little community again. Yeah, and

for many years our Christmas break-up was in the cemetery at Oakley, so we would sit on the tombstones and we'd, you know, toast or take a glass of wine to whoever were sharing our Christmas at the cemetery, so there were some sort of nice memories as well. That's cool. Yeah, it was just a good thing, it was such a good thing to do, to stimulate your brain, to start talking about other things other than children, that's really why it's still going now. That's awesome. That's really cool. I've got a bunch of little questions for you, you can be as brief or as long-winded as you want with these answers, but try and go first thing that comes to your head.

Who do you most look up to and why? Really Gillian Wilde, because she was the first person who really introduced me to being an independent woman and doing things that I, yes, I can do this by myself and we can do this. It's a pretty powerful thing when someone can inspire you to change your mindset like that. Yeah, and I think, you know, talking to each other now is reminding me of Gillian and the friendship that we had, that we don't see each other much now, make contact with each other much, you know, you know how you drift.

Definitely, but I'm sure if you did, when you do chat to each other, it's like nothing's changed. Yeah. When you've got a friend like that. Yes, that's right. What advice would you give a 15-year-old version of yourself? A 15-year-old version of myself is, I don't know how to, don't accept normal. Don't accept average, you know, you don't have to be average in the things you experience in your life and, yeah, look for those things that inspire you, yeah, inspire you beyond the normal. I like that. That's cool. We should make that into a t-shirt. That's cool.

Do you have a morning routine? Yeah, get up, go for a run or go to the gym. Get moving. I like it. That's it. What is success to you? Staying healthy. Perfect. And now, success is really having joy or pleasure, yeah, something about that joy and just having joy in your life. You know, when you've got an inner happiness, you know, that core. So it's becoming more centralised. It's more of a Buddhist sort of thing. Just being happy with being where you are, even if there's bad stuff happening, it's being okay with where you're at. Yes, and if I can manage that, then I think I've been successful.

Good, really good. What are you most proud of? Oh, my family. Good, great answer. Have you had a defining moment? One that you can think of, because I'm sure you've had lots? I can't say I've had a defining moment. No, I can't say. Your answer could be no, mate. It's your answers. Yeah, I don't think there's a defining moment. A lot of those times when I went whitewater paddling for the first time, that's probably a defining moment in that I realised, I want to do this sort of stuff. I want to be out there. I want to be something that's a bit different.

That's cool. So I think the whitewater paddling set me on that journey, and it has, really. Awesome. Do you have a mantra? No. Good. Last question. If you could invite three people to dinner, who would they be and why? Do you know, there's a recent one, her name's Mitzi. I work with her at Sacred Heart Mission, and I just get so much joy about being around her, but she's just got this smile, the way she interacts, the way she cares. I just think, I wish I could be like her, you know. She's just. I think you have that effect on a lot of people around you.

Oh, she's great. She's, yeah, so I admire Mitzi, and she's young, she's in her early 30s, and she's just really good. What was the question again? She would have dinner. She's one. She's one, and she's a great conversationalist, and she just invites people, she starts conversation. She's really good. And the other one would be, they're two girlfriends, but I'd love them together, it would be Pam O'Neill and Jill Reed, and two, you know, the closest, really close friends. Awesome. And, you know, they've got interesting things that they're seeing or doing that they bring to the conversation, and it's just that they contribute, and it's not just about them.

Yeah, they're genuinely interested in what's going on in your life. Yeah, yeah, what's going on in my life, but what's going on in the world, what's a good book to read, what's a good recipe, so what's... they're just, you know, they're really wholesome, wholesome people. Awesome. That's probably... I want to come to that dinner. Yeah. All right, last question for you. What's your favorite book? If you could recommend one book to everyone, what would it be? And I'm not taking 'I don't know' for an answer, because you've been in a book club for 30 years. Oh, there's, you know, like there's novels, are we talking about novels?

Anything. Anything. Just one book. One book that as soon as we're done, I'm going to go and buy. Oh shit. No, no, pressure's on. Pressure's, pressure's, pressure's. Pressure's. Now this one's been around for... it's just for... but the 'Seven Habits', Covey's book, Seven Habits. You've probably read it. Haven't read it? Well, that's a pretty big ancient for you. That's all right. I love ancient books. And it's just that, it's your philosophy of what are the habits, what are the things that you need to help understand yourself, but also how you connect with other people. And

so it's talking about these seven habits and which one's about staying centred and being true to yourself, but it does it in such a way that it's really accessible that you think, yes, I can do those sort of things and it gives you a way forward to achieve those habits of being at your core and being centred and understanding the person that you are. That's cool. I like it. Well, thank you very much, very, very much for coming on. You're an absolute superstar. Well, thank you. It's been a really interesting journey, discussion. I didn't know where I was going to go.

We've covered a huge amount of ground. Yeah, I think we might do seven or eight more just to keep it rolling. Thanks. Bye.