Automatically transcribed, so expect the odd wrong name or word.
It's like full Will Anderson style, just having a conversation and just edit it in. No editing? Straight in, Jared. No editing. It's the rules. Good morning. Welcome to a special collaborative podcast. We've got two of the greatest men of all time to my right and left. I've got the GOAT himself, Rick Mirabella of Runner's Fame. He's been on the Virtus podcast before. He also has a Runner's podcast, which I would highly recommend you listen to. This would be a simulcast, hopefully on both. So going worldwide and to my right, I have the junior GOAT, Lockie Wallace.
We're here to talk about me, funnily enough. This has been- It's not all about me. Oh, it's not all about you. Mostly about you. Mostly about me. The wheels have been turning in motion for a little bit of time regarding this podcast. We've planned to do it earlier or late in 2019, which would have correspond with Rick's stuff he was doing through November and December with his Above the Shoulders, which was a series of podcasts that deep dived into mental health and what are people doing in that space in his community. And I know it's
been a topic that has come up on numerous occasions in the Virtus podcast, which has been on a bit of a hiatus, but Wallace doesn't know what's going on with that. To be assessed. So I guess we're just here to talk about mental health and my journey through that because I had a pretty interesting 2019, a big year in terms of that space. And a lot of you probably read the article I put out on Wallace's platform, which was his weekly email. But I was also- Moo's musings that week. Moo's momentary music, which I think gained a lot of traction or the response that I seem to follow from it was people liked it.
And I think the more honest and open we can have with conversations about this space is really important. I think doing this outside of that whole Movember movement and opening it up to dialogue again because I think it gets squashed in for that month a lot and people then don't really continue on with it. And I think now it's January after all the silly season and those kinds of things. It's probably not a bad space to reopen that and tear that bandaid off again and reopen that wound. I guess the community definitely resonated with that
one because it was so honest and so raw, but I think because it's something that everybody needs or wants a platform to be able to talk about that stuff and it's not even just talk about it, but share it. So that format was a little bit different, it was real and it's something that impacted everyone that read it. So good for me. Thank you. All right. English was my worst subject. There was a few grammar and spelling errors in it, but I think old Grammarly didn't get a hold of it. He could have fooled me, Pulsi.
Thanks for that intro. That was really good. Hey, it is great to come down to Mornington and catch up with these boys. It has been on the cards for a while. Our Above the Shoulders segment was magnificent. There was four episodes of Very Courageous Men in that series, which was amazing, but we've got a couple of women coming on with the next block, which will be autumn for the runners stuff. But like Locky does, get some inspirational people on as well. And they always really, they're not scared to attack the big topics and I don't think it's that easy.
Are you okay, Jared? I'm all right, thank you. Jared needs some water. Richard. I don't think it's, I think what you said about January is a great thing. We make some promises to ourselves to look after ourself and just do the little things right. Like what are we going to do right in 2020 that's going to set us up mentally, emotionally and just for a much simpler and easier life in 2020. But by this time of the year, a lot of those good intentions have already fallen by the wayside. So I think coming on and
Pulsi courageously wrote that article and I'll also put it to the show notes and I'll also share it with my guys as well in Melbourne. But if you're not local, then I'm sure we can both put up to the show notes, guys, because it is a really powerful piece and it's just been so raw and courageous. So pretty much his podcast is just Pulsi's story, even though we made him introduce the first three minutes. It's pretty much all Pulsi. Me and Lock will just lead him in that direction and it will go in whatever direction it goes in.
Very organic. It's very organic. Organic is a nice word, but I'm telling you, the listeners that are listening that any of this resonates, you know there's always avenues for help and we'll put them on the show notes as well. But I promise you, if Pulsi's, we're only here to help thousands, tens of thousands of people because if he's going through it and I'm going through it, I like he's going through it, there's chances are I think it's four out of five, four out of four. Yeah, four out of four. I just had a meeting with
my psychologist today and she said one out of four people suffer from a mental illness in Australia and with what's happening in recent life in Gippsland and the southern coast of New South Wales too, I think that could bring up a whole range of emotions for people and I know people feel a bit anxious about the whole kind of situation we're in at the moment with that. So I think having those resources available to you and just being open and honest with each other, I think is really, really important. I know you've been on this
podcast a fair few times, you've hosted it, you've interviewed like I think twice, which are great listens, but take us back, I know about your Ironmans, your triflons, your marathons, your football. Take us back and just give us a bit of an overview of your own, I guess awareness of your own wellbeing and nothing at all physical this podcast today. So your own wellbeing at primary school, high school, through sport, all that kind of stuff. And then where did you start to get some trigger points that said, oh, maybe I'm not travelling as well as I'd like to be.
It's probably taken me to now really to really fully understand how I was feeling. It took me to this year to really say, I've got a problem, I'll put my hand up and I'll go see someone and talk to someone about this. But looking back now, I probably would have been feeling like this for a very, very long time. Like you could have pinpointed it through, maybe even high school back to like late stages of high school, which 18, which is 14, 15 years ago, like the feelings that I was having back then matched up or paired up with the way I was feeling now.
So to think about it as that, but we just, we weren't, I wasn't educated, it wasn't mature enough to understand that like when you grow, when we grow up through our generation, like something that was very, very taboo, it was obviously getting better, but there just wasn't that information and resources out there and it just never really came up. But some of the way I was feeling and the way I was feeling about myself in particular throughout those times, it clearly shows the same pattern that the way I was feeling prior to this past year in 2019.
So I couldn't say for sure, but it's probably been with me or a part of me for a large more of my life than it hasn't been, what I can remember now. - Are there any avenues that you took back then to make you like even give you some relief, slight relief or like whether they're healthy or unhealthy avenues? - Yeah, I guess looking back at it, probably I use sport as a bit of a, as a coping mechanism to be able to be involved in a team situation and being able to contribute. And I
guess that's a positive, being around your mates and those kinds of things, but I guess probably on the negative side, I probably ate with my emotions a little bit, and that's probably what led to me become the way I was back then. And everyone probably who's listened to the previous podcast knows that story and we won't draw down on that today, but yeah, I probably used to eat with my emotions a little bit to make me feel better and those kinds of things. So that was probably an unhealthy relationship with food, I guess that probably developed through that.
- Yeah, well, that's very, that's very normal and it's very, and it's certainly, lots of people get far, far less healthy, I guess, addictions and avenues to cope with that kind of stuff. As you grew up for the university days, the sport, the team sport went to the back burner. Tell me and Locke about your individual sporting pursuits, 'cause you definitely achieved a lot in a pretty short period of time, like you went very hard for three or four years. How was your mental health in that stage? And was there any times when you were
racing, running long, riding long, whatever, when you're in your own thoughts, 'cause I know I definitely do struggle with this and I've got a lot better as I got older, but how did you cope with certain intrusive thoughts or thoughts while you were racing? 'Cause it's a lonely sport, Tracy. - Yeah, yeah, it is. I guess through that time period of my life, I was focused on doing those things that I had achieved and I probably squashed all of those things away or they were probably hidden behind the fact that I was probably training so
hard and I was really pouring a lot of my energy into that kind of aspect of my life and not necessarily I was my happiest, I was probably just not focusing on what I needed to focus on back then, I was probably squashing a lot of these feelings back down there as well, back down within me, which is something I'd been doing throughout my whole life. But at that time, I was lucky enough to meet Jess and so that kind of, you have those endorphins of in your brain and when you meet someone that you love and you really get to know and you really develop that relationship, that kind of masked a lot of it.
Doesn't necessarily mean I was my happiest back then when I was racing or running or technically at my widest, I don't know. It was a good time in my life, there was a lot of good things happening, so that might have masked or just overridden what was actually down below a little bit. I know a lot of it for me and I've talked about it, a lot of it comes back to South Worth and how I feel about myself and I talk about with my psychologist placing expectations or having these unrealistic images or thoughts in
my head that sometimes that can manifest into the way I feel and that can put me down into that spiral a little bit, which you probably are aware of and you are yourself as well. Yeah, well I guess I was lucky enough to meet you at the end of that afterwards. Oh yeah, I kind of come out of that whole kind of big cycle, it was a big, oh it was stupid really. I looked back at it. You went ham for a few years and then… Ham for a year, yeah like I did two marathons
and Ironman in the space of what between Gold Coast which was in July and Melbourne Marathon was in April, off no, little to no endurance training and then two years later did another Ironman as well. So yeah, it was a big time, a lot of stuff that I did looking back now, I don't know how I achieved it. I think just to remind the listeners that you did very bloody well as well, so very good results as far as, especially of a fella who had done for 25 years, no endurance, zero endurance training. So it's not as if we've got a base here, so the times that Pulsi was running and finishing were very, very fucking good.
He should be very proud of that, but I was interested to hear what he said about, and this is so true I think of so many of us, it was a good time in his life, so much was happening from a chemical point of view, like Jess came on board, so he's met his fiancé, he's met all, oh sorry I've just married him off, he's met his life partner, sorry Jess. No editing. He's done, like he's two iron men, which is two more than most human beings on earth, some very fast marathons in that time,
some very fast 10k half marathons, look everything, aesthetics, all his stuff's great, he knows he's suppressing stuff, even if he doesn't, but he does now. I guess the happiness, like there's these achievements that go in one side, and it happens with a lot of athletes in any sport, or any high achievers really, and I guess it comes back to the old resilience project type stuff, like what is happiness, like is he happy, is he happy because he's successful at this, or is he just a bit of a bandaid, which is pretty, like I've got big hopes for Pulsi the next decade, like and when he actually gets to that level again organically, imagine the self worth then.
All the tools that he's cultivating now is going to put him well ahead of the person and the capacity he was, like already he's helped so many people in terms of opening up his own story. I guess I find it fascinating how going from being so flat chat with training and competing to that transition in your life to obviously the things that you would have suppressed would have started to open up and bubble up a little bit, how did your mindset change go from when you finished your last Ironman to I guess recollecting your identity a little bit into now?
To be honest I've probably struggled since that point, that's when I first started coming to Virtus, I think it was late middle of 2016 after Ken's Ironman and the great TK put me onto you and I was looking for something to do after that, so I came here and fell in love with this place and then jumped back in with runners and those kind of things. To be honest I'm still struggling with that now, that's a big part of probably why I kind of spiralled down to where I was in that time frame from that
middle of 2016 up until last year is I think it's really hard once and Rick said it before, I was proud of what I achieved but to hold yourself to that standard I feel like and I still do this a little bit is I hold myself accountable to what I've done in the past and to let go of that is really really difficult because you've set yourself almost a target or a platform that you know you've achieved and you should be there and we all know that that's probably not, I'm not a professional athlete, people
who listen to this are not and I think for a lot of people we fall into that trap of thinking that our best should be beatable as well but I think ideally I would love to get back to that point, I don't know if I ever would, it was yeah I don't know as I said before I don't really know how I got there but it just happened so quickly and kind of just the momentum built and I got through it and I was lucky not to get injured in these kind of thing, it was
very very strange but it's something that I still deal with today and like I always come back to saying you've got to stop holding yourself accountable to your past achievements. 100% and we're going on nearly four years since that last event but that's so normal so tell us about the last three years, you've been relatively consistent, I think your immune system and other stuff started to play up as well due to no doubt the emotional and mental health so tell us about, tell the listeners about the last three years and how you described your depression
in your blog which was so amazing and we'll get to all the diagnosis later but the description you use which I've got here but you can say it if you remember it, the fog, about the fog, oh yeah yeah that was unbelievable, it was an analogy, yeah a nice analogy, that's only probably only just knowing that now is that's what it feels like kind of thing like, not that then, it's just, you thought it was normal, it's just normal, yeah you thought and Jess ever since I met Jess it was, she's been telling me for
three or four years to go see someone prior to this like and I've said no this is normal this is life, it's alright and the down periods were starting to become longer and more frequent and then it just happened to be like that and like I was just like always struggling with these kind of things about just I remember telling Jess that I just wanted to be normal and these kind of things and I was holding myself accountable to things in the past and things I wanted to achieve in the future and I couldn't find
any ground between those two I think and I just continually spiralled down down down down and down in that self-worth and positivity and the way I was feeling about myself just got worse and worse and worse and it suddenly built to a point where and as stupid as it stands it was affecting my relationship with Jess which was number one, that should have been the first sign I should have gone and sought some professional help or seek some professional help, it took until where two pillars of my life which is your work life would probably,
it took me to that point when I thought I wasn't contributing to work and I was really battling at work to do things and finding it hard to go to work and I know some days for people people don't want to go to work and that's totally fine, I get it but for me I've always loved to go into work, it's an exciting job, it's dynamic, I was waking up some mornings and have them literally drag myself out of bed to just get there and just like my mind was all over the place and scattered just just driving to work and just not enjoying it anymore and I thought well shit there is something wrong here.
Was there a moment or a day or something you can remember back to an anchor where you kind of like okay there is something wrong and I need to seek help? It's actually, it's really interesting throughout this whole kind of period of trying to learn some things about it and Wayne Swash who does Pucker Up and he's been on a number of different podcasts does a lot of these talks and he's developed his business or his, I don't even know if it's a charity anymore or not for profit and he goes and talks in the corporate space about these kind of things and Jess was lucky enough to go see a couple of his programs.
He can clearly remember the time when he made the decision, knows the date, knows the time about how he felt. It doesn't really come across to me, there is one day at work where I kind of just broke down, I just asked, there's two girls, three girls at work I work with pretty closely in our team, direct team of the year 11s and 12s and I just, I think it was towards the end of the day and I just told them that I needed to speak to them, we've got a little adjoining small office and
I just told them that I hadn't been feeling great and I don't know what's happening and I feel like I'm letting you guys down and stuff like that and it was a very emotional talk and got really upset and it happened before a couple of times but I think it was more work related and it was a stress and I just needed time to just get on top of things and school work's been really positive and allowed me to do that a couple of times this year and so yeah, I think that moment really, really
started the ball rolling and I knew that I needed to go seek some help because I was in a pretty dark spot at that point in time. How long did you wait until you got the mental health plan and got in after that moment? I rang up the doctors, I don't know if it was that night or the next day to book in to see a GP, Jess had previously had gone seeing a doctor down on top of Main Street, Kathy Evans who said, Jess had a little bit of stuff with anxiety before and she
spoke glowingly of her and then she went and spoke to a psychologist for a little bit and she seemed to be really resonating with her in a positive way and that was where that kind of conversation of me going to see someone came from and I managed to book in with, I think even Jess might have booked me in for, I wasn't that keen, I just told Jess could you make an appointment for me and that didn't happen until the following Friday and that I think roughly happened on a Wednesday, I think, I can't remember
the actual timing of it all but I tried to get in as quickly as possible with her, she was only working, Kathy only works three days a week so it was a bit of a backlog to get through. But from that point in time I felt like I'd put the wheels in motion and I was still in a pretty dark spot at that time but almost a little bit of sense of relief come from that like just taking ownership of it and at the start of the journey and you know things will hopefully get better from there.
Yeah 100% with the process, are you with the same lady now? Yeah so I had, so I go into the doctors, normal doctors, regular doctors, as males we tend not to go too much so I've kind of bounced around between doctors to doctors for the last 15 years. So I went and saw Kathy, broke down in front of her to say I'm not feeling that great and she said straight away, diagnosed me with depression on the spot so she just knew she could read it, she could tell the way I was sitting even she said
like you know this is, you've got all these signs and symptoms that have got alarm bells ringing in my head kind of thing so and then diagnosed me straight away and then we're going to try on some medication, we're going to put you on a mental health plan which is a brilliant thing that I think the government have put in place as well. Yeah Televis is more about that because I think a lot of people get put off by if they're not sure, this could be totally fine to anybody that might be really struggling with
costing and stuff and how, not easy sorry but that conversation that broke down so many barriers for you has just opened up a whole new world for you. So with a mental health plan if you go to your GP they can activate that and then you're entitled to six heavily subsidised or even free sessions with a qualified psychologist and then you can go back and then ask for more and that's in a calendar year. So I did my 10 between that time and the end of the year, I recently just saw Kathy last week, got
a new mental health plan so now I've got 10 free sessions or six sessions again and then you have to activate the next four, six over every year and that's available to anyone through that kind of realm, you've just got to go see your doctor, Medicare, you've just got to ask, bulk bill doctor, doesn't matter, so that's available to anyone and if you are struggling at all or if you feel like you want to have a conversation with someone and it might not be depression, it might be anxiety related, anything to do then you just
want to try and sort it out, go see your doctor, that's your number one port of call and then they can filter you out to the available professionals and I've never looked at the cost of my sessions, I know that they're heavily subsidised, it got to a point at the end of last year where I made a decision, I was out of sessions but I think it was really good for me to continue to go see, so it's something that you invest in, we invest in a lot of other things and I think our health,
you guys both being in the industry, I think a lot of people spend a lot of money on other things rather than their health and there's so many people that don't even have health insurance and these kind of things in this day and age, which I find bewildering but that's a story for another day but you've got to invest in yourself and if it takes that and it costs then I think you've just got to do it because I know if I didn't and I said this to both Cathy and my psychologist at the end
of last year, I don't know what kind of spot I would have been at the end of last year if I hadn't gone and done it, so I'm very glad that I did. Your average week looking like at the moment, not the moment sorry, since you saw, so not Cathy but the psychologist, since you saw the psychologist, how's your average weeks been going, like you said, it hasn't continued to be this tsunami continuing to progress, you've kind of stopped in its tracks, you're a bit more aware of where you're at day to day. So I've
still had some down moments, I've got with my diagnosis, I've got a prescription for some medication, so I've taken anti-depressant, it's been a bit of a journey between that point and now to find the right one, I've tried two different medications and four different dosages, so it's been a bit of a, and I think no individual is going to be the same, so I think it's just a bit of a wait and see and the thing with the medication is that it can take four to six weeks for it to have an effect as well,
so you pretty much got to trust the process and just hope you find the right one or the right dosage that works for you as soon as you can, so that took from probably the first point till probably late at the end of the year where I really found my kind of right medication as well. That's a big thing for listeners, the medication it's certainly not taboo, all it does is take the edge off and allow a pulse to be pulsed, so if it takes three or four different medications and I know lots and lots
of elite athletes that are on different anti-depressants, anti-anxieties, so it just takes the edge off and it does unfortunately take some time to find the right one, but sometimes people get it straight away, so it's only taken you six to nine months, not even. Yeah, so four goes at it to really make sure it was right. Before we move off that stuff, it's important to know that different people do struggle to find the right psychologist, like Pulsi's got a great one. I've seen two different ones as well. So if you feel like it's not working, you go, you seek, five, six, seven, whatever.
You're in the- You're the driver. You're the driver. 100%. It's like anything, like if you, let's use a restaurant analogy, if you don't like going to a certain restaurant, you don't have to keep going there with a psychologist, you're not forced there, you're not strapped in, so if it's not working for you, you don't have that connection, then it's totally up to you to go find the right one. So there's plenty available around the Morning's Peninsula and in the Melbourne area for your listeners, Rick, as well. There's plenty out there. Your doctors and your GP will be able to recommend who they think is better, and it's like they're just finding the right match.
These conversations help as well, because people can talk to you and you can suggest yours, and I can suggest the one I've seen a few times, and we're able to open that up. The antidepressants are a tool, and you're certainly, everyone at home needs to understand that Pulsi isn't having this conversation from the finishing line, he's definitely still well and truly in the muck of it as well. What are the tools or the things that have helped the skills or things you've acquired over the last six, nine months that you feel as though have helped you not deal with it, not overcome it, because you're definitely still working on it, but deal with it and help you.
So the psychologist is, it's hard work, there's been times in there where I've been really emotional and come out feeling really drained, and it's tough. Having not done that whole kind of counseling kind of thing ever, you don't know what to expect and you really got to make yourself vulnerable in those kind of spaces to get what it's worth. So I've done a couple of different things and we've looked at some cognitive behavior therapy, and to just give you this, and I use a Wayne Swash analogy, he says, to just give you tools for your toolbox to help you just get through what you're dealing with every day.
And there's little things, and I remember I went away to Tasmania with a group of friends to watch the footy down there with my partner Jess and a large group of friends and I had a bit of a meltdown at that point in time. One thing that resonated with me down there is that I just completely had a bit of a breakdown and it got really emotional. So my kind of thing is to like, it's obviously embarrassing to be in that state. So I took myself for a walk and I just really needed to calm myself down.
We do this thing called diffusion. It's something that works sometimes for me where you kind of just sit back and you realize you just can just try and picture your thoughts in a stream on leaves and they kind of just float them away. And that was one thing that really probably brought me back to a little bit. And that's the only time I've ever had to use it, but that's one of the skills my psychologist gave me. So that's a good little tip. I don't know the science or anything behind it, but it worked for me then.
Yeah, just struggling and just implementing just strategies that the psychologists give you and just putting them into practice in your day to day life is just something that they can do. One of the, both my GP and my psychologist recommended me do yoga and now going into a yoga studio as a 32 year old man is very intimidating and I've been meaning to do it for a long time and I finally bit the bullet and did it towards the back end of 2019 and I found that to be very, very beneficial and I've actually really, really enjoyed it and it's something that I'm going to continue on throughout.
I think maybe the rest of my life, the way I think it makes me feel outside of inside that space, it was intimidating at first, but I've got enough confidence in there now to not worry. And that's the whole thing about yoga is you try and leave everything before you walk in and just try and enter your space and try and concentrate on these skills and these shapes and it's something that has resonated with me a great deal. Are you getting, oh it's never, I don't know if we can master it, but are you getting
better at practicing that yoga practice and a lot of things you do in life, whether it's coming to Virtus, whether it's going to a meal with friends, because a lot of times with this kind of stuff we're just never present. So being in the moment a little bit more, that yoga stuff is magnificent for that. I know you do meditation five, 10 minutes a day, that is pure gold. Yeah, I get a lot of that meditation kind of just getting into yoga early and just being on the mat and present and just trying to clear my thoughts before jumping into those kind of things.
And as stupid as it sounds, just lying still and just trying to be with your thoughts or trying to just try and just concentrate on you for that 10 minutes is pretty amazing kind of spot to be in and it doesn't have to be yoga, just whatever works for you, if it's reading a book or if it's going for a walk or just finding something that can just probably ground you. And Wallace puts it like being where your feet are, I think it's really, really important. If it's getting out in nature or doing whatever or
catching up with a mate for a coffee, just finding that something that will balance you and bring you back to like the everyday kind of thing, just being present. Going back to the diagnosis, and I think sometimes it can be a barrier, it can be scary putting a face and a name to the thing. Did you feel as though having the diagnosis helped? I think, as I said before, when I first made the decision to go get help, it was a relief a little bit to put like a label on it and being able to say, yeah, there is something wrong.
And then having the diagnosis, it's something that, yeah, great, I've gone to the doctors and been diagnosed with something, it was a double relief there because then that was the first step in trying to fix it as well. Even though it's something that's, as much as we say it's getting better, there's still a long way to go with this kind of whole kind of space, particularly with males too. I think it's a big thing and not to disparage the females out there, they're probably going through just as much shit as what males do as well, but I think it just doesn't come up in conversation as much as it should, particularly male to male conversation.
It's getting better, but as I said in the post, there's still a long way to go, so then hopefully things like this makes it better for everyone as well. I think conversations like this makes it a lot better, mate, and I think even the listener that might not have a clue who you are, there might be another country just listening to conversations like this, what educates them for one, number two, they're going to go and talk to someone and reach out to someone and just to know that you know what, it's a chemical imbalance and
a lot of other contributing factors, it's let's just simplify life, let's just make it simple, like you said, just be where you are right now, simplify life, it's just simple, let's just not, multitasking's another factor that's probably killing people, apart from the chemical imbalances, people are trying to do too much at once and the overwhelming nature of that is just, it's not going to end well. So it's more and more pressure from society to be doing different things and if we look to what, and still a bit of the resilience project stuff, we look to
people that are doing things and we talk about being busy and that's what we think we have to be to be successful and it doesn't necessarily work like that, like a lot of people fall in the trap of looking at social media and seeing what people are doing and people forget that that's just a highlight reel and they're posting the best of the best in what they do and a lot of people want to be like these people that they follow and these kind of things, it's an unhealthy balance there and I'm probably as addicted to social media as the next person as well but it's about trying to bring yourself back to your reality and understanding what's going on.
Has your definition of success shifted over the last 18 months, I know it's something where you're like right in the depths of it at the moment trying to figure it out? Well probably, I don't know what it is now, it could be a number of things, it's hard to pinpoint what success is right now to me, like I don't know, I've probably reached a bit of a tipping point in my life about what I want to achieve moving forward, I have some goals fitness wise that I would like to tick off and then there's some
goals professionally like I don't know if I want to be a teacher for the rest of my life is something I've been probably struggling with probably for the past 12 to 18 months and then relationship wise like it's getting to the point of time I've been together with Jess for six years and don't get me wrong, I'd love to start a family but and then there's marriage and those kind of things which is all happening, you see all your friends having kids and you just recently did that yourself and you've got one as well, KP
did most of the work so yeah it's getting to that point in my life where I've got to start making some decisions for the future which is interesting, it's exciting at the same time but there's a lot of things that factor in, I've got a mortgage now as well and there's things that are outside of your control a little bit and it just makes it a little bit hard so success to me I guess if you boil it all down we've come back to say being simple, I just want to be happy and moving in a positive direction in my life in those kind of three aspects that I kind of just said.
The last 15 seconds of what you said was fantastic I think, the sport, the professionalism, it's all byproducts mate and the mortgage, honestly let's just really scale it right back to one day at a time, one day at a time, if you can live most of your waking hours in a good spot that's a success, it's just 100%, the other stuff will come, you know you'll run again well, you know you'll do all that stuff, let's just forget about that for now and just keep it real simple because as Lachie reminded the listeners, Pulsi really
courageously is in the midst of it right now, we're not looking back on top of the mountain going do you know what a shit time in my life, he's courageously come on air when he's in the midst of it, which I believe just helps so many more people, so the thing is let's just take it one day at a time, this could be the listeners as well and not worry about the professional, you're very good at what you do, you know that, so again step back and say okay if we look at the little things,
whether it's I'm going to get a walk in with Jess, I'm going to just do something that's going to make me feel good for the day and then the rest will follow as well and look doing those little tools, whether it's you've read them, whether it's been a YouTube psychologist, whether it's your own psychologist, whether you've read a quote from Lachie or read a book from somewhere, something that reminds you about the bigger picture, it's hard but I just think 24 hours is enough to look forward in my opinion right now. You both have similar
ethos or both in your different places there, you facilitate like you tell everyone to make yourself better for tomorrow, I can't remember what the actual words that you use and never can I, nah, I'll do something that's going to make you better tomorrow. And you have a similar philosophy where it's like one step at a time kind of thing, consistency you and me harp on so you're a big quote fan, yeah it does, sometimes it's a little better to travel than it is to arrive, so it is a big journey and I had a psychologist
appointment this morning and I had a bit of a moment on Monday and I get caught in a bit of a struggle with particularly being on school holidays as a teacher and Rick you mentioned this before is that I battle a little bit because you set yourself with these grand intentions and what you're going to achieve and I slept in till 11 o'clock, didn't go to the gym, spent the day on my ass watching bloody shit TV on the couch and felt horrible about myself but I dragged myself here and really struggled, was gassed halfway
through the session and had to modify it to get through it and I just felt horrible even driving home and it was just a simple conversation with Jess that probably snapped me out of that loop and that's what everything leading up until this point, all those kind of, the medication, the tools that the psychologist and the doctor have given me, what I've learnt through yoga and those kind of things and being more open and honest with people that support me and surround me is I was able to bounce out of that negative thought loop quite
quickly which is something that I used to spiral down for ages, it could be days, hours, even a week at a time and I'd just be like nah, I'm just going to close myself off to everyone and not want to do it and this was before the diagnosis but it's just the tools and being able to snap yourself out of it or do something that bounces you back up quite quickly. Talk a little bit more about your support networks, Jess, the girls at work, your staff, you've effectively recruited and already had recruited many many people onto your team to help you work through this.
Yeah so I feel sorry for Jess because and I think with depression is that when you're in the midst of it you're kind of most horrible to the people that support you the most and Jess would have copped a fair profit when I was probably at my worst and the people that you love you tend to push away or you're more horrible to and just it's really really hard looking back at where I was to where I was now and there would have been some times where she would have been pulling her hair out with
me because it made her life a little bit difficult as well and there were some social anxieties there where I wanted to stop going to places and those kind of things too so it would have made her life easy as well so she's been an amazing support and without her I don't know if I would have ever gone and seen someone I could have been still stuck in the cycle where I was back then. You guys have been a great help in terms of just talking through it and just telling you where I'm at and
you guys have both been very accepting and listening to me to try and describe the way I was feeling and just have an outlet there to obviously go train with you Rick at Rudders and come in and do that and you same here Wallace as well. I've got a couple of close friends that have been really good with it, Miles who Rick would know but Wallace hasn't had the pleasure of meeting has been brilliant he's the most caring man I've ever met he's a bit of a degenerate in terms of the way he probably portrays
himself and portrays himself to other people but he's one of the most loyal and best best people that I've come across so kudos to him and my close group of mates that I've discussed with both you boys on your separate podcast where we've kind of been together for a long time have been really really helpful as well and there's a few girls at work that I've had these open and honest conversations with and they've branched out to some other people at work as well so there's been a big support cast and a lady at work
who runs the daily org so she's in control of a lot of things she's been really really supportive of me and even my principal allowing me to go to my psychologist appointments like knocking off work a little bit early and being real supportive at the time I had a way and checking in on me and those kind of things has been really really great. The takeaway I get from that is just it takes so many people to help oh yeah and no doubt that you're there for all those people oh absolutely and I think a
big part of my personality is I would put myself before others so a big part of my psychology appointments have been trying to make sure I put my kind of self at the forefront on occasions and it's hard to it's hard to remove yourself from that because you've built up all these habits and ingrained in yourself that take a while you've got to break them down essentially and relearn a lot of the things that they feel and that's going to take a long time if not and to be honest like you don't know like I'm
a realist like I could have to deal with this for the rest of my life I don't know if I'm even gonna have to stop those have those thoughts or those spirals down but I think if we're happy all the time then that's that wouldn't be such a great area to be in as well that's that last bit that Pulsi said we don't ever we don't we don't think that far ahead number one number two look there's there's a chance that you will have thoughts yeah it's normal and but the way you're dealing with it
already is so much different so your spirals aren't seven eight days anymore your spirals might be seven eight hours and that's the biggest difference with reaching out and finding help I think like you said you've got 12 or 15 people that he's got but if you're a listener that you might be a bit like reclusive or whatever that may be there is always someone to reach out to perfect the GP who's number 100% so don't feel like oh you got you got people I promise you you got a second or third cousin that will know
how to help you and no one is going to ever ever judge number one and they're certainly you're not going to burden them but they will be more than happy to open up their heart and their arms and listen first and then help you hopefully find the right direction but I think the biggest thing from the last 10 minutes especially his policies the way he's been I guess enabled by their specialist and to be able to find ways out of different spires and and intrusive thoughts and feelings I think too if the shoes on the
other foot if you are worried about someone beyond blue and those kind of resources are a big tool I know Jess has rang them a couple of times to just to see how she can help with the situation as well and she said that they were brilliant so if you are worried about someone and you want some information about how to help them to give them a call when there's plenty of stuff available on the internet or and if it can be hard for the people that if you're worried about someone it can be hard
if it's a if it's a loved one or if it's a good friend or if it's someone that you work with and these kind of things it's hard to and it's hard to see that happen and being able to do that one of the girls that I work with Tanya she has a husband in a similar situation so she's been a valuable kind of resource in managing and just checking in on me because she understands because she's dealing it with a day-to-day basis kind of thing so she's been a good a good resource as well
it's a great tip very very yeah so yeah if your shoes the shoes it's not always just you that you're worried about or it could be someone else that you're directly worried about give them a call as well and they'll be on the links they'll be on the links to yeah this is furthest podcast and then when we when we check it around as well because they even if it's stirred up any triggers make sure you click on those and give someone a buzz because the amount of beautiful people out there they're willing to listen
and help it doesn't have to be face to face like I had a lot of my probably original conversations via text message or messenger particularly male-to-male conversations you know they're not going to come up where you can have those kind of style conversations so I think if you're open and honest and people ask how you are and I got to the point where I kind of just said well I don't want to hide it anymore I said I just kind of say yeah I've been going okay this is what I'm dealing with at the moment
and then if it does happen to come up in conversation in a social setting I'm more than happy to talk about it as well now so the biggest thing I think I'm finishing is nothing changes impulses conversations or nothing changes in relationships nothing changes nothing you just got to you can still talk about the same old shit you speak about the banter the sport whatever else it's just that if it comes up in conversation it comes up in conversation nothing changes and that's the biggest thing I think we're gonna get through to males especially is
just making sure it's not a weakness or anything it's the opposite it's the total opposite of weakness it's having the courage to talk about something that so many males for 200 years have it yeah so it's total it's the opposite of weakness it's pure courage really and also helping like who knows in these kind of forums yeah possibly tens of thousands of people literally over the years just listen to these kind of stuff any any more regular lucky moving forward I think for all of us just be open be honest yeah that's a big thing
on those conversations chat to your GP like we've got we fortunately live in a country where I have access to all of this healthcare universal healthcare let's use it I'm going to get my eyes checked so you know Wallace might have some reading glasses next time next time you see me you don't look very academic already so imagine imagine there's only two hours on a two hours on a Saturday where you don't look academic I reckon he's an academic for 166 hours of the week I think it's just look at look after the big rocks
first you sleep yeah your food your exercise movement we didn't come to sleep did we so do you want to touch on how that's grown at the moment I'm going to go soon yeah sleep for me I guess when you're kind of when you I think it all kind of stems from my endurance training is that sleep kind of takes it it shouldn't but context of backward sleep when you're trying to fiddle your sessions in be a functioning member of society and doing your job properly like you get you're not getting as much sleep as
you should and I think that developed some bad patterns in me and I really struggled to sleep for a little while and one positive aspect of me taking medication is it really really allowed me to sleep better and we talk about sleep hygiene and being important screen time and then there's things that I implement that try to make me a better sleeper I'm in a bad cycle at the moment being on holidays because you tend to stay up a bit later and sleep in a little bit more so I'm actually looking forward and I tried
to you try and I'm trying to break it at the moment which is tough because you just end up sleeping in the afternoon a little bit and which youtube boys probably are strong advocates for anyway if you've got the ability to do it then yeah to do it so sleep's really really important I place a greater emphasis on sleep now than what I had probably previously yeah I think we need to cover that because it's I think it doesn't matter where you're at it's underrated oh it's the most done and in terms of in the
boys both known from what a performance and recovery and we're not yeah we're not but see all professional athletes they'll have all their sleep tracked and run over there's studies out there five sleeps a day I think yes Christiana and I literally five naps a day for 20 minutes but it's in the endurance world there's they train in the morning go home have a nap and then they go to sleep again and train again and there's studies and scientific studies out there that show that sleep aids performance so I think it's a big one nutrition
is probably a big thing as well just make sure you're on top of it and a lot of mine stems from the way I feel about myself so if I'm eating good food I'm exercising I'm doing all those things that we've talked about previously I'm putting myself I'm giving myself my best opportunity to have a good day now if I don't do those things if I don't sleep if I don't exercise I don't eat well I start to feel shit about myself and then that can if I you know if that loops into the next
day or stuff like that it it makes it I know I'm gonna have a down patch at some point so it's about putting my best foot forward to making sure I achieve those things that I can do well and if I do that it's going to give my me my best opportunity to to have a have a good day I always love the mantra of just everything you do every decision you make will either take you closer or further away from the person you want to be and every decision yeah so I think it is
your thing I think it's a I think it's really important that as well if you put a checklist in place in a 24-hour period and look even if you do laps which is human you're gonna lapse right we're not being too hard on ourself we're not we're not throwing the baby out of the bath water we just get straight back on the next day's checklist so whether that's for pulsing obviously nutritious wholesome foods he got seven and a half hours sleep he meditated for five minutes that morning he's moved for 20 30 minutes he's done
all these things he's had a he hasn't had any lapses he's been good but if he has a lapse like he goes and eats some rubbish or he's down on himself it's going to happen that's normal human behavior so we don't just throw the list out we start again the next day enjoy the rubbish and then make 100% yeah well kubu obviously everyone knows on this podcast he has his minimums every day and he ticks them off as he does that's great can you explain that for us he has he does a journal like you
do every day but on the left hand side of his page he sets his intention and what i think is his goals every day or something like that and then he has eight to ten minimums i think he's dropped it down a little bit yeah so he's just got his basic eight things he wants to hit and like if he hits that he's one yeah so one of them's like drink more than three liters of water simple stuff but one of them's read for half an hour i think for stuff like that too and that's
what he and i don't go to that kind and everyone's going to be different i don't go to that extent but five minutes yeah five minutes yeah whatever whatever it is for you if you know there's certain things you need to be doing you just check them off in your head but mentally or whatever there's a lot of great things with um tracking diaries and journals these days the resilience project do a great job and giving you a resource available to you that does a lot of the hard work for you it's all there ready
for you and gratitude and these kind of things too something very very very important the more we do it like even if if it compounds over six months 12 months you'll look back on 2020 if you listen to this show yeah and you'll go wow like little little gains but massive results by christmas even if you uh the machines project boys are just saying just what are three things you're grateful for that day well what are you looking forward to today and it's simple simple things like that that can all the studies out there that
show and they're another invaluable resource um their website and if you've got an opportunity to go see either hugh or martin talk um i'd highly recommend it they're doing some brilliant stuff in in that kind of space um he just released a book i haven't quite started it yet um i'd recommend it though without even reading it so i'll finish it it's a crater yeah absolutely yes i smashed it it is uh one of the they've got a podcast out one of the great books the results project um the imperfects and hugh goes around and
interviews some celebrities that are similar to this and they talk about their journey and how they're feeling and uh hugh interjects with some words of wisdom throughout that and he's very good talker and he's on top of all this kind of stuff so um yeah i'd recommend that one as well good i'm gonna i'm gonna jim carrey quote to finish off this is one of my favorites joker in the worst batman of all time i believe depression is legitimate but i also believe that if you don't exercise eat nutritious foods get sunlight get enough sleep
consume positive material and surround yourself with support and you aren't giving yourself a fighting chance i think that just summated what i just said exactly spot on good from you lads well done good chat yeah thanks for having me in again boys policy again thank you for being the person that you are yeah really appreciate that mate um the listeners i think need to go over that probably three or four times because you can do it on your run you drive anything because that was some gold content and he's opened up his heart and soul
so thanks for pulsing
